Ever since the vote on Question 1, there has been a steady stream of complaints against the Catholic Church, and especially Bishop Richard Malone, about how Catholics oppose gay marriage.
The Catholic Church does not strive to win popularity contests. It has a mission, mandated by Jesus Christ, to lead people to salvation. Bishop Malone was not merely taking a personal stand on the gay marriage issue; he was doing what was required of him by God.
Many people voted no on Question 1 because of self-interest. Many Catholics and other Christians voted yes for the same reason. The Bible, which was assembled by the Catholic Church and is thus a basis for Catholic belief, states in many verses that people will be judged according to their actions. If Catholics commit the serious sin of voting in favor of a measure which approves of serious sin, then I believe they will be held accountable for that action by Jesus Christ when they die. I, and I'm sure Bishop Malone, also, would not want to be in that indefensible position when it comes to determining the eternal destinations of my soul.
I realize, from reading many blogs, that many pro-gay people do not have much concern about where their souls will spend eternity. That does not lessen the importance of the situation to those of us who are concerned.
Before people demonize Catholics for opposing gay marriage, please first walk a mile in our shoes.
Mike Martin, Farmington
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The Catholic Church is a tax
The Catholic Church is a tax exempt organization -- it should not use its power and influence to try to sway legislation one way or the other. They're fast on the road to losing their tax exempt status & being defined as a lobbying group.
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Where was your condemnation of the Universalist church that held a rally in favor of gay marriage?
"Reasoning with a liberal is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end. " Pirate
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It's the Catholics they hate, Gil...bash, bash, bash. I'm surprised they haven't thrown Bush into the mix. Surely, he must have had something to do with the vote turnout.
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I don't "hate" Catholics at all. The only reason I singled them out was because they were the loudest voice in opposition of same-sex marriage. Not only that.. but this letter was all about Catholics, so what's the problem??
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My church, The Church of the Woeful Countenance, wants to know why queen bee or anyone else gives a sh...damn what the Catholic church thinks or does. Oh wait. I get it. There are no tax exempt organizations that use their power and influence to further the liberal agenda, right? You lost lady. Get over it and try again. As a Christian, yes the Church of the Woeful Countenance is a Christian church, I didn't need the Catholic Church to runs ads to sway my opinion. All I needed was a legislature to ignore the the previous vote of the people. That was a bigger slap in the face than any position taken on the issue by the Catholic Church. For the record, I don't care about gay marriage. They can call themselves anything they want; married, civilly joined, whatever. And the state should get out of the marriage business altogether.
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond."All I needed was a
"All I needed was a legislature to ignore the the previous vote of the people." Mainers have NEVER, EVER voted on gay marriage. And in fact, the last time we discussed Gay Rights the people UPHELD anti-discrimination laws. Your church apparently doesn't value having an educated opinion.
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[Insert juvenile political statement here]
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While it's true that Maine has never before had a ballot question dealing with the question of gay marriage, Maine voters have twice before, (1998 and 2000), rejected measures that would have protected gays from discrimination in housing, credit, employment, education and public accomodation. A state law passed after those votes gave them those rights survived a repeal effort in 2005. I don't think that Maine voters were necessarily against gays having those protections. And neither am I. I do think they were concerned that if those referendums passed, the next step would be a push for legally recognized gay marriage. They were right and the support for that just isn't here yet.
But that didn't stop the weasels in Augusta from passing gay marriage last May. I said before, that I don't care if gays call themselves married or not. I don't think the state needs to be in the business of defining marriage beyond the union of 2 competent, unrelated PEOPLE who have reached the legal definition of adulthood. But what Baldacci and the Maine Legislature did was sneaky and underhanded. And the voters called them on it. Try again.
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could NO on 1 supporters ask them the same thing? Why they give a darn? oh-i forgot... its only 'my way or the highway' thought process be it religion or repubs.
seriously i am not a liberal. i do not associate with any political party... free will all the way.
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Difficult to get a liberal to admit they are one.
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Amen, Big.
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Looks like its OK to vote in favor of gay marriage if you have your reasons, but if you vote against it, your reasons don't count. Those of you who trash the Catholic Church need to understand that you are trashing Jesus Christ himself, who founded the Catholic Church to safeguard his teachings until he comes again. All of you former Catholics who bash the gift that once was yours need to take the time to read what the Catholic Church is all about. Maybe then you would understand it better, and realize that it is the path to your salvation.
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stangi, I may be mistaken, but I believe that it was Simon Peter who founded the Catholic Church on the direction of Jesus Christ.
“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.” Winston Churchill
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Right on Queen,Publikwerks, and J A lbrecth, if theChurch keeps lobbying their tax exempt status should be reviewed!
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Yeah...HOOOYAHHH. Let's get 'em.
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i just wanted to know why its a PART of the debate... people vote the way they want...
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where is GOD in all this? i never understood the whole JC thing. no offense. but i would think that people would be more about the maker and creator of this earth if thats what they believe.
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The Creator chose not to walk this earth. He sent his only son, Jesus Christ instead. You might wish to read up on the "JC" thing.
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So, if typical Christian Doctrine is to be discarded as the source of truth for the teachings of Christ, where are we turn as our source of inspiration? The Auburn Patriot? The Love Channel?
God may have sent Jesus "as well as many other emissaries", but only one chose to die on the cross for our salvation. No, it wasn't Gandhi, or Mohammed.
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Stangi, I'm sorry that you have given up thinking for yourself, but the Church has committed some rather large sins. I'm not saying I'm free from sin, but I also don't hold myself above judgment. Even granting that the past is over, the Catholic Church puts it's own well being over it's followers, acting even criminally. Working to cover up molestation cases is illegal, and the church has gotten away with it.
Jesus I'm sure is ashamed of what the church has done in his name
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.True PW -- no one has ever
True PW -- no one has ever been killed in the name of atheism.
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.stangi - Christ didn't
stangi - Christ didn't 'found' the Catholic Church.
The First Council of Nicaea called by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in 325 CE did.
So perhaps you're the one who'de better do your reading up on "what the Catholic Church is all about" as you put it.
And it hasn't been a pretty picture.
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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.
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Mike, ol' buddy, ol' pal; did you really think you could pull this letter off without bringing on your own crucifixion? Don't you ever read these blogs? This is the most anti-Catholic forum in all of Maine. They'll eat your lunch and spit it in your face. Have you chosen to martyr yourself, or are you really that blind to the hatred towards Catholics?
The parrot just told me he's glad he belongs to the church of the holy frisbee.
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond."The Catholic Church does
"The Catholic Church does not strive to win popularity contests. It has a mission, mandated by Jesus Christ, to lead people to salvation. Bishop Malone was not merely taking a personal stand on the gay marriage issue; he was doing what was required of him by God."
What BS. I suppose protecting pedophiles is required of him by God too.
Jon Albrecht Dixfield
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No one should critize individual catholics. They have every right to vote yes on 1 and to do so based on their personal religious beliefs. But Bishop Richard "Bull Conners" Malone has no right to use Church resources and facilities to organize opposition to a public vote. The church is now being investigated for violations of its tax exempt status over a number of interventions in secular political issues across the country. Politico reports that the Catholic Bishops believe they have a new lobbying strategy that will legally allow them to do this. I hope they are wrong as the Catholic leadership is wrong on so many issues.
Boycott the Catholic Church. Work to end all funding for the Catholic Church and any agency they re related to.
Jon Albrecht Dixfield
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Jon, why should the Catholic Church lose their tax-exempt status over taking a position on Gay Marriage. Tax-exempt organizations can take a position on issues but not support a candidate. I don't recall anyone calling to have tax-exemption revoked for the Westboro Baptist Church. But then again, they were protesting against a Republican President. Maybe Trinity Unity should lose their tax-exempt status.
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First off I will clearly and unequivically state I am not a Christian which of course also elliminates the possibility of my being Catholic. I feel it only fair that I make this clear so there is no question religious bias is a factor. I believe the Catholic Church has forfeited its right to tax exempt status because its primary mission is no longer religious eduction, providing for and ministering to the poor but lobbying. The Catholic Church closes churches and charitable operations and diverts resources that should be going to what would be legitimate tax exempt functions to political action committees of its own, it is in partnership with and direct lobbying. This activity is not limited to one cause and none of the causes are related to what would be legitimit tax exempt missions of religious education and providing for and caring for the poor.
I know of no other denomination that is systematically closing the doors of churches, food pantries, schools, missions and so forth while pumping millions into political causes and campaigns. Therein lies the justification for terminating the Catholic Church/PACT tax exempt status.
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You see Mr. Martin, it's actually quite easy to demonize catholics. Like shooting fish in a barrel. In fact, I'd be MOST afraid to meet my maker if I WAS a catholic, for that religion has surely done the most to subvert, and pervert what was Jesus' original intent. And all in the name of PERSONAL power and glory and greed.
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"those of us who are concerned" Save your concern, many don't want it.
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Franklin D. Roosevelt
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I remember this Jewish hippy once said "Judge not, lest ye be judged".
Sorry Catholics, you passed judgment on homosexuals, and now it's your turn to answer for your sins.
It's your turn to answer for your short comings.
It's your turn to be judged.
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I was brought up a Catholic and am now ashamed of the church !! They wonder why numbers are dropping they do nothing about Preists that are phedofiles yet expect us to vote in their favor on everything else GET YOUR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER !!!! Ohhh and what happened to seperation of church and state ???????? Its not only the catholics its all religions !!
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are you aware that there was one constitution that specifically separated church and state? It was in the constitution of the U.S.S.R
bol'shoye spasibo
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I'm sorry, but your god has no mandate over the Constitution. If you, as a church, feel the need to attempt to sway legislation again I should hope we all move to have your tax exempt status taken away.
It is the undauntable thought, my friend. The one that says, "I'm right!" ~Bobby Sands
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Catholics okay this is to funny to keep to myself from what I know about the hypocritical church they cross themselves while people buy condoms in public, then purchase an eighteen pack of beer, and keep a little thirty-five percent alcohol based vanilla extract. If the Catholics are not wrapped into hypocritical ground games are simply looking at themselves and playing the moral high ground. Deimos wants to link everything to communism on the rise tell me how is NCLB working out as a Soviet adopted program from the pro-Stalin era?
Joseph Ziehm
Lewiston, ME
"Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a master in heaven. Continue in prayer, and watch in the same with thanksgiving;" Colossians 4: 1-2
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.And yet again another
And yet again another Catholic voice claiming victimization. The Catholic Church is one of the richest and most powerful institutions in the world. I'd love to "walk a mile in its shoes."
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Keep your filthy catholic hands off of my soul, thank you very much.
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Amen.
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond."We are a world of diverse
"We are a world of diverse people from all walks of life. 'Pro-gay' people, Gays, Lesbians, Transgendered, Bisexual people are not going anywhere. "
you forgot the "questioning" people. I hereby officially denounce you. get your shovel, report to the local commissar for two weeks re-education in the beet fields.
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Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted.
-- Vladimir Ilyich Lenin
Destroy the family, you destroy the country.
-- Vladimir Ilyich Lenin
There was a time in recent American history when certain Soviet jokes didn't work in translation - not so much because of the language differences, but because of the lack of common sociopolitical context. But that is changing. As President Obama is preparing us for a great leap towards collectivism, I find myself recollecting forgotten political jokes I shared with comrades while living in the old country under Brezhnev, Andropov, and Gorbachev. (I was too young to remember the Khrushchev times, but I remember the Khrushchev jokes.) I also noticed that the further America "advances" back to the Soviet model, the more translatable the old Soviet jokes become.
Not all Soviet advancements have metastasized here yet, but we have four more glorious years to make it happen.
Dialectical contradictions are one of the pillars in Marxist philosophy, which states that contradictions eventually lead to a unity of opposites as the result of a struggle. This gave a convenient "scientific" excuse for the existence of contradictions in a socialist society, where opposites were nice and agreeable - unlike the wild and crazy opposites of capitalism that could never be reconciled. Hence the joke
One of my favorite political jokes is this:
Love and marriage:
Sex differences are the result of social conditioning - yet homosexuality is biological.
Homosexuality is biological - yet everybody is encouraged to experiment with it.
Everybody is encouraged to experiment with it - yet venereal diseases are treated at the taxpayers' expense.
Venereal diseases are treated at the taxpayers' expense - yet taxpayers have no right to impose standards since there are no moral absolutes.
There are no moral absolutes - yet gay marriage is an absolute must.
Gay marriage is an absolute must - yet family is an antiquated tool of bourgeois oppression.
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this is about question 1, however people become more perverse in their statements. the 'love and marriage' is a prime example of ignorance and think they 'know-it-all'. i wonder if anyone has the factual statistics/percentage of out of all the people with venereal diseases... (not to mention unplanned pregnancies or this and that!)how many are straight. G/L/T/B have long-lasting, lifetime, loving relationships just like any straight couple. like i said-if people were more confident in their teachings and who they are as parents, christians/catholics, teachers-what have you-then their shouldn't be an issue about this. no one is encouraged to experiment with homosexuality. don't worry-if you're in the same room with a G/L/T/B you're not going to become one.
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Deimos, what a good post. Normally, if a post is more than a paragraph or two long, I'll skim it quickly and be done with it. Posts that long are usually the incoherent ramblings of someone like tron or queenhoneybee. But this was thought provoking and somewhat humorous. Thank you.
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AARRGHH!! You got that right, Big.
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Yeah, and Deimos' post not only applies to the issue of same-sex marriage but also to many other issues in society today. Humerous in one way and sad in another.
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You know Obama is going to use aborted babies to clone Stalin(at taxpayer's expense)?
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Many people voted on question 1 for many different reasons. The most important thing in my opinion is that the people voted, not that state government dictated what the law would be. I was prepared to accept the vote whichever way it turned out. I wonder how many on the losing side will, or will the process start all over again.
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It will start again, just as it would have if it went the other way. Especially since it was such a close vote
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond."I realize, from reading
"I realize, from reading many blogs, that many pro-gay people do not have much concern about where their souls will spend eternity. That does not lessen the importance of the situation to those of us who are concerned."
No this is a fine example of someone who maybe didn't fully understand Question 1. Question 1 isn't asking if you are for gays or not ("pro-gay people as Mike stated)... Question 1 was about passing the law for G/L/T/B to marry. I am honestly bothered by all the religious rhetoric when in all actuality NOT all people in Maine are Catholic/Christians... and there are G/L/T/B who are devoted and religious. How can one impose their own personal, religious beliefs or even have the audacity to use their religion as part of the debate. Just like Mike wouldn't like to hear the how/what/where-SOME people would LIKE TO hear a legitimate, factual, statistical debate.
In all honesty-I do not see how in Mike's and other's eyes how a G/L/T/B person 'will be held accountable for that action by Jesus Christ when they die' or G/L/T/B 'do not have much concern about where their souls will spend eternity' has such an impact and so bothersome to Mike and other yes on 1 supporters that they suppress the lives of other people. I can see imposing your own views on your own family and your own children. If people were more confident in their teachings and who they are this shouldn't be an issue.
We are a world of diverse people from all walks of life. 'Pro-gay' people, Gays, Lesbians, Transgendered, Bisexual people are not going anywhere. One thing I learned in life is that we are the same-same thoughts, same feelings-we will all experience the same kind of emotions or situations in life-whether it be enduring a loss of a loved one, to financial concerns, happiness, sadness... So Mike I say to you, since you've been demonized (and might I add that you've done a fine job demonizing the G/L/T/B community)- along with G/L/T/B or your neighbors at one point or another in our lives-you MUST know what it is like to 'walk a mile in (another's) shoes'.
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