Gun tragedies always good for NRA's business

The cynical genius of the National Rifle Association is its creation of a perpetual motion money machine.

In the aftermath of 27 deaths in Newtown, Conn., you might think gun buyers would be having second thoughts about the wisdom and safety of buying automatic weapons.

After all, the guns used to kill 20 six- and seven-year-old children, their teachers, principal and child psychologist were purchased by the young killer's mother. She then became the deranged young man's first victim, suffering multiple gunshot wounds to the head.

Reasonable people might conclude that these weapons are extremely dangerous in the home, even to the people who buy them.

Buyers might also be concerned about their community. There would be the constant worry the gun might be used by a family member to commit suicide, homicide or even a horrific mass slaying.

Reasonable people might see the slaying of several dozen children and educators as a reasonable reason not to buy such weapons.

Yet, when it comes to guns, this is not a reasonable nation. As they always do, gun sales will surge in the aftermath of this tragic event.

Some gun buyers will have heard President Barack Obama say government must do something to make our country safer from people intent on killing innocent people.

Even though he didn't say anything about guns or gun control, just the mention of doing "something" will kick off renewed fear of gun control.

Gun sales will also surge this week because people will fear for their own safety. You see, there is so much gun violence in America that more people will believe they need more guns, and more high-powered guns, to protect themselves.

This, despite evidence that guns are involved in way more suicides and domestic violence homicides than are fired for self defense.

Financially, gun violence and the perpetual fear of gun control are what keeps the NRA and its gun-making patrons in the money.

In 2011, the NRA listed $24 million in cash on hand and paid its director, Wayne LaPierre, $970,000.

Meanwhile, many gun dealers cannot even keep up with demand, even as they raise prices to exorbitant levels.

Together, Ruger and Smith & Wesson control nearly 30 percent of the U.S. handgun industry and their factories were running at full tilt even before this latest mass shooting.

Ruger had to stop taking orders for a couple of months this year when sales outpaced production.

Its sales have increased 86 percent since Barack Obama became president, while S&W's sales have jumped 44 percent.

"Wouldn't you want to be in a business where customers are just begging to hand you money?" a Nashville gun dealer asked the Associated Press in October.

So, even as we recoil with horror at the slayings of children, the NRA and other gun organizations are quietly mobilizing to continue putting military-style weapons in the hands of ordinary people.

The conversation will, unfortunately, be short lived. As we have done before, people will go back to their lives and Congress will soon go back to wringing its hands over something else when its members think about the implications of offending the gun lobby.

And the NRA will go back to its primary purpose, making money for itself and its inner ring of gun makers.

rrhoades@sunjournal.com

The opinions expressed in this column reflect the views of the ownership and the editorial board.

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Comments

RONALD RIML's picture

"Got Guns, Inc"

A joint venture of the National Rifle and National Funeral Directors Associations

Steve  Dosh's picture

Ron, 12.26.12 19:00 hst ? "

Ron, 12.26.12 19:00 hst ?
" Happiness is a warm gun ." - The Beatles
*<;-Q~

JOANNE MOORE's picture

To the editorial board.......

Please dig a little deeper. Ask questions. Where does the NRA get its money? Who are the people/organizations behind the NRA that give it power.

What are the ties of the NRA to ALEC? And if you have never heard of ALEC you are in the wrong business.

What are the ties of the NRA to the Koch brothers? Ever heard of them?

What we as a nation are facing is tyranny by a bunch of well-armed thugs who care nothing about our Constitution, but quote the Second Amendment as a cover up.

If I can Google the ties of the NRA to ALEC, surely people whose job it is to uncover the truth can.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

And on Christmas Eve we hear of two more deaths.......

More anguish and heartbreak for more families as two firemen, responding to a fire were gunned down and two more critically wounded. Merry Christmas all you knuckle dragging, gun obsessed, psycopaths. Hope you sleep well tonight all cuddled up with your guns tightly gripped in your blood-soaked hands.

RONALD RIML's picture

Why sleep with 'Guns?'

They don't complain of headaches......

MARK GRAVEL's picture

It is very simple - the

It is very simple - the people give the NRA credibility and money because we don't want Washington's solutions.

Perhaps you should criticize the editorial board's persistent confusion between an automatic and semi-automatic weapon, a simple concept that many cannot seem to grasp.

RONALD RIML's picture

Mark Gravel says I give the NRA Credibility.......

AL PELLETIER's picture

Holy Smoke Mark

You take a great picture, where's your AR-15?

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Firstly, that picture is

Firstly, that picture is borderline obscene, you should ask SJ staff to remove it if you are thinking on an average intelligence level.

Secondly, it will be a mistake on your part to mischaracterized the demographic majority that comprise the NRA and the average gun owner. But then, that is an exploitable weakness.

AL PELLETIER's picture

Borderline obscene?

What the hell kind of picture do you think will be permanently embedded in the minds of those first responders at the Sandy Hook School ? You like to argue just for the sake of argument even if it doesn't make sense.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

What is really obscene is........

armed insurection against our government and we the people. Actually I think this picture just about typifies the average knuckle dragger, tea bagger, terrorist gun hoarder.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

I think your statement is a

I think your statement is a teaching moment to illustrate irrational and emotion thought. There is no organized effort to overthrough our form of government. Do you also see black helicopters flying overhead?

JOANNE MOORE's picture

'the people"

not the majority of the people. "We don't want Washington's solutions". So what are you going to do? Shoot them?

I'd say a bunch of lunatics with obsessive paranoia are the confused ones.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

First, this is the opinion

First, this is the opinion section of SJ's web-site, is it not?

Second, if you post a comment that someone, say like myself, that does not agree with, is not cogent, or is based solely on emotion, do we not have the right not to say so?

Third, if you only want to people to agree with you, perhaps this is not the proper venue.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

Logisticly speaking.....

Here's an idea that may help solve the problem. heavily reduce the flow of ammunition. Let's face it without ammunition all the guns don't go boom any more.
People or criminals will buy or steal a gun, then use that gun, trade it or hide it for use later. That one gun will need ammunition over and over again. If ammunition was made harder to get, If it was illegal to mail or ship the ammunition via parcel post, acquiring ammunition via the internet would dry up. Make the distribution of ammunition and black powder more regulated. I wouldn't mind having to show my ID, and have it recorded when purchasing my ammunition. If I had other than legal ideas, I might have second thoughts. Wouldn't tracking and recording the sales of ammunition make it easier to control?
Just another idea to throw into the mix......

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Einstein, What makes you

Einstein,

What makes you think that a criminal will not resort to acquiring ammunition the same way they acquire the controlled weapon?

Sounds easy

The NRA would never allow that. Too intrusive.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

The NRA has a face, and it is

The NRA has a face, and it is we. We the people will not allow it.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

Bollocks!

Don't include me in your fetish.

Jim Cyr's picture

Fetish just

does not seem to go with Constitutional Rights ! Just like Freedom of Religion as well as Freedom from Religion. Your Right !!!! Just don't take mine away from me.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Liberalism and liberal dogma

Liberalism and liberal dogma is based on emotion, not logic,so it's easy rationalize that your right is worthless.

AL PELLETIER's picture

Hey Frank

Thanks for being pro-active on this issue. Good point, if you take away the gas, the car won't run!

AL PELLETIER's picture

Crickets.

#1 All assault weapons are military and law enforcement tools and not weapons that should be readily available to the general public.

#2 All guns bought and sold in any manor must be federally reported as a matter of legal and verifiable transfer of a dangerous weapon. Violations, fines and jail.

#3 All guns sold in any legal way carry a very high excise tax to subsidize hiring and training mental health professionals to intercept unstable young people before they carry out their video game fantasies.

#4 Video games of any kind designed for kids should be viewed by mental health professionals for any suggestions of triggering dangerous and disruptive behavior.

#5 Any person selling or transferring ownership of a fire arm without it being legally recorded will be an accessory to a crime if that weapon is used in a crime.

#6 Any owner of a firearm who does not secure that firearm so it cannot be used by another will be equally responsible if a crime is committed with that firearm .

These ideas do not step on the Second Amendment. Hopefully they may save many lives. Please join in with yours.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

And none of those ideas would

And none of those ideas would have prevented any of the mass murders over the last two years.

AL PELLETIER's picture

OK Mr. F-----g gloom and doom!

Any ideas or are you just full of crickets and BS as usual?

MARK GRAVEL's picture

But no cogent response to my

But no cogent response to my statement execpt an emotional rant. God bless your husband.

Very well thought out ...... however

#1- Gun advocates stress that the majority are just rifles made to appear like an a so-called assault rifle. Hopefully the Senator's bill, from CA, will address that. However, they're already been sold! Too late unless it's grandfathered but it wouldn't even matter. They're out there now, after a background check, in the hands of God knows who!
#2- Great idea. However the NRA/gun advocates will scream at this as it means registration. They immediately go into paranoia.
#3- Another great idea. However the NRA/gun advocates will scream again. It would unduly put a burden on "their" right to acquire a weapon as being too costly.
#4- Great idea but should go even further. Classify them in the category of obscene?
#5- Great idea. However again, this leads to gun registration and it would mean taking a gun from their cold dead hands!
#6- Great idea and this is probably already in place to some degree? However, here I go again, most advocates of guns want their weapon easily accessible in case an event happens. "They" do want to waste any time.

I hate to be a bearer of lousy feelings but time has shown me that the gun debate has hardly ever been done with common sense. It can't until the 2nd amendment is modified and brought to reasonable restrictions. The NRA can not/will not allow that to happen. They have been left to run unabated for years loosening laws and restrictions. Your suggestions are great and maybe some of them can be met, hopefully all. It would take an uprising and, as I'm seeing in the news today, that just might be happening???? I pray.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Don,t forget the face of the

Don,t forget the face of the NRA is us, and We will not let it happen.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

Ha!

sez who and who's army?

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Like it or not, guns are part

Like it or not, guns are part of our culture. Just look at the number of guns owned in the US to see how we are.

RONALD RIML's picture

Slavery alo used to be part of the Culture - and Economy

When one has been so smitten by an object it becomes one's culture - it is then ones' fetich

MARK GRAVEL's picture

I think it is foolish to

I think it is foolish to point at a few nut jobs and characterize that as the norm, don't you?

RONALD RIML's picture

Hi Norm.....

Your brother Mark posts here all the time.

AL PELLETIER's picture

So many comments, so few ideas.

Today President Obama formed a special task force headed by VP Joe Biden to come up with a viable plan to help stop these horrible massacres.
Today a former US Marine put his old uniform on and stood guard at the front door of an elementary school.
These are the kind of pro-active acts our country needs. Slamming each other in this forum accomplishes nothing, except soothing egos.
I've thrown out four ideas to deal with this national problem and the responses range from "Guns don't kill people, people kill people", " That won't work, if some nut wants to kill a bunch of kids he'll find a way" and on and on.
I guess a whole lot of you folks prefer shooting down ideas then coming up with them.
When this happens in Maine (and it will) I sure hope it's not one of my grand kids or yours.

Welcome to the gun "debates" better known as arguing.

You spoke very well. Hard to find anyone willing to discuss solving anything. Always the same old rhetoric. Venting is more of the norm anywhere on line. Go to the major news site and see what it's really like. This is the "gun" world, not very pretty place.

 's picture

White House, Capitol Bldg, SCOTUS Bldg.

Are these "gun free zones"? Nope. Their security people are packin' serious heat, and it's no secret. When's the last time there was a massacre-by-gun at one of those august places?

For some reason, a public school that is a GFZ feels it has to advertise that fact, trolling for a warm-fuzzy award. An extreme loony hears the news and knows no one can stop him, so lock and load.

Ask your favorite congress-critter if his life is more important than a 1st grader's.

Steve  Dosh's picture

† y v m Mike , again . /s

† y v m Mike , again . /s Santa Steve and his kids , the elves , Mrs. Claus et.al.,
US Army seeks death penalty in 16 Afghan killings
By GENE JOHNSON Associated Press The Associated Press
Wednesday, December 19, 2012 3:23 PM EST
*< ;- Q~ http://www.noradsanta.org/ b t w - Don't smoke ~ It will kill you • 

 's picture

Dosh, do you know of a filter ...

... that will automatically translate your gibberish to English?

Pineapple juice addiction obviously causes many mental problems.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

My table has a skip filter.

My table has a skip filter. It simply skips over Steve's posts. Perhaps cryptic text is Steve's strategy to avoid dialogue - we cannot criticize what we can't understand.

Jason Theriault's picture

So...

You want USSS and DSS agents guarding our schools? Because the reason you don't hear about massacres at those sites is that there is a MASSIVE police presence.

On a side note - If you arm teachers, you realize you'll be arming the largest union in America?

 's picture

I hadn't thought of that!

Yup, keep guns away from those union goons. Let them get along with just their clubs and saps.

No, I don't want massive guarding at schools. I want schools to stop telling the lunatics that there are no guards.

 's picture

Gun tragedies always good for NRA's business

First of all,i'm disappointed in Mr. Rhodes.I am a gun owner,a member of the NRA, and i'm licensed to carry.Also i'm a Dad, a Grampa,old Marine,former police officer,and paramedic.My wife and i subscribe to the Sun Journal for honest,informed news.Mr.Rhodes,my firearms just sit where i put them.I don't have to glance at them as i walk by to make sure that they're not forming an alliance so they can rise up and slay us all!You're OPINION that if i own a gun i'm not safe?I must not be a "reasonable person".Mr Rhodes,a gun is no more dangerous than a spoon or maybe a salt shaker, without human intervention.Yes there's a surge in gun sales.It didn't start in the recent past.It started when good,honest patriotic Americans realized that our government isn't keeping us safe.We're Americans..WE will protect our families.As for suicides and domestic homicide and suicide,are you sure that the answer doesn't lie with the medical establishment or families responding when a loved one is acting strange or in a dangerous manner to them.I'm not sure and either are you,but please get your facts straight.Gotta' run, i'm being mobilized by the NRA.?!

RONALD RIML's picture

You were superfluous??

Richard Seigle writes: "We're Americans..WE will protect our families"

So you were hired as a police officer why???

Mr. Rhodes speaks for many.

Comparing a spoon to a weapon is ludicrous. I won't even stoop to a salt shaker. Obviously a discussion is not what you'd be interested in. You're already mobilized .... no?

ERNEST LABBE's picture

Question

Can a spoon not be sharpened enough to make it a weapon? Can a glass salt shaker not be broken and used to cut an arterie? Perhaps you missed the last part of the sentence you refered to.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

I've heard beer bottles make

I've heard beer bottles make a pretty formidable deterrent/weapon. Do we ban beer, or package it only in cans ? But then, a six pack can put a man's lights out in more ways than one.

Jason Theriault's picture

Reminds me of this:

Why a spoon, cousin?

Oops Ernie ..

I must not have gotten my facts straight? ;)

Steve  Dosh's picture

Gun tragedies always good for NRA's business

ed., 12.18.12 18:40 HST ?
Thank you , LSJ ® , for letting us vent our fears and frustrations on this weighty topic
http://abcnews.go.com/US/nra-silent-school-shooting/story?id=17993360
^^ The National Rifle Association remains mum ^^
Let Christmas begin , for the children , any way • " Careful . You'll shoot your eye out . " -- Gene Shepard
b t w --> http://emailsanta.com/email_santa.asp <-- it's not too late to email Santa , kids , and he actually reponds !
/s , Santa Steve and ohana , Hawai'i *< ;-Q~ . . ....

 's picture

Ask The Right Questions

Cynics? A safe bet in the the aftermath of the massacre last week would have been it would take all of 30 seconds for the proponents of banning the possession of firearms would leap on the tragedy to reinvigorate their longstanding crusade against the Second Amendment. With their media cronies well in hand, the crusade erupted with a fury. Sadly, these cynics care not one iota for the lives of those children.

Most people know that firearms jump into the hands of other good people and whisper, "Use me to kill," until the murderer complies, right?

In reality, ought we not be asking WHY this evil boil on the butt of humanity did what he did rather than how? Would it have been somehow been less tragic if he'd filled a van with readily available materials arranged in such a way that they became a bomb a la Timothy McVeigh and detonated it to kill those children?

If we don't find out why, we can ban firearms, but the atrocities will continue. I would venture most of the recent mass killers shared common threads. Why not start with a look at video games and the senseless, mindless thrill killing that Hollywood spews out as entertainment today? Why not look at video games where murder is the goal, a celebrated virtue, alternate realities where kids like the oozing, putrid wound in Connecticut spend most of their free time? Kids wallow in computer generated worlds and have trouble seeing the real world as separate from the fantasy world the spend so much time inhabiting. Why not, for starters, restrict the sale of games rated ""M" to those over 18 and require an ID? Hold parents responsible, just as we do when they buy minors alcohol, for kids possessing and using these game? Mandate that video game players have a V-chip mechanism where parents can prevent them from playing games rated "M" ? Insist that Hollywood develop voluntary measures to reduce the number of movies glorifying murder and violence?

After all, it seems to me every bit as reasonable to suggest violent media entertainment had/has as much influence as that firearm whispering demands to be used as a WMD had in that senseless tragedy. Sadly, we won't see people like the editor of this paper insisting we look for the reasons why this happened rather than how, simply because looking at the why might hit a little too close to their media homes.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Well spoken - kudos.

Well spoken - kudos.

 's picture

Two points...

1. The Second Amendment has the words "militia" and "common defense." I would ask to what militias did these gunmen belong and what were they in common defense of?

2. The weapon of choice when the second Amendment was written was a flintlock.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

And blood letting was state

And blood letting was state of the art medical care. Thank god for technological advancements.

 's picture

Very perceptive.

You're obviously a scholar. And 20 six- and seven-year-old bodies with bullet holes in them are just the cost of doing business as usual.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

In the bigger picture, where

In the bigger picture, where life is challenged daily, far more people die of a plurality of reasons. Perhaps limited resources can be applied more effectively elsewhere.

According to the CDC there are roughly 36,000 gun related deaths annually. This recent mishap represents about 0.0055% of the annual deaths due to guns.

Why are we giving so much attention to this incident and not proportionate time to any another? The answer is pure emotion, and emotion never makes good solutions.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

Mark, do you have kids? (geeze, I hope not)

Of COURSE caring people get emotional over the tragic deaths of innocent children. One of the signs of a psycopath is no emotion. No empathy. Look in the mirror lately?

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Of course people get

Of course people get emotional; it is part of being human. That said, emotion still does not make for clear and rational judgement.

Say that you are flying in a plane when one of the two engines fails. Would you want the pilot to respond emotionally or rationally?

I want a rational reaction from the pilot. Similarly, I want a rational reaction from politicians. Banning guns because they look like military weapons would be an emotional reaction and not address the root cause.

 's picture

They don't LOOK...

...like military weapons - they ARE military weapons. They were designed and built to be people killers.

 's picture

So we...

...should just ignore twenty 6-and 7-year-old kids lying in pools of blood with multiple gun shot wounds and just check it off as the cost of doing business.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

There may be nothing we can

There may be nothing we can reasonably do. The assailant is dead, so there is not one to hold accountable.

 's picture

But we can reasonably...

...hold the killing machine accountable. Merry Christmas.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

By your reasoning we should

By your reasoning we should also hold the alcohol industry accountable for alcohol related deaths. Were is the reasoning in that?

 's picture

Great excuse.

Absolutely great excuse. Got another one?

MARK GRAVEL's picture

No excuses. It is an analogy;

No excuses. It is an analogy; it is the voice of reason; it is America's Mr. Right - as in correct.

 's picture

Yea, yea, yea.

And those dead kids just the cost of doing business. They died in defense of your convoluted ideals, right?

MARK GRAVEL's picture

That is only your opinion

That is only your opinion Bob-

JOANNE MOORE's picture

Accountability.....

If a bartender serves a drunk and that drunk goes out and causes vehicular manslaughter, the bartender is held accountable. That's why we need strict gun laws that would allow authorities to trace back to the point of sale. If we make the seller aware that he will be held accountable, and register the guns the same as we do vehicles, it would go a long way to prevent these mass killings. There would be provenance, a way to determine original ownership. And with modern technology, a way to encode each weapon that would be invisable so that serial numbers could not be ground off.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

"If we make the seller aware

"If we make the seller aware that he will be held accountable, and register the guns the same as we do vehicles, it would go a long way to prevent these mass killings."

Really, are you drinking spiked egg nog? A nut job is going to be less of a nut job if and only if they follow the above process? Name one mass killing that your process would have prevented?

Yet another example emotion driven response void of logic.

 's picture

OK.

Then give us an example of non-emotion driven response full of logic for putting bullet holes in 26 bodies, 11 in one six-year-old.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

Two very good points, Bob.

Thanks!

 's picture

Beautiful cat.

We had one that looked a lot like yours. Brunswick is my home town.

ERNEST LABBE's picture

Get ready to take my head off.

Let us imagine that every adult that worked in the Newtown school was:

1) Requied to have a loaded weapon within easy reach of their work area, and it was safely secured in a safe or simular device with a gun lock on the weapon.

2) Every adult in that school were trained and tested on their ability to use the weapon.

Now given that had the actor come into school and shot the principal which was supposedly the first life he took. How long would it have taken before walking down that hallway would have insured his life ewould end rather quickly.

Perhaps one or two innocent individuals may have been hit or killed, however there would be at least 25 still alive and having Christmas with their families.

Just a bit about me I'm 67, am not a member of the NRA, have no desire to carry a concealed weapon. However I did play cops and robbers, and cowboys and indians when I was a child. In fact I still have my two six shooters and their holster. Plus a couple of other goodies. I have never considered taking my own life or anyone else's with a gun.

As for suicides a gun is just a tool for the person in that state of mind to use, there are a great many options for them to use. Ropes, cars, bridges, water, knifes, and even fast moving big trucks, If they really decide to end their life the will find a way.

Go ahead and beat on me deep down you know I'm right.

Jason Theriault's picture

The counter

You're right - it might have prevented this tragedy.
Or not.
He was crazy, and to try and predict how he would react is impossible. But knowing that every teacher is armed might have changed how he responded. What if he waited till recess, and use the AR-15's greater accuracy to pick off kids, where the teachers would be less effective with their handguns. Or he surprised a bus driver, taking her and all the students on board out. A crazy person, like Mr Childkiller(making a conscience effort NOT to remember his name), will find a way to use the tools at their disposal.

Then, there would be these stories we would hear from time to time:
"Teacher's gun used to shoot teacher by student"
"Teacher freaks out, starts waving gun"
"Teacher's gun stole, used to shoot cop"

Nope, the solution should be to make it harder to get guns, so that we can catch the guns before they get into criminal's hands. We need to watch guns and ammo more closely. Like anyone buying alot of ammunition should get extra attention.

Jason Theriault's picture

The Coup de Grâce

Let me tell you the story of another shooting.

13 people died, 29 were injured.

The shooter went to a gun store and asked for the most high tech weapon with largest magazine capacity.
He got a FN Five-seven pistol.
In 10 minutes , he got off over 200 rounds utilizing 20 and 30 round magazines, 13 people died, 29 were injured.

Ring a bell? No?

The shooter was Major Nidal Malik Hasan.
The location was Fort Hood
The majority of the victims were soldiers.

Maybe they should have had armed teachers at Fort Hood.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Faulty analogy since solders

Faulty analogy since solders at fort hood or at any base do not carry their weapon while not in a combat or training situation. Contemplated the outcome if they were armed Einstein.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

Wrong again, bub.

MPs are considered soldiers. They are always armed whilst on duty. My hubby, who retired from the military was armed with a 45 back then. And, of course, he was fully armed whilst on tour in France and when he drove for DeGaulle and Eisenhower.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Perhaps your information is

Perhaps your information is as dated as you. State side bases do not have MP's posted around every corner nor do they post MP's in and throughout hospitals.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

I did not say" around every corner".

I said MPs are armed unless off duty. Once again you are fudging the obvious and changing the subject.

ERNEST LABBE's picture

Jason you are right

Jason you are right. There are teachers (instructors) at Ft Hood. Had they been armed they would have used their training and marksmanship to eliminate the problem Major.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Your assumption is predicated

Your assumption is predicated on the fact that instructors and therefore training is geographically co-located to the crime. This is of necessarily the case.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

Name a base......

....that does not have instructors and ongoing training. And name a base that does not have an MP patrol.

CLAIRE GAMACHE's picture

An idea

The best gun control suggestion I have read so far is that we treat guns the way we treat cigarettes. Extend regulations regarding registration and background checks to all gun sales then tax them. Failure to pay your taxes, as we all know, is a crime. We should use the taxes collected to fund mental disease research and treatment programs, domestic abuse programs, and buy back programs. That way folks would have their Second Amendment rights and could buy all the guns they want and fondle them all day and if the situation should occur where they would have unfortunate changes in their domestic situation or get some mental disease they would have an alternative to shooting up the local kindergarden or their own families not to mention themselves. Regarding the Second Amendment I would amend it so that all copies would have the words WELL REGULATED MILITIA in caps. Apparently the Newtown lady who owned all those guns did not meet the requirement for being a well regulated militia.

 's picture

NRA does not represent hunters or gun owners

That's perfectly clear. Gun owners and hunters are represented by those that ensure at the greatest degree possible that guns are respected and people protected. NRA does not such thing.

1. The US Constitution guarantees that every individual has the right of gun ownership not for any particular reason but because people are sovereign. People have the inherent right to protect themselves. They do not have any right to take up arms against a popularly elected democratic government acting consistent with the Constitution.
2. That right has nothing to do with the idea that the Second Amendment is an act of Federalism protecting state militias from Federal Control. The Constitution makes clear that State militias are under the joint control of both the Federal and State governments.
3. The essence of the Federal Constitution was to strip states of their power over economic development and military action because states like Massachusetts could not manage either.

All that said the Second Amendment like all the provisions of the Constitution does not make any right absolute. Where the government has a compelling interest, those rights can and should be balanced. The lives of 20 6 and 7 year olds is such an interest. No one should say that regulating semi-automatic firearms will prevent such incidents, but it will reduce the butcher's bill. That is also a compelling Government interest.It will lessen the terror in society and that is a government interest.
Gun rights people can not be ignored. Their position that had someone in that school building been armed the lose of life might also have been less. Combat trained, properly licensed, yearly reviewed people with concealed weapons are a deterrant and a protection.
Now let's talk also about the failure in this country to get the emotional challenged the care they need in balance with the safety the country must have and the dozens of other issues that could make a difference to the nation's children.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Very well stated, Jon... no,

Very well stated, Jon... no, don't blink; it's really me.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

The parrot must have you

The parrot must have you under duress.

Your point

To copy you -"Gun rights people can not be ignored. Their position that had someone in that school building been armed the lose of life might also have been less". That statement HAS to coincide with this >>>>> "Combat trained, properly licensed, yearly reviewed people with concealed weapons are a deterrant and a protection". The NRA will surely dispute that as they want everyone armed, without anything close to those requirements, some states even have NO training needed to carry a concealed weapon. The NRA's belief is those requirements would unduly infringe on everyone's rights to carry. Combat training should be replaced with simple law enforcement training. Our schools and public places are not battlefields ........ yet. Guns are the biggest of many areas that need to be discussed.
You're only 2nd second person I have heard that says the NRA doesn't support hunters and gun owners, why is that? You folks need to speak out and ignore the others.

 's picture

I think you mis-understood

"Combat training" is a specific kind of training for a situation where you are facing one or more opponents who are about to shot at you. Doesn't mean or have anything to do with war. Combat pistol training is often shown in moves like one of the Dirty Harry series. I used that phrase because shooting target (paper or metal) develop skills needed to identify civilians and therefore not turning a school classroom into a battlefield. Law enforcement traning is rarely enough.
Hunter's have supported a maximum 3 or 5 shot magazines for decades because they don't want to be in the woods with some irresponsible hunter shooting up the landscape with 30 round magazines. NRA opposes restrictions on magazines; hunters shouldn't. Gun owners want and need easy access, easy transfer, and respect for guns. Having mass shootings undermines everything they want and need. The NRA ignores the threat. That's not in gun owners interest. And I have said these things fo decades.

Maybe ... maybe not

I would think your description of combat training fits what law enforcement get, with regular refreshers, but frankly I don't know. This is an area where I started to get involved after the Gifford incident but as things evolved training seemed to be of no concern of the NRA and for most states and the big push was to get as many concealed carries as possible everywhere so the good guys can protect us from the bad guys. What I'd call junk science.
Why aren't the hunters carrying any weight nowadays? Yes, Ive heard statements like your for many years but obviously hunters don't appeal to the NRA as in the past. My guess is the NRA is only concerned about conceal carry and the so-called absolute power of the 2nd. Hunting is declining and that's what really made them respectful but, just maybe, the hunters are all talk and afraid to buck the establishment?

 's picture

Mostly I agree

I believe some but not all law enforcement officers get combat training. The quality of the training also varies considerably. My point was to emphasize that giving teachers guns is by itself no answer. Trained, experienced, people might be.
Make no mistake. The NRA is only interested in promoting gun sales. Its not your grandfather's NRA. 4 million members. 1/10 of the AARP and shrinking fast. But very important in rural America.
The majority (I believe recent polls put it at 74% on some issues) of NRA members do think that common sense gun controls should be adopted. But the membership doesn't hand out the money come election time. The assault weapons ban is not common sense. You restrict guns based on their capabilities - cyclical rate of fire in this case. Not because they "look like" something. So only by banning all semi-automatic weapons can you have any credibility. The gun industry ridiculed and rightly so the assault weapons ban.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

OK, Gary, here goes....

I'm speaking out. I want to ask the question why no one in the media gets the connection between the NRA and ALEC. Ever heard of ALEC?

Google NRA and ALEC connection. Read everything you can on ALEC because this is the power behind the NRA.

 's picture

Nope

"Read everything you can on ALEC because this is the power behind the NRA." NOPE. The power behind the NRA is the gun industry and nothing else. Every law promoted and every standment made by the NRA has one and only one beneficiary - the gun industry. Long ago the NRA defended law enforcement. Then it moved to hunters. Then to gun owners. But for the passed several decades it has supported only the gun industry. More guns = more profits.
ALEC is an organization the NRA and many corporations use to develop and promote right-wing legislation. If anything the NRA is a power behind ALEC.
So let us not go off half cocked.

Joanne .... many thanks!

I had never heard of this connection. What an eye opener. You have to wonder where else the NRA has their hooks in. "It seems to get deeper as you dig" ............ like creating a big black hole?
I suspect the media knows but they have to be careful. CBS & Faux News for sure. So many people/orgs have their hands in each others pockets makes them want to keep their hands there for fear of the cold. I'll keep on reading there, thanks again.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Perhaps just another

Perhaps just another conspiracy theory.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Why, I'll bet ALEC, NRA,

Why, I'll bet ALEC, NRA, EXXON, and HALIBURTON are all intertwined with, you guessed it, Dick Cheney as the kingping.

 's picture

Pirate you really know how it works.

Its a interconnected set of pyramids. The pyramid base is the companies within an industry; next level the industry lobbyists, next level the vendors, customers, and employees of the industry. Then pyramids with overlapping interests connect through lobbying groups and create social services organizations - colleges, ALEC, think tanks, newspapers, NRA and through these organizations hire "influencers" - new readers, columnists, historians, economists, political science folks, pollsters, etc. Money being the glue.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

Pot meet Kettle.

Spoken like you know all about conspiracy theories - like your conspiracy to overthrow our duly elected government for instance?

I have never heard of them and I will check it out.

The NRA is connected in many areas ...... beyond the politicians. Maybe we'll know more tomorrow after the NRA's "offer".

 's picture

Who is rooting hardest for strict gun control?

The Mafia and the Cartels. Misguided government control of booze created the former, of drugs the later. And you're very naive if you think the bent-noses aren't already here in Maine. Both will gladly jump into the gun business and happily sell to the highest bidder, and there won't be any three day waiting period or registration or safety classes - not even a modest expectation of decent manufacturing practices.

The motivated lunatic will have to pay more for a piece of junk, likely pushing him to even higher levels of mayhem. There will be a higher probability that it will blow up in his hand, but that's the best we can hope for.

Jason Theriault's picture

You got me....

You got me, I'm Chef de Famille of the Auburn French Mafia, and I want to ban guns so that I can open "speak easy" shooting parlors.

You do realize that the cheapest place on Earth to get a gun is the United States. And that underground weapons dealing is already in place. The only thing is that underground weapons are SUPER EXPENSIVE. Think paying $3,000 for a $300 gun.

(BTW - I'm not in the Mafia. My info is sourced from http://gizmodo.com/5927379/the-secret-online-weapons-store-thatll-sell-a...)

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

The parrot wants to know if

The parrot wants to know if you're related to Chef Boyardee.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Or perhaps the Pillsbury

Or perhaps the Pillsbury Dough Boy.

No

But tell the parrot I just may be related to "David's" peanuts. He should love that!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

The Chef Boyardee was in

The Chef Boyardee was in reference to Jason's "Chef de Famille" thing.
The parrot sez a complimentary 10 pound bag (he's a greedy bird) of "David's" peanuts would be most welcome aboard the vessel, "LET'S GO RAIDING".

I knew that .......

Sorry, sold out. NRA bought them all for the "announcement" tomorrow. Seems they have something up their sleeve, but probably not a parrot ...... har ...har.

 's picture

Now think that the $300 gun is gone ...

... by government fiat. The underground weapon dealers, not being entirely stupid, respond to the laws of supply and demand.

Jason Theriault's picture

Wait

So, the gun the underground dealers charged $3,000 will now go for $10K.... Sounds like there will be less guns on the street

Jason Theriault's picture

A simple proposal...

Please tell me why we can at least subject guns to the same regulations as cars?

 's picture

I am a single woman. I am

I am a single woman. I am also a Maine Master Guide. Several years ago I was awoken by crashing and pounding on my door at two am. Four drunken men were trying to get into the house. I should mention that I live off grid and fifteen miles from any help. I went down stairs and to keep the door from being destroyed, I opened it. I didn't say one word. They took one look and tumbled over each other trying to get back to their vehicle. Why? I was holding a twelve gauge shotgun when I opened the door. Any questions?

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Yes, how can you access the

Yes, how can you access the internet if you live off the grid?

 's picture

I am a single woman..

Ma'am,i wonder why the United States wouldn't look to Maine for some good old fashioned common sense.We take care of ourselves.We know what to do when it needs to be done.I'm sure that you're home invaders told their friends.You're a keepuh.

Home Self Defense

One - it has to be asked, what if the person on the other side, drunk and had a weapon? Not knowing if you could see through your door or absolutely knew he didn't I mean. For me home defense is not a topic of discussion. I have to admit you were lucky they didn't shoot you when you opened it, but that's the other side of the coin eh? Those guys are likely still talking about it Penny!
What you do to protect yourself in your house is your business, regarding the law and safety. Guns in public areas should be everyone's concerns.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

"For me home defense is not a

"For me home defense is not a topic of discussion."
What do you mean? You condone it or discussing it nauseates you. Which?

My other posts explain

To save you a trip ....I condone it and always will. We have bigger issues looming.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Fair enough...defense of home

Fair enough...defense of home is paramount. If we don't defend the castle, how can we expect to defend the town, the state, the country?

 's picture

Home Self Defense

Sir,my "neighbor" here in Maine did the right thing.Did you not read that she doesn't live in a penthouse?She is a country woman that wasn't going to sit on her butt and hope they would just"change their Minds.I'm guessing that she (having common sense)figured that they might have a weapon and dealt with it.She could have shot somebody,but she stopped the threat and went on with her life.In the world we live in,we take care of ourselves.If i have to explain it, you would'nt understand.In the country,a person sometimes has to priorotize.When we do that our safety is number one.We're alone in the country and we own 12 gauge shotguns.You call the authorities ,and then you wait.Men and women in law enforcement are owed a big debt,but in most cases when they get there it's after the fact.That's unnaceptable.

You missed my point Richard

I believe she did the right thing and my only concern for her is whether it might have turned out differently. That's the risk one takes in those situations. I have never, and never will, question home defense by anyone. Believe me, I know where you're coming from. Again, I repeat ...... my only concerns are when weapons are in public areas, and that, to me, doesn't mean the country.

David Marsters's picture

NRA

I believe everyone should be armed with automatic, not semi-auto, rifles. In Switzerland every home owner by law has a machine gun at ready. You don't ever see this country at war and the crime rate is almost 0. People kill not guns. Every politician should get off their high horses and get down to reality. Arm everyone in the USA

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Pure emotion, no reason. That

Pure emotion, no reason. That is the US's only response. No one seems to examine who and why about gun violence. According to the CDC, about 83% of the annual deaths by guns are gang related or suicide.

Moreover, nearly all gang related shootings involve hand guns, not assault weapons. As for suicides, not much happens after the first shot is fired, so the type of firearm is irrelevant - single shot or 30 round clip.

RONALD RIML's picture

And what does Mark present....????

He alleges 'No reason' - while providing none himself.

An excuse - without even providing a source. You can do better.

This is simply awesome .....

It's statements like these perpetuate the anger and really miss the boat on reality. I can only assume you're a NRA member in good standing and trying to spread good will amongst us. Had a hard time leaving the military too. Why is it you folks compare us to other countries? That's apples and oranges my friend. To make the statements you do, quite frankly, shows your intelligence. Unless of course, if you don't belong to the NRA, don't or never owned a gun and quite frankly don't care either way about the discussion? I too am from Massachusetts and I think you would be much better off if you took your next trip, and soon Dave. No offense of course.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Massachusetts, eh?

Massachusetts, eh?

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

"Why is it you folks compare

"Why is it you folks compare us to other countries?"
Isn't it the liberals who are always telling us how Europe is so far ahead of the USA in so many things, including health care?

JOANNE MOORE's picture

No. Not true.

In Switzerland, their national army is militia. Men between the ages of 20 and 30 are conscripted and are expected to keep their weapons at home to be used in case of invasion. They were given 50 bullets but that practice has been discontinued. And if they decide to keep their weapons after service, the weapon is sent back to the factory and the automatic is turned into semi-automatic.
I have no idea who you are, David, but I do know how to check outlandish pronouncements. Nice try.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

Lots of info. But I bet you won't read it.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Question: Can I drive to the

Question:

Can I drive to the local sporting store and purchase an automatic assault weapon?

RONALD RIML's picture

No, Son, you may not.

Now be a good little boy and dry the dishes for your mother.

 's picture

No,Not true

Facts,what a concept.

 's picture

You didn't get that line...

...quite right, Dave. It's "People with guns kill people."

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

And knives, and hammers, and

And knives, and hammers, and beer bottles, and arsenic, and alcohol, and drugs, and swords, and cars, and fists, and kicks to the head, and......People kill people with anything they can get their hands on. Guns just happen to be one of the many.

 's picture

Yea...

That beer bottle massacre was horrendous. Or was it arsenic. I forget.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

It was well covered on PMSNBC

It was well covered on PMSNBC

RONALD RIML's picture

Pack your bags for Switzerland, Dave....

And don't forget Ricola......

David Marsters's picture

Switzerland

I am packing as you read this and taking my military pension, police pension, and Social security with me.

RONALD RIML's picture

Good.

I trust you've worked out all the migration requirements and paperwork with Switzerland so there's no surprises.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

No Ronald. Dave, the NRA,

No Ronald. Dave, the NRA, myself, and like minded people will fix it here and send you packing to where ever if you don't like it.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

Bloviating

Fix it here? Fix what? What's broken? Exactly what is it. Details, please, or are you just blowing smoke out your arse.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

We will protect our second

We will protect our second amendments rights.

RONALD RIML's picture

Rather than our Children

Check.......

JOANNE MOORE's picture

Ronald.....

Check out my link upthread. I suspect Dave wouldn't like it there. ; )

RONALD RIML's picture

Switzerland has certain requirement for foreign 'Retirees'

One of these being that they have an minimum annual income of 100,000 Swiss Francs (CHF) - that being equal today to $109,533.

I know many Massachusetts cops knock down a damn good pension - but don't know if our buddy is going to get there with that and his National Guard pension. Even living in Switzerland, Uncle Sam is going to want to tax it.

Many, many hoops for him to jump through. He doesn't seem the most flexible person in the world to change his way of living at this point in his life.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Income retirement, no

Income retirement, no problem, especially if it excludes you and your liberal friends.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

Aw, he's just spouting off.

Wait till he finds he can't "carry".

RONALD RIML's picture

No longer getting 'Free Coffee' was probably traumatic

enough for him.....

Wait till the Swiss care not a fig for his over-inflated ego.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

LOL. What I don't understand is...

...how can anyone make such baldface untrue statements and expect others to believe it? Guess he never heard of fact check or Google. I'd also guess he never let facts stand in the way. Foxitosis symptom, for sure.

BROOKS MORTON's picture

And once again

The Sun Journal shows its true colors.
How about stopping the knee jerk reaction and look for the root cause of the random acts of violence in the WORLD today.

Steve  Dosh's picture

Brooks , 18:30 HST Tuesday

Brooks , 18:30 HST Tuesday
" The Sun Journal shows its true colors , " and their colors don't run either : the good 'ole red , white and blue
Thank goodness for the Fourth Estate , LSJ ®
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fourth_Estate i.e., freedom of the priniting press •  /s Dr. Dosh *<;-Q~

RONALD RIML's picture

Root Cause of Random Violence

is Random Assholes. But they can do so much less harm without assault rifles, etc.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

I can get 9 shots in a

I can get 9 shots in a shotgun with 00. Now think what happens when I hang 3-4 on my body. Just as deadly Einstein.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

How manly!

I'll bet you are a big hit on the street where you live, Dr. Death.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

My statement is example to

My statement is example to show Ronald that banishing assault weapons is not the solution. People intent on doing harm to others will find a way.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

But it will take them longer.

And by the time they find their way out of their mother's basement, they will probably forget what it was and go have another bong hit.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

The root cause is man made.

I can't remember when a woman did these things. Yes, there are women who are violent but please let us know what you think the "root cause" is.

And since when is discussing gun regulation a "knee jerk reaction"?

Amedeo Lauria's picture

Reasonable people might read...

the US Constitution and understand the intent of meaning of our founding fathers.

They were certainly wiser than the bunch we have running the place now.

RONALD RIML's picture

And knowledgeably people understand

That those who live in the past are doomed to repeat it.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Yes, that is why we don't

Yes, that is why we don't want a Washington style solution - it will fail.

RONALD RIML's picture

So you're calling for the Revolution now?

That's why you want your guns and money......

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

You left out the lawyers (to

You left out the lawyers (to sort it all out when the shooting is done)

JOANNE MOORE's picture

You really hate this country,

[This comment has been removed by the administrator]

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

About time....

About time....

Steve  Dosh's picture

Ron , Absolute power

Ron , Absolute power corrupts , absolutely :)

Betty Davies's picture

Weapons manufacturers have taken over the NRA

Their ONLY motive is profit. They keep people scared, and fan the flames of paranoia. Quick--buy lots more guns!

Corporations have no interest in public safety or public health. They use the NRA--which was once simply a sportsmen's group--as their propaganda tool.

It's time to enforce the "well-regulated" part of the second amendment.

And it's past time to end the nonsensical notion that the Founders intended to have citizens arm themselves in order to commit treason any time they felt an urge to overthrow the duly elected government.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Perhaps the paranoia shoe is

Perhaps the paranoia shoe is on your foot. People want guns. In part, the right to own guns symbolizes our vanishing freedoms. Just because you "feel" no or little need for guns, or you don't understand why others want and desire gun ownership, does not mean there is some grand conspiracy by gun manufactures to brainwash people into buying guns. Moreover, the Obama administration has done more to boost gun sales than any gun manufacture - gun sale statistics tell that story and tell it well.

Jim Cyr's picture

Ms. Davies, Their ONLY

motive is profit and they keep people scared and fan the flames of paranoia !! Sounds just like the "SPIN MEDIA" to us. a " well-regulated" militia is intended for the case against a tyrannical government. Not much good if all one has is a BB or pellet gun.

RONALD RIML's picture

If Jim were to read the Constitution he would find:

Article I, Section 8 states that Congress has the power to:

"To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;"

Suppress Insurrections, Damn - sounds like if the Tea-Party and Anti-Obama types stir up an 'Insurrection' against the government - the 'Militia' - Gun-Owners, may be required to put it down.

Are you 2nd Amendment Backers up to that???

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Ronald "I live a fantasy"

Ronald "I live a fantasy" Riml,

Since when is opposing a sitting administration constitute an insurrection?

Bush received as much or more criticism from the left than B.O. is receiving from the right. Moreover, the right didn't espouse cries of insurrection.

My judgement of you is that you are making a mountain out of your butt zit.

Betty Davies's picture

LOL!

Nice one.

RONALD RIML's picture

Cyr is no historian

The 'Well Regulated Militia' was intended to negate the requirement for a large standing army.

Betty Davies's picture

Do you really think the Founders...

...while they were establishing a constitutional democracy, were trying to make it easy for anybody in the future who might be dissatisfied with the government to simply bypass all those details about elections and turn a stockpile of weapons on duly elected officials? The word for that is treason. Treason via armed insurrection is NOT what the founders wanted for the United States.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

I,m sure that is what king

I,m sure that is what king Gorge thought too - one man's treason is another man's revolution.

Betty Davies's picture

So you're collaborating in a plot to overthrow the government?

Interesting. Don't expect sympathy or thanks.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

This is just a statement

This is just a statement indicating there is two sides of any issue. BTW, your sympathy is not sought nor desired.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

Yes, Betty, they are.

We used to call them neo nazis or skinheads. This new festering mess of humanity is much more rabid. And psychotic. I'm surprised they think they can get away with it. But that's just it. They don't think.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

And you only have the left's

And you only have the left's policies to thank for that. You don't think that the Government can keep making policy that is counter to a significant fraction of the population without blowback.

It is your leftist and fascist views that are swelling their ranks.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

Geeze, mark...

Leftist and fascist are polar opposits. Fascists are right-wing. Leftists are, well, left wing.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

"Fascism was founded during

"Fascism was founded during World War I by Italian national syndicalists who combined left-wing and right-wing political views.[10][11]. Fascists have commonly opposed having a firm association with any section of the left-right spectrum..."

Wiki.

Betty Davies's picture

And yet...

"Benito Mussolini in 1919 described fascism as a movement that would strike "against the backwardness of the right and the destructiveness of the left". Later the Italian Fascists described fascism as a right-wing ideology in the political program The Doctrine of Fascism, stating: "We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the 'right,' a fascist century." [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism]

Anyhow, the terms socialist, communist, and fascist are simply buzz words that the American right-wing likes to toss around. They mean, roughly, in that context: "Word I'm throwing at you because I heard somewhere it's a bad thing and I don't like you so here it is!"

MARK GRAVEL's picture

You sure get a lot of context

You sure get a lot of context reading between the lines - sure sign of emotion driven behaviors in my opinion.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

It does not change the fact.....

The fact that Fascism is right wing, not left.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Textbook definition of facism

Textbook definition of facism need not be left nor right. Take another sip of your egg nog and keep dreaming.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

You realize you are

You realize you are attempting to pick up the turd by the clean end, right?

MARK GRAVEL's picture

I always have trouble

I always have trouble figuring out which is the clean end and which is the dirty edge. I tend to always get soiled.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Such it is as in trying to

Such it is as in trying to reason with liberals; can't be done.

Jim Cyr's picture

Ms. Davies, Their ONLY

You are "Spinning" again. Does tyranny sound like a duly elected officials ? Treason ?? Are you kidding me ? Standing up for the principals of our Founders is far from " Treason ". Some how Progressives just hate the Constitution and the principals of our Founders.

Betty Davies's picture

If standing up for the Founders' principles...

...in your mind, involves joining hate groups that advocate for violent overthrow of the US, collecting arsenals of military weapons, and so on... I'd say you're certainly not admirable.

And if you fantasize that the Founders HOPED citizens would use the 2nd Amendment to gather weapons in order to overthrow the government they were at that very moment creating, I'd also say you're nuts.

If, one day, you and your friends march down the street waving your weapons in everyone's face, declaring that you're saving us from the government, don't expect thanks. It will be very clear at that moment that YOU are the problem.

Jim Cyr's picture

Standing up for the Founders principals

means to go against the biggest hate group the Progressives are advocating for....ie take from the successful and give to those who have no desire to be. As for violent overthrow of the U.S., I sincerely believe the Left is doing a better job at it. Remember "Occupy " ? The Tea drinkers have never stooped that low !

RONALD RIML's picture

It's called "Unearned Income" for good reason.......

That's the real 'taking'.............

Betty Davies's picture

How hard do millionaires work?

You apparently believe that your average millionaire works harder than your average middle class person, and that everyone who is poor simply likes to be poor and has never bothered to work.

You are mistaken.

The "income of households in the top 1 percent of earners grew by 275%, compared to 65% for the next 19 percent, just under 40% for the next 60 percent, 18% for the bottom fifth of households. "As a result of that uneven income growth," the report noted, "the share of total after-tax income received by the 1 percent of the population in households with the highest income more than doubled between 1979 and 2007, whereas the share received by low- and middle-income households declined …" [wikipedia quoting 2011 study by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) -- "Trends in the Distribution of Household Income Between 1979 and 2007")

What do you figure millionaires have been doing since 1979--how much harder have they been working that the rest of us--to justify DOUBLING their income while the rest of us have lost ground? Has it happened because you and I have worked less, cared less, gotten lazy? Ditto for the unemployed, and disabled, and elderly?

Be careful what you put in your "tea." It could be affecting your reasoning.

Betty Davies's picture

What "tyranny" do you have in mind, then?

People who advocate that weapons be freely available, lest the 2nd amendment be offended, often cite their supposed need to be ready to rise up in armed rebellion against "tyranny." You do agree that duly elected officials don't constitute tyranny.

I see no sign of an approaching end to the election process in the US. Are you one of the folks who favor conspiracy theories that center on our current President? Are you fantasizing about the Army suddenly marching down the streets of your town to force everybody to become Communists, or take down your Christmas trees, or something? And you and your friends racing outside with assault weapons blazing to protect us all?

Betty ........

for all it's worth many do I believe. The propaganda spewing out there, for the last 5-6 years from a number of areas, two being the NRA and the 2nd amendment extremes, has led people to believe exactly that.

Betty Davies's picture

Sadly, you're correct

After I posted that comment I looked up some of those wild-eyed beliefs on the Southern Poverty Law Center's Hate Watch site, and saw where they come from. Lots of evil people spreading evil propaganda. :(

You would be AMAZED .......

at what's out there. I suggest you don't go searching as it would get you very frustrated and awful to be around for awhile. I've been there and it isn't pretty. This are people and parents who have children. I shouldn't have to say more. They are not interested in discussion and are set in their ways so stay away. Keep your day bright as possible!

Steve  Dosh's picture

Gun tragedies always good for NRA's business

LSJ ®  12.27.12 20:00 hst ?
Good for the undertaker , too ?
Excellent editorial ( per usual ) •
. .. on to --> Above-average number of people awaiting trials for murder, manslaughter in Maine . . ( headline )
Melé Kalikimaka from Hawai'i •  /s Steve

Steve  Dosh's picture

. . all 18:18 HST Tuesday

. . all 18:18 HST Tuesday
Guns are the problem . If you are not part of a solution you are then part of the problem , too
The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_metal_jacket_bullet has only one use , killing people
Domestic terrorism . terroristic threatening , assault and battery , murder , slaughter of innocent children and adults , domestic violence , call it what you want -- the common thread here is violence and hatred , anger , fear & intolerance
That s why it happens . h t h • Melé Kalikimaka , /s Steve

RONALD RIML's picture

Gun Salesman of the Decade

Ever see so many frightened Anglo-Saxons?????


MARK GRAVEL's picture

Really Ronald, how do you

Really Ronald, how do you know the racial breakdown of gun purchases? Was it just a feeling, somewhat the comes before your BM?

RONALD RIML's picture

Poor Mark

We're coming for your $$$$

We're coming for your Guns

The only two things that make your life worth living...... Bummer.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Only in your greedy, hate the

Only in your greedy, hate the rich dreams.

RONALD RIML's picture

Something that comes before my MM

.

 's picture

Not personally.

But I'll bet there were plenty in Kankakee before you left town.

RONALD RIML's picture

There so panicked

They rant and rage at empty chairs......

JOANNE MOORE's picture

That poor man!

I will never be able to watch another Clint Eastwood movie without wondering WTF? But I loved "Grand Torino".

Gran Torino!!!! Bought it and seen it 4 times.

A movie with violence and a plot to end violence. It worked, surely only temporary but it left a message for the next bunch. Sad it had to end that way and it's more sad regarding CT.

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