D. Warren: Hearing the truth

"LePage dogged again by remark," was the headline on a Bangor Daily News story reprinted in the Sun Journal Oct. 23. But the BDN and the Sun Journal have it wrong — it's the media that is relentless in dogging the governor about him speaking the truth and the liberal media doesn't want to hear it.

There are a lot of Mainers who work and expect no handouts and I, for one, resent the able-bodied who have found the secret to success through the state's generous social programs.

It is my thought that if all those "gifts" were not out there, more people would go to work.

Dick Warren, Litchfield

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Comments

CAROLYN LIBBEY's picture

May you stay fed, happy and

May you stay fed, happy and well.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

What a lovely Christian viewpoint, Mr.Warren.

NOT.

Bob Woodbury's picture

A conservative...

...think tank recently ranked Maine 41st in the nation in welfare benefits for their residents. Thanks hardly generous. Remember - this is a conservative organization assigning this ranking.

Betty Davies's picture

There's a severe shortage of jobs

There are 2 or 3 times as many people looking for work than there are jobs. Cutting access to food, shelter, and health care for those who can't find work will not magically increase the number of available jobs.

Thousands of people work for corporations that give their CEOs multi-million dollar bonuses while paying workers so little that they qualify for food stamps. Denying them food won't increase their wages.

MICHAEL LEBLANC's picture

Name one.

Thousands of people work for corporations that give their CEOs multi-million dollar bonuses while paying workers so little that they qualify for food stamps.

Name one.

Wal-Mart MacDonalds etc etc

Wal-Mart
MacDonalds
etc etc

MICHAEL LEBLANC's picture

Mickey D?

OK, let them bump up salaries and benefits so that flipping burgers becomes a major career path. And let them dump all those evil, greedy, over-paid executives - although doing so won't even begin to pay for the increases. So the company will be run by 3rd tier incompetents who will have no choice but to hike prices.

So, Wayne, how much are you willing to pay for your next MacGutbuster?

MARK GRAVE's picture

There is nothing wrong with

There is nothing wrong with earning what you can!!

Seriously?

That's the best you can do?

MARK GRAVE's picture

It is all that needs to be

It is all that needs to be said! Very simple concept.

MARK GRAVE's picture

"There are 2 or 3 times as

"There are 2 or 3 times as many people looking for work than there are jobs."

Really, that is an amazing statistic, almost unbelievable. And to think that local business complain they have difficulty filling job openings. I wonder if it has anything to do with welfare being more lucrative than work.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

How do you justify

How do you justify that response? "Welfare being more lucrative than Work". If you say it's so , prove it...

FRANK EARLEY's picture

Mark, move to one of them..........

Then complain all you want there,.................................

MARK GRAVE's picture

Because I work for the money

Because I work for the money I earn.

Bob Woodbury's picture

A conservative...

think tank recently ranked Maine 41st in the nation in welfare benefits for their residents. Thanks hardly generous. Remember - this is a conservative organization assigning this ranking.

MARK GRAVE's picture

State A offers $10 in welfare

State A offers $10 in welfare and state B offers $5 in welfare.

To qualify for State A welfare, I must satisfy 50 requirements, one of which is a 2 year waiting period.

To qualify for State B welfare, I must simple say I live in the state.

Now, what state will attract more welfare seekers, state A or state B?

Uh...

The one with the jobs?

Stories of lazy jerks who live where they are most likely to get benefits have never been proven to be more than anecdotes (or, in the case of Reagan's "welfare queen", made up completely) that do not represent the vast majority who get those benefits for reasons that have nothing to do with laziness or taking the path of least resistance.

MARK GRAVE's picture

It is equally disingenuous to

It is equally disingenuous to say that all welfare recipients are lazy or say all are not lazy for some do take the easy way path, the path of least resistance.

Bob Woodbury's picture

What's your point?

What's your point?

MARK GRAVE's picture

Let me spoon feed you. A

Let me spoon feed you.
A state that does not have the best welfare benefits but easy to acquire benefits may attract people to the state compared to an other state with more lucrative benefits but more stringent requirements. Just because Maine is ranked 41st does not mean that it does not pull benefit seekers.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

Mark, where do you get your theories?????????

I understand you need to have an answer for everything, but your assumptions just don't make sense. I can remember back in the mid to late eighties, there was an influx of welfare recipients, if I remember correctly they came here after Massachusetts started cracking down on welfare fraud. The ones we got around here came from lovely locations like Lowell, and Lawrence Mass. In an odd twist to things, a lot of these transplants bought their better half along with them. I'm assuming the appearance of a family unit made assistance easier to obtain. Problem was the boy friends / husbands, soon jumped ship upon completion of the process.
As I had no reason to, I never paid much attention to what was done, but something was eventually done to cut the number of welfare transplants arriving in Maine. I might also mention, the crime rate at the time grew consistently with the influx of people.
The recent arrival of the Somali citizens can in no way be compared to the influx I mentioned earlier. There's a big difference between relocating for welfare, and relocating to start a new life. Unfortuneatly, their need for assistance , although for the better part temporary, is putting a strain on the system.
There are those who feel the only solution to a problem is to complain about it. ridicule those affected, and hope they leave. We all know who those people are.
Yes we have had an influx of people coming to Maine. It's what they came here for, that is in dispute. The most recent influx of people, in my opinion are totally different than the last influx. I have worked with many of the new transplants. They came into my plant as temps and worked their butts off. Some made the transition from temp, to full time employee quickly due to their work ethic. That is not an easy task. These people are the subjects of some really bizarre accusations regarding what they receive, it not only false, it's insulting.
I think we can agree on one thing, there are some who may abuse the system. There always will be those who abuse the system. There are far more who not only follow the rules but, desperately need this help.
This I can say from experience, false accusations, baseless rumors,and in general treating the less fortunate like some sort of quarantined group of outcast's, is both unfair and hurtful. The way some individuals speak of the poor and jobless or disabled in this forum, almost sounds like they are referring to the subjects of a cattle auction. I guess its easy to forget that these are real people with feelings. I guess they don't measure up to us rich folk, so they don't deserve our respect.....................

MARK GRAVE's picture

My theory is basic deductive

My theory is basic deductive reasoning:

If one is to seek welfare benefits, one is likely to take the path of least resistance over greater resistance albeit greater reward.

How you read anymore into that statement is beyond the comprehension of all but one reader of this web site - kooky.

Bob Woodbury's picture

OK.

What's your point?

Betty Davies's picture

False comparison

You're assuming that desperately poor people have the option of investing in cross-country travel, casually deciding to travel thousands of miles if necessary to find the best deal. Most people who get social services in any state are those who already live there. "Recent research tells us that fewer than 1 percent of all 2010 recipients of public benefits came to Maine from another state. From 2008 through July 2010, the number of aid recipients who left Maine each month was double the number who moved to Maine." [http://bangordailynews.com/2011/04/01/health/myths-about-homelessness/]

Also from the BDN--"Mark Swan who runs the Preble Street Resource Center for the homeless in Portland has stated that those who do come from another state have a connection to Maine, or a family member, or a reason to be there other than services. He notes that about one third are from Portland, one third are from other places in Maine, and the rest have come from out of state. The number from out of state are seen as deceiving because some were born in Maine, left and lived in other states, and then came back to Maine years later and ended up being homeless. Thomas McLaughlin from the University of New England has been has been compiling data for six years on this very subject. Of those that do come to Portland from other states, most of them come to Portland to find work. Many travel between Portland and Florida for seasonal jobs. The number of people that are receiving services that move out is almost double or triple than those people moving in."

There's an interesting self-contradiction in the right wing. 1) poor people are too lazy to move to another state where job prospects might be better, so they don't deserve help; 2) poor people keep moving to other states, so it's surely because they're seeking easier ways to get welfare.

Four out of 5 U.S. adults struggle with joblessness, near-poverty or reliance on welfare for at least parts of their lives. These are your neighbors, not just some loathsome non-humans living in other states. Have you noticed the increasingly globalized U.S. economy, the widening gap between rich and poor, and the loss of good-paying manufacturing jobs? Poverty is not a lifestyle choice. It's forced on people by the US economy. "By 2030, based on the current trend of widening income inequality, close to 85% of all working-age adults in the U.S. will experience bouts of economic insecurity.

"Poverty is no longer an issue of 'them', it's an issue of 'us'," says Mark Rank, a professor at Washington University in St. Louis who calculated the numbers. "Only when poverty is thought of as a mainstream event, rather than a fringe experience that just affects blacks and Hispanics, can we really begin to build broader support for programs that lift people in need."

[See http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/28/poverty-unemployment-rates_n_36... and also http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/07/28/americans-poverty-no-work/2594203/]

Also, when you speak of "welfare," you're casting your net wide. Do you mean SSI? You're including tens of thousands of severely disabled people. Food stamps? You're including Wal-Mart and McDonald's workers. Social Security? You're including people whose only crime is being elderly and poor. See http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3677--"Some conservative critics of federal social programs, including leading presidential candidates, are sounding an alarm that the United States is rapidly becoming an “entitlement society” in which social programs are undermining the work ethic and creating a large class of Americans who prefer to depend on government benefits rather than work. A new CBPP analysis of budget and Census data, however, shows that more than 90 percent of the benefit dollars that entitlement and other mandatory programs[1] spend go to assist people who are elderly, seriously disabled, or members of working households — not to able-bodied, working-age Americans who choose not to work."

TIMOTHY OLEHOWSKI's picture

GREAT post, Betty!

Taking a line from FoxNation - you obliterated Mr. Gravel!!

Betty Davies's picture

Thanks

You're very kind.

MARK GRAVE's picture

Yet, America is still broke.

Yet, America is still broke.

Gee, wonder why that is...

Could it be because of people like you and Noquist who WANT America to be broke? Because, see, if you keep cutting taxes to the bone, even those functions of the government that you support (and I haven't figured out that those are) won't have the money they require.

If your customers kept insisting that you cut your prices for the goods and/or services you provide, do you agree and cut your prices until your costs are higher than your income? No, I didn't think so. Yet that is what the anti-tax crowd are asking for. "Give us our government, but we don't want to pay for it!"

MARK GRAVE's picture

My customers do continually

My customers do continually insist on lower prices. Once we release a product to market, it is an arms race to keep driving down production costs until the product it end of life.

If we don't continually drive out costs, our competitors will. If they do it better than me, then they may take my market share.

That is life in the real world.

CAROLYN LIBBEY's picture

So, just for the record--what

So, just for the record--what type of business are you in.

MARK GRAVE's picture

I design specialized computer

I design specialized computer processors. I also have my own business on the side.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

America may be broke..............

But I'm doing just fine thank you..........................

RONALD RIML's picture

No shit, Sherlock....

We can reverse the Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II tax cuts, but you don't have your Big-boy Pants on for it.

MARK GRAVE's picture

The list of

MARK GRAVE's picture

So you want to go back to a

So you want to go back to a Carter economy?

Those of us paying the bill will not stand for it. We'll simply move our money to where it will not be taxed. It is really that simple, so I'm not too worried about the liberal tax and spend insanity.

Jonathan Albrecht's picture

We knew in your heart,

you have no allegiance to this country.

MARK GRAVE's picture

My allegiance is predicated

My allegiance is predicated on which direction the country is going. If the country continues on this path of debt spending, no, I want no part if it; I will not allow myself to pay for the countries missteps and financial mismanagement. I will not fight for this country unless she is attacked on US soil. I will not fight in any hegemonic wars.

I will wash my hands of it.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

That makes you a parasite, Mark

A parasite as well as a liar. You said you served in Desert Storm.

"I will not fight for this country unless she is attacked on US soil." Your words.

MARK GRAVE's picture

Tell me the difference in

Tell me the difference in structure of these two sentences.

1. I had fought in Desert Storm.
2. I will not....

There is a little thing call "tense" that puts them into the appropriate context for the past and future. Given the human life span is 70+ years. One is likely to change position on a topic over time. Do you think?

JOANNE MOORE's picture

No, Mr. PARASITE.

Learning NOT to share and being a bully, is learned very early in life. Also, lying.

MARK GRAVE's picture

Sharing is an artifact of

Sharing is an artifact of free will, not an artifact of force.

Having the government take my earnings is not sharing. Fighting such behavior is not being a bully, but rather akin to self-defense.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

Ballocks!

Artifact, my arse!

FRANK EARLEY's picture

Hey mark,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

That's twice this week you've been caught in a lie........................

MARK GRAVE's picture

Be specific, what is the lie?

Be specific, what is the lie?

FRANK EARLEY's picture

Well lets see..........

This desert Storm thing they're talking about, and of course, the bit about your wish to teach people how to handle money properly. I handle my money responcibly, and you ridicule me for it me for it...............

RONALD RIML's picture

You've read it here!!!

Mark McDuck wrote: "I'm not too worried about the liberal tax and spend insanity."

Yet he pisses and moans for all to read...... A 30 day Mark Menses

MARK GRAVE's picture

There is no inconsistency in

There is no inconsistency in my philosophy. I speak out against tax policies that will hurt this country and individuals. I don't just complain, I take evasive action call tax planning. Both acts are self-consistent with my philosophy.

TIMOTHY OLEHOWSKI's picture

And I'm sure you classify yourself as a "patriot" right?

You're just a miserable old tightwad who probably has very few, if any, friends. Your relatives probably cringe when they know you're showing up. You should probably watch the movie "Scrooge". You'd be a natural for the title role. You can talk about facts versus emotion, but life is so much more than money - a concept that you will never be able to grasp. I really pity you and your pathetic existence.

MARK GRAVE's picture

If fantizing that role helps

If fantizing that role helps you cope day-to-day, then I'm glad I can be of assistance. I have you displaying envy even though you have no don't know much about me. Who is in control?

Bob Woodbury's picture

Let's put it this way...

I'd love to have a battle of wits with you, but I never attack and unarmed man.

Posted in the Lewiston Sun by a poster called “Still Relaxin”...
Conservative strategy one, deflect.
Conservative strategy two, demean "anyone" daring to oppose conservative ideals (no matter how repulsive those "ideals" may be to the majority of the public).
Conservative strategy three, when all else fails take up space in a discussion even when you clearly have nothing to say.
Conservative strategy four, do or say anything that will bring you attention even if it means doing or saying something repulsive.
Man, you're a good conservative!

MARK GRAVE's picture

How is pushing a frugal live

How is pushing a frugal live style demeaning? Oh well, I can still sleep at night.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

Frugal life style?

LOL. All PARASITES hide their assets. All Quislings and traitors hide their colors and identities.

Karma is a b*tch.

MARK GRAVE's picture

There is no scientific

There is no scientific evidence of the assistance of Karma. In my opinion, it is a construct of human imagination, like religion, and serves as an emotional coping mechanism, also like religion.

MARK GRAVE's picture

I view it as a means of

I view it as a means of self-defense. You have no right to what I earn, simply put.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

Tell that to the IRS

They may have other opinions.

MARK GRAVE's picture

What the IRS takes is not

What the IRS takes is not called sharing. Sharing is voluntary.

RONALD RIML's picture

Tim - he has many, many friend$......

All probably wisely invested offshore....... ;)

MARK GRAVE's picture

All my friends support me.

All my friends support me.

Bob Woodbury's picture

Both of them?

Both of them?

MARK GRAVE's picture

I see you are still making

I see you are still making asserts based on emotion. The volume of my friends is at least 1% of the population.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

Are you quoting..........?

Are you quoting Marie Antoinette?

RONALD RIML's picture

We notice you said 'Volume' rather than number....

MARK GRAVE's picture

Hey, I'm okay with people who

Hey, I'm okay with people who accumulate weath, I'm not the one with the sensitivity to the concept.

Bob Woodbury's picture

Can't tax and spend.

You're too busy hoarding your money, Mr. McDuck.

MARK GRAVE's picture

If you wish to call financial

If you wish to call financial planning hoarding that is not my characterization of savings for the future. Perhaps you wished you saved more over the years?

Bob Woodbury's picture

No. Not at all.

I turned down very good jobs that would have paid me four and five times what I was making here, in Boston, Philadelphia and on Madison Avenue in New York, unlike yourself. I had a handicapped daughter to care for. She's 53 now and we are blessed to have her still living with us. Not only did we make out all right financially, although I probably don't have as many shiny go-faster toys as you do, by my family lived in a beautiful place with beautiful people around us. We've had very good, comfortable lives and no regrets. I believe all of your protestations in this forum are nothing more than a cover-up for an unfullfilled life. I feel sorry for you.

CAROLYN LIBBEY's picture

Well said Bob. Mr. "G" 's

Well said Bob. Mr. "G" 's hatred of others is controlling him whether he believes it or not. He pretty much trolls this site.

MARK GRAVE's picture

1. I hate no one. That is

1. I hate no one. That is wasted energy, I rather use that energy to earn money.
2. I frequent this web-site no more or less than any other of the regulars. The troll affiliation is no more than a personal attack of someone with differing views. Name calling is your mental limitation, not mine.

Those are two facts worth remembering.

MARK GRAVE's picture

Your life choices are yours

Your life choices are yours and yours alone, and I respect them as long as you don't ask me of finance your choices. That is what being free is all about - reciprocity applies.

MARK GRAVE's picture

Lots of cut and paste, but let me address a few things.

Census data, however, shows that more than 90 percent of the benefit dollars
that entitlement and other mandatory programs[1] spend go to assist people
who are

elderly - A know lots of elderly who done need SS, but collected - means test....
seriously disabled - Frank Early is not seriously disabled, so that "all" is not the appropriate word to use.
members of working households — not
table-bodied, working-age Americans who choose not to work. -

AMERICA IS BROKE.... it borrows $0.40 every dollar. It will have to cut or cease to exist as a nation. People will get a lot of NOTHING when that happens. Do you seriously think America can keep spending at current levels. Now Obumma care is another drag on spending.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

Hey Mark let me address a few things, or better yet......

One thing in particular. You best be careful with what you accuse people of. It's one thing to carry on a dialogue, or even argue the subject. Your totally free to your own opinions.
With me, I only deal in what I can prove, with actual documentation. I also deal with witness testimony. I feel very confident that if I refer to you as an "idiot", I would have no problem here, finding character witnesses. How ever, when you start making statements such as, "Frank Earley, is not seriously disabled", I suggest using your "Google" finger to search the term "Libel". You can't just go around making assumptions like that without sufficient proof.
I would say that you are really pissed off that I can live a relatively comfortable life, even though I'm totally disabled. You seem to be hardest hit by the fact that I have the audacity to drive a very nice vehicle. I probably have a lot of things you don't have. That in itself is no indication of how disabled I am. You can sit there and spit out fact after fact, thinking people will assume your some sort of genius. Wasn't it just a couple days ago, a Mr. Rand Paul, was caught plagiarizing "Wikipedia"? Ya he used the paragraph almost word for word. You see, just being able to dictate the facts, isn't any proof that you know anything. You hide behind Wikipedia, and Google, in the hopes that the very few original statements you do make will be hidden between the paragraphs.
I really could care less about what you decide to use as factual. I do not however take kindly to someone calling me a lire . This whole thing started because of the behavior of people like you. People who cast a wide net when describing welfare. People who use the word welfare like it's some sort of curse. People who feel it's up to them to put the underprivileged people out there in their place for having the nerve to ask for help, people taking your hard earned money right out of your pocket. People who are just to damn annoyed by all those poor whining people always begging for charity. In other words people who don't measure up to you.
I pretty much don't care what you say to, or about me. Just keep one thing in mind. If you don't have the facts to back something up, I strongly suggest keeping your mouth shut..............................

RONALD RIML's picture

You think you can "Shame" Mark????

He'd have to have a conscience. His only point of vulnerability is his bottom....line.

Trolls don't have a

Trolls don't have a conscience. They exist only to push the buttons of the touchy and then sit back and mock them for reacting. This is SOP for all our conservative/libertarian friends Gravel, Arse, and Pirate.

MARK GRAVE's picture

I state my opinion. If

I state my opinion. If someone is that thinned skin to let it bother them, well, perhaps some maturing is in order.

RONALD RIML's picture

You may possibly mature some day.

When you learn to share.

MARK GRAVE's picture

Define sharing! First, your

Define sharing!

First, your comment is focused on the context of welfare. I focus on spending cuts. These to topics are not mutually exclusive. Just look at a pie chart showing where government spends money. There still would be plenty of money going to government to keep up our free handouts even if the budget is cut 33%. Washington DC needs simply to prioritize spending.

Moreover, I prefer teaching someone how to manage money, how to turn misfortune into change that empowers. I prefer to teach people how to fish rather than throw them a bone. I'm sharing my knowledge, which is much more valuable than a few extra dollars. By the way, time does cost me money; my sharing is not in dollars, but in a more tangible form.

RONALD RIML's picture

Mark Gravel: "By the way, time does cost me money"

- But very damn little gauged by the amount of time you piss away here.

MARK GRAVE's picture

Mobile computing devices

Mobile computing devices allow me to post while blocked in traffic, while eating lunch, or during any sliver of free time.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

Hey Mark, help me out here.........

I need you to settle a bet I have going, I'm sure I'm right, but only you can answer for sure. Can you walk and chew gum at the same time? I said no.........................

CAROLYN LIBBEY's picture

You really are obsessed!

You really are obsessed! Please don't kill someone in the process of computing "during any sliver of free time."

MARK GRAVE's picture

Blocked in traffic implies

Blocked in traffic implies zero velocity.

RONALD RIML's picture

And not paying attention to that which occurs around you.

Because it's all about YOU

MARK GRAVE's picture

Perhaps you have been

Perhaps you have been isolated in Maine too long. In my travels, I've been in some multi-hour traffic jams.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

You haven't seen traffic jams until............

You get stuck on Lexington Ave in New York City, during a hotel workers protest at four in the afternoon, man that was bigger than the Macy's parade......................

RONALD RIML's picture

As I was in Chicago, Boston, etc....

That's no excuse for your negligence.

Bob Woodbury's picture

Name calling is your mental limitation, not mine.

You need a life.

MARK GRAVE's picture

I have a very "rich" life.

I have a very "rich" life. I'm okay.

RONALD RIML's picture

In multi-hour traffic jams living in his electronic media...

Go for it!!!!

Bob Woodbury's picture

Sure doesn't...

...sound like it.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

Oh, I'm sorry, I need to cut in on this one.............

You prefer teaching someone how to manage money? You want to turn misfortune into change that empowers? You my friend, based on these statements are a hypocrite. You support people who do know how to manage money, know how to plan financially, plan for the unexpected, then when tragedy strikes, they use the knowledge they have. They continue living based on the planning for just a disaster. Then you turn around and call that person a fake for using the resources available to them to make it through. You ridicule them for abusing the very system that is put in place to assist the unfortunate, If you look closely at the rules, there are contingencies in place to enrich yourself along with the benefits. In other words you are allowed to still earn money. How ever, because I took advantage of those very explicit rules. I have turned a bad situation into a much better one. You have done nothing but criticize and throw insults at me for doing just what you now say you support. Man you ought to run for office, we could call you the new "Flipper", You go along with it now, after you didn't go along with it.
The fact that I decided not to let my illness disrupt my life long before I got sick, has you in attack mode. You automatically assume because I can drive a nice truck, I'm abusing the system, as if you never heard of financing. Yet you want to spread your Knowledge to the masses.
In my humble opinion, to best educate the masses, you would do better to have your mouth sewn shut............................

MARK GRAVE's picture

P.S.

There is a simple solution to your predicament. Of you don’t want people to provide an opinions on what you post, consider not posting it. It is that simple.

Sincerely,

America's Dr. Right

FRANK EARLEY's picture

So Dr.Right..............

You read my post. You have been caught in hypocrisy, how do you plead? Do you deny saying something, then ridiculing me for doing the very same thing you preach? I think your just jealous that I have more nice things than you do. Something Ron mentioned earlier, has me wondering something. With all you blabbering about your customers, your companies output, you interviewing potential employees, and your posts appearing around the clock. What the hell do you do for a living. I know when I was able to work, I was very limited in my computer time. You must have one hell of a flexible schedule. By the way, I still want to know why you want people to be financially responsible and then criticize them for being successful.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

I don't mind opinions..............

I tend to focus on correct, you can't accept the truth so you go with the next best thing, lies and falsehoods. I honestly believe, that in your little mind, you've convinced yourself that if you keep repeating the lies, they become true.................

Bob Woodbury's picture

It's all...

...in the comprehension of your little bombastic mind.

MARK GRAVE's picture

My goal is to teach

My goal is to teach independence to all who wants to learn.

Given the resource you seek is taxpayer money, then you open yourself up to taxpayer scrutiny.

To make your long story short, I criticize a law that allows people to acquire assets or expensive toys while receiving taxpayer dollars. The solution is to means test.

Now, just because I have expectations that you may or may not meet, does not mean you can compel me to keep quite.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

Oh Hell, If I could shut you ,up......

I'd be in line for the Nobel Peace Prize. You need to educate yourself. As I said, I have paid my way into SSDI. I know exactly how much I've contributed. As of right know, based on that amount, it will be quite a few years before I have received what I paid in. simple as that. You are wrong, and your also very rude, ( I just had to throw that in). The letter "I" in SSDI stands for insurance. I had long term disability insurance which I purchased, it kept me going for years before I was told to switch to SSDI. Now given your way of thinking, all those years were being paid by the taxpayers? How is one form of insurance different from another. In both instances, those who pay weekly or monthly premiums, end up paying the benefits as they become needed. Now when I need my car insurance to get my car fixed, should I feel guilt, after all that money isn't coming out of my pocket? You may be a policy holder at the time, meaning the repairs are partially coming out of your pocket. Please explain how paying premiums into an insurance policy, should result in being guilty of screwing the tax payers, upon having to collect on said insurance. I just can't follow your assertions..........................

MARK GRAVE's picture

"As I said, I have paid my

"As I said, I have paid my way into SSDI."

You and your entire generation have a mischaracterization of the tax system. Other that a letter, the US government is not in the insurance business. Funny how simplistic people can be fooled with a name, and ignore how the program actually work. Yet, that is what you want to believe. In my opinion, you should not be receiving SSDI if you can afford a new luxury SUV, proof that you don't need the benefit.

By the way, you never listed the name of your "disease"?

FRANK EARLEY's picture

I don't know why I can't just drop this......................

The word insurance is not just there for decoration, it is a form of Government run insurance. None of us has any choice as to whether or not we wish to subscribe. How do you explain the fact that I have paid in way more than I have received to this point. Also just how does a person who needs income, as paltry as it is, refuse SSDI, what would you do in my situation?
I've mentioned my disease many times, it's called Peripheral Neuropathy. Every time I see the words in print, they look so innocent.
One more thing, I don't know how old you are but just what generation am I a part of. and why do you consider everything I say simplistic, yet you preach out and out falsehoods, and that's just fine?

MARK GRAVE's picture

How did you acquire

How did you acquire Peripheral Neuropathy and what part of your body does it impact?

FRANK EARLEY's picture

It's pretty simple really......

You get it the same as you get a cold I guess. Actually they don't know what causes it, Lot's of theories though. What I have is called a Idiopathic Peripheral Neuropathy. It's a "central nervous system" disease, and it causes extreme excruciating nerve pain, like having your legs plugged into a wall socket. It never goes away, but they can calm it down some. Also, because I have no sensory feeling in my legs or feet, I have no balance. I can walk, but if I stop concentrating on balancing myself, I go down like a sack of potatoes. Which on at least one occasion, had two little old french women scolding at me for drunk shopping at Hanaford. I was laughing so hard I couldn't apologize to them, while trying to indiscreetly fix the Pepsi display I knocked over in the process. Hell I never got accused of drunk shopping, even back when I used to shop drunk. It was fun had by all.

MARK GRAVE's picture

Just in learning mode.

Have you ever had any of the following ailments?

1. Diabetes
2. Leprosy
3. Vitamin deficiency
4. Reactions to Medication (e.g., chemotherapy)
5. Traumatic injury to the legs or lower back
6. Excessive alcohol consumption
7. Immune system disease or infection

FRANK EARLEY's picture

Please no armchair doctoring.................

I have spent way to much time answering questions. If you really want to learn about the fun side of this, try looking up the actual neuropathic testing they did. primarily my personal favorite, it must be I had about ten of them, check out EMG's. I can't remember what the letters stand for. Nothing like a doctor shooting electricity through your nerves to see how long it takes to get from point A to point B.

MARK GRAVE's picture

I cannot help but wonder why

I cannot help but wonder why you decide now to change your verbosity about your illness. Could I be on to something?

FRANK EARLEY's picture

No, just busy today...

Besides when it comes to my illness, I'm just about talked out.........

MARK GRAVE's picture

So, what was it. Drug abuse?

So, what was it. Drug abuse? Alcohol abuse? Diabetes?

We are getting close to the truth aren't we, and it is starting to make you unconformable.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

Please let me know...........

If you can figure it out, you got all my doctors beat. look up the definition of "idiopathic", that's the official verdict so far..........

Betty Davies's picture

EMG = electromyelogram

I had one of those--ouchie!

MARK GRAVE's picture

I favor removing your moral

I favor removing your moral hazard with government means testing. Let's hope that you are still around to see that happen.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

Mark my good man...........

"Removing my moral hazard", this is not an answer. I asked a specific question, you either answer it, or admit you don't know the answer. You've made some pretty severe accusations, and you need to back them up. I hope your not in traffic right this minute, the more you type, the more you sound like your on drugs. Keep going though I enjoy this.....................

FRANK EARLEY's picture

Lets discuss "means testing"

I have never heard that phrase before, I'm assuming it's some sort of physical test to determine something. To hear you put it, I'm way to healthy to be driving my nice truck, so what exactly would you like to have tested. What particular results would satisfy your need for revenge or what ever?
You keep squawking but you don't make any sense. What do you want me to do, that I already haven't done. This could be important for any other fake cripples out there....................

RONALD RIML's picture

Mark's been tested - and he's Mean as Hell......

Was there ever any doubt?????

MARK GRAVE's picture

That is right, and I'll do

That is right, and I'll do every thing I can to cut the government hand outs to all of you.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

You do that.............

But you won't get my shiny Lincoln..............

RONALD RIML's picture

Screw with my earnings

And I'll cut your 'Hands' off......

MARK GRAVE's picture

Yawn.... My goal is to make

Yawn....

My goal is to make the government send less. It is not personal Ronald. If it affects you, so be it.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

Just where is the government sending things that bothers you?

Thats some patriotic endeavor if you ask me...............

RONALD RIML's picture

Get some oxygen

Yawning brains are starved for it.

MARK GRAVE's picture

More like lacking

More like lacking intellectual communications, something the respondent is not providing or can provide.

CAROLYN LIBBEY's picture

Pretty passive-aggressive. I

Pretty passive-aggressive. I hope you don't have to deal with the public face-to-face too often.

Bob Woodbury's picture

Keep "quite"

what?

FRANK EARLEY's picture

Anyone ever tried that shooting gallery down at FunTown?

The one that has the old guy playing the piano, and all the little things that pop up and ring a bell when you shoot them. I have a funny feeling that next summer there will be a new annoying little target popping up. It will be the "Mark Gravel" target, with his hand s up in the air. I don't even know what he looks like but I can still imagine everyone trying to ring Gravell's bell.

Bob Woodbury's picture

I have reason to believe...

...that is not his real name.

MARK GRAVE's picture

You are correct. In come

You are correct. In come communities, they call me God :-)

CAROLYN LIBBEY's picture

In "come" communities?

In "come" communities?

RONALD RIML's picture

Marcus Gravel writes: "You are correct. In come communities"

So you let it slip.... You think you're Johnny Wadd...

And you do software development for the Porn Industry.

MARK GRAVE's picture

Like most of the facts you

Like most of the facts you try to present here, this one too is wrong. I'm not a software developer. You are showing your ignorance...again.

RONALD RIML's picture

So you're a 'Producer' for the Porn Industry

You keep claiming you're a 'Maker' - (always on 'The Make')

MARK GRAVE's picture

Now you are displaying your

Now you are displaying your stupidity for all readers and the world to see. Yet, I'm not surprised; it is in line with your intellectual level.

RONALD RIML's picture

You neglected to add the --Damn Gravel....

'cause we know better......

Bob Woodbury's picture

You need help.

A LOT of help.

Bob Woodbury's picture

Well said...

Well said.

MARK GRAVE's picture

Saying something well does

Saying something well does not mean it is cogent. Kind of like listening to Obama. He speaks well, but we get soiled with his lies.

RONALD RIML's picture

You wouldn't know the 'Truth' if it backsided you

in your 401.....

Nice job with the misleading

Nice job with the misleading links. How about providing the link that shows the number of "false", "mostly false", and "pants on fire" statements are statements is just a hair over half the number of "True" and "Mostly True" statements. Never mind, I know you won't, so I will:
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/

Most of those false statements came from the Presidential campaign, in which his opponent's false/mostly false/pants on fire statements exceeded the number of true or mostly true statements. (In terms of percentages, Romney's at least mostly truthful statements eclipsed his at least mostly true statements.

So, you prefer which, the one who tells falsehoods most of the time, or the one who tells the truth most of the time?

MARK GRAVE's picture

True or false (i.e. lie) is a

True or false (i.e. lie) is a binary operator. When I say the President lies, that is a fact, he lies.

Moreover, lying during a Presidential campaign seams like an important time not to lie, ya think?

We can also look as some most recent lies that impact the American population greatly:
1. If you like your healthcare plan, you can keep it - period.
2. If you like your Doctor, you can keep them - period.
3. We'll save the American family $2500 a year on premiums.
4. I will not raise taxes if you make below $250K - not that Obamacare is a tax.

Every time Obama opens his mouth, he lies about something.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

I guess I have to agree with this one..............

I mean after all, if anyone knows everything there is to know about lie's, it would have to be the master himself, Mr. Gravel.............

MARK GRAVE's picture

I feel no shame for speaking

I feel no shame for speaking my mind.

RONALD RIML's picture

You're beyond shame.......

Sociopaths and Psychopaths: Have you no shame?

"Shame, along with guilt, embarrassment and pride, is a moral emotion. Shame is the emotion we experience when we discover a defect in ourselves. The expression of shame is a submissive response. It is an acknowledgment to others of the defect and the decline in our status that results from the defect. This submissive response shows to others our attempts to conform, improve ourselves, apologize, and make amends.

Early experts in psychopathy documented that the absence of shame is part of the disorder. According to Dr. Cleckley, author of The Mask of Sanity, psychopaths are incapable of feeling shame. Because they do not feel shame, they blame everyone else for their problems. “The psychopath apparently cannot accept substantial blame for the various misfortunes which befall him and which he brings down upon others,” Cleckley says. “Whether judged in the light of his conduct, of his attitude, or of material elicited in psychiatric examination, he [the psychopath] shows almost no sense of shame.“

MARK GRAVE's picture

Yes, when you cannot

Yes, when you cannot challenge someone with facts, just launch a personal attack. Ron..nald has a reputation for that behavior. Ron..nald, liberalism is what?

RONALD RIML's picture

I've tired of challenging you with facts.

You ignore them, obfuscate, lie, misrepresent, deceive, ad nauseum

And continue your own 'personal attacks' as you decry them in others.

Fetch, Fido...........I see you salivating.

MARK GRAVE's picture

"You ignore them, obfuscate,

"You ignore them, obfuscate, lie, misrepresent, deceive, adnauseum
And continue your own 'personal attacks' as you decry them in others"

Simply excuses because I don't fall in line with your philosophy, especially your hatred for wealth accumulation. You wear a hue of green, and it is not the color of money that you depict.

CAROLYN LIBBEY's picture

Be careful--he's got a short

Be careful--he's got a short fuse.

RONALD RIML's picture

Be careful of what, Carol???

Are you paranoid schizophrenic?

If you fear people on these forums, perhaps you should seek professional treatment. Until then, you might take a hiatus until you get over your anxieties.

MARK GRAVE's picture

Wow, I happen to agree with

Wow, I happen to agree with Ronald. That does not happen too often.

RONALD RIML's picture

That's "Ron-ald" to you,

Buster........

MARK GRAVE's picture

You mean "Ron...nald". You

You mean "Ron...nald". You need to pronounce the "n" twice with an pause in between with a sarcastic tone.

RONALD RIML's picture

You'll have to talk to the Nuns - Sisters of the Order of Little

Mercy: they really had it down to a fine art....... ;)

MARK GRAVE's picture

I did forget to define the

I did forget to define the facial expression - look down in a condescending manner as you are saying the name. Pause between the n (or other syllable) , repeat last letter of syllable twice, use sarcastic tone.

RONALD RIML's picture

Or Little Sisters of the Order of No Mercy.......

I'll have a 'Flashback' soon.......

MARK GRAVE's picture

I spent three years in

I spent three years in catholic school. I recall a number of spanked bottoms. I can relate.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

I spent seven years in one.........

and for some reason to this day, I can't use anything but a #2 pencil, with out the fear of the Wrath of God...........

Bob Woodbury's picture

Hear, hear!!!!

Well said.

Betty Davies's picture

Debt is not what you think it is

The US economy is like a corporation, not like a family. Federal debt (bonds, for example) is similar to stocks sold by a corporation--they bring in money, and are traded. It's a normal part of doing business. Being in debt and having that debt rise and paying down that debt has been a normal part of government in Western countries for centuries. The United States has been in debt every year except one. Debt under President Obama is not new. What's more important than "debt" per se is the debt-to-GDP ratio, and that's not a problem at this point.

"Some of the debt certainly exists, like the roughly $11.6 trillion owed to foreign and private creditors. But that isn’t the debt anyone’s worried about. If we stopped adding to it tomorrow, the debt as it stands would pose essentially zero threat to the country’s fiscal health, as the ongoing growth of the economy would send our debt-to-GDP ratio dropping like a rock. So the debt that’s got everyone worried is the part we haven’t yet incurred. And that debt, by definition, does not exist. It’s not a certainty, it’s merely a projection by the Congressional Budget Office. And trying to model how the federal budget, not to mention the entire American economy, will behave years or even decades in the future is a devilishly treacherous business.

"For instance: one of Rep. Paul Ryan’s (R-WI) favorite talking points in 2011 was that the computer simulations CBO uses to model the economy crash when they attempt to account for the debt load in 2037. Imagine trying to model the 2011 economy in 1985. Things you’d never see coming include (among other things) the Internet, fracking, massive advances in computing power, the renewable energy boom, three wars, a massive recession, and Harry Potter. And predictions can be hard even over shorter time frames. In 1995, CBO predicted the deficit in 2000 would be well over $200 billion. We ran a surplus of $236 billion.

"...neither the impending Baby Boomer retirement nor growing health care costs make astronomical debt a certainty, despite the insistence of the conservative and centrist punditariat. With respect to the Boomers, economist Dean Baker ran the numbers and found that if productivity growth in the economy clocks in at one percent until 2035 (a very conservative estimate) the resulting gains will swamp the added retiree burden." [http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/02/24/1626801/debt-does-not-exist/?mobile=nc]

MARK GRAVE's picture

Oh, you cannot be so wrong.

Oh, you cannot be so wrong. No wonder there are so many people who have no wealth. They simply do not understand money.

A bond is a loan. Yes, loans or notes can be bought and sold on the open market. By the one who took out the loan must pay that money back with interest. There is no upside for the borrower like there is for the lender. The government is the borrower and cannot hold the note; therefore, they cannot trade the note.

Look at an auto loan for example. What is the financial upside of your car loan? There is none.

" debt-to-GDP ratio dropping like a rock"

Wrong again. Perhaps you meant that the budget deficit is dropping, yet still very high.

Bob Woodbury's picture

You say:

"There is no upside for the borrower like there is for the lender." So the improved infrastructure, improved educational opportunities for our young people to keep them in Maine and offer them good paying jobs like you couldn't find and other improvements unaffordable any other way are not upsides. Somehow I feel it is you who doesn't understand money.

MARK GRAVE's picture

Perhaps we measure upside

Perhaps we measure upside differently, and I don't consider a warm feeling in the belly an upside. Not all infrastructure improvement produce tangible upsides; moreover, if the government spent less, it could finance infrastructure repairs, like road up keep, from the yearly operating budget.

Here is a question for you. Does financing a house on a 30 yr. fixed mortgage have an upside for you? If yes, what is that upside?

Betty Davies's picture

The statistics

"In August 2013, there were 3.0 job seekers per job opening in the Northeast region, a decrease from July 2013's level of 3.5. "

http://www.labor.ny.gov/stats/job-seekers-per-opening.shtm

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