LePage wants to eliminate Maine's income tax

AUGUSTA — In an hourlong briefing to media Monday, Republican Gov. Paul LePage said his goal, if re-elected in November, would be to eliminate the state's personal income taxes entirely by the end of his second term.

File photo

Gov. Paul LePage

LePage invited members of the press to the official governor's residence, the Blaine House, to unveil an analysis created by Travis Brown, of the website howmoneywalks.com.  

Brown was also on hand to detail his study of 15 years worth of Internal Revenue Service and U.S. Census Bureau data that he says shows states with lower or no income taxes are drawing those with wealth away from other states.

"You can see where the wealth goes," LePage said. "And everybody tells me, and I hear it all the time, 'Let's tax the rich.' If we are going to tax the rich, I ought to be the governor of Texas or the governor of Florida because that's where the rich are going."

Brown said that over the past 15 years, Maine has picked up $1.6 billion in tax revenue from people who have moved here but that's only half of what New Hampshire, which has no personal income tax, picked up over the same period.

"It could be much better," Brown said. He also said that the data also showed that over the same 15-year period, Maine lost $700 million from those who moved to Florida.

Brown said the nine states that have no state income taxes showed a collective gain of $146 billion. He said the nine states with the highest personal income tax rates lost more than $100 billion over the same period.

LePage called his ideas for eliminating the state income tax a "long-term program."

"My goal is, while I'm governor, and if I can get re-elected to a second term, that at the end of the second term we would have no income taxes in the state — God willing," LePage said. He went on to criticize the Democratic majority in the Legislature for not joining him in the effort.

"Unfortunately, with the current composition across the street, a lot of work needs to be done to achieve that," LePage said. The Blaine House is on the opposite side of Capital Street from the State House in Augusta.

He said his current budget proposal does not address the loss of revenue but he is, "just fighting to not have a tax increase this year." 

LePage also said he would be more supportive of a state tax reform proposal offered by a bipartisan group of 11 legislators, known as the Gang of 11, if it was revenue neutral.

The plan offered earlier this month would cut the state's personal income tax dramatically but it does so, in part, by increasing and expanding the state's sales tax. The measure aims to collect more revenue from those who are nonresidents to Maine and in total raises an additional $150 million.

The Gang of 11 plan increases the sales tax from 5 percent to 6 percent and applies it to nearly all sales in Maine. The measure also contains some property tax relief by increasing the state's homestead tax exemption by exempting the first $50,000 of property valuation on a primary residence from property taxes — the current exemption is $10,000.

Proponents have said the reform is revenue neutral or even revenue negative when it comes to the amount of taxes being collected from Maine people.

"It's clear that if you just compare Florida against Maine, the fact that we have an income tax at all is a massive disadvantage," LePage said. "I'm saying revenue neutral is the key that we should be starting out to look for but ultimately it's to have no income tax, either personal or corporate."

LePage reaffirmed his position that he was opposed to increasing any state taxes and defended his budget proposal, which has been criticized by Democrats for shifting costs to cities and towns.

Democrats have said cities and towns will be forced to raise property taxes to cover a loss in state revenue sharing eliminated in LePage's budget plan. But LePage reiterated Monday those were local decisions and that many cities and towns could save vast amounts by consolidating services.

Sen. Seth Goodall, D-Richmond, the Senate majority leader and a member of the Gang of 11, said the property tax relief in that proposal was significant. On average, the savings for a home in Lewiston would be about $800 a year, Goodall said.

Goodall said the state's current sales tax structure was set up in a way that meant Maine collected less revenue from tourists than other states and increasing that would help offset the income tax reduction proposed in the Gang of 11's plan.

"We have the opportunity to lower the tax burden on Mainers and export that to guests and second-home owners," Goodall said. "The ones who can afford it."

Goodall also noted that Maine was benefiting from retirees who are moving here, and Brown's analysis also suggests that. 

During his briefing, LePage seemed to agree that some Mainers would relocate to other states for a warmer climate in retirement regardless, but noted there were other parts of the country — and even North America — that were seeing in-migrations of wealth far exceeding Maine's that were not in warmer climates, including New Hampshire and even Quebec province.

He also said Brown's analysis focuses on income tax revenue from those still working and not from retirees. 

But Democrats rebutted the notion that young families with skilled breadwinners were the people relocating to Florida to seek an income tax shelter.

"They're just not," Goodall said. He also said it was frustrating that LePage seemed to be dismissive of any bills coming out of the Legislature that didn't do everything the governor wanted, even though many of them incorporated things LePage supported.

Bipartisan bills, including ones that covered tax reform, paying the state's hospital debt, workforce development and energy policy, were all being panned by LePage, Goodall said.

"At some point, you have to start governing by consensus and the governor needs to remember when you come here as governor, you are here to govern for all the people of Maine, not just one party or the other, " Goodall said.

When asked how he expected to achieve his plan, if Democrats remained in control of the Legislature, LePage said, "I never give up, I always hope there is a chance that they will learn."


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David Pinkham's picture

Never ceases to amaze me

the personal attacks that come from the simple presentation of information.

OK RIml. Native Mainer; my parents were born here; all of my grandparents were born here. As a matter of fact, we go back to about 1750. Got my first job the summer I turned 14, so been paying taxes here for a long time. Except for the time I served in the military during a war, I've always lived here.

I never said I agreed with or even voted for Lepage. Just gave you some facts to consider. It's really kinda sad, but there are wingnuts who would argue with Lepage if he claimed the sky was blue. Lemmings.

At least he has two things that past Democrat and Independent Governors, and most of the current legislature, are lacking. If Obama ever takes him up on his offer for intimacy, he'll be able to take a peek at em for himself.


So who wins

The very rich of course!! taxes have to be made up somewhere and that is property taxes which will soar sky high but the millionaire can rest assured that he will no longer have to pay taxes on the hundreds of thousands he earns no we will pay it for him! Lepage again shows one thing that we need more mental institutions.

Gerald Weinand's picture

Brown's data also showed that

Brown's data also showed that $206 million of income moved from New Hampshire to Maine, despite the differing income tax rates. See this map and click on Maine:


John Goddard's picture


Those Mainers that voted for this clueless politician, please, do not make the same mistake twice, hoping for a different result... Don't vote for him based for what he says, but for what he has done...

Nationwide, they have an agenda, and it is not in our workers, retires, or our futures interest.

One thing is for certain, when any GOP/ Tea Party Politician speaks truthfully, " We can not trust the Government", remember it is they, themselves that can not be trusted....They can't hide from their own history.

Since 2010, The proof is nationwide... Look at their record... Than decide if their agenda is based on "our interests, and well being" You will find that it is not...

They ran on creating jobs. Yet all they have done is cut ,cut, cut..

Of course, talking about it is one thing, showing up and voting is another. Voting is a right of all of ours, until they try and take that away too. Oh, wait, they have try ed to do that...

Elections have consequences. Proof is in the past, and presently being witnessed by all of us.

 's picture

Excellent, thoughtful comment

Walker in Wisconsin is driving that state into last place among the states in almost every category
Perry in Texas has already driven that state into last place.
We will not benefit by a race to the bottom.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

He just continues to boggle the mind

Let me try and analyze his thought progression. We live in a State, which seems to be having a positive cash flow problem. We need money to pay for let's say ten things, we have enough for three. For most of his term, our Governor has fought tooth and nail for a few pet projects, with no means to pay for them. His biggest pastime is eliminating services to the elderly and poor. He is threatening to look the greatest gift horse this state has ever seen, in the mouth. In it's place, he has no alternative plan and more cuts to medicaid are forthcoming.
Now he wants to gamble on the States biggest money generating system, the "Tourist Industry".
Senior citizens who live in Maine and summer in Florida, should not be thought of as a bad commodity. Many of them are lifelong residents who choose to spend half the year elsewhere. In most cases, taxes play little to no role in this decision.
I never majored in the "Hospitality" field when I was in college, but I can tell you, coming right out and stating that hitting the tourist to compensate for the elimination of income taxes, is somewhat unappealing. If I were a tourist and heard that, I'm going elsewhere.
Paul LePage is nothing but a Republican, a desperate Republican. He is grasping at anything that he thinks would appeal to voters. In his warped outlook on things, he see's repealing the income tax as being a draw for the State. If he were to look at the big picture he would see, we are in no condition to eliminate any tax at this time. To suggest otherwise is just plain irresponsible........................

 's picture

He didn't reform welfare,in

He didn't reform welfare,in fact found out he has no control over it,didnt attract business,didnt create jobs,and has shown himself to be a bully,and unstable.How does he think hes going to get a second term?Why he will just eliminate state sales tax.

JERRY ARIPEZ's picture

His brain is fried

From all that reefer madness and Boones Farm in the late 60's and 70's cooked his brain. That is why he was just a store manager of a crappy store with a college degree. I will give him that much, his buddy Scott Walker from WI, never made it out of college at Marquette....

JERRY ARIPEZ's picture

Brown...Leaves out the other factors...and lots more....

15-year period, Maine lost $700 million from those who moved to Florida.

Moved for retirement like it has been for generations for the warmth after living in the cold all those years. Moved away because of jobs and careers.....Not for running away from taxes as one person put it...

That $140 Billion in 15 years for 9 states was raised...Break it out and that is 1.1 bill a year divided per 9....but that includes states that out number Maine population and large like Texas, just for one, that the most went to . So in contrast it doesn't give you the actually net, so again ME would be near or at a loss from what it takes in from income annually.
The nine states are Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, Wyoming, New Hampshire and Tennessee.

Washington's State Budget Shortfall Expected To Be $1.25 Billion


Below are the 10 states that are projecting the largest shortfalls for FY 2012.

State Projected FY 2012 shortfall
(in millions of dollars)
California $21,300
Illinois 17,000
New Jersey 10,500
Texas 10,000
New York 8,200
Connecticut 3,800
Minnesota 3,800
North Carolina 3,000
Ohio 3,000
Florida (tie) 2,500
Oregon (tie) 2,500
Phil Oliff, a policy analyst at the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, says that states will have to undertake a number of measures to bring their budgets out of the red. "States are facing a very significant fiscal problem," he says. "The problem states are facing is really too big for any single solution." Those solutions include tactics like raising taxes, cutting spending, and drawing on reserves—all of which are potentially risky and could further threaten recovery.

Rank: 13 (Previous Rank: N/A)
Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 10.40%
Total gap: $1.2 billion
Gap before budget was approved: $468 million
Additional midyear gap: $700 million

Rank: 4 (Previous Rank: 3)
Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 21.50%
Total gap: $5.5 billion
Gap before budget was approved: $3.4 billion
Additional midyear gap: $2.1 billion

Rank: 5 (Previous Rank: 4)
Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 19.60%
Total gap: $1.4 billion
Gap before budget was approved: $898 million
Additional midyear gap: $536 million

New Hampshire
Rank: 19 (Previous Rank: 13)
Budget gap (as a % of the total budget): 8%
Total gap: $250 million
Gap before budget was approved: $200 million
Additional midyear gap: $50 million

more of those 9 states are in dire straits today....

Gerald Weinand's picture

Only one of those nine states

Only one of those nine states - Texas - sends more tax dollars to Washington, D.C. than it receives in federal money.

JERRY ARIPEZ's picture

That was a 2005 but I did find a 2012


Whereas Texas received .91 per 1 dollar

So for 2012 that is true....I stand corrected...

JERRY ARIPEZ's picture

Before you shoot, you should aim...fact check...please....


According to the analysis, Texans paid about $147 billion in federal taxes in 2005 while the state received $149 billion in federal spending. That year, 33 other states also got, as Maddow put it, more money back than residents paid in.


Federal spending received for every tax dollar paid: $0.85
Rank: 33
Rank in 2005: 35
Federal spending received for every tax dollar paid per capita: $1.19

David Pinkham's picture

Get real, "progressives"!

Maine not only taxes earned income, it taxes the retirement income, which, by the way, was already taxed when it was earned.

Why do you think cops, firemen, teachers and military retirees fly south? All you have to do is live 6 months and a day in Florida, and you avoid Maine income tax. Many of those native Mainers would spend at least another three months here, paying taxes on goods and services, if not for the huge hit on the fixed income. (Think about it, who in his right mind would want to spend any more than January and February in Florida ?)

From 1977 - 2010 Maine moved from 23rd to 9th highest in tax burden. In those 33 years we had one Republican Governor.

You do the math.

RONALD RIML's picture

Easy answer - most aren't smart enough to move to Maine!!!

David Pinkham asks: "Why do you think cops, firemen, teachers and military retirees fly south?"

Sure - go down to Florida or one of the other southern states with an higher than average violent crime rates - just my cup of tea after policing idiots near Chicago for twenty years.

Like Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes said: "Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society" - I'll live in civilized Maine, thank you very much. And we can note that Mr. Pinkham claims to still live in Maine, though I doubt very highly he has an anchor welded to his posterior......

MARK GRAVEL's picture

If the Governor can execute

If the Governor can execute to his plan, I will bring my business to Maine in a NY second.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Have you ever owned your own

Have you ever owned your own business?

I would venture to say no since you are displaying you jealous side.

RONALD RIML's picture

Gravel's replying to himself - Cool!!!


MARK GRAVEL's picture

I've been suffering from

I've been suffering from priapism ever since I read LaPage wants to eliminate personal income tax. The sooner the better.

RONALD RIML's picture


Reveling in it is more like it.......

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Eliminating the personal

Eliminating the personal income tax is the greatest thing that can happen to Maine :-)

RONALD RIML's picture

Don't bother.....

You'll like us only for your free-loading.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

How so, I’ve always paid more

How so, I’ve always paid more into the system than I take out. The amount of tax I pay per year is greater than what 50% of the working population make in a year. I would be a net asset to Maine.

 's picture

Nothing but...

...a political ploy. He is his own worst enemy and not believable.

 's picture

We cant pay DHHS after

We cant pay DHHS after June,we cant afford to pay the Hospitals,we cant afford the state welfare programs,our roads are a mess,we cant afford public housing.BUT LETS CUT INCOME TAX. Wait,didnt he say he was going to bring thousands of jobs,new business,cut the welfare rolls,and end unemployment in his FIRST term.None of that came about.Now he thinks we are gullible enough to reelect him for a second term??!! Yep,everybody wants a Governor who is a bully,and has no self control.


Unfortunately Sydney, there are alot of idiots out there that view him as a hero...he has done nothing in this term as Gov. so why would anyone with half a brain believe him now...because it's the people with half a brain that vote for him...I like how he said it would be a long term plan...I bet there is no plan in that half wits head, just a bunch of lies...

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Perhaps it is these halfwit’s

Perhaps it is these halfwit’s who have been paying the bills for decades. I like the concept of you want it, you pay for it.

 's picture

Absolutely true,Linda.His

Absolutely true,Linda.His only long term plans are to make big empty promises,in order to be re-eleted.

JERRY ARIPEZ's picture

Where's the beef?

Linda I mean, could any of these teabaggers/Repubs provide a list of anything that LePage has provided to the state that has created any benefit for the state or we get instead smoke screens?

We will be able to tell by how many have nothing by the Disagree markers....

Please baggers do provide a list, I am very curious as to see what you have...

{Crickets while we wait}

JERRY ARIPEZ's picture

Well one and counting

So we have one brain dead unresponsive waste of skin so far....
please indulge us with what do you have or think you know ?

JERRY ARIPEZ's picture

They have an R

That is all it takes for those simpletons..and they deny it like science with now today 97% scientist saying that climate change is very real, be very afraid. You can give them the facts like here in this thread with backup links and they disagree for the sake of defending the R instead of using critical thinking or any logic.....

Jim Cyr's picture

Mr.Aripez, Yes

climate change is real ! It has been going on for millions of years. Now, man made is a different story and certainly unproven ! What happened to your "critical thinking"? The Pacific ocean is getting cooler while the Atlantic is warming up just a repeat as has happened in the 1950's.

JERRY ARIPEZ's picture

Jimbo, look beyond your nose, don't insult me, Rev...

The ice caps and glaciers are nearly gone, the oceans have risen higher and faster than ever recorded or predicted. The carbons have exceeded the limits beyond being safe. We are not talking El Nino here.

For the first time in human history, the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has reached 400 parts per million (ppm). The arrival at this threshold represents a powerful symbol of the growing human influence on the Earth’s climate.


You know Jim the price of educating is costly, but ignorance can cost so much more.

Jim Cyr's picture

Mr.Aripez, no insult,

and what was the carbon dioxide level when the Great lakes were created and I don't believe for one minute there were any level then and we were under a mile of ice here in Maine. What caused that great climate change then ? We also visit the ocean at Harpswell, as we have since the 50's and I have yet to notice any variation in the tidals. Man-Made climate change is a curve ball to keep us occupied away from the real current problems that are strangling our families and futures.

JERRY ARIPEZ's picture

Jim did you ever even consider?

That your curveball analogy may be the Oil and Gas industries deflection of the environment being attacked for their lust for money and profit shareholders and use the cover of jobs? Now I know as you, that the Androscoggin was the filthiest, raunchy smelling river in my days of growing up. Until Nixon had the Dept of the EPA created, we now have clean water and air for decades.

Now research how the Kochs industries have manipulated lawmakers to change laws and in those states the streams and rivers are again returning to the way it was. Look further into fracking as again laws allow those same industries to pump anything of toxic,caustic materials in the bedrock and wells and homes are invaded with burning water and toxic fumes? Kochs family goes back to Stalin in profits and destroying lives.




Sorry Jim the deflection is those industries with their heart warm commercials about natural gas and the repubs screaming about closing the EPA like Perry, Walker and all of those politicians on the big oil/gas teats. Now that is the curveball you are not taking a closer look at to swing at.

JERRY ARIPEZ's picture

The cases of denial are outweighed by the many

In agreement with climate models, satellite data and hydrographic observations show that sea level is not rising uniformly around the world. In some regions, rates are up to several times the global mean rise, while in other regions sea level is falling. Substantial spatial variation in rates of sea level change is also inferred from hydrographic observations.

Yes, there is strong evidence that global sea level gradually rose in the 20th century and is currently rising at an increased rate, after a period of little change between AD 0 and AD 1900. Sea level is projected to rise at an even greater rate in this century. The two major causes of global sea level rise are thermal expansion of the oceans (water expands as it warms) so is the reverse of cold and the loss of land-based ice due to increased melting.


JERRY ARIPEZ's picture

Another bites the dust...his promises are like dust in the wind.

Syd, when he is going out the door we can tell him what he told the NAACP to do.......what goes around--comes around...I'll even wash mine for him so it will taste sweet...so his lips can pucker for more....

 's picture

I will be right there beside

I will be right there beside you !!!

JERRY ARIPEZ's picture

Maine is broke, what can I do? Hmmm!

Let's see, ah yes, eliminate more revenue for the cities, towns and infrastructure to suffer longer!

This guy is brain dead, or should be....

Jim Cyr's picture

Maine is broke,

so lets just punish success and really discourage businesses from investing in Maine and it's great work force. Who is brain dead ?

JERRY ARIPEZ's picture

Bring proof and not rethoric

Research and you will find that many of those 9 states with no state taxes are in huge deficits and are having problems pulling up those bootstraps...Washington state is in billions of loss, currently....

so you want that experiment to come to ME, since you do not want to pay your fair share..I lived in CT at the time of no state tax and it failed.....

Jim Cyr's picture

Dear Mr.Apripez, with

nearly 50 million paying no income tax at all , what would be my "fair share"? And why do those states have a net gain in the work force ?

JERRY ARIPEZ's picture

No tax brings business to an extent and for how long

Beside the two states of Texas and Tennessee have increased in jobs, but how far would that expand, extend and how many companies are in competition to spread its roots into a cold environment in contrast to those others. All of this is just political noise coming from LePage, parroting Walker and others to were one litmus test is not the same in every environment of different elements. If it worked so well why didn't CT go back to the way it was with NO income tax???....I can tell you from my own experience I was in CT for 9 years, and the working boom started in 82 and died in 91 and I made tons of money and paid income tax..

JERRY ARIPEZ's picture

State Income tax - to no state tax above

addition and plus the state tax was overboard at the time and when the rule was changed everything was balanced out to adjust for the state being in the red for years...Fairfield County in those days was the richest in the Nation and even the new state income tax benefited them even much more....

MARK GRAVEL's picture

This guy is a genius to make

This guy is a genius to make people pay for the services they ask the state to provide. When everyone as skin in the game, spending is self-limiting.

JERRY ARIPEZ's picture

Save the rich, make the smaller workers pay for more, ask CT

Rep. Seth Berry of Bowdoinham, the House Democratic leader, called LePage’s remarks “more of the same tired, failed trickle-down economics that we have seen from this governor in particular and from his party generally.

“The income tax is the one tax that reflects ability to pay. The governor’s other options — sales taxes and property taxes — are very regressive,” Berry said. “What the governor is really saying is he wants to raise taxes even higher on middle-class and working families.”

CT had no income tax back until 1985, until Gov Lowell Wicker a repub all his life that ran as Ind. made CT go to taxing income to bring the state back from being broke.

Another criticism of Weicker's support for the state income tax, one rarely reported in the media, is that the new tax law benefited his wealthy supporters in Fairfield County. The new law reduced the state sales tax by two percentage points (from 8% to 6%) and increased the tax on earned income by four percentage points (from 0% to 4%), which resulted in a net tax increase for most Connecticut residents. However, two groups of residents enjoyed significant reductions in their tax bills. One was Connecticut residents who worked in another state and paid income tax to that state (mostly residents of Weicker's home county, Fairfield County, who worked in New York City). These individuals could subtract taxes paid to the other state from their Connecticut tax bill, usually resulting in no Connecticut tax on their earned income. The second favored group consisted of wealthy individuals with substantial investment income. The new tax law eliminated Connecticut's capital gains tax and dividend and interest income tax, which had taxed investment income at rates of 10% to 12%. Because investment income (like earned income) was taxed at only 4% under the new tax law, individuals with large amounts of investment income enjoyed a significant reduction in the amount of tax paid to Connecticut.[8]


MARK GRAVEL's picture

It is a fine time to make

It is a fine time to make people pay for the services they ask from the State.

Jason Theriault's picture

"I ought to be the governor of Texas or the governor of Florida"

He figured that out 4 years too late.

Steve  Dosh's picture

LePage wants to eliminate Maine's income tax

Mainers , Monday 11:30 am ish HST
How do you spell ' Lame duck ?"
A: Paul LePage • hth /s Steve
^^ haHAHhah ^^ ?


Election time already?

And conservatives are always accusing Democrats of pandering to get votes. I don't think we could beat this one. The governor has to first tell us what the state will no longer provide for us when it truly no longer has income and how people on fixed incomes are supposed to keep their homes when the property taxes go through the roof just so we can keep minimum safety services.Is he planning to disband the National Guard? And to compare Maine with other states you have to compare everything. When he can figure out how to move Boston 100 miles to the North and to give us warm weather in January and to give us Canadian health care without paying for it his plan will make sense.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

The governor would be

The governor would be righting a historical wrong.

Jim Cyr's picture

Provide for US ?

How about providing for yourself ? SPEND SPEND SPEND, TAX TAX TAX, SPEND SPEND SPEND.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

I really love the Governor’s

I really love the Governor’s idea. If you want goodies be prepared to pay higher property and or sales taxes. No more free ride.


Tax and spend

Helen Keller said "Alone we can do so little, together we can so so much". Some of us don't want to live in a community where we have to build our own roads, provide our own electricity, educate our children at home , cure our own ills, plow our own roads, fight off enemies. floods and fires on our own, etc. In other words we have gotten past the Daniel Boone way of life and want to live in a civilized society. Call us selfish if you will but I think I am speaking for a sizeable majority here. Hence we have a representative form of government that has given us roads, trains and planes, schools, colleges, and national defense and local defense against attack, help in disaster whether national or personal and laws to keep the peace. None of that is free and none of that is something an individual can provide for without community. Hence tax, tax, tax, spend, spend spend. Those who do not want to live in community are free to go and live in a cave. The rest of us want representative government.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Oh Clair come on now. The

Oh Clair come on now. The world is not falling apart in those state without personal income taxes.

RONALD RIML's picture

Texas even ranks 51st in % of adults with H.S. Diplomas!!

Those are some States - some might even recognize sibling marriage......

JERRY ARIPEZ's picture


How did you come across a photo of Mark and his cousin in the 4H Club?

MARK GRAVEL's picture

You should be ashamed of

You should be ashamed of yourself making fun of these poor souls.
Lastly, the one individual that you are claiming is in a 4H club is actually sporting a Celtics emblem.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Hey, we accept same sex

Hey, we accept same sex marriage. I’m open.

JERRY ARIPEZ's picture

First cousins

allowed to marry in Georgia....another backward redstate fed off federal assistance.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Not any worse than same sex

Not any worse than same sex marriage. I embrace freedom of choice.

JERRY ARIPEZ's picture

Large difference

Same sex produces nothing, whereas kissing cousins produce those in the picture above that Riml provided. That is why you have so many redneck redstate repubs that are faux noise parrots, walking zombies and brain dead like in Georgia and the rest of the south.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Same sex couples can aquire

Same sex couples can aquire children from a plurality from methods from adoption to artificial insemination. Come on, open your mind.

RONALD RIML's picture

Or they can entice them with candy bars like Mark does


MARK GRAVEL's picture

You need to study up on your

You need to study up on your biology. Cousin who have no history of shared relatives beyond their parents have zero probability of reproductive abnormalities.

Reproductive abnormalities surface after repeated instances of share ancestors. With each instances of offspring, recessive genes become more expressed.

JERRY ARIPEZ's picture

Again with your spin...but then again you might enjoy incest...

having children with someone with similar genetic material has risks. So, expand your gene pool. Marry a Swede. As you're probably aware, this is true. Certain populations are more likely to be carriers for a genetic mutation. For instance, people of Eastern European descent are more likely to be carriers of the abnormal cystic fibrosis gene. And, people that are related – take first cousins – are believed to share 12.5% of their genes. So, reproducing with someone in your “group” increases the probability of your child receiving two faulty copies of the gene and as a result having the disease.

There are several studies that support this. Specifically, offspring resulting from consanguineous marriages – between people that share a common ancestor, like cousins – are at a higher risk of heart disease, cystic fibrosis, childhood morbidity and early mortality.

Although consanguineous marriage is quite taboo in the US – it’s even illegal to marry your first cousin in 25 states, while in others it’s only allowed if you’re both above a certain age or unable to reproduce – over 10% of people in the world are married to a close relative. That’s almost 700 million people.

Growing up, I remember being appalled when I found out that some of my cousins had parents that were close cousins. I also remember being thankful for being spared.

But, marrying your cousin isn't appalling to everyone and even with current research on the risks – it’s still practiced. So, is it really that risky?


MARK GRAVEL's picture

Well, if you believe in Adam

Well, if you believe in Adam and Eve, then we are all inbreed.

JERRY ARIPEZ's picture

So it goes back to incest

Since Adam and Eve were the first and Cain did Able in, then Cain had to beget Eve to keep the ball a rolling? So god was what then?

JERRY ARIPEZ's picture

Well that helps

So if I am related to any and all repubs, I can go Cain on them, since they were the children of....

JERRY ARIPEZ's picture

Ya right

Woman created by a rib....that is called porking....
Hows those fables working for ya?

MARK GRAVEL's picture

No Jerry, I think you really

No Jerry, I think you really belong over on the other side of the room with the other single celled things.

RONALD RIML's picture

Agree, acordar, souhlasit, être d'accord, zustimmen, fuggin'-A..

MARK GRAVEL's picture

I can still manage to locate

I can still manage to locate the negative kudo event button. Another failed liberal policy.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

I can still manage to locate

I can still manage to locate the negative kudo event button. Another failed liberal policy.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

I can still manage to locate

I can still manage to locate the negative kudo event button. Another failed liberal policy.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

I can still manage to locate

I can still manage to locate the negative kudo event button. Another failed liberal policy.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

What a waste.

What a waste.


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