T. Shields: Problems with Obamacare

“Obamacare” is suffering from the results of careless preparation without testing it first. We should have seen this coming after Congress passed it without reading it. The exemptions from participating in it for special people are glaring discriminations.

The U.S. Constitution does not give the federal government the power to require citizens to buy a product. Now the government has required, by law, that its citizens buy a product, or be fined. The Supreme Court decision that Obamacare is constitutional only if regarded as a “tax” is a weak excuse to allow that law.

The Democrats, aided by their liberal media allies, blamed the Republicans for the several days of government shutdown. Curiously, when the Republican House later passed a bill that completely funded the entire government with the exception of “Obamacare” and the Democrat-dominated Senate refused to vote on it, the Republicans were still blamed for the government shutdown.

Legislators quickly learn that any law they pass can be amended or cancelled by the next legislature. The Democrats act as if Obamacare is etched in granite and impossible to amend or overturn. It simply is another legislative act, the same as all of the others.

I hope the Sun Journal will publish a list of the congressional delegation’s votes on the important issues. Too long, voters have not had transparency on how Maine is represented in Washington, D.C.

The same should apply on how the area is represented in the Legislature in Augusta.

Thomas Shields, Auburn

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Forced to buy a product

You could also say that the government is forcing you to pay for the product you are demanding at the emergency room door. The alternative is to turn away the heart attack victim who has no insurance or to force those who have insurance to cover the cost and more in case there are more of him coming. As for shutting down the government the verdict is in. Republicans and Democrats negotiated a budget and the Democrats gave in to Republican Ryan budget demands only to have the Republicans recant their offer in order to make a statement on Obamacare. The only statement they made is that their desire to use this as a platform to raise money for future presidential bids outweighed the 6 billion dollar cost to the American tax payer. Obama had nothing to do with it. The Democrats could just as easily demand universal gun registration or single payer health care or threaten to shut down the military. It would be the same. Then we could blame the Republicans for not giving in and causing the government to shut down.

Claire, what tune will you

Claire, what tune will you sing when retired teachers are sucked into Obamacare? It will happen. You know that, right?


Me too

Where do I get one of those crystal balls? I need one too. Is it one of those balls you ask a question to and shake it and it gives you an answer? I'm too old to worry about what happens in the next millennium. In any case when we vote out the present governor, I will have a lot less to worry about my retirement than I do with Obamacare.

we have ourselves a scholar

who I bet never read the ACA that our legislators did not read either! Does the scholar know that emergency rooms didn't turn away patients who have life threatening conditions regardless of not having insurance BEFORE the ACA? Does the scholar know that the ACA now disallows a hospital from treating a patient with no insurance and that there is a mandate to sign such patients up with Obamacare. Does the scholar know that through the Medicare program that the Estate Recovery Program allows DHHS to take a persons home from them in exchange for services that they don't want. Scholar, you need to read more before you spout. You're tired. Hail to Governor LePage for paying the hospitals! Now please appeal Obamacare in Maine!

Get us some jobs so people can get off the couch and work for a living. Ms. scholar here doesn't need one though. She's dictating what should be but says it doesn't affect her; she says she is too old to worry but here she us telling us all what should be for us. Mind your business then Ms. Scholar

Is that like voting out Mayor

Is that like voting out Mayor MacDonald? ;-)

MARK GRAVEL's picture

I had a discussion with a

I had a discussion with a Soviet Union immigrant yesterday. He was brought to tears over Obamacare. He likened Obamacare to what he saw and ran away from under communism. He predicted that under Obamacare, we’ll see the following:

1. The Administration will force all Americans to choose from three health plans – bronze, silver, gold.
2. After all Americans are on one of those three plans, they will be force to one and only one plan.
3. After that, the one plan will atrophy and everyone will suffer because law will prohibit alternatives.

He closed with saying that citizens where being told that all these changes were necessary for equality. He said that equality never was the goal; the goal was to have an elite ruling class that lived very well on the backs of others.

He said, this is what is coming to America; Obamacare is just a single step along the way.

I walked away from our discussion with goose bumps; his story was very chilling.



When did he say he was leaving the United States and where is the totally unfettered capitalist country he is moving to?

MARK GRAVEL's picture

P.S. It would be a shame for


It would be a shame for people like you to accept standing knee deep in shit because all the other alternatives are waste deep or higher. That is the spirit of a follower.

The spirit of an individualist is to eliminate the shit one is standing in.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

I don't think the old guy is

I don't think the old guy is going anywhere at his age, except perhaps to see his maker.

Moreover, the old man's story focused on personal freedoms (or the lose thereof), which is only loosely coupled to "unfettered capitalism." The freedom to chose your destiny. This man is an individualist, something many people today, including you, have no concept of what freedom means.

Perhaps it is akin to caging a tiger while rationalizing that it is for the tiger's own good.

The other takeaway you should get from this man's story is the only equality you get from communism is equal misery unless you are part of the apparatchik.

Don't you care about personal freedom, or are you settled with having people telling you what to do?

FRANK EARLEY's picture

You know Mark, I got to give you credit.............

Your line of BS is about as consistent as I've seen in a while. You just keep it coming at breakneck speeds. Whats amazing is that you seem to actually believe what you say. Now including an "imaginary immigrant",now that's beautiful. Only you could conceive the idea, of using an imaginary friend to bolster your already over burdened ego. I can't wait to see whats next, interviews with this imaginary immigrant? Maybe the "imaginary immigrant" could start posting on your behalf. How about you find out your "imaginary Immigrant" is actually a Liberal. The possibilities are endless.......................

AL PELLETIER's picture


He got the idea from Clint Eastwood and the empty chair.
He now is a meals on wheels volunteer and has four vehicles yet has ten hours a day to spend torturing us in this forum.
Remember Frank, this is the same Grovell who doesn't believe in giving his time and money to the less fortunate, maintaining they should have prepared for their old age or a possible disability. Such a bullshitter!

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Jelousy creates strange

Jelousy creates strange behaviors doesn't it. All of my vehicles are over a decage old and some are nearly two decades old. Unlike Maine were a vehicle is a rust bucket in under 10 years, vehicles practically last forever in the desert.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

Yes he does tend to spend a lot of time on here..........

Then again, since he can hire people to do the work while he collects the money after paying them a paltry sum, I guess he can afford to pay someone to volunteer his time for him. After all he does still have three other vehicles he can use for helping those less fortunate. He has also mentioned to me that he would rather see people fend for themselves, I think he said something like "teaching them to manage their money better". The problem is, he doesn't much care for people managing their money better than him. He is of the belief that if a person is for some reason disabled, they are destined to live in squaller. You see, being disabled is equal to being dirt poor according to his way of thinking. I love how he gets all frustrated at the mere thought of a disabled person with money to spend. It's easy to tell when he is getting upset, for some reason his spell-check stops working. Oh well must be all that pressure from being perfect.................

MARK GRAVEL's picture

How sad that you have to

How sad that you have to dismiss things that don't fit in your framework as imaginary. I volunteer for meals on wheels, and this individual is just one of my stops. Nothing more, nothing less. This is one of his many stories, nothing more, nothing less.

Whether you need to dismiss it as imaginary is between you and your god.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

OH this ought to be good...........

Mark, how many meals on wheels can you fit in that car? What do you do, swing by McDonald's for some dollar menu items?

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Frank, we've been listening

Frank, we've been listening to your life's story for a couple of yeas now. Who the hell are you to judge whether Mark's story is real or imaginary. I should think you'd be the last guy to participate in that sort of lowly s**t.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Kudos. I have also been


I have also been listing "careers" that Frank claims to have had, while that are large in number, which makes be suspicious, I give him the benefit of doubt. Besides, I believe that Frank brings enough misery on to himself.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Have you ever looked at

Have you ever looked at Dosh's career path judging from his posts? It's like "Catch Me If You Can".

MARK GRAVEL's picture

It takes too much effort to

It takes too much effort to even read what Dosh writes...

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Pretty tough stuff without a

Pretty tough stuff without a cryptographer.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

Imaginary careers, what to believe????????

Every "job" I have mentioned is real, I did them all, I had two distinct careers with numerous jobs throughout my working life. Especially with truck driving, sometimes you need to take a break and try other things. I took that rout a few times. I really don't care I you guys think I am telling the truth or not.
Yes it's true, the story of my life is getting old, Maybe it's time for a new life altering disease, maybe something a little more interesting this time. I'll still use that scenario to help point out the need for certain health care as well as stronger and much more accessible assistance for those less fortunate. Much like Mark, wishing he could teach the masses how he handles money, I want to help people who find themselves with little or no way of helping themselves. I also enjoy pointing out the many cuts and jabs the Governor makes toward the poor. This started right after he cut prescription coverage for the elderly in Maine. As for bringing misery on myself, that's ridiculous. I'm quite comfortable, I have everything I need or want, I get to do what ever I want, when ever i want to. I'm making up for all the years I missed fishing when I was sick. Of course there is ample time for my favorite pastime of all, Responding to Mark Gravel's posts. Nothing makes the time fly by more than that. Oh, and I can't leave out my other buddy, a Mr. Bob White. I swear, I think their long lost brothers..............................................................

MARK GRAVEL's picture

"Yes it's true, the story of

"Yes it's true, the story of my life is getting old..." BINGO

"Maybe it's time for a new life altering disease, maybe something a little more interesting this time." The victim mentality.

"I get to do what ever I want, when ever i want to." How can this be if you are "truely" disabled? Self-incrimination?

FRANK EARLEY's picture

Yes, I'm the victim, your the hypocrite.........

Yes, the next disease will be something more obvious. Here you go again, do as I say not as I do. You tantalize us all with the tale of the joker with no arms who was some sort of expert at everything. Whom you described as being able to do remarkable feats of dexterity. Yet the fact that I can do what I want to, is somehow unbecoming of a true disabled person. You seem to have some pretty stereotypical ideas as to what a disabled person can and can not do, unless you feel a particular disability is less severe than another. Am I mistaken? Are you or are you not a hypocrite? You champion your own style of cripple, then put others down based on your own interpretation of disabled.
Reading your posts, I can't help going back to a story I followed when I was in school in 1998 or 99. I was doing a term paper on computer viruses, I did all sorts of research on the different types of viruses out there the constant bombardment of those little buggers, and most of all, how to rid your computer of them. The one story I followed was that of some guy on the west coast, who was threatening some major upload, and had a specific date. It was to affect some particular operating system on a specific date. He would contact news papers and radio stations with cryptic hints as to what day this calamity was to wreak havoc. Looking back it does seem pretty comical. People were all consumed with this bug, the techy world was going crazy. I remember imagining this guy in this huge hi tech laboratory, wires plugging in to everything, blinking lights. This whole thing was a precursor to the approach of Y2k. and all the uproar over that fiasco. The funny part was when they actually caught this guy. Turns out, this seemingly high tech, computer genius, turned out to be a thirty five year old, unemployed guy, on his home computer with a dial up modem, an old Pentium 1 processor, working out of his mothers basement. The guy had to shield his eyes when he was led out of the cellar. Turns out as I would later learn, this describes most of the most prolific computer criminals in history. The FBI has done profiles on internet tech criminals, and they are usually some snot nosed kid in his parents basement. This reminds me of the same type who plant themselves in front of a computer and try to push everyone's buttons with their seemingly unending supply of stupid comments. Does this remind you of anyone????????????

MARK GRAVEL's picture

I'll work vigorously to

I'll work vigorously to ensure your (and others) benefits are cut prior to the onset of you next faux disease.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

Do say........................

You are speaking through an orifice not meant for language, you might see a doctor for that.........

MARK GRAVEL's picture

I know that thought treatens

I know that thought treatens you, so your personal attack is not unexpected, emotional, but not unexpected.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

I haven't been.................

I haven't been "treatened" by anyone since seventh grade..............................

MARK GRAVEL's picture

This not a threat to you; my

This not a threat to you; my political position and political action threatens a source of your income, SSDI; hence, it puts you on the defensive. I understand that human emotion.

FRANK EARLEY's picture

Thank you so much..........

I'm not so sure exactly what you mean, but I am glad to see you got the "H" button fixed on your keyboard..............

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Details, please.

Details, please.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Please who live in bubbles

Please who live in bubbles shouldn't go around shooting darts.

FRANK EARLEY's picture


What's that you say????????????????

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Parrotspeak......he got into

Parrotspeak......he got into the turpentine bucket again.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

I actually have four

I actually have four vehicles. I just take one of my other rides that is more suitable for the task.

RONALD RIML's picture

Only four.

A mere pauper.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

You see Ron..nald. Just

You see Ron..nald. Just because someone has more cars or faster cars or newer cars than I, I don't envy the way you do.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

That is more than I need.

That is more than I need.

RONALD RIML's picture

You're more than we need.....

Must be nice being full of yourself.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Like a slice or port pie on

Like a slice or port pie on Christmas morning.


Personal freedom

I care a lot about personal freedom. I don't see a lot of it in anarchy however. All I see gratification for self-centered bullies. You can see a lot of personal freedom in the looters stealing from the typhoon victims but it's not personal freedom for the victims. Freedom at the cost of someone else's welfare is not really freedom for the one paying the price. That being said there is no society in which anarchy has given freedom to anybody. When you live in society you have to compromise and accept that everybody has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and your whims and gripes don't supersede everyone else's. The alternative is to live outside society which is a choice that is becoming more and more untenable due to population growth and the trend toward urbanization. You can't eschew society and live in it and enjoy its benefits at the same time unless you are the King. Our country is full of desperate loners trying to do it who end up committing suicide because it does not work and only ends up making you crazy. As for the neurotic fear of USSR Communism that you keep bringing up. The cold war is over and McCarthy is dead. I guess you can't kill an idea even a bad one. Bolshevism is not coming back any more than kingdoms are so relax.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

One last point. While

One last point. While McCarthy is dead, the philosophy of collectivism is alive and well.

RONALD RIML's picture

I know a guy who collected 55 cars - all classic rag-tops.....

- in heated garages.

His collectivism shot your four cars all to hell. Piker.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Good for the guy you know. I

Good for the guy you know. I hope he has some classics. My vechiles are utilitarnian, they are owned to be used and not to admire.

That said, the good thing about freedom is that your "guy" can own as many cars as he wants. The great thing about capatilism is that if people buy lots of models of a particular brand, the automobile corporation makes more of them to sell.


Go to:

MARK GRAVEL's picture

How about a working link...

How about a working link...



Is that the new term? We have gotten tired of throwing around accusations of communism and fascism have we? Well how is collectivism different from community, I wonder. I guess one requires responsible adults and the other self-centered adolescents. I read this week that a real man is not one who is different from a woman but one who is different from a boy. Perhaps that is the difference.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

"Well how is collectivism

"Well how is collectivism different from community, I wonder."

In a free society, on can chose to be a member of the collective or not.

Under collectivism, the individual is forced. Force is not freedom.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

I said this about you before,

I said this about you before, but I'll say it again to refresh the readers memory.

You always set up a false dichotomy argument. Freedom and individual choice does not mean anarchy.

Lastly, the dividing line between communism is not binary. It has many shades of grey. You do touch on a good point. That is many ideological believes need an enemy. Your enemy is individualism and freedom, which you have to link to anarchy and chaos in order to scare people into collectivism.



Maybe I have you confused with another Mark. Are you not the one who wants to do away with government and who wants to pay no taxes? How those two things do not lead to anarchy, my poor ignorant female brain cannot fathom. Perhaps fairness and justice just happens and it's free where you live but it doesn't seem to be that way anywhere else.

 's picture

May I?

Here's another false choice: either you accept the level we have of big government inefficiency and waste, or you want to destroy government and eliminate taxes altogether.

I read most of Mark's posts and I have never seen a word about the silliness you imply. How is it anarchy to want to restrict government to its Constitutional responsibilities? To demand that it use our money wisely? It isn't anarchy, but it's easier to say that of others than to defend your own positions.

Please drop the condescending nonsense about your brain, whatever its gender. Ignorance is chosen, stupidity is inherited.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

P.S. The false dichotomy


The false dichotomy argument ensures that Claire's choice always appears to be the more favorable of the two choices, regardless of whether the comparison is accurate or not.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Yes you may, and thank

Yes you may, and thank you.

Claire's form of argumentation is to set up a false dichotomy. For example, complete anarchy or government control.

The fact that she has to create an extreme situation to compare against her ideal model speaks volumes. How? because a more realistic comparison would probably make her alternative unattractive. Hence, the false dichotomy.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

There you go again with a

There you go again with a straw man argument this time.

I preach "smaller government", which does not mean "NO" government by definition nor does it mean no taxes.

Lastly, who determines what is fair or just? Just because you don't get your way with other people does no mean the outcome was not fair or just. For example, how is it fair or just to get other people to pay for your living expenses? Is that fair to those individuals that must work and pay for their family and yours?

MARK GRAVEL's picture

There are a number of great

There are a number of great aspects of Obamacare. Let me enumerate them.


Thank you for listening.

I find this interesting. What

I find this interesting. What about you Riml?


RONALD RIML's picture

"Independent Journal Review?"


I belong to 'Service Organizations' to watch out for my interests. The 'Independent Journal Review' is hardly independent nor without bias. Published by "The Independent Institute" - it has been found to be 'Independent' in name only, having a Republican and Conservative slant. One example of them being outed: Evaluating Websites – Lindzen Example

I'll stick with my Service Organizations - which are Right Wing enough, without your sheep in Nazi clothing.

Riml states: "I belong to

Riml states: "I belong to 'Service Organizations' to watch out for my interests."

You have people looking out for YOUR interests? Screw everyone else as long as your interests are protected? I thought you were all about the taking care of the people Ron? I will chuckle when you get sucked into the Obamacare machine. It is coming. You know that, right?

RONALD RIML's picture

What is this "Obamacare Machine" you are warning me against??

Robert? Tell us about the pitfalls and dangers......

RONALD RIML's picture

Correction - Wife hurrying me out the door....

"I'll stick with my Service Organizations - which are Right Wing enough, without your Nazis in Sheeps' clothing."

 's picture

Not far enough

The real problem with Obamacare is that it does not go far enough. Single payer is the only way to go.

Gravel you are a borderline troll.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

It's all good as long as

It's all good as long as someone else is paying, right?

AL PELLETIER's picture

Borderline, Roger?

He's full fledged.

indeed he is, which is why

indeed he is, which is why the only time I respond is when I want to poke him with a stick.

AL PELLETIER's picture

Good thinking

The stick and poke method is how I pick up dog turds.

Case in point...

Case in point...

Beverly Gallant's picture

obama care

Isn't it funny? no one talks about people being forced to buy "Auto Insurance" mandated by the government. It's the same product for a different reason.
Why are insurances so expensive? because they know they can be because they don't have to sell their product, people have to go to them to get it.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Maybe so, but no one forces

Maybe so, but no one forces you to buy the car that requires carrying the insurance you are forced to buy. The really weird part is that everyone who owns a car is required by law to carry liability insurance, but everyone who does that, at least in Maine, is also required to carry Uninsured Motorist Coverage. How sick is that?

RONALD RIML's picture

Do you carry a signed waiver that you refuse all medical

help and assistance; especially in the event that you are found unconscious and in immediate need of such??

If not, and you are found in extremis, emergency and medical personnel have a duty to stabilize you until an 'Authorized Person' can give the permission to just let your cheap ass go.

So why rack up insurance and medical bills you don't want - plaster yourself with disclaimers and you can just be carted off to the boneyard - much to the joy and satisfaction of your heirs.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

For whom was this post

For whom was this post intended?

 's picture

Why is there a significant

Why is there a significant range in price for auto insurance for pretty much the same coverage? Competition - something that's been missing in Maine from health insurance ever since Augusta mandated all kinds of coverages, while pretending to control costs. The little guys couldn't stay and lose money, so they left the state in the hands of the big guys. Thanks, Democrats, for imposing Obamacare-lite on us 20 years early.

RONALD RIML's picture

Yes, Tom - the Republicans shut the Government down.

You expect Obama to take responsibility for Obamacare - yet you would have Republicans absolve themselves of the responsibility for shutting down the Government???

How odd....... Unless you're a terrorist.

 's picture

No, Ron - Obama shut the government down.

Harry Reid did the dirty work so Obama wouldn't have to take responsibility. That's how it has worked for 4.5 years - the entire Democrat structure, including most of the media, runs interference so the ?ne can play bad golf and plan his monthly vacation. You want to talk absolution? Consider the imperial edicts to absolve his union buddies from participation in Obamacare. But, like all his promises, that one is empty too, and even the goons are beginning to realize they've been had.

Interesting that you bring up terrorists. Now we finally see Obama's plan for dealing with them. He's going to force them to die laughing when they see the Marines arrive wearing their new girly caps. I wonder what he has in store for the Navy, Popeye.

RONALD RIML's picture

No Reply - LeBlanc is both a Liar and Stupid......

He has no defense against that.

RONALD RIML's picture

Mike - Are you a flat-out liar or simply very stupid????

Regarding your assertion that President Obama is going to force the Marines to wear 'Girly' caps. It appears you got your information from 'Fox' Propaganda which apparently knows nothing about the military.

What you call the 'Girly Cap" is the 'Dan Daly' cap. If you consider Sgt. Dan Daly a 'Girly' - you are obviously the most cowardly piss-ant in existence.

- "Sgt. Maj. Dan Daly, a two-time Medal of Honor recipient who yelled, “Come on, you sons of bitches, do you want to live forever?” as he led Marines into the fight at Belleau Wood during World War I, wore a cap similar to the option proposed by the survey."

Try reading 'Stars & Stripes" instead of listening to Fox: Marines shoot down Internet story on Obama’s alleged push for ‘girly hats’

RONALD RIML's picture


makes you feel good


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