St. Joseph's demolition on hold

Russ Dillingham/Sun Journal

The interior of the former St. Joseph's Church on Main Street in Lewiston looks bare without the stained-glass windows, frescoes and organ. Plans to demolish the church and its rectory have been put on hold.

LEWISTON — Plans to demolish St. Joseph's Parish are off the table for the moment, city officials confirmed Thursday.

Russ Dillingham/Sun Journal

The interior of the former St. Joseph's Church on Main Street in Lewiston.

Russ Dillingham/Sun Journal

The interior of the former St. Joseph's Church on Main Street in Lewiston.

Russ Dillingham/Sun Journal

The interior of the former St. Joseph's Church on Main Street in Lewiston.

Russ Dillingham/Sun Journal

The interior of the former St. Joseph's Church on Main Street in Lewiston.

Russ Dillingham/Sun Journal

The interior of the former St. Joseph's Church on Main Street in Lewiston.

Russ Dillingham/Sun Journal

The interior of the former St. Joseph's Church on Main Street in Lewiston.

Russ Dillingham/Sun Journal

The interior of the former St. Joseph's Church on Main Street in Lewiston.

Russ Dillingham/Sun Journal

Photos of the empty St. Joseph's Church and rectory on Main Street in Lewiston

Central Maine Healthcare has temporarily withdrawn its application to demolish the 159-year-old church and the nearby rectory to create parking for nearby Central Maine Medical Center.

The city's Historic Preservation Review Board was scheduled to review the demolition at a meeting Thursday afternoon. That meeting was canceled.

Lewiston Director of Planning and Code Enforcement Gil Arsenault said it means the historic building is safe for now, but the hospital group could come back later with demolition plans.

"It does not mean they won't re-file and pursue the demolition," Arsenault said. "They can ask for a certificate of appropriateness, and there is no guarantee they can get it. It buys everyone some time."

Central Maine Healthcare spokesman Chuck Gill said the hospital group will use the delay to take another look at options for the site.

"Our intention is to conduct another comprehensive evaluation of all viable options for the church," Gill said. "We understand this church's significance to the community and the emotions around it, so we will look at it thoroughly. We'll conduct a comprehensive evaluation and come back in a few months, once that review is complete."

Gill said all potential uses are on the table.

"We don't know where we will end up because we are looking at all viable options," Gill said. "We won't know until we finish that work."

Central Maine Healthcare bought the 253 Main St. church and the adjacent buildings for $125,000 in May. The company filed an application to demolish the building in July.

Local residents and historic architecture buffs protested, saying the building should be preserved.

"There are some people in the community who I have communicated with who think they might be able to pull something off," Arsenault said. "Obviously, these folks own the building, so if someone wants to do something there, they'd need to work with the hospital."

According to an architectural and structural study and review of the church filed by Central Maine Healthcare, the building was constructed in the mid-1800s. Local historian Douglas Hodgkin said the building's cornerstone was lain in September 1865 and the church was consecrated in 1867.

The church itself was designed by Irish-born architect Patrick C. Keely, who went on to design more than 600 churches around the world — as well as a church in Bangor, one in Biddeford and two in Portland, according to Central Maine Healthcare's report.

Basement frescoes were added in 1877, stained-glass windows in 1917 and 12 bronze bells in 1926. It was placed on the National Historic Register in 1989.

The Catholic diocese decommissioned the church in 2009 and the frescoes and stained glass windows were removed.

staylor@sunjournal.com

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Comments

Jason Theriault's picture

My Plan, CMMC

If I was CMMC, here's what I would do:

I would say you have 1 year. Raise the $125K and the church is yours, do with it whatever you want. If you can't, in 366 days the bulldozers roll.

I think that would be fair. I mean, I don't have a problem with saving the church. If you want to save it, more power to ya. I have a problem with people telling CMMC that it can't do with it property what it wants, especially since the building hasn't been used in 4 years. I mean, the last mass was in October of 09. It's not like you haven't had time.

Brian Franck's picture

Where are the bulldozers rolling?

Hopefully to your house! They won't be heading towards St. Joseph's Church if I have any say about this! I believe the word is spelled "you", not "ya". Please don't sound like a "hick". It will give away your lack of credibility.

Jason Theriault's picture

Me too

I need a new driveway, and a bulldozer would work exceptionally for that task. So thanks for wishing me well on getting that.

Secondly, they won't use a bulldozer. The building would then collapse onto said bulldozer. Most likely it will be a wrecking ball or maybe explosives!

Third, most of your points seem to be correcting spelling instead of making any real arguments. Instead of trying to dismiss other's point of technicalities, you should probably be trying to figure out how to raise the money to save the church. Because CMMC will tear it down.

Brian Franck's picture

No they will not!

Central Maine Healthcare Corporation has lost their battle to tear down St. Joseph's Church. They have incurred the wrath of citizens from Lewiston/Auburn. But, some people just don't get it, you, Twiddle Dee and Twiddle Dumb! You are the one who brought up the word "bulldozers", not I. And then, you contradict yourself by stating that bulldozers will not be used! It is not just spelling that I am correcting now. Too many of the responders to articles and letters to the editors in the Sun/Journal have obviously poor grammar skills. That is why I spend so much time correcting spelling. Solution? Just use spell check more often.

MARK GRAVE's picture

What makes you think the

What makes you think the battle for property rights is over? It is only delayed. Even your better half knows that.

Brian Franck's picture

I am sorry, but I am not married!

So, I do not have a better half, just two "halfwits" with whom I am constantly correcting their erroneous statements!

The past is never...

"History is never dead. It is not even past."---William Faulkner.

MARK GRAVE's picture

How many 500 year old

How many 500 year old structures do you see preserved in the U.S?

The past diminishes whit time. --- Mark Gravel

Brian Franck's picture

Tsk! Tsk! Bad spelling again!

I believe the word is spelled "with" not "whit". Of course, we could remove the "h" and put a "dim" in front of the remaining letters, and have a perfect explanation as to why you cannot spell!

All the more reason to...

All the more to make sure a few make the 500 year mark... Maybe this church?

Other contenders: St. Augustine, Fl fort (1670s) and Plymouth Rock.

MARK GRAVE's picture

St. Augustine, FL 1670 + 500

St. Augustine, FL 1670 + 500 = 2170 -- we got a ways to go on this one.

Plymouth Rock - not really a man made structure, only a traditional symbol (no actual), founded in 1620, which means it will be 500 years in 2120. I was going to argue this one did not qualify, but it is not 500 years old anyway.

No cigar for you.

Sylvio Roy's picture

St. Joseph's Church

Do you think demolishing the church is going to save you some money towards your taxes? No, Don't think so! BTW, you shouldn't be paying taxes for the building cause it is not yours to pay for.
Pretend they do demolish the church and put a parking lot. That is left open for many issues and probably not in favor to you. Just a few examples: CMMC could at some point charge you to park there. A flat cash fee or a hidden cost in your health needs. Pretend you need to have CMMC's services and you do park there. How safe is it going to be for you or your family to cross the street? Say if your on crutches or by wheelchair. You want to attempt the walk? When that parking lot needs to be snow plowed. Who will pay for that?
Don't you worry CMMC is thinking very carefully and bet anyone they won't loose any money.

Jason Theriault's picture

Holy hypothetical batman!

First off, if you're a patient, use the parking garage.

Secondly, the reason I brought up taxes was because the free market already had a chance to buy this building on the cheap, and passed. What had changed since then? Nothing. So, unless someone get the money together or the city buys it, it will get demolished.

Brian Franck's picture

You are so certain of that?

I do not think the "free market" is interested in buying this building. Individuals who appreciate architecture and fine old buildings would. At $125,000, that is already dirt cheap for such a vital part of Lewiston's heritage! Remember what some people paid for Jesus, thirty pieces of silver. There are those who will labor tirelessly to prevent st. Joseph's Church from being demolished, despite all the naysayers like yourself!

I wish to thank and congratulate...

I wish to thank and congratulate CMMC on its decision here. Thank you for thinking of the wider community.

Brian Franck's picture

I did just that, Steve!

After a brief interview with WCSH-TV news reporter Danielle Waugh in front of St. Joseph' Church, I went directly to Central Maine Medical Center to thank someone personally from the administrative side. I spoke with Chuck Gill, Vice President for Public Affairs. I suggested to him that I hope this will be the end of it, and the issue of demolishing the church will never raise its ugly head again. I also told him that the next objective of those objecting to the hospital's original plan is to come up with a cohesive plan to buy back the church buildings and property from the healthcare corporation.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

"I also told him that the

"I also told him that the next objective of those objecting to the hospital's original plan is to come up with a cohesive plan to buy back the church buildings and property from the healthcare corporation."
And where, exactly, is the money going to come from for that, Brian??
I'll bet you and Lindsey won't be ponying up.

Brian Franck's picture

From you and....

Twiddle Dee!

That would be ideal...

That would be ideal, but I would also support the re-purposing of St. Joseph's by the hospital into some sort of welcoming center/meeting hall/exhibition place/waiting space/relaxation space for patients to be with their loved ones... et al.

Jason Theriault's picture

The problem

1. They don't need that.
2. Even if they did, it's across the street. You're planning on sending patients across Main street to visit with families?
3. It's theirs now. Why should you get to tell them what to do with their property. You had years where you could have bought it. Now that someone owns it, you want to tell them how to manage their land?

Brian Franck's picture

Repititious!

Boy, you are negative and repetitive! Do you have anything we have not heard before to say?

Brian Franck's picture

There would always be....

There would always be the question of the two very busy intersections of Bates and Main Streets as well as Bates, Sabattus and Main Streets to deal with crossing. It is not a likely place to find recovering patients willing to battle the flow of traffic in getting to the main hospital.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

The parishioners of St.

The parishioners of St. Joseph's Church battled those 'two very busy intersections' for how many decades, Brian??

Brian Franck's picture

Yes, but...

They were not in wheelchairs or on crutches for the most part. And, the traffic flow decades ago was not it is today!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

you were there every Sunday,

you were there every Sunday, eh?

Brian Franck's picture

Should have I been?

I doubt the majority of those attending Sunday morning Masses at St. Joseph's Church would have required wheelchairs. No need for me to be there every week to ascertain that fact, just common sense! Why don't you use some of that "logic" Mr. Gravel keeps talking about?

Those photos with this article...

St. Joseph's is inspiring.... Look at those photos with this article... I'm sure something can be done with this church that allows it to continue standing...

Another converted church.

Former St. John's Methodist Episcopal church in Dover, NH now serves as senior housing.

See: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pennacook/8398076633/in/pool-541635@N20

Yet another successful converted church.

Former St. Kiran's Irish Catholic church now serves as the St. Kiran Community Center for the Arts.

See: http://www.stkieranarts.org/

Dan Moody's picture

Lewiston

Lewiston is not Lewiston anymore it in the hole and will keep on going into the hole . To bad but money talks and thing happen good or bad and in Lewiston case it is bad ................... Lewiston is just a drive through to get someplace.......

Sylvio Roy's picture

St. Joseph's Church

Why demolish a church for a parking lot? A parking lot! for god sakes.. SAD, real sad... CMMC can't be growing enough to do this to Lewiston's 159 year old history building.. To demolish such beauty. Can't they come up with a better plan like possibly use it like a Ronald McDonald House for people who travel afar for health care?
For whoever wants this to happen I'd be ashamed. Must have no love for history.

MARK GRAVE's picture

Are you willing to open your

Are you willing to open your own wallet to fund restoration and ongoing maintenance of the property? Do you want it that much?

If not, then you are not a stakeholder.

Brian Franck's picture

It's Twiddle Dee!

Well, look who has crawled out of the woodwork, the slightly less "dumb" part of Twiddle Dee and Twiddle Dumb! He is harping again on his favorite subject: who is going to pay for St. Joseph's Church. Talk about a one track mind. At least we know by now that Mr. Gravel will not be opening up his wallet!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Who IS going to pay for it,

Who IS going to pay for it, Brian?? I'll bet it won't be you and Lindsey.
.

Jason Theriault's picture

A few things

One - A church is an inefficient building. turning it into anything else is inefficient because it costs tons to heat a large building like that.
Two - It's in bad shape. There are foundation problems and a score of other issues. It's going to cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to fix. Are you going to pay for it?
Three - Nobody wants it. It's been sitting empty for years, getting in even worse shape. The parish tried to sell it off to another group, but recognizing points 1 and 2, there were no takers. A church doesn't convert into other things easily.

Let me put it bluntly - would you be willing to pay $50-100 more in property taxes a year to save the church? I know alot of people who would say no.

MARK GRAVE's picture

Well said Jason.

Well said Jason.

Brian Franck's picture

No!

He never says anything well! I would have expected you to agree with him.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

You are probably an

You are probably an intelligent person. But, when you go off on these chest thumping tirades of self proclaimed superior intellect to the rest of us, you lose all credibility. I marvel that an individual as intellectually superior as you claim to be hasn't figured that out yet.
You may be smart, but you sure know how to make yourself look dumb.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

What are you going to do

What are you going to do about it, snowflake??

Brian Franck's picture

Who is the "snowflake"?

At least we know who you are, Dumbo!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Would you call me that to my

Would you call me that to my face if we were standing in the same room?
Jesus loves you Brian; everyone else thinks you're a worm.

Brian Franck's picture

Hopefully I will never have to stand with you in the same room!

I usually like to associate with intelligent people. But, I have to lower my standards when dealing with the "riff-raff" making stupid comments like yours following well-written articles or letters to the editor! What hole did you crawl out of today?

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

All I know is that I had to

All I know is that I had to look down it to see the top of your head.
Hahah. Your comments about me are really funny. Do you make those up yourself? Now, come on, Brain. Don't lie to us. Oh, did I spell 'lie' correctly, or is it lei, or lye,?

Brian Franck's picture

Yes, I do!

But you did spell my first name incorrectly, intentionally I believe. Coming from you, I will take that as a compliment!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

IGNORE KEY ACTIVATION! Your

IGNORE KEY ACTIVATION!
Your message cannot be delivered to the intended recipient. Please try again later.

Brian Franck's picture

Is this person substituting for Mr. Gravel?

With his ill-informed comments about St. Joseph's Church being in bad shape, Mr. Theriault is displaying some of the stupidity found in Mr. Gravel's and Mr. St. Jean's remarks. Where did he get that piece of erroneous information? In fact, St. Joseph's Church is quite structurally sound. One could have ascertained that fact if one had been reading all of the articles appearing in the Sun/Journal! Yes, big buildings are costly to heat, but that is not sufficient reason to abandon them. "Nobody wants it". Now where does he get that gem? Why would I have to pay taxes on property owned by someone else? Where does he come up with these crazy ideas?

Jason Theriault's picture

I dunno, the sun journal

"It's a vacant building that's in bad condition right now," Gill said Tuesday. "It can't be used for anything, at least the church itself." The rectory, which sits beside the church on Main Street, could be rescued and renovated.

http://www.sunjournal.com/news/lewiston-auburn/2013/05/28/st-josephs-chu...

Also from this link:
"It has been on the market for a while.

The 156-year-old brick complex at 253 Main St. has been unused since October 2009, when Lewiston Catholics closed it and St. Patrick's church overlooking Kennedy Park. In both cases, the churches were becoming too costly to operate."

So maybe you should stop calling people stupid. I don't have a problem with saving the church. I have a problem with johnny come latelys throwing a fit when they have had years to save a building. No one put together a plan to save it in 2009 when it closed. So I don't anticipate anyone doing it now.

Prove me wrong.

But if you can't make a convincing argument to save the church without calling people like myself stupid, your argument is weak, and you will most likely fail.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Is this person substituting

Is this person substituting for Tron? Remember him?

Brian Franck's picture

You have been proven wrong already!

You, Mr. Gravel and Mr. St. Jean have lost the battle! Central Maine Healthcare Corporation withdrew their application for St. Joseph's Church at the very last minute, within hours of the scheduled meeting for the Lewiston Historic Preservation Review Board.
Here is another instance where you are leaning towards the "stupid" side. Chuck Gill is Vice President for Public Affairs with the hospital complex. He is not trained as a structural engineer. If you want accurate information go to a knowledgeable source, Gil Arsenault, the Building and Code Enforcement Officer for the City of Lewiston. He knows what he is talking about, unlike too many others around this area.

MARK GRAVE's picture

Why would someone restore and

Why would someone restore and maintain a building they own, but don’t want?

Brian Franck's picture

How do you know?

Has Chuck Gill, Vice President for Public Affairs, personally told you that Central Maine Healthcare Corporation does not want the building to remain in place?

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Not only are you a lowly name

Not only are you a lowly name caller; you're a name dropper as well. Not looking good for your resume, Brian!!

Brian Franck's picture

At least I have some facts...

to back up my statements! Usually, a person who does his/her research has the better resume! Didn't they teach you that in high school?

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

IGNORE KEY ACTIVATION! Your

IGNORE KEY ACTIVATION!
Your message cannot be delivered to the intended recipient. Please try again later.

MARK GRAVE's picture

Didn't Chuck Gill make his

Didn't Chuck Gill make his intentions clear? CMMC wants to raze the church to build a parking lot. I would think that message is clear by now.

If that is not the case, we would not be having this discussion. Stay with it there Mr. Frack.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Nothing is clear to those who

Nothing is clear to those who wallow in the pits of perpetual darkness.

Brian Franck's picture

Except, that....

I am not in the dark on this matter. That is more than I can say for you and Twiddle Dee!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Brother, if you were half as

Brother, if you were half as bright as you think you are, you'd be twice as bright as you really are.
I know that's complicated for you, Brain, but read it about three times and it'll come to you; somewhat like a bright light.

Brian Franck's picture

You are not my Brother!

At least I am brighter than you are, and that is what counts! So, why don’t you just hang it up? You are no match for my intellect!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Hahaha... That you would even

Hahaha...
That you would even say something like that in public shows what a nut bag you are. Have a nice day basking in your superior intellect.

Brian Franck's picture

It takes one to know one!

Actually, it takes my sinking down to your level, the level of a nut bag, in order for you to be able to understand what I am saying! Public? There is no one else bothering to read any of this rubbish you and Mr. Gravel continue to spew out. This is just a back and forth battle between Steve Lindsey and myself with two "dimwits".

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Sure, you do.

Sure, you do.

Guess it's work'n

He's just taunting you, Pirate. Getting under your skin.

Brian Franck's picture

Absolutely!

That is exactly what I am trying to do! By the looks of it, I am quite successful.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

One wonders why someone who

One wonders why someone who is so successful and superior in intellectual prowess would hire himself out for $12 bucks an hour.

Brian Franck's picture

Whatever gave you that idea?

I am not hiring myself out for $12 an hour. I am very happy to annoy you for free!

MARK GRAVE's picture

Moreover - live in Lewiston -

Moreover - live in Lewiston - no offense to you and the parrot.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

None taken--We live where we

None taken--We live where we live.

Eye on the Prize...

I don't think this is working for saving the church.

A constructive approach would be to suggest possible reuses of St. Joseph's after some research. What others are doing. Other church re-purposes like the community center for the arts in Berlin, NH; the senior housing in Dover, NH, and housing in Southie (Boston,) Ma.

This isn't about us: me, you, pirate, Gravel, others here. It is about St. Joseph's.

We've got to keep ours eyes on the prize.

Brian Franck's picture

We are beyond that, Steve!

This dialogue is no longer about saving St. Joseph's Church. We have accomplished that! I doubt very seriously that Central Maine Healthcare Corporation will return to the City of Lewiston with a plan to tear down the buildings. They have felt the outrage from citizens of the Twin Cities. Notice how close to the wire their application withdrawal was, the very day of the planned meeting to request the demolition approval!
No, this back and forth commentary is a battle between limited parties for which no outsiders really care. I have exposed these two idiots, Mark Gravel and Paul St. Jean, for what they really are, incompetent clowns who leap from story to story pouncing on the writer with opposing viewpoints just for the sole purpose of being combative and nothing else!
I have seen both of these individuals commenting on a variety of stories/letters to the editor. They don't care about the subject matter! All they want to do is ruffle feathers, squelch the opposition and take center stage subjecting everyone to their useless prater. I take everything they have said thus far with a grain of salt. No one in his/her right mind should take them seriously! So, I will just continue to slam back when they go on the offensive.

MARK GRAVE's picture

Brian says: "This dialogue is

Brian says: "This dialogue is no longer about saving St. Joseph's Church. We have accomplished that!"

But Gill says:

"Our intention is to conduct another comprehensive evaluation of all viable options for the church," Gill said. "We understand this church's significance to the community and the emotions, around it, so we will look at it thoroughly. We'll conduct a comprehensive evaluation and come back in a few months, once that review is complete."

Do you make it a habit lying to yourself? It makes it hard to have a dialogue when you mischaracterize the truth.

"No one in his/her right mind should take them seriously!"

Amazing how much we can solicit with a few words. Who is the puppeteer in this game?

Brian Franck's picture

You really are a "dimwit" aren't you?

You just don't get it, do you? Chuck Gill is nothing more than a mouthpiece for the head honchos. He says what they tell him to say and that, is a lot of corporate double talk. The statement regarding a "comprehensive evaluation" and coming "back in a few months" is the typical, usual corporate jargon to save face while exiting hastily, rather like a dog with its tail between its legs! The telltale sign of this is the sudden withdrawal of the application for demolition on the very day of the proposed meeting to obtain an approval from the Lewiston Historic Preservation Review Board.
Oh! I meant that anybody reading your and Mr. St. Jean's comments know better than to take the two of you seriously! You guys are the laughing stock of the online readership community!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

You've GOT the prize; he's

You've GOT the prize; he's your partner and probably a heck of an embarrassment to you. You're just too much of a gentleman to say it.

Brian Franck's picture

Yes, Steve Lindsey is a gentleman!

Too bad you are not! I would like to give you a prize for being a bonehead!

MARK GRAVE's picture

So what happens if CMMC does

So what happens if CMMC does not want to incur costs associated with repurposing the church?

What if CMMC decides to put the church back on the market because they don't want the cost nor want to piss off cry'n Brian, but no one buys it?

What then?

Your solution is predicated on someone with deep and willing pockets.

Brian Franck's picture

I am not crying!

You just love to pick words that rhyme, don't you? I hope that Central Maine Healthcare Corporation puts the property and buildings back on the market. Then someone who really appreciates what kind of beauty it represents will buy it. That most certainly will not be you or Twiddle Dumb!

MARK GRAVE's picture

You mean someone from the

You mean someone from the same crowd that wanted to buy it in 2009, or was that 2010, or was that 2011, or was that 2012.....

Yea, I'm sure they'll come a running just like before...

Brian Franck's picture

You can count! I am impressed!

Can you recite your ABCs also? I just think that someone is waiting for the right price. Hey, where is your buddy, Mr. Paul St. Jean? I guess he got tired of trying to win an argument with me. He knew it was a losing battle so he ran away.
Now tell me something, Mark. Are you and Mr. St. Jean paid by the Sun/Journal to respond to various letters to the editor or news stories in a negative way each time, just to get the dander up of the writer and increase reader interest?

MARK GRAVE's picture

"I just think that someone is

"I just think that someone is waiting for the right price."

Present tense? Church is not for sale anymore. Moreover, no one wanted to purchase it for four consecutive years. Perhaps a bit disillusioned are we?

Brian Franck's picture

Not in the least!

Present tense and future tense! Now that there has been more public focus on the church, things might be going a little differently than you would like it to, Mr. Gravel. How do you know that the church will not be for sale at some point? Central Maine Healthcare Corporation may now realize they made a mistake in purchasing the property.
The only one here disillusioned is you my friend, or might I say "delusional"!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Poke a porcupine often enough

Poke a porcupine often enough and the maelstrom comes. He'll be walking the plank soon enough.

Brian Franck's picture

After you, sir!

I think the plank went out when they invented the gun.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

You'll find out.

You'll find out.

Brian Franck's picture

No he did not!

Chuck Gill never said anything about tearing St. Joseph's Church down to make way for a parking lot when I spoke with him on Thursday afternoon. I think he is now resigned to the fact that this will never happen. Sorry, you lose again Twiddle Dee!

MARK GRAVE's picture

Let's hypothetically say that

Let's hypothetically say that you are correct and the church remains standing. Who will repair it? Where will the money come from to repair the church?

Brian Franck's picture

Are you volunteering?

Why are you so concerned?

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Who WILL pay for it,Brian??

Who WILL pay for it,Brian?? Why is it you never answer that question, Brian??

Brian Franck's picture

Are you his echo?

That is all you two can talk about, money! Are you planning on donating to the cause?

MARK GRAVE's picture

Perhaps because money will

Perhaps because money will play a pivotal role in the final disposition of St. Joseph's. Everyone including Steve knows that, less one holdout.

MARK GRAVE's picture

They don't know Paul, they

They don't know Paul, they don't know. This building will be very expensive to repair and maintain. Hence, that is why the church dumped the property in the first place.

Brian Franck's picture

The Diocese of Portland "dumped" this church because...

they are like the two of you. All they think and talk about anymore is "money"!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

One is from out of state and

One is from out of state and the other, from outer space, but they're just fine with everything so long as someone else comes up with the money to make it all happen. But Mark, isn't that at the very core of all that is wrong with America today? "I get; you pay" is the new mantra.

Brian Franck's picture

I am willing to bet....

that neither Mark Gravel or Paul St. Jean live in Lewiston/Auburn! If that is true, then why are they both so concerned about the fate of one church here? Got an answer to that one, boys?

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

What difference does that

What difference does that make? Lindsey's from NH unless we're to believe he's from Keene, Maine, or maybe he lied to the Journal when he registered as a blogger. Who knows? Who cares? And you? Now that's a whole other matter.

Brian Franck's picture

All the difference in the world!

If you and Mr. Gravel do not reside in Lewiston/Auburn then you really have no business commenting on the future of St. Joseph's Church! In other words, as Mr. Gravel puts it, you are not a stakeholder.

An observation...

It is interesting that of the four of us in this donnybrook, only Brian is from the community. Four of the most passionate people. The three of us from "out there" do have a right to comment. But Brian is the one that literally lives near St. Joseph's, hence his passion.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Your post is quite

Your post is quite inaccurate, and my making it accurate would require telling you things you don't need to know. Moreover, what you call passion is the 5th grade name calling rantings of a lunatic who never learned the protocols of participating in these forums. If you can't disagree with someone without insulting them and calling them vile names, you really have nothing intelligent to say and don't belong here. Steve, take a look through some of these other topics when you have a chance. You'll see passion, yes, but not the insults and name calling that have prevailed on these pages. We can all thank Brian Franck for that.
Enjoy your hump day.

Brian Franck's picture

You are one of two individuals who should not be here!

It is you and Twiddle Dee who jump from story to story, letter to letter and just plain start arguments. That is all the two of you do! I have not made a practice of challenging the writers of different letters to the editor as you two have, and only for the purpose of causing trouble or starting a verbal fight. I think you two guys have just too much time on your hands. As long as you continue to attack my position of wanting to save St. Joseph's Church from destruction, I will hit back and harder. With the likes of you two and your confrontational commentary, I really don't care what I say. I am just going to aim for the jugular. That is all!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Well, well, well....just

Well, well, well....just about the time you think the Orkin Man has finished his job a larvae infestation shows up on your doorstep. How are you, Brain, old dung heap? Are you still being rude and offensive to everyone you meet?

Brian Franck's picture

I am doing quite finely, Cockroach/Maggot! Thanks for asking!

Yes, I am trying very hard to be as offensive and rude as possible. But, it is only aimed at you, Dumbo, and your meathead partner, Mr. Gravel! There is no one other than you two guys who deserve any rudeness or accusations of stupidity, which just so happens to be true in your case. Are you having troubles now with infestations of larvae, and the Orkin man can't seem to fix the problem? Might I suggest that you get someone who can surgically remove all that piled up "dung" from within your head that is attracting all those larvae? Perhaps the result would allow you some improved brain function so that you can make your continual barrage of comments appear more intelligent. Have a nice day!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

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Brian Franck's picture

Smart choice, Mr. St. Jean....

to back out now and save face, sort of like Central Maine Healthcare Corporation's hasty exit last week, quite similar to a dog caught with its tail between its legs! And, my comment now will make the last entry for this story, bringing the grand total to 275. Not quite as much response as the Lew Alessio letter, but this amount will do. See I told you, Dumbo, I always get the last word!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

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MARK GRAVE's picture

We in fact have a right to

We in fact have a right to comment.

Brian lives near St. Joseph's, perhaps that explains his emotional response to issues discussed herein.

Brian Franck's picture

You sure do have a right to comment....

responsibly, though! I have not seen that from either of the two of you. You both join in a discussion just to oppose the writer and start an argument. You don't care about St. Joseph's Church! You, Mr. Gravel, have made that abundantly clear! It is much more fun to hassle someone who does and make sure every new entry completely contradicts what was previously said. Why don't the two of you guys just "get a life"!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

I suspect his emotional

I suspect his emotional responses go a lot deeper than that. You're being kind and gentlemanly, however.

Lazy man me...

Pirate,

Lying and deception take a lot of effort. I'm a notoriously lazy man. It is far easier to tell the truth. A little uncomfortable at first, but in the long run, smoother sailing... You don't have to remember so much.

( Plus the truth is like a sharp stick with many people. I enjoy poking them---This last off the record. )

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

You're preaching to the

You're preaching to the choir.
Sharp stick? How about an insurmountable obstacle on the path to comfortable revisionist 'truths'?

So is Messiers Gravel? Non?

So is Mark Gravel. Isn't this the famous IT engineer from California with several patents to his name?

Even flatlanders have the right to free speech.

MARK GRAVE's picture

I am not an IT engineer. I

I am not an IT engineer. I create the universe in which the IT engineer roams.

Brian Franck's picture

I will certainly agree with that!

It requires a high level of intelligence in order to be an IT engineer. What I have gathered thus far from reading their comments since this whole St. Joseph’s Church thing began, I would guess that writing intelligently is not a high priority for Mr. Gravel and Mr. St. Jean.

Ok... So it is you...

Haha... OK fair enough...

MARK GRAVE's picture

"I get; you pay" Spot on, but

"I get; you pay" Spot on, but that does irritate communist like Mr. Frick or is it Mr. Frack?

Brian Franck's picture

A Communist?

Boy, is he behind the times! The Soviet Union shut down a long time ago Muffin Head!

Brian Franck's picture

Dumbo!

Are you saying that you just landed here from Mars? And all this time I truly thought that there were higher forms of intelligence on other planets! I guess I was wrong.

What is wrong with America...

What is wrong with America is our imperial over-reach and endless wars, as well as our indifference to the well-being of the citizenry as a whole, instead of the well-being of the owning-class who are making mint with 'Free' trade with China... For starters.... A ripping of of the social contract that allowed this country to prevail in WW II is nothing but a dim memory now, with every man out for himself....

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Anything I say to you will be

Anything I say to you will be met with some smart ass name calling retort from your buddy, Brian Franck, so my reply to your comment will be brief.
...............

Brian Franck's picture

Is that a promise?

I was really hoping that you and Mr. Gravel would retire after all the asinine comments the two of you made following Lew Alessio's fine letter to the editor. Over 300 comments followed his letter! How many will we rack up here, boys?

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Retire? Not as long as

Retire? Not as long as schmucks like you are at large.

Brian Franck's picture

It takes "schmucks" like me…..

to put Dumbos like you in their places!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

When, exactly, do you propose

When, exactly, do you propose to do that?

Brian Franck's picture

Anytime...

at your convenience, sir.

300 Comments...

And I don't see any one listening. So what is the point if we are going to just talk at one another?

One side supports passionately saving the church

The other the right of the marketplace to dictate all or most of what goes on in modern America.

But conversions to the other side's view?

Zero.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Difficult to see any

Difficult to see any objective counterpoints through all of the name callings and petty insults, isn't it?

Brian Franck's picture

Are you offering counterpoints?

Again, that requires intelligence! All that I am seeing coming from you and Mr. Gravel is “Dribble”.

MARK GRAVE's picture

With all the conversion, I

With all the conversion, I think you still are missing the point.

THE RIGHT OF THE OWNER! The owner is whom or whatever is on the deed, private or public.

Brian Franck's picture

Rights!

That is all he can talk about! How about "responsible ownership" for a change? With that kind of reasoning, I bet you are the kind of pet owner who would take his animal out to the front lawn and beat it whenever he feels like it. His defense: "I own it". "I can do whatever I want with it". Wrong! You can't!

This just in...!

Where imagination triumphs!

What others are doing.

St. Augustin Church in Southie (Boston) being converted into housing. Cleaned up and prepped for conversion work.

See: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=194328984076388&set=a.1161470152...

MARK GRAVE's picture

Front the money!

Front the money!

Brian Franck's picture

Is that an order?

Where do you get off telling someone to put his/her own money towards the project?

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

What he's telling you is, put

What he's telling you is, put up or shut up. From what we've seen here, you are incapable of both.Brian.

Brian Franck's picture

Well, at least I know that you are not,...

capable of shutting up, that is! I can still dream though.

MARK GRAVE's picture

That is all you got - a wish

That is all you got - a wish sandwich.

Brian Franck's picture

I think you mean “Fish”.

I have already gotten my “wish”. St. Joseph’s Church is not being torn to the ground!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Then why not pack up your

Then why not pack up your sandals and ditty bag and grant the rest of us a wish? Disappear!!

Brian Franck's picture

After you, sir!

I do not wear sandals.

Ditty bag...

Haven't heard that one in a while.

Brian Franck's picture

Hey, where did Mr. Gravel go?

Did he get tired of the debate? I guess Steve and I were too much for him to handle! How soon are you going to go, Mr. St. Jean?

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

AARRGHH!! The pesky larvae

AARRGHH!!
The pesky larvae comes to the web once again.

Brian Franck's picture

Are you referring to yourself?

Once I find it, I will just step on it and squash the life out of it, just what a piece of slime deserves!

MARK GRAVE's picture

Paul, A zit goes away faster

Paul,

A zit goes away faster if you don't keep picking it.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Welcome to WZIT, where you

Welcome to WZIT, where you get to pick ALL the hits.

MARK GRAVE's picture

I got it from the exact same

I got it from the exact same spot where you got the idea that you can go around and expect people to pay for what you want?

Brian Franck's picture

Jump to conclusions!

Your problem is that you jump to conclusions without any facts! I never said that I expect other people to pay for what I want! You made that decision for me.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Then who WILL pay for what

Then who WILL pay for what you want? Not you; not Lindsey. This is beginning to look like nothing more than another money grab by a couple of agitators with big mouths and empty pockets. There; you've been exposed. Time for you to prove otherwise, Brian!!

Brian Franck's picture

It is not just what I want!

It is all those who appreciate the beauty that St. Joseph's Church represents! It is too bad you two, and now Mr. Theriault who joins the pack, cannot appreciate architectural beauty. Since Mr. Theriault has joined your little triumvirate in battling against Mr. Lindsey and myself over saving St. Joseph's Church, would it be better if I referred to all of you as "The Three Stooges"?

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

I'll bet you wouldn't do that

I'll bet you wouldn't do that face to face with any of us, would you, Brain?

Brian Franck's picture

Of course I would!

But I can take solace in the fact that I will never have to stomach seeing your face or Mr. Gravel’s in person. And, thank you once again for your compliment as to my intelligence. Keep on spelling my name wrong!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

I wouldn't be too sure about

I wouldn't be too sure about that, Brain.

MARK GRAVE's picture

Less emotion more logic Mr

Less emotion more logic Mr Frick.

Brian Franck's picture

And you think more logically?

That, is a laugh coming from the likes of Twiddle Dee!

Role of agitators..

A "couple of agitators" founded this nation.

By dumping tea in Boston Harbor.

Agitators get things done.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Sure, except today you try to

Sure, except today you try to get your 'causes' ratified with other peoples' money. Basically, you're carpetbaggers. Do you two even have jobs or are you 'retired church savers'?

MARK GRAVE's picture

Too bad the parrot cannot

Too bad the parrot cannot discharge in flight; otherwise, I have a paying job for him. "Squawk, poly want to splatter."

Brian Franck's picture

Hey, do you guys work in shifts?

Why don’t you coordinate your schedules so that the two of you can offer your -2¢ worth of commentary together? In that way you will then both be twice as ineffective!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

There is definitely a target

There is definitely a target rich environment out there. Plenty of prospects.

Brian Franck's picture

Just put a large "X" over your face!

That will do the trick!

Brian Franck's picture

There he goes again!

Always talking about money, Mr. Jean has a limited vocabulary. Which one are you, Larry, Curly or Moe?

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Mr. Funck; if you're going

Mr. Funck; if you're going use my last name at least take the time to get it correctly. Otherwise, call me Sir, gothmo.

Brian Franck's picture

You got me!

I made a mistake. That is one mistake for me and 100 for you! I got a ways to go to catch up. I left the "St." out of St. Jean. Why don't you leave the "n" out of the way you spelled my name above and you can get your comment removed like you did when you referred to me using a seven letter word beginning with "a". And, I didn't even bring that one to the attention of the newspaper!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

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MARK GRAVE's picture

Because that is the root

Because that is the root locus. Who will pay?

Brian Franck's picture

Why don't you pay for a change?

Then maybe you and Twiddle Dumb will shut up! That would be so refreshing!

Of course...

I have three. One full time and two part times.

Doing my part to support the Empire!

Historic preservation is something I do for my higher, culture needs... Writing, protesting... I organized the Wood Island Life Saving Protests this summer in Kittery. Donations too.

But I am a workingman who pays his way in this world.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Kudos.

Kudos.

Another example of a re-purposed church...

Hotel pharmacy in a former Methodist church in downtown Brattleboro, Vt.

See: http://www.hotelrx.com/history.html

MARK GRAVE's picture

Instead of only cut-n-paste

Instead of only cut-n-paste action, perhaps you should a have bought the church and done with it what you see fit.
You sure want to do a hell of a lot with someone else’s money!

In my opinion, you really sound selfish with those kinds of expectations.

Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is? We have already seen your answer to that question - NO!

Brian Franck's picture

You certainly give a lot of lip though!

Perhaps a good sized potato placed in your mouth would prevent you from offering anymore of your useless comments!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

If I had to guess, I'd say

If I had to guess, I'd say these two guys don't have two quarters to rub together. All talk; no swag, unless it's other peoples' of course.

Brian Franck's picture

I have more than two quarters. Do you need a loan?

I will let you do the swaggering Mr, St. Jean. You have more than enough "hot air" for the both of us, probably enough to run the Great Falls Balloon Festival next weekend!

Maybe we should go back to property ownership for voting?

Money Makes the World Go Around... It is the only thing that matters here,

See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkRIbUT6u7Q

Brian Franck's picture

There are people who actually buy churches to convert into homes

I am "selfish" because I do not want to see a beautiful church building torn to the ground? What about Central Maine Healthcare Corporation? They are not selfishness because they want to tear down an important part of Lewiston's cultural history?

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Back to square one, Brian!!

Back to square one, Brian!! They OWN it!! What part of the words THEY and OWN is it that you find so confounding??

Brian Franck's picture

There is nothing "confounding" here!

At least those who buy an old church and convert the building into a home, have saved it from destruction.

MARK GRAVE's picture

Well, you had form 2009-2012

Well, you had form 2009-2012 to do so, but you failed.

Brian Franck's picture

And now we have won!

You must be so disappointed that you did not succeed in your battle to get St. Joseph's Church torn to the ground. You still have not learned to spell yet! I believe the word you intended was "from" not "form".

MARK GRAVE's picture

“I am "selfish" because I do

“I am "selfish" because I do not want to see a beautiful church building torn to the ground?”
No, you are selfish for expecting others to pay for it.

“They are not selfishness because they want to tear down an important part of Lewiston's cultural history?”

No, they own the building; they can do whatever they want with it within the constraints of zoning laws. It is called property rights. Now if you would have bought the church, you call the shots.

Brian Franck's picture

Here he goes again!

Here he goes again putting words in my mouth saying things I never said! Boy, is this guy repetitious. It is not zoning laws here, bozo! Get your facts straight. It is a certificate of appropriateness that Central Maine Healthcare Corporation must receive before they can tear down St, Joseph's Church. Why don't you call city hall and speak with someone who knows what he/she is talking about. You certainly do not!

MARK GRAVE's picture

The Historic Preservation

The Historic Preservation Review Board would have little power to stop the demolition of the former St. Joseph's church.

Brian Franck's picture

You have got that wrong!

If the Lewiston Historic Preservation Review Board denies the Central Maine Healthcare Corporation's request for a certificate of appropriateness, the church cannot be torn down.

MARK GRAVE's picture

Who are you going to get to

Who are you going to get to invest in that money pit?

Brian Franck's picture

No one is investing in a money pit!

Is that all you think about, "money"?

Brian Franck's picture

No one is investing in a money pit!

Is that all you think about, "money"?

Jason Theriault's picture

One problem your ignoring

One problem your ignoring is that the church has big ticket issues that regardless of the use will need to be repaired. It's more cost effective to tear it down at this point, so unless someone feels like ponying up the cash, no one will touch it.

Brian Franck's picture

He does not like to read the newspaper.

"More cost effective" to tear down St. Joseph's Church? Boy, is that a stupid statement! Perhaps Mr. Theriault should bet his money on the "ponys" at the race track. He could then help us out. Please read your newspaper thoroughly. St. Joseph's Church is structurally sound!

So does St. Augustine....

So does/did St. Augustines mentioned above, St Brigid's of NYC, and many others that have been brought back.

It is always easier to tear down for a parking lot than do anything else...

But that is a failure of imagination, of creativity.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Where was all the outrage and

Where was all the outrage and clamor when the very same thing was done to the Protestant Church directly across the street from St. Joseph's? I don't recall any of the 'preservationists' bemoaning the loss of that one to the asphalt kingdom.

Brian Franck's picture

Well Look!

Well, look who has resurfaced, it's "Twiddle Dumb"! Where is "Twiddle Dee"? I am waiting with baited breath for Mr. Gravel's many luminous "pearls of wisdom". For the moment, I will just have to savor the victory and the fact that both Mr. Gravel and Mr. St. Jean are eating "crow" now. They lost!
I bemoaned the loss of the United Baptist Church. As a result of this, I will never patronize Sam's Italian Sandwich Shoppes again!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

And I'm sure Sam the Italian

And I'm sure Sam the Italian has tossed and turned every night worrying about the absence of your patronage ever since. Sicko!!

Brian Franck's picture

I am sure that he doesn't!

Because he does not care or appreciate what the United Baptist Church represented, he probably will not miss a few customers who disagreed with his actions. What does sickness have to do with this? I never got sick eating food from Sam's Italian Sandwich Shoppes! Why are you suggesting that I did?

Symbol of Our Age...

We should love Sam for he provided that most sort after of services in American Civic Life: storage for automobiles.

The Parking Lot is the symbol of our age.

Thanks Sam!

Brian Franck's picture

He is a sore loser!

I think I have gotten Mr. St. Jean mad at me. We certainly do have a problem here. I am smart and he is dumb! Both Mr. Gravel and Mr. St. Jean cannot stomach the fact that Steve Lindsey and I won the battle of keeping St. Joseph's Church from a date with the wrecking ball!

Not one to gloat, with this happening south of us...

What could be ( For Gravel and Pirate who so believed in an unrestrained market as the only deciding factor in our society and might be feeling blue over this change in Lewiston. )

St. Mary's Help of Christians, East Village, NYC.

The Allen Ginsberg church so called because he wrote of it in his poetry ( he lived across the street. )

Being demolished for upper income housing.

See: http://evgrieve.com/2013/08/demolishing-96-year-old-mary-help-of.html

Pirate...

Well, that makes two on here lamenting the loss of the United Baptist Church.

I was upset at the time...

I was upset at the time... And I sent letters out complaining 'bout the pizza parlor king that did this dastardly deed to the Baptist church.... The Grace Lutheran earlier I didn't know about...

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Yes, but noble as your cause

Yes, but noble as your cause may be, you are but one voice in the night. Where were the others?

Brian Franck's picture

A lot more than you think!

Steve Lindsey is not a lone voice crying out in the wilderness! There are plenty of others, myself included. Why else would Central Maine Healthcare Corporation have backed down?

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Trust me, Brian, when Steve

Trust me, Brian, when Steve Lindsey has you standing by his side; he is alone.

Brian Franck's picture

Because Steve Lindsey is a nice guy!

He chooses not to battle all the "nitwits" that I have to deal with in this effort to save St. Joseph's Church! I will not allow stupidity and ignorance to have a victory!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

You bring all the 'nitwits'

You bring all the 'nitwits' on yourself. You've attacked me, Mark, Bob White, Jason and then you wonder why you have to battle the 'nitwits'? Seems to me if you can't figure this one out, you're the biggest nitwit of all. Treat people with respect and courtesy and you might even get some back.

Brian Franck's picture

You finally admit that you are a "nitwit"?

Way to go, Dumbo! Perhaps I can find the right kind of repellant, like some kind of bug spray.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

IGNORE KEY ACTIVATION! Your

IGNORE KEY ACTIVATION!
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Ouch...

Oh lordy... Too bad I have to go to work soon.

MARK GRAVE's picture

Chuck Gill Said:

"Our intention is to conduct another comprehensive evaluation of all viable options for the church," Gill said. "We understand this church's significance to the community and the emotions, around it, so we will look at it thoroughly. We'll conduct a comprehensive evaluation and come back in a few months, once that review is complete."

This does not mean the church will not get demolished.

Brian Franck's picture

As long as there are naysayers like you and Mr. St, Jean,...

there will always be a fight to preserve our legacy and heritage. But for now, I am going to savor the victory and prepare for the next battle. It is going to be a long war!

MARK GRAVE's picture

You will only lose in the

You will only lose in the end. Time marches on, and our heritage always dies, just like the Catholic church is dieing. The only question is, in which generation will it pass its final breath.

We all lose... Up all the living and the dead.

" Yes, the news­pa­pers were right: snow was gen­eral all over Ire­land. It was falling softly upon the Bog of Allen and, fur­ther west­wards, softly falling into the dark muti­nous Shan­non waves. It was falling too upon every part of the lonely church­yard where Michael Furey lay buried. It lay thickly drifted on the crooked crosses and head­stones, on the spears of the lit­tle gate, on the bar­ren thorns. His soul swooned slowly as he heard the snow falling faintly through the uni­verse and faintly falling, like the descent of their last end, upon all the liv­ing and the dead. "

The Dead
James Joyce

MARK GRAVE's picture

"Imagination is not a prelude

"Imagination is not a prelude to reality; it is merely an escape." -- Mark Gravel

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

"Although not one given to

"Although not one given to the higher flights of intellect, he did manage to garner a certain level sympathy from lower echelon mammals. However, he was incapable of cultivating long term relationships with dogs and humans."--The Parrot
(There are those who believe the author may have written this piece in reference to The Pirate, his lord and master).

"s more...

Imagination allow Edison his light bulb, the Wright Brothers their heavier than air aircraft, and Steve Jobs the machine I'm typing on now...

MARK GRAVE's picture

Okay, boxed myself in the

Okay, boxed myself in the corner on that one.

Brian Franck's picture

Could you "box" your mouth

Could you "box" your mouth next time, please?

Just back out slowly...

Just back out slowly, and if anyone notices, point to the horizon and yell "Hey, look, a polar bear!"

MARK GRAVE's picture

How about something more

How about something more traditional to Maine.

Wow Steve, what did you eat? (Look discussed, pinch nose between thumb and forefinger, and exit swiftly)

Much more believable than the polar bear version.

Brian Franck's picture

Too bad, you won't be around when that time comes!

Neither will I, because it is a very long way off! You really do like showing how limited your education was! I believe the word is spelled "dying" not "dieing".

MARK GRAVE's picture

No need to proof read what I

No need to proof read what I type when my secretary does it for me. Happy secretary day there Mr. Frick (or is it Frack).

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Do you detect a bit of

Do you detect a bit of severely unfounded superiority complex, there, Mark?

Brian Franck's picture

I am not superior to the two of you...

just smarter, that's all!

MARK GRAVE's picture

Either what you said or a

Either what you said or a bushel of crazy.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

All options are on the table.

All options are on the table.

Must be nice...

Must be nice having a minion buff your golf shoes and proof read your material.

See, working people do serve a purpose Mr Gravel!

MARK GRAVE's picture

Yes it is nice and cheaper

Yes it is nice and cheaper than third-world labor.

Yes. those...

Those English majors and American Studies majors from American tony colleges sure work cheap!

MARK GRAVE's picture

Those skills plus a quarter

Those skills plus a quarter (okay, $2.95 when adjusted for inflation) buys you a cup of coffee.

Stop that...

I used this two days ago on another site... You're making me feel unoriginal!

True...

St. Joseph's is still on the chopping block...

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

At least one of you has a

At least one of you has a link to reality.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Because they fear the mighty

Because they fear the mighty Cryin' Brian?

TOM FOURNIER's picture

Glad to hear they're reconsidering...

"Basement frescoes were added in 1877, stained glass windows in 1917 and 12 bronze bells in 1926. It was placed on the National Historic Register in 1989."

The church should have left it in its original condition. Removing the frescoes and stained glass windows significantly undermines its beauty and heritage. Besides, how do you remove a fresco?

Brian Franck's picture

Yes!

I agree with Mr. Fournier 100% in his assessment of leaving the stained glass windows and frescoes in tact for the sake of the church's beauty and heritage! But, you have to understand that the Diocese of Portland wants to make as much money as it can out of this mess it created.

MARK GRAVE's picture

The church did not leave the

The church did not leave the stained glass windows or frescoes because they had value, but structure did not.

Paul, hit the "easy button."

FRANK EARLEY's picture

Please excuse my ignorance..................

But what is a "Fresco?????????????

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

"It's a citrus flavored soda

"It's a citrus flavored soda manufactured by the Coca Cola Bottling Company", chimed the all knowing parrot, who quite often knows diddly squat.

MARK GRAVE's picture

Oh, the parrot diddles when

Oh, the parrot diddles when he squats. He needs to have that look into.

Brian Franck's picture

You can say that again!

Another stupid comment from Twiddle Dumb! I will have to agree with one thing he said though. Dumbo certainly knows "diddly squat".

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

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FRANK EARLEY's picture

No, that's Fresca...........

......................................................

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Hahaha....I wondered which of

Hahaha....I wondered which of you would take the bait on that one. The parrot was right. He said someone would.

Jason Theriault's picture

It's falling apart

It's going to come down one way or another, either by bulldozer or neglect.

It's already in bad shape. Trying to save it now is going to take ALOT of money, and if I was CMMC I would just walk away. Offer it to the city at the $125K purchase price.

Or just remove all the door and windows and wait 6 months.

MARK GRAVE's picture

Hey, If I were CMMC, I would

Hey, If I were CMMC, I would up the offering price to cover closing and filing costs that CMMC had to pay - or more. There is a demonstrated demand.

Brian Franck's picture

Really?

Another stupid comment from someone who knows nothing. The building is not falling apart!

Jason Theriault's picture

Stupid eh?

Well, I based my comment off of whats in the article. If you know something of substance, please feel free to share.

However, since nobody was willing to pony up $125K for the building, I'm guessing it must not be in good shape. I could be wrong. But I'm also not calling people's comment stupid either.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

What would you say, something

What would you say, something like a Tasmanian Devil on Prosac?

Brian Franck's picture

Good job, Mr. St. Jean!

You fell right into my trap! You actually thought that I was the final entry into this discussion, that I was going to have the "last word"? I really fooled you! I never intended to stop the comments. I was only baiting you to keep the fight of words going, and you took the bait this time! The joke is on you now! Let's see if we can push the comments past 300.

Brian Franck's picture

To be Honest!

If a comment is given without due thought or correct information, I will label it as stupid. You are definitely wrong here! Just because a building is sold for $125,000 does not automatically imply that it is in bad shape. To draw a connection between the two is, well, stupid! Central Maine Heatlhcare Corporation made an initial offer of only $50,000. Perhaps, they thought that the Diocese of Portland was stupid enough to accept it!

MARK GRAVE's picture

Even the church said in a

Even the church said in a interview that it abandoned the church due to expensive and unaffordable repair costs.

I don't think you are off-base claiming the building is not in good shape.

Brian Franck's picture

Really?

He certainly is off-base (in more ways than one). Can you cite that specific interview? I think I missed that one.

MARK GRAVE's picture

"Catholics closed it and St.

"Catholics closed it and St. Patrick's church overlooking Kennedy Park. In both cases, the churches were becoming too costly to operate."

http://www.sunjournal.com/news/lewiston-auburn/2013/05/28/st-josephs-chu...

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Don't you just love this guy?

Don't you just love this guy?

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