Minot man shoots up house in 6½-hour standoff

Amber Waterman, Sun Journal

A Maine State Police trooper idles in the driveway of 185 Verrill Road in Minot around 2:45 p.m. Saturday after an overnight standoff. Michael Callahan, 44, who lives at the residence, fired dozens of shots over six and a half hours, police said.

MINOT — A Verrill Road man who shot up his house Friday night and caused an armed standoff for more than six hours was being held at the Androscoggin County Jail in Auburn on Saturday, police said.

Michael Callahan
submitted photo

Michael Callahan

Michael Callahan, 44, of 185 Verrill Road, was charged with reckless conduct with a firearm and domestic violence criminal threatening, Maine State Police spokesman Stephen McCausland wrote in a news release. Verrill Road is off of Route 119.

State police and the Maine Attorney General’s Office were investigating the overnight standoff during which dozens of shots were fired by the homeowner, McCausland said.

Troopers were called to the Verrill Road home at about 10:30 p.m. Friday. A family member had fled the house when Callahan began shooting inside, McCausland said. The standoff continued for six and a half hours, police said. No injuries were reported.

"It is not immediately clear what the intended target was of Callahan’s gunshots or how many guns were used," McCausland said.

Callahan surrendered to police shortly after a member of the Maine State Police tactical team returned fire at around 5 a.m., McCausland said.

McCausland said an assault weapon was among the guns seized.

Callahan was sent to a Lewiston hospital for an evaluation before he was taken to jail, McCausland said.

The Maine Attorney General’s Office is investigating the officer involvement, which is standard procedure.

tkarkos@sunjournal.com

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Steve  Dosh's picture

Minot man shoots up house in 6½-hour standoff

†he day B4 the night B4 *<;-Q~
We suggest that N R A sportsmen and women volunteer at your local schools and teach tolerance , acceptance , and gun safety to all students and staff w/ fake guns •
/s . Santa Claus , his elves & the reindeer " Don't Shoot ! "
http://www.noradsanta.org/en/

 's picture

My 2 cents worth

What fascinates me is how some people don't get that as horrible & tragic episodes are like what happened in Newtown, CT, or even the one revolving around Mr. Callahan, those incidents are statistically small compared to the number of people who own/carry firearms. Some estimated 310 million gun owners. However, when you consider the estimated United States of America ENTIRE population is 300 million (comprising of some minors) - so, if you included members of populace who choose to not own guns, that means about reasonably about only 1/3 of the people in America have/carry/use guns. If its a numbers game, then comparatively there should be a record of FAR more incidents than what is on the record. The truth is that a far more vast majority of gun owners DO use them responsibly, REGARDLESS of the intent of the use of the firearms.

Also, how they conveniently forget that no one is demanding THEY have guns. It is a choice, to be made on an individual basis. Unless an individual has a criminal background or demonstrated/documented mental health issues, then said individual has the right to be left alone to pursue THEIR happiness ... if I am not infringing on YOUR rights, then shut your mouth about MY rights. Forgive the directness but I am really fed up w/people targeting individual rights (not just the 2nd Amendment; the 4th & 9th Amendments have been even more violated!) just so they can feel dominant and control "me," even though "I'm" doing nothing wrong (parentheses to mean the individual, not me particularly although that holds true, too)! We already have laws on the books that address when those infringements occur so it seems to be a matter of more enforcement of the EXISTING laws than it does in creating additional, needless laws. That, to me, just seems like deflection and justification on the part of the elected officials to "look busy" as an explanation of what they do while in Washington, D.C. (which, by the way, has one of the strictest set of gun laws yet at one point was classified as "The murder capital of the United States.")

The U.S. Constitution is CLEARLY supportive of the individual to own, carry, and use "arms," not just firearms. This has also been repeatedly upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court on at least a couple of occasions. The wording of the 2nd Amendment was such that not only does it support the right of the individual to own, carry, and use "arms," it goes further in stating that right SHALL NOT be infringed. Again, this is supported by the U.S. Supreme Court in at least a couple of different decisions handed down from the Court (the Heller decision being the most recent, to my recollection). So to those folks clamoring for gun control .... please mind your own business, unless and until it intrudes and infringes upon your business.

Please not only support the 2nd Amendment but actively oppose any attempts to infringe upon it & any other guaranteed Constitutional rights enjoyed by the citizens of this country & upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court, ... period.

Sincerely,

Tony Croteau
Auburn, ME

KATHY WILLIAMSON's picture

Are you aware that there have

Are you aware that there have been at least 100 gun deaths in this country in the week since the incident in Connecticut? Clearly something is wrong. It doesn't happen in countries with stricter gun laws.

 's picture

Are you aware that 100 gun

Are you aware that 100 gun deaths in this country is a pretty vague statement? Are you further aware that 100 deaths by guns in this country, again, comparative to the volume of people, is not even a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the incidences that SHOULD be happening, if you accept the anti-gun folks' claims? That was the point of my original post. I am not trying to diminish the loss of life; I value life, deeply, and anyone who knows me knows that along with my actions that have clearly supported that. But when you do the math, there simply ought to be FAR, FAR more occurrences than what are manifested. As for it not happening in other countries with stricter gun laws, the numbers simply don't bear that to be true. Additionally, let's look closer to home - Illinois (particularly Chicago) has some of the strictest/most oppressive gun laws in America yet consistently retains one of the highest gun violence rates (including deaths) in America. Washington, D.C. was once known as the murder capital of America - WHILE it had some of THE most strict gun laws in America.

The reality is that, while tragic, gun deaths will ALWAYS be a reality in this country. Simply because we have gangbangers running around everywhere, our own government supplying drug cartels w/firearms ITSELF is trying to outlaw, and many terrorist countries seeking to eliminate us. Again, if you're strictly looking at it as a numbers game, then the argument weighs in HEAVILY on the side of the citizenry being armed.

In addition, to outlaw guns (or even seek to) for individual possession/use is to colossally NOT understand why the 2nd Amendment was put into place. Yes, it was put into effect so that an individual could protect themselves from their neighbor but MORE IMPORTANTLY, it was put into effect to keep our government in check as it represents the People. If the People are not enabled with mechanisms by which to resist and defend against their own government when it becomes oppressive and tyrannical, then we have lost the meaning of what it means to be an American altogether. Don't misunderstand or twist or deflect what I just wrote; I'm NOT advocating overthrowing our government. Not in the least. I believe in our government as it is the ONLY government on the planet by which individual freedoms are guaranteed. But note; said government does not PROVIDE said freedoms. When we cannot defend ourselves against "miscalculated" warrant executions or "wrong address" house calls (which are also seemingly more and more prevalent nowadays), then, again, we've lost what it means to be American and have not learned our lesson from history.

Again, while any death is a tragic loss of life, a life that is valued (if by no one else) by our Creator, doing the math clearly demonstrates that there should, in fact, be a MUCH, MUCH higher rate of gun deaths in our country considering how many people own firearms here. That is simple math. The numbers espoused to from other countries have consistently been shown to often come from biased sources, making them unreliable.

KATHY WILLIAMSON's picture

Sorry about my typo. That

Sorry about my typo. That should say CONVOLUTED

KATHY WILLIAMSON's picture

Wow, there is a lot in your

Wow, there is a lot in your post and it's very convulted. I was not being purposely vague but I do not write long posts because frankly, they do not get read. Here's where I got my information. http://www.salon.com/2013/01/03/gun_deaths_rampant_after_sandy_hook_mass...

Chicago and other big cities do have a serious crime problem despite strict gun laws. That's because they are not enforcing gun laws and not controlling crime and gang activity. You cannot deny that other countries like Canada where they control gun access and crime, do not have these issues the way we do.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

I quess the good old days aren't....

I guess the good old days aren't so bad after all. Back when I started owning guns, it wasn't such a big deal, and you bought an assault rifle because it made shooting old cars more fun. Bushmasters, were no more than larger caliber rifles, all dressed up in plastic. They didn't feel much more dangerous than a toy rifle. In fact that's why I purchased a second Bushmaster, because I busted the plastic body on my first one. I never once thought of using those guns for anything other than what we thought was their intended use, putting holes in old cars. OK, we did participate in legitimate target shooting, in fact we belonged to a club which allowed us to waste huge amounts of money on low cost bullets, just to shoot at inanimate objects. The actual target shooting was pretty much reserved for the hand guns. I still have fond memories of my beloved "68 Plymouth Fury". It still sits half off a trail on the back side of a popular mountain in New Hampshire. Not to far off the main slope of a very popular ski resort. If they only knew. I think I spent more money on ammunition to shoot that old car up, than I spent when I first bought the car. I last saw that car about ten years ago, it looked like a huge basket, there wasn't enough sheet metal left on it to manufacture a tuna can.
I guess those were the good old days, it was more like days of innocence. There was no such thing in our minds as mass killings. I remember the day I sold my two Bushmasters, I walked right down a busy street in Natick MA,with a "223 Bushmaster", in broad daylight with no gun case. About two blocks to a gun store. Today, half the state would be shut down by the National Guard, with helicopters and everything. I wouldn't have made it ten steps from my car. I guess those days are long gone, probably just as well. I promise I'm not some mental case, I'm actually quite law abiding, I still own a gun, safely locked in a small gun safe. There is one thing I still miss from those days, the smell of gun powder in the crisp fall air, in the mountains, shooting up an old car. Especially if it was your own old car, and it was a lemon......

KATHY WILLIAMSON's picture

Unfortunately, we have to

Unfortunately, we have to regulate for the lowest common denominator in order to keep people safe.

Kim Waite's picture

Any violent crime committed

against a person or persons is all the proof we need that the person is not mentally stable to own a gun of any kind. If you beat your wife? You lose your guns. If you beat your husband? You lose your guns. If you criminally threaten people (no matter where) or create a standoff with police? You lose your guns. If you beat your child/children? You lose your guns. If you hold up a bank or commit robbery with a gun? You lose your guns. If you commit murder, you lose your guns. If you've had your guns taken away from you because of a violent crime committed in the past and you are caught with a gun, it's a mandatory 5 years in prison.

It's all about responsibility! No one is saying if you hunt with your shotgun and/or if you have a pistol/handgun next to your bed to protect yourself, your family, and your property with are going to be taken away. But! As soon as you commit a violent crime of any sort with your gun (or even without it!), you are proving to the courts and to the people that you are a not a responsible gun owner!

Jeff Johnson's picture

research

Kim...
Were you aware that most of your ideas are already laws? How about dong a little reading or research?

Kim Waite's picture

Actually Jeff...

...I take my sarcastic response back! I apologize. You are right. A quick search of the Internet I did find a women's group that explains what you said:

http://www.womenslaw.org/laws_state_type.php?id=278&state_code=ME&open_i...

Of course, any individual in Maine who has had their guns taken away due to felony/misdemeanor charges could technically purchase a gun at a gun show. The gun show loophole is one that needs to be closed and done away with!

Kim Waite's picture

Really?

All guns are confiscated and never returned and the person cannot own a gun in the future after assaulting the wife? I had no idea! (sarcasm)

Kim Waite's picture

Awwwww, so cute.

He was just a wonderful guy with a gun! No worries there! Yesiree, there are more pencil standoffs in the state than standoffs & property damage done with a gun! See?

This wonderful guy should have all his guns taken from him and not be allowed to own another one during his lifetime. Same goes with anyone who commits a violent crime of any sort. Anyone who is committing a violent crime or who has created a violent scene (standoff with the police) is prove that there are MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES GOING ON and all rights to the possession of firearms is taken away. The End.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

We all have issues....

We all have issues, it's how we deal with these issues that sometimes gets us in trouble. I don't know what this guy's particular issue was, but I'm assuming it's of the "domestic" type. He may be the greatest neighbor in the world, the greatest father, dad, husband, he may be next in line to be the Pope, it doesn't matter. The minute he picked up that gun to vent his frustration, he threw all that away. He's damn lucky he's in jail, and not the morgue.
Getting mad is not an excuse, it's a cop out. I get mad, just driving in L/A gets me to the point that I want to kill something in like five minutes. I don't go home, grab my 44, and start shooting into the air. Its just wrong, and besides, the guy who lives upstairs from me would get pissed. The police sitting in his driveway for over six hours may seem like a waste, unless you consider that they may have prevented him from going someplace more populated to vent his anger.
The bottom line is this, the guy has an anger issue. Guns have ABSOLUTELY no business being within reach of this guy. We always hear, after the fact, "I wish I had seen a sign " or "I never saw this coming". Well here's your sign. This guy needs to take responsibility for his actions, and I hope he takes full advantage of the help I'm sure the judge is going to require him to get. When he goes to court, he's going to be the picture of innocence, He's still going to have his anger problems, they just don't go away......

CLAIRE GAMACHE's picture

There, but for the grace of God

So the people who know this guy say he is a stand-up guy. That's probably true. This should be pretty chilling for those guys with a pile of guns in their house who consider themselves to be stand-up guys. We could be looking at their face in one of these "Crazy shooter goes off his rocker and shoots up his house or the mall" articles next time. The one thing we can be sure of is that there will be a next time. There are hunters in my family so in the interest of family harmony I need to correct a previous post. I truly have nothing against hunting or hunting guns. All the hunters I know are responsible with their guns. I don't know of any hunter using war guns to shoot a deer with thirty bullets though. I also know of gun collectors who are responsible and have no truck with that. Even the most restrictive gun control activists have no problem with gun clubs and shooting ranges. And of course police and people who work in security services should have guns. So I don't really mean that I want to take guns away from the general public. I just want them registered and I want better background checks and I want the laws that are on the books to be enforced. I also want the gun community to contribute to better mental health treatment and safety programs and taxing guns and ammunition would be the easiest way to do that. When the NRA started out it was about gun safety. Now it is about making weapons manufacturers rich. We need to get back to gun safety.

KATHY WILLIAMSON's picture

You just don't get it.

This is something I harp on. Forgive me if you have seen me type this before.

We are raised to believe that if we behave and do everything we are supposed to do, nothing bad will happen. It's not true. Bad things happen to good people. Fine people break down and do things you would not expect them to do. I love this family, always have, and have the utmost respect for them, still.

Respect. Don't judge. If you pray, put these folks on your list. They're wonderful people and have given a lot to our community.

Darlene V. Thomas's picture

So true...

Thank you Kathy! The ones who will come on here, and place judgement, without knowing Mike and his family, literally make me sick to my stomach! I used to work with his wife, and loved her, we had so much fun...and Mike always has a pleasant comment....I feel so sad for the kids too...and to re-quote you Kathy, they are wonderful people, who have always been involved in the town, and schools....to quote Kathy again, don't judge...none of us know what we are capable of, until put in a situation we have never been in. Thinking of them all, being so close to the holiday....

 's picture

this is why we are tried by a

this is why we are tried by a jury of 12. Presuming all the facts are able to be presented in the case, the 12 people on the jury will base their decision on the FACTS, not knee jerk reactions to a headline. At least, hopefully. Otherwise, there's no hope for any of us; just random "luck."

 's picture

Especially around the holidays

Family situations seem to exacerbate.

KATHY WILLIAMSON's picture

P.S.

You may wish to discuss guns, domestic violence whatever. My point is that you are not immune either, and that's why you can't moralize. Good parenting does not overcome mental illness, any more than it can overcome cancer, and good parenting does not give you clairvoyance. Sometimes you really do not get any warning.

GARY SAVARD's picture

Any excuse to slam guns,

Any excuse to slam guns, right Claire?

CLAIRE GAMACHE's picture

An excuse by any other name

Considering how many times we have been shocked by the brutality of school, movie, mall, military base, political shootings in the last few years one doesn't have to look very far for an excuse. Again this week while the NRA was selling the notion of putting armed guards in the schools, four people were shot to death in Pennsylvania and three police were wounded in one of these stand-offs. I think we are past the point where we can just shrug our shoulders and say "**** happens"

Mark Elliott's picture

Don't forget to mention the

Don't forget to mention the thousands of Americans that are SAVED each day by guns!...

KRIS KUCERA's picture

Show me one reliable stat to prove your nonsensical assertion

Each day? Fact is, guns in the home mean more domestic homicide and suicide, not "saved by the gun" myth. Man, the groundless crap you NRA fans spew. Mind boggling.

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.abstract

RONALD RIML's picture

What 'thousands of Americans SAVED each day by guns???

In your dreams, Mark.........

Mark Elliott's picture

I suggest you do some

I suggest you do some studying today.....

Here are a few examples, with source links.

http://www.akdart.com/gun3.html

KRIS KUCERA's picture

Wow, now that's a literature review,

What? no factoids from the NRA's newsletter?

akdart.com? What a total unequivocal joke.

Mark Elliott's picture

Use your head.....adkart.com

Use your head.....adkart.com is only hosting the page with the LINKS on it.......follow them and learn.

KRIS KUCERA's picture

So much to learn?

Tell me more, NRA teacher. No, the electrodes to my testicles are fine with me. Continue, please, at length.

RONALD RIML's picture

Bwa-HAA-Haa-HAAA!

Mark - If you want to spread Propaganda - at least have the decency to try making your case. Just throwing out links is about the laziest excuse in the world......

With that tactic - you must really be working for the 'Anti-Gun' Crowd.

Mark Elliott's picture

You're never happy with facts

You're never happy with facts and you're never happy with the opportunity to read for yourself either........nobody on the right will ever make guys like you happy, unless of course we give up all our rights and join the left. I've pissed on rocks with more common sense......you just keep pounding your keys from your recliner, I'll be out working and making a difference!

RONALD RIML's picture

Mark - And what makes you think those links are facts???

How many links are on that page?? At least a hundred. What makes you think they are the truth???

You claimed that 'Thousands of lives were saved' every day with guns.

That had to be from the link: http://www.pulpless.com/gunclock/stats.html (I did check out some of these links) by Gary Kleck

They claim: "According to the National Self Defense Survey conducted by Florida State University criminologists in 1994, the rate of Defensive Gun Uses can be projected nationwide to approximately 2.5 million per year -- one Defensive Gun Use every 13 seconds. Among 15.7% of gun defenders interviewed nationwide during The National Self Defense Survey, the defender believed that someone "almost certainly" would have died had the gun not been used for protection -- a life saved by a privately held gun about once every 1.3 minutes. (In another 14.2% cases, the defender believed someone "probably" would have died if the gun hadn't been used in defense.)"

Note the word: "Projected" - They don't know for sure. And all of the surveys were returned anonymously. No follow-up information. I was waiting to see if you would comment on this. You didn't comment on anything.

But this study by Kleck has been commented on by others.

The Virginia Center for Public Safety contradicts Klecks Study - see: http://vacps.org/public-policy/the-contradictions-of-kleck

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE STUDIES CONCERNING DEFENSIVE GUN USES

DOJ study reported 83,000 annual defensive gun uses from 1987-1992. During same period, there were more than 135,000 total gun deaths and injuries in the U.S. annually.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/hvfsdaft.txt

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Harvard Injury Control Research Center also contradicts Kleck - see http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1-3 Guns are not used millions of times each year in self-defense

We use epidemiological theory to explain why the "false positive" problem for rare events can lead to large overestimates of the incidence of rare diseases or rare phenomena such as self-defense gun use. We then try to validate the claims of many millions of annual self-defense uses against available evidence. We find that the claim of many millions of annual self-defense gun uses by American citizens is invalid.

Hemenway, David. Survey research and self-defense gun use: An explanation of extreme overestimates. Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology. 1997; 87:1430-1445.

Hemenway, David. The myth of millions of annual self-defense gun uses: A case study of survey overestimates of rare events. Chance (American Statistical Association). 1997; 10:6-10.

Cook, Philip J; Ludwig, Jens; Hemenway, David. The gun debate's new mythical number: How many defensive uses per year? Journal of Policy Analysis and Management. 1997; 16:463-469.

4. Most purported self-defense gun uses are gun uses in escalating arguments and are both socially undesirable and illegal

We analyzed data from two national random-digit-dial surveys conducted under the auspices of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center. Criminal court judges who read the self-reported accounts of the purported self-defense gun use rated a majority as being illegal, even assuming that the respondent had a permit to own and to carry a gun, and that the respondent had described the event honestly from his own perspective.

Hemenway, David; Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah. Gun use in the United States: Results from two national surveys. Injury Prevention. 2000; 6:263-267.

5. Firearms are used far more often to intimidate than in self-defense.

Using data from a national random-digit-dial telephone survey conducted under the direction of the Harvard Injury Control Center, we examined the extent and nature of offensive gun use. We found that firearms are used far more often to frighten and intimidate than they are used in self-defense. All reported cases of criminal gun use, as well as many of the so-called self-defense gun uses, appear to be socially undesirable.

Hemenway, David; Azrael, Deborah. The relative frequency of offensive and defensive gun use: Results of a national survey. Violence and Victims. 2000; 15:257-272.

KRIS KUCERA's picture

In the (mocking) words of Fletch:

God, I admire you.

RONALD RIML's picture

And if you believe anonymous surveys......

With no follow-up - God knows what else you believe.....

RONALD RIML's picture

That is 'Thousands of Americans saved each day???"

What in God's name are you smoking???

It is your burden to provide authoritative statistics - not mere links.

What's your background that you actually believe you have some real-life experience in this sort of thing????

Mark Elliott's picture

I am sorry Mr Riml, it just

I am sorry Mr Riml, it just that I have seen you whine and fuss for the last two years whenever someone posts stats with no source I decided to just give you a list of sources to read.......and your still not happy. Typical liberal.......

There is no burden on me. You asked a question indicating you wanted to learn something. Start learning.......you can do it right from your recliner too if you like.

RONALD RIML's picture

You really don't get it, do you Mark

When debating a subject, the burden is on you to make your point.

First present your thesis.

Secondly - provide supporting references.

- All you've done is put up a link to a site of links. You original argument was that guns save thousands of lives each day. You provided no proof of that. That burden is up to you.

Mark Elliott's picture

This isn't a

This isn't a debate......you're not in any position to make a difference and, until you are, any exchange with you is wasted breathe. When I see you at the state house, or in DC, or at least out of your chair and out in the world making a difference instead of supervising your children on the SJ blog, then we'll talk more......

RONALD RIML's picture

Tell me what you've done, Mark

I was a cop for twenty years. I held shooting victims as they died, waiting for care. I rendered first aid, assisted who I could, and arrested those I must. I was constantly bewildered by America's love affair with violence and the gun, as I witnessed the devastation that it wrought. Did I make a difference? Who knows? But more of a difference than you Keyboard Commandos.

You fly an American Flag for your 'Picture' - what did you do for our Country?? I joined the Navy at 17. Made four combat deployments to Vietnam aboard heavy cruisers. Shipmates were wounded and taken prisoner of war as we engaged the enemy. What action did you see under the flag you sport??

No doubt you probably love guns because you are completely ignorant of the injuries, harm, and death they cause without having experienced it first hand yourself.

I sit in my chair now because I humped my ass when younger. You simply think out your ass.

I've talked all I need to. Now you need to start thinking.

RONALD RIML's picture

Wow, Mark - we don't debate here??

Coulda surprised me.

So 'What difference' do you make? Spell it out on your profile - which is blank.

Mark Elliott's picture

Unfortunately Riml, as i have

Unfortunately Riml, as i have told you before, MY life doesn't revolve around the SJ comments section therefore no profile is needed. I don't spend much time here and I have a real family to spend Christmas with while you spend yours stirring up crap here to impress your sheep......so while you are on here all day, claiming I am too afraid to respond. I'll be having Christmas dinner with my extended family and singing carols. Not one moment of my thoughts will be spent on your thoughts......

While I appreciate the time you put in to serve this country, it doesn't make you high and mighty or any more deserving to fly our flag than any other American. John Kerry served in Vietnam too, then came home and snuggled up with Jane Fonda. Now he brags about his time served. Then there was Timothy McVeigh, well we all know what he did!...... and there are plenty of crooked law enforcement as well. Do yourself a favor......don't behave in a way that would allow us to group you with them.

RONALD RIML's picture

No Profile - No Credibility

John Kerry happened to be right about Vietnam, as so many of us were wrong.

He should brag about his time served. Look up the crew lists of his swift boats, PCF-44 and 94. 'Mark Elliot' does not appear on the list of crew members.

"Jingle Bells, Eight-Inch Shells, Loading empty brass - You can take your f...ing Christmas, and shove it up your A**" (USS Canberra, Christmas '67, stand-down off 'Nam to reload, re-arm, and refuel - then "Turn-to, Commence Ship's Work!"

- Sailors will understand - Sand-Crabs like you won't.

Darlene V. Thomas's picture

Really????

What you don't seem to get Claire, is that whether someone got their gun legally, or not....If a person wants a gun bad enough, they will get one....blaming the gun, or the NRA, is ridiculous! What about all the people who are mugged, at knife point, every day, should we force CUTCO to close it's doors, and remove all knives from people's homes, and restaurants? Guns do not kill people, people kill people!!!!

Mark Elliott's picture

Doctors kill people more

Doctors kill people more frequently than guns! The CDC has tha stats to prove it...

KRIS KUCERA's picture

Yeah, those damn doctors.

Who needs 'em? . . .

Wow, the holiday nuts are served.

AL PELLETIER's picture

And I might add

"Guns don't kill deer, People kill deer". Without my BOLT ACTION 30-06 with a 5 ROUND CLIP I wouldn't go deer hunting.
With this rifle It would be imposable to mow down 26 little hopping and skipping deer in less then 10 minutes, but for home defense it's plenty. Get my drift?

Jeff Johnson's picture

without you, your bolt action

without you, your bolt action 30-06 would sit in the cabinet and rust. Unless the mind control ammunition forced you to get up, drive to your favorite spot and spend the day outside pursuing Bambi.

Jeff Johnson's picture

not the point

Al, Just to classify myself a little, I own a deer rifle: 7 round internal magazine. Semi-Automatic Shotgun, 5-shells, (7 if I remove the plug) and a handgun (revolver) 6 rounds. I'm not an "Assault Weapon" owner. (duh... every weapon is an assault weapon) Owning a weapon with a high-capacity clip has very little to do with hunting or home protection. Nor does the second amendment...

The Second amendment is written to form a national militia, and let it's citizens bear arms to protect themselves against a tyrannical government. 250,000,000 gun owners, is just another step in the "checks-and-balances" of our government.

The first step of any tyrant, dictator, emperor... supreme leader, is to disarm his citizens. If only the police and military have weapons, there will be no revolution unless it comes from the military. (the citizens get the worst of it no matter what.)

Personally, I don't trust the government enough to give up my weapons. The way the government is trending... trying to make more and more every-day decisions for me... taking away more and more of my rights... concerns me enough to keep a wary eye on gun control laws.

We all know that no one uses an AR-15 or an MP-5 to hunt. To bring up hunting and the second amendment in the same sentence is assenine. (I just did it myself! HA!)

Lastly, you have a better chance of being struck by lightning than being shot by an assault-rifle. Most murders are committed by handgun. A semi-Auto handgun. Whether it holds 20 rounds or just 6... you're still just as dead, and I'll argue that I can bang off 6 rounds in my revolver just as quick as that Glock so as not make a difference.

This incident is probably a mental health issue. Yup... Mentally ill people have access to guns, both legally and illegally. They also have access to cars, drugs, and a million other items that could be used in an assault. How do we take away all of those items too?

 's picture

WELL stated! The only "need"

WELL stated! The only "need" for high capacity magazines for firearms is my desire to have more rounds available so I can see how fast I can shoot as many as I want down range accurately. That is most reasonable, law-abiding and responsibly using gun enthusiasts' desire. That is my pursuit of happiness, protected by the Declaration of Independence, enabled and further protected by the U.S. Constitution. So long as I have not been a menace to society, have a precluding mental condition or criminal record, it is mere opinion as to the need for a particular amount of ammo one can have/use in one magazine at any given time. Further, what happens with the ALREADY high capacity magazines? Outlaw them? Well, then anyone who supports such a measure is only making a criminal of someone when there was none originally.

RONALD RIML's picture

Sorry, Tony - No Constitutional Guarantee there.

Tony Croteau writes: "That is my pursuit of happiness, protected by the Declaration of Independence, enabled and further protected by the U.S. Constitution."

"Pursuit of Happiness" may be mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, but there is no Constitutional protection nor guarantee to it.

You might seriously consider taking the money you've wasted on guns and ammo and spend it on getting a decent education regarding American Government and Constitutional Law.

AL PELLETIER's picture

Well Jeff

Sounds like your perfectly satisfied with the status quo. I'm not! Sometimes I feel like we're all living in 1800 Tombstone Arizona. You know Jeff, killings dwindled down in the old west when yahoos had to check in there side arms at the sheriffs office when they came into town.

Jeff Johnson's picture

I'm not satisfied by the

I'm not satisfied by the status quo... in fact, I'm quite concerned about the way government is going. They're refusing me more and more of my rights according to the constitution, and are trying to make more day-to-day decisions for me on how to spend my money.

You said it yourself in your statement about yahoos... perhaps many of those checking their guns were a little outside the law? I'm guessing your average citizen with a gun didn't go about trying to shoot anyone.

I still believe that the vast majority of weapon owners are completely law-abiding citizens, and shouldn't be punished for the extremely small minority of people abusing their ability to own weapons

RONALD RIML's picture

Here's what'cha need - with a 32 round snail drum magazine!!!

This was one of my 'Collecting Achievements' back in 'the day.....' Ah, that I had to eventually grow up.....all gone.....

Nothing like a WW-1 'Artillery' Luger with an 8" barrel, shoulder stock holster, and a 32 round snail-drum magazine - especially if you could get the 'loading tool' required to get all the rounds in. My, my my...... I remember the quickening pulse, beating heart, shortness of breath, light-headedness... To hell with buying the kids food for a year or two...

Yep - I know what these Gun Folks are going through now. And the terror that us Lib'ruls would dare pry these sweet treasures outa their cold, dead fingerz....


AL PELLETIER's picture

Such a great cliche'

Darlene if I read of hear that stupid cliche' one more time I think I'm gonna puke!!! As long as that's the best people can come up with NOTHING WILL CHANGE. DAH!

CLAIRE GAMACHE's picture

Your tax dollars at work

What a good use of tax dollars to have law enforcement outside for 6 hours while this guys plays cowboy games with his gun. Thank goodness his right to do this is protected. We should make sure he can go out and get a bigger gun next time. Or maybe we could have sane gun laws that require background checks for all sales.

Darlene V. Thomas's picture

Stand-off...

Maybe you shouldn't comment on stories you know nothing about...This man, and his family are well respected members of this community...people have issues sometimes, and things get out of hand...I am just happy that no one was hurt, and maybe because they were outside for 6 hours, is WHY, no one was hurt. And as a Minot taxpayer, and neighbor of less than a quarter mile, I for one do not mind at all, and think that my money is well spent here. I also personally know this man, and his family, and think you need not judge anyone. And further more.....I guarantee he had a background check, and passed with flying colors!

Kim Waite's picture

He was so nice

that he grabbed his gun and started shooting inside his house! Yes, all nice guys act this way. No mental issues there. Nope. Let's just ignore the 800lb gorilla in the room, shall we!

He no longer has the ability to pass a background check because he's proven mental instability. No guns for him going forward is a great plan!

CLAIRE GAMACHE's picture

People have issues

Things certainly do get out of hand sometimes. All you have to do is look at the list of victims of gun violence in this country to know the extent of it. That's why we need to get guns out of the hands of the general public especially the most dangerous ones. I don't know what his issues are or what the Newtown shooter's issues were but I do know we should try to minimize not maximize the most destructive effects of these issues.

Mark Elliott's picture

Ever look at the stats of how

Ever look at the stats of how many Americans die at the hands of their doctors??

 's picture

Out of the hands of the

Out of the hands of the general public, huh?

And what? let the Military and Law Enforcement be the only ones who can have them?

To that I say a loud and emphatic NO!

Just like everyday decent people can half a bad day so can the Police and Military and who's going to protect you when that happens? Just because they're specially trained doesn't make them immune to such events

Allowing the Military and Law Enforcement agencies access to firearms while disarming the general population is nothing but pure lunacy

 's picture

Sure, Madame

Get guns out of the hands of the general public. Let's get them out of the hands of criminals and whackos first.

Guns, not matter how hard you try to demonize them, are very safe in the hands of 99.9% of the general public. Guns do not shoot people. People shoot people.

There are 310 million people in America and at any given time, some are off their rocker. Solve that problem, and you'll stop mass murder.

RONALD RIML's picture

Many of the 'General Public' become Criminals

because of their illegal activity with guns.

KRIS KUCERA's picture

Fantasy Land

"Solve" mental illness and mass murder will stop? Wouldn't reducing the amount and accessibility of guns be an easier, more doable tack, Bob? No, we'll just "solve" mental illness. I imagine they have a pill(s) for that?

There's mentally ill in every country, but unlike in America, they don't have easy -- if any -- access to AR-15s and multitudes of other guns. It really is that simple, Bob, but delude yourself if you must.

I saw your Cronkite bashing too somewhere else in the SJ. Wow, dude. Ever stop to think that if Johnson & Westmorland hadn't declared their "success offensive," or if Johnson hadn't said, on the deck of the USS Enterprise just weeks before the Tet Offensive, that the war wouldn't go on "many more nights," Kronkite, the press, and the American people wouldn't have felt so bamboozled over the shocking images from the Tet Offensive?

And to think Dubya did the same exact stupid thing.

But sure, blame the press (Kronkite?), not our elected leaders and appointed generals who lie in our faces. "We will, in fact, be greeted as liberators." Sure, Dick, sure.

We did ultimately win the Tet Offensive, yes. But it was the beginning of the end of the American public being kept in the dark about our military leaders' hubris and duplicity.

Actually, considering the disastrous Iraq War of choice, history repeated itself anyway. We shall never learn.

 's picture

You missed my point, Kris

No, I don't believe that mental illness will be "solved." There is no magic pill. As long as there is mental illness out there amongst the general population, we will always run the risk of horrific mass murder. Taking guns away from Americans is not the answer.

In short, there is no answer when there are 310 million people living in America.

KRIS KUCERA's picture

Bob, your point is bunk. I didn't miss it. I was saddened by it.

If it's simply a matter of population, which it is most certainly not, why does Japan, with nearly half the population of the US, only have about 10 gun-related homicides on average per year, compared to America's 8,500 in 2011 alone? Two highly developed, wealthy nations, one with serious gun control, one without barely any.

The answer my friend isn't blowing in the wind. The answer is we have too many frickin' guns, too easy access to them in America, and a culture (including the movie and video game industries) that glorifies the gun in all its orgasmic Freudian power.

We also have too many folks like you -- and you're educated, making your delusion even more disconcerting to me -- that willfully disregard statistical facts (88 guns per 100 Americans) and common sense (citizens don't need AR-15s, extended clips, and hollow point bullets -- period).

Now tell me why they do, please? It's their right? What about the victims' rights? Or am I "politicizing" the issue? I think not.

I have kids. And Lisbon High School, like several other towns' schools recently, just got a gun threat on Thursday night. But we don't have a gun problem, man?

I now return you to DenialTV -- all denial, all the time.

 's picture

Japan?

How is Japan like the United States?

The Japanese believe in work. About 40% of the United States belief in loafing. Some use guns to make an easy buck. How many of the guns used in homocides were legally obtained by the shooter.

Wealthy nations? Broke is more like it. Borrowed to the hilt.

One of the reasons I believe in keeping the government's hands off our law abiding citizens guns (of any type) is liberal creeping incrementalism. First, assault weapons, then another type, then, everything. It's right out of the classic liberal playbook.

Take away the threat of a gun toting citizen, and the crooks will go into a frenzy of crime.

If you think Newtown would have been prevented if the citizenry would have been disarmed, you are badly mistaken.

RONALD RIML's picture

Newtown wouldn't have occurred had Adam Lanza

not been trained to shoot his mother's firearms, which he later murdered her to obtain.

That's the threat of one gun-toting citizen we sure as hell never needed. Why do you love his mother's guns more than those 20 children and six teachers shot in cold blood??

Talk about moral loafing.

KRIS KUCERA's picture

How's the view from your ivory tower, Bob.

4 out of 10 Americans are loafers? (Are you kindly rounding down from 47%?) Enjoy your tee time with Mr. Romney, Ms. Rand, and Mr. LaPierre. Or maybe play in a fivesome by adding Paul Ryan, who I'm sure says he's a 12 handicapper when he's really a 27.

If our nation's debt is so devastatingly crippling in the now, why are investors still rapidly buying US Treasury bonds? If we're doomed, what smart investor would purchase a turd? Market forces, right? Capitalism, nay? Explain.

No, no, China only owns 8% of our debt, nice try. So start scheming a new obfuscating answer . . . now.

Have you seen what austerity has wrought in Europe? In order to save the village, we had to destroy it?

The time to save and cut debt is during a boom. Not during a bust. Is it really that complicated?

Don't spend = More jobs. ??? Bartering? How many chickens you got? I got a goat that's not baaaaaad.

Wow, brother, wow. Merry Christmas to you.

"Can't you see?
It all makes perfect sense.
Expressed in dollars and cents,
pounds, shillings, and pence.
Can't you see?
It all makes perfect sense."

-Roger Waters

Kim Waite's picture

No one is taking your existing guns away!

Jesus. Stop spreading this lie. What people are asking for is: going forward, future sales of clips & semi-automatic/assault weapons must not be sold.

You can keep your arsenal for crying out loud. But! I say going forward if you commit a violent crime (with or without a gun!) then your right to guns shall be taken away, because those kinds of crimes are proof that one is mentally unstable to own or possess a gun!

Sounds reasonable to me. If you never commit a crime and only use your guns for hunting & target practice, then you shall own your guns until your death.

Jeff Johnson's picture

illegal

Just a thought...
It frightens me that you all think it's OK for the government to make restrictions on firearms.
Without knowing for sure, I'll bet the citizens under the control of Stalin, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Kim Jong Il, Hitler, Mao Tze Tung, Slobodan Milosevitch, _________ insert your favorite supreme leader here... Didn't say. "Gee! it's a really good idea that we turn in all our weapons, because the government sure seems to have our best interest in mind!"

KRIS KUCERA's picture

Another Hitler reference! Well done! Two in the same blog!

And Pol Pot too? Wow, the despots are alive and well.

I shall relish Obama's next 4 years, knowing it pains you and your right-wing buddies so much.

The Pirate still owes me lunch, I might add.

Kim Waite's picture

It frightens me Jeff

that you're fine with raw milk being highly regulated, traffic laws, drugs of all kinds being regulated, but when it comes to guns, you don't want any regulations! Yesiree, anyone with any mental disorder can buy a gun with a 2 minute online check (and if bought at a gun show....then no background check at all!), but want to sell raw milk to the community?.....you will be thrown to the ground with a baton & jackboot at your head!

RONALD RIML's picture

That's it - play the 'Boogie Man' Card

How difficult was it for U.S. Forces to go from house to house in Iraq and smoke out weapons and insurgents???

Not 'too' if you don't need to be gentle.

KRIS KUCERA's picture

Cronkite.

Oops. Me no smart.

RONALD RIML's picture

And this guy needed a gun why, Bob???

So he could keep the State Police busy for six hours???

He's damn lucky he didn't end up in a mortuary. Guns do shoot people - intent doesn't matter. I picked up the pieces for twenty years.

GARY SAVARD's picture

Adolphe Hitler started out by

Adolphe Hitler started out by disarming his general population, also. Smart move on his part. Good luck with that happening here. Even Obama and his minions don't have the firepower to repeal the second amendment. People that are intent on killing other people will kill, period. Timothy McVey did a good job with a box truck, some fertilizer, and other odds and ends. Not a gun in sight.

Kim Waite's picture

It's paranoid

freaks such as yourself that makes this nation unsafe. No one is going to take your guns away. Future gun sales will be regulated, however. No one but the paranoid freaks of the nation are claiming that Obama is going for his 3rd term as president and it's causing their crazy friends to become violent idiotic preppers!

I say the first thing is to ban right wing radio in it's current form. Bring in rational republicans from years past who have a conscience and rationality PLEASE!

By the way, the Internet was in it's infancy when McVeigh was purchasing loads of fertilizer. I think with today's technology, software can detect when ONE person is buying anything in volumes (whether it's guns, ammo, stuff to make bombs, etc!). New software needs to be developed for this purpose: tracking individuals. If you think this is taking your rights away, pay attention to the ads on every page of the Internet you're on that has them. The ads reflect what you're searching for and buying!

Jeff Johnson's picture

fourth amendment

Kim... Ban right wing radio? On what cause? Because it's popular, and sponsors pay to advertise on it because people listen? Please explain to me why liberal radio talk shows have never made it financially? Because people don't listen to it. Al Franken tried to make it work and bombed. The only way liberal radio makes it is if it's sponsored by the government. (NPR) Personally, I think Rush Limbaugh is a douche, but advertisers pay huge money to have commercials on his show, because it's so popular.

Also... there's this small thing called the 4th amendment. That's the reason why the government can track a cow infected with Mad Cow Disease to and from every stockyard it's been, yet won't track your phone calls, internet usage, or purchases. (damn... wait... Bush and Obama kind of trampled that one, didn't they?)

Kim Waite's picture

By the way Jeff, have you 2nd Amendmenters

ever bothered to read Article IV, Section 4 of the US Constitution??? If not, here's what it states:

Section 4.

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

Against DOMESTIC VIOLENCE?

Now, what do you suppose that means? I'll tell you what it means: it means YOU 2ND AMENDMENTERS (made up word) DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO FORCEFULLY TAKE OVER WITH YOUR GUNS! You would be creating domestic violence against the state and the Forefathers wanted to make sure every State had a National Guard (a WELL-REGULATED ARMED MILITIA! Not a bunch of Budweiser drinking fools with semi-automatic rifles because they're military wannabees!) to defend ITSELF from YOU WACKOS.

No matter how much you and Wayne Lapierre screech about guns: you all are not allowed to take up arms against the government (that would be TREASON!).

Tell Glenn Beck this, would ya? He's using his national microphone every day to promote fear so people like yourself will commit treason!

KRIS KUCERA's picture

Your avatar image is a self portrait, right?

One can only presume so, based on your posts. I hope you washed your hair twice after the photo shoot. Maybe thrice.

No, you can't ban right-wing talk radio. We agree on something. Or should I say, One thing.

Liberal radio fails because liberals would rather listen to Baroque classical or to the Grateful Dead, or read classical literature or the New Yorker, or go for a nature walk, or make a fancy dinner with local food, or do ANYTHING but listen to rabid vitriol all day long from total hypocrites.

Rush, Glenn, et al. merely foment the hate. Enjoy it. It suits you and yours well.

Kim Waite's picture

Yup. Ban them. Why?

Because the likes of Glenn Beck and others are using their national microphones to drum up false fears and are causing mental health deterioration in this country!

They're acting like a terrorist group. They're popular with the low-information Neanderthals of the nation who would rather use a gun to settle a dispute instead of words and rationality.

We can track Mad Cow disease but the not manufacturing, purchasing of, and selling of guns??????? It would be nice to see who is stockpiling weapons, you know, the guy who listens to Glenn Beck and who is also stocking up on food with his Foodinsurance.com crap!

Wingnuts. Every. Last. One. Of. Them.

They fear Obama but allowed George Bush to wreck the very nation they say they love!

Idiots.

KRIS KUCERA's picture

Testify! Kim.

You go, girl. *snapping fingers*

Kim Waite's picture

Say it!

Say it loud on the mountain top, woman! :D Oh snap.

KRIS KUCERA's picture

Another classless "Hitler" reference. How quaint.

Brought to you Gary and the Obama is Hitler and/or the Antichrist SuperPAC.

GARY SAVARD's picture

Kris, I never said Obama was

Kris, I never said Obama was another Hitler, not even close. If you want to throw crap at the wall, make sure it is going to stick first, please.

Kim Waite's picture

Speaking of Hitler....

....did you happen to notice how much Wayne Lapierre (leader of the nation's gun dealer lobbyist group, the NRA!) looks like Hitler? If he had a Hitler mustache he would be a dead ringer for the guy! He has the same attitude as Hitler also.

GARY SAVARD's picture

...And when all guns become

...And when all guns become illegal, only illegals will have guns. Pray for the simple minded, Jesus.

KRIS KUCERA's picture

Yes, Jesus was pro-gun, er, -sword

"I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" -Gospel of Matthew 10:34

Maybe it was gift? Personally, I want an Elf on the Shelf instead.

Yes, those damn illegals, of which your ancestors once were. You think the Native Americans wanted 'em here? Indians had a good thing going till we came and screwed it all up.

Kim Waite's picture

Not all guns will be illegal.

Stop spreading lies and false fears!

KRIS KUCERA's picture

Not even close?

Than why the Hitler reference, Gary? Are you familiar with post hoc ergo propter hoc? Probably not, no.

Kim Waite's picture

Kris, would that be akin

to Glenn Beck claiming that since Obama was in Copenhagen and there's a Copenhagen chewing tobacco brand that that means Obama was proving he's cancer?

Glenn Beck really came up with this conclusion on the air and you know all his low-information brain-dead worshipers just ate it up!

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