D. Farrar: Not all one party's lies

In response to Marc Jalbert's letter (Sept. 10), "Republicans blatantly lying," maybe the headline should have read "Politicians blatantly lying."

How can he legitimately single out one party for the charge when we all know that both parties skew numbers to make their arguments — whether it be unemployment numbers, cost of programs, what their school grades were, who they hung out with, who their favorite sports teams are, etc.

As for the "helpful media," I think most people can agree that the majority of mainstream media protect the current administration and his party.

With regard to the mainstream media, how much investigation has been put into Fast and Furious and why Barack Obama refuses any further cooperation, Obama's associations in his early career, his ties to the housing collapse, Wassermann-Schulz's caught-in-the-act lie to discredit the opposition, the clearly botched vote at the Democratic National Convention and numerous other examples.

Wouldn't it be better to have a helpful media that would expose both sides' inaccuracies? Or would that simply not give people the MSNBC Chris Matthews' style "tingle up your leg"?

Let's ask for exposure of all the politicians who feel the need to tweak the facts. All of them — Democrats, Republicans and otherwise. Not be thankful that the media "are really making us aware" of only one party's lies, as is the general case, and as Jalbert stated himself.

Dale Farrar, Livermore Falls

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Comments

Steve  Dosh's picture

Not all one party's lies

all, flyday 13:30 hst ?
. .i know lawyers who lie out of both sides of their mouth , too

Q: How does a lawyer sleep ?
A: First (s)he lies on one side, then the other . ....

A: What do you throw to a drowning lawyer ?
A: His ( or her ) partners ¿

Q: If you saw a lawyer drowning - right there - in Casco Bay would you ,
a ) Continue reading this fine newpaper , or ,
b ) Go to lunch ?

A: _______________________ <- ?

h t h ? /s, Steve

CLAIRE GAMACHE's picture

The difference

First of all there is no such thing as a blanket college education. You can learn a lot of things in college and most of them have nothing to do with political ideology. The one thing a college education teaches you is that you still have a lot to learn. The more you learn the more aware you become of the vast store of knowledge that lies beyond. It causes you to think outside the box and to question notions that have long been held sacred because you become aware of how many times ignorance has held sway over truth in the past. Lack of education, on the contrary, usually results in absolute certainty oftentimes on the basis of anecdotal experience, or cultish loyalty, or just being too lazy to question and think. Both educated and uneducated people can be wrong but educated people tend to search for truth rather than accept what is presented to them. So media, whose job it is to seek out the truth are more likely to reject pat answers and traditional beliefs. That is what makes them liberal, unless of course someone is paying them to mouth politicial bias.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Here is another way to view

Here is another way to view this:

If your birth sex is driven from biology, if your sexual orientation is driven from biology, if your sexual attraction is driven from biology, and if the manner in which you process information is driven from biology, why can’t your tendency to be conservative or democrat also be rooted in biology?

Steve  Dosh's picture

Mark , . .l o l . .Yeah ? 

Mark ,
. .l o l . .Yeah ?  Especially if you are a rat , slime , or some other pusillanimous creature •
Just a joke ! j / k , j \ k . Nature or nurture . .Warriors or worriers . . /s Steve

MARK GRAVEL's picture

So what you are saying is

So what you are saying is that someone in the media, once they found the “truth”, stop reporting both views on a issue and start reporting only one side?

What happened to the days when both views are reported and examined? How can not reporting both sides of a story constitute seeking the truth? If one seeks the truth, should they have examined both sides of an issue; therefore the data should be readily available to report both sides?

I smell fish from the pie hole.

 's picture

Republican spin isn't spin

"all know that both parties skew numbers to make their arguments." That's not lying. Spin is telling a partial truth to create a false impression and both parties are very adept at doing that. It does not establish that both parties lie by listing a series of purely partisan Republican talking-points as if they were facts. In fact, they are the basis for the Republican lie machine.
Non-partisan fact-checkers have rated Paul Ryan's Convention speech a pants-on-fire lie from beginning to end. The company in Wisconsin that closed, closed during the Bush administration; all that help that Paul Ryan gave it never happenned. The Ryan budget does not balance the butget for another 30 years. Rape is not "just another form of conception". Obama did not steal $716 billion from Medicare. Romney/Ryan will not talk about, well everything because when ever they do talk they make fools of themselves, undermine and embarass the country, or demonstrate that they are totally incompetent in addition to being liars.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Isn’t that called a white

Isn’t that called a white lie, which is still a lie?

Oh I get it. That becomes okay when you team does it. That is just typical hypocrisy.

So what did happen to that $716 billion that the ACA cut from Medicare?

 's picture

Its wholely different by degree and nature

Spin, the current political term for a little white lie or marketing by corporate America, is wholely different from intentional lying by degree and nature. Perfect example being the $716 Billion the ACA saved in Medicare. The Republican lie machine has described it as "stolen, cut, eliminated". None being true. The ACA after negiotiations saved $716 billion in spending that the recipients (providers drug companies, hospital, doctors) agreed were unneeded and wasteful. Those saving were then used to eliminate the "donut-hole" in Medicare Part D. So the money was moved within medicare from programs that didn't need it to programs that did. "Stolen" (currently being used in a number of Republican campaigns including in NH) is a lie. Spin is telling a truth that misrepresents the situation. Very different.
Or try Romney's statement of a few days ago that Obama issued a statement that apologized for America and sympathized with terrorists that attacked the US consulate in Libya. Romney's statement was completely false. Not a grain of truth in it. Obama did not issue the statement; the consulate did. The statement did not in any way apologize for America; it called for religious tolerance which, outside the Republican Party, is a long standing traditional American value and did so 6 hours before the consulate was attacked. Obama who has ordered the deaths of more terrorists leaders than any republican has never and will never "sympathize with terrorists". Romney's statement was false, a lie, he knew at the time he issued it that it was a lie and he made the statement deliberately. His was a despicable act without parallel in US history. To attack the staff of the US consulate at the same moment Islamic terrorists are shooting RPG rockets into the compound is the most irresponsible act by an American political figure since at least the Civil War.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

And that is your view of the

And that is your view of the "spin". We can go tit for tat all day, but I’m not blind to the lies from both parties. For example, Obama counted your $716 as funding for ACA as well as debt reduction. Isn’t that double counting? Need to be fair and balanced!

 's picture

You keep changin the subject

You know you are wrong, like Romney won't admit it, so you change the subject from lying to double counting. There is no tit-for-tat going on here. There is no equivalency. Romney has carried out a racist, xenophobic campaign based on lies, misrepresentations, and voter suppression and failed to get the support he needs to be elected President so in his desperation he's taken the next step and betrayed Americans serving overseas in hopes of persnal political gain. No candidate for President has ever committed such a brazen act against the interests of his country. He has surrendered the right to be President.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

BTW, throwing down the race

BTW, throwing down the race card is a typical democratic attack move. What, you disagree-there take that as the race card is thrown. That tactic is getting old, don’t you think? It reminds me of the boy who cried wolf.

 's picture

Dismissing race is typical Republican propaganda

31 states controlled by Republican Legislatures have passed voter-suppression legislation that will deny more legaly entittled minorities the opportunity to vote then any legislation back to Jim Crow days. In Pa. voter with legal picture ID's can be denied the vote if their ID says they live at 1 My Steet Home Rd and their registation says they live at 1 My Street home Road. The law says "any difference" in address. 1 Million Republican thugs are being recruited to intimidate voters at primarily minority voting places. The Romney campaign has admitted that it is seeking to win the white male vote and has given up on minorities and women. The Romney campaign has constrantly used "culture", welfare lies, and Birtherism to identify Obama as non-white in attitudes and goals. Who is playing the race card?
Reminds me a lot of Strom Thurman and Bull Connors.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Now I cannot speak for all 31

Now I cannot speak for all 31 states, but the ones I’m familiar with that have passed voter ID allow conditional ballots to be cast if there is a discrepancy on the voting rolls or someone shows up at the wrong polling location. I would give you the list of states, but I cannot recall them now, and I’m on the road -that is what it is; I apologize for that.

The takeaway is that you are misinformed at best or misrepresenting the facts at worse.

 's picture

Don't apologize, I couldn't name them all either

But. Conditional ballots don't get counted. The experience in Florida in 2000 is instructive. No conditional ballots were accepted. I had an aquaintance who was legally allow to vote a conditional ballot (his name was on the felons list and they only went by names) but was denied by the ballot clerks and eventually with his lawyer forced out of the polling place by Florida State Police. He was never able to vote, but had he his vote would not have counted anyway.
So HAVA tried to chang that - " HAVA defines provisional ballots broadly and lays out a detailed process for their application. The law names four specific circumstances triggering the provisional ballot process:(1) when a voter’s name does not appear on the registration list for the polling place, (2) when a voter’s eligibility is challenged by an election official, (3) when a voter lacks the required identification, and (4) when a voter votes after the polling place has closed. All states will either have to revise existing procedures or create new ones to meet the new requirements." Still conditional ballots are only counted if they "make a difference" in the election. In other words in the judgemnt of the election officials. In 31 states they are all Republicans. Conditional ballots are no protection. In Kansas they are trying to take Obama of the ballot before the election.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

"Still conditional ballots

"Still conditional ballots are only counted if they "make a difference" in the election."

That is sufficient; if the total amount of conditional ballots is less than the point spread between two candidates, then there is no need to count them. The argument sounds reasonable. Otherwise it is a waste of money.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

I’m just giving you a tit for

I’m just giving you a tit for your tat, which is staying on topic. Double counting money means Obama lied on one of two assertions – ACA will cost X or I will reduce the deficit by Y.

Now the you have to resort to pulling the racist card, you reveal your desperation to demonize Romney; pitiful in my opinion.

It is okay to not like Romney without calling him a racist, but I guess that gives you justification doesn't it.

 's picture

It's just that...

...Republicans do it so well - and so often.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Well perhaps the Democrats do

Well perhaps the Democrats do it better from the looks of it; it seem of hooked you.

 's picture

So I guess...

...you're saying I'm ignorant and unable to think for myself.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Well Bob, is that glass

Well Bob, is that glass slipper too big, too small, or just right? Only you can tell.

 's picture

No...

You're the one judging me.

MARC A JALBERT's picture

Mr. Farrar, please

I wasn’t trying to say that only the Republicans are lying, I was trying to make people aware that they were adamantly blatant about it, and have absolutely no shame about it. I am sure you will say that it’s the same on both sides. I thing the Republicans have a handle on just plain lying and insist on doing it. I will admit to you that I watch and listen to MSNBC primarily because they just don’t tell you what is happening they tell you what is right and what is wrong about what is going on. Mainstream media doesn’t do that. They simply report what was said, period. And allow me to elaborate again regarding my sincere fears of what the Republicans are not telling us. I sincerely believe we are all in serious trouble if they get in this time. I cannot trust anything Romney or Ryan say. Just listen to the many times they get caught in a lie and come up with the most outlandish explanations???

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Really, this sort of

Really, this sort of deception is dealt on both sides. The American people actually got a glimpse a few times when Obama thought his microphone was off. We capture a real dose of what Obama was not telling us.

Since both R and D behave similarly, perhaps we should explore the real source of your fear. What do you think you would lose under a Romney administration – be honest now.

Jason Theriault's picture

The real issue

Isn't that one network is biased or not. I will concede that main stream media has a SLIGHT liberal bias. The reason being that journalists generally are college educated, and that college educated people tend to lean to the democratic side of issues. Also the areas that are major hubs for the news are generally in blue states like New York and Los Angeles

The problem is that Fox overcompensates. While other networks make an effort to limit their bias, Fox embraces it.


This data is old, but I don't think it has changed since 2009.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

So are you implying that not

So are you implying that not as many conservatives are college educated just because they are conservative? That sounds educated! Or does it start earlier than college? Therefore one’s propensity to be conservative or liberal influences conservatives to other disciplines like math, science, and finance and influence liberals to more of the arts side of things like media?

Here is an interesting article about education and political affiliation.
http://reflectionsofarationalrepublican.com/2012/01/14/are-liberals-more...

Data shows that undereducated and overeducated academics, like Obama, tend to be liberal. Middle America, perhaps the most pragmatic of the set, tends to be conservative; The controllers and the controlees.

Read it and let’s hear you spin or white lies, which ever term you prefer.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Boy, the crickets are really

Boy, the crickets are really chirping tonight.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Crickets continue to chirp.

Crickets continue to chirp.

 's picture

Bewildered

"The reason being that journalists generally are college educated, and that college educated people tend to lean to the democratic..." Are you saying that ignorant, uneducated people who don't believe in science, critical thinking, or reason are more easily deceived by the Conservative propaganda machine? I would have never guessed.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Perhaps you need to read the

Perhaps you need to read the study referenced in my previous post. It is actually the opposite from what you say. It is in the report. I once read that democrats seek the truth, so I'm sure you'll read it.

Jason Theriault's picture

No, I wouldn't say that.

First off, lets draw a distinction between "educated" and "smart". I'm not saying republicans are not smart or wise or any such disparaging comments. It could be numerous reasons, but the popular logic(which could be wrong) has been that college make people more liberal.

I was just pointing out some of the things that may have played a part in a bias.

Joe Morin's picture

You should read...

'Left Turn' by Dr. Tim Groseclose.
"Dr. Tim Groseclose is the Marvin Hoffenberg Professor of American Politics at UCLA. He has joint appointments in the political science and economics departments. He has held previous faculty appointments at Caltech, Stanford University, Ohio State University, Harvard University, and Carnegie Mellon University.

In 1987 Groseclose received his B.S. degree in Mathematical and Computational Sciences from Stanford University. In 1992 he received his PhD from the Stanford Graduate School of Business (specializing in the School’s Political Economics program)."

This guy disagrees with you. He does not have polls, he uses empirical scientific data.

Jason Theriault's picture

ok....

Just read the synopsis.

Umm, you do realize that any measurement of "slant" is applying a quantitative measure to a qualitative quality? To imply that any of this is fact is misleading because liberal or conservative all depends on your perspective. If you are far left or right, people in the middle appear biased because you will consider yourself the middle. No one thinks "Yup, I'm an extremists".

Facts are proveable. Devloping your own system to measure slant does not make your measurements facts.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Jason, That is called a

Jason,

That is called a hypothesis. It is up to you to show evidence that disproves a hypothesis. Your opinion is not proof.

Joe Morin's picture

Well...

Let's state a middle with a +/- bias factor within reason and rank everything relative to that center bubble. Then you can measure from the center out in either direction. Measure from the center of the bubble or the closest edge doesen't matter.You can still quantify a relative distance. Jeez, I'm not even PHD in mathematics! Furthermore, why would a gentleman of his tenure even attempt something so futile? Because obviously he didn't speak to J.T.
p.s.
Fiscal conservatives know they are on the right. The only ones that I hear claiming to be moderates that aren't, are self-denying liberals such as.......................drum roll please............................yourself!

Joe Morin's picture

P.S.

...& the media

 's picture

Educated?

Journalists generally are college indoctrinated, and college indoctrinated people tend to lean to the liberal side of issues, because they're not shown other points of view and are discouraged from even contemplating them. If they secretly harbor other viewpoints, those journalists know they will never get a job with a "major" news organization if they dare to express those viewpoints.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Good letter.

Good letter.

Steve  Dosh's picture

Mark, . . It certainly

Mark, . .
It certainly engendered a lot of interesting responses
Now to that O T H E R paper :)
http://www.twincitytimes.com
^^ not an endorsement L S J ® readers ^^
/s Steve

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