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after the fire there are the
after the fire there are the NORMAL HORDES climbing over each other to SPEND OUR MONEY NOT THIERS on something THEY FEEL WE NEED even though WE DONT KNOW THAT YET it is what we need ACCORDING TO THEM CAN YOU SPELL JACKA55 THE WHOLE BUNCH OF THEM. The best thing to do is remove the rubble BY CITY EMPLOYEES to the CITY LANDFILL or sell it to contractor for chushing OH SHUKS NO PAYOLA HUH tooo Bad that is what is wrong with the state so many hands to grease and the taxpayer is left with the shaft without any grease at all.
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Mr. Labonte, sounds like an interesting idea, but some councilors are busy planning other metings....here's one today that seems to have come from a sitting councilor "I have set up a meeting for Wednesday August 5 at the Ramada at 5:30
pm at which time I expect a large number of people to attend that are
not pleased with this city council and want to right the ship come this
November. Please attend and bring with you as many supporters as
possible. It is time we be heard. Thanks Tom Peters"
While I cannot absolutely confirm it to be the truth and from the author indicated, Mr. peters has done nothing today to indicate it is not from his pen. Sad but true, some folks are sore losers.
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Dreaming of tree-lined streets, the extinction of litter, smooth pavement, criminals in jail, people thinking that they have some pride-of-place, traffic jams from 7 to 8 and 4 to 5 as people go to and from work, parking garages filled to capacity, graffiti a memory like 33 rpm records are, corner stores thriving...oooh la la!
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I encourage the City Council to host a workshop discussion about the recreation and trail planning already occurring in the region.
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That really sucks about the restaruant it was a very cool and unique idea and probably would have drawn people in just to see what it was like/about, but can't make every idea a reality.
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Lewiston, while I cannot breach the sanctity of executive session, I can say that there has been interest in the property in the most recent 18 months, but in a down economy I thin it takes longer to line up financing and get approval for things like historic preservation credit, both of which would be what brings a power player to the table. The lord giveth and the lord taketh away as someone once said - perhaps now someone new with a different vision will want to develop the property into a HIlton garden Inn or similar residence - the view of the falls could be enticing for hotel guests, and consider a "top fo the Falls" dining room on the top floor - what a view. As to the garage, bottom of the empty lot thats part of MIll 5 area - across from Yvons car wash, but a bit further down Lincon, just before the canal crossway. Thats all public info. The concept of restaurants on top has been discontinued due to the extra cost to build a facility that would allow for the additional weight load of restaurant and its needs such as heavy duty coolers and freezers, large ovenes, etc. (Hard to understand at first, but weight wise, its more than car parking would require for load bearing,thus more expensive). We are looking at potential retail storefront on the Lincoln street side - something that would stimulate that areas - perhaps even a return by Patrick's Burrito's if they chose which I understand had quite a following just down the street before the city condemned the building. As i said, you make the infrastructure improvements to attract the hotels and restaurants/shops and then you use those revenues to make the area attractive as a recreational area, which then breathes more life into the area. Its a cycle that when developed correctly could be a model as we reach out throughout the city and make ours a better place to live, work and have fun!
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That's a pretty big vision there Robert. Not that there is anything that is wrong with any of that, but I feel people would rather have Lewiston try to create more jobs then to create a picturesque walk/hike along the river. I am not trying to downgrade your idea I think it is an awesome idea (yes I am agreeing with you for once), but as I said more people are looking for jobs right now then a walk.
Secondly, the videos are a GREAT idea. Sun Journal is not trying to be a news station like someone previously stated. All Tony is doing is giving us a glimpse of what is in store for the next days newspaper. Everyone should enjoy them because it let's you know if it's worth buying the paper or coming on here to read it.
To go along with "outside" ideas. I love that people (more importantly Tony and John) who once lived in Lewiston still are passionate enough to give ideas of how to make it better. If I am not mistaken it was "outside" ideas from a group of entrepreneurs (i.e. Benjamin Bates) that created Lewiston into what it is today. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
Lastly, I very much have always been in love with the Bates mill, but with the recent fire at Cowen mill, it scared the hell out of me when I heard the roof caught on fire (mill #5 that is). For once I too am on the side that it is best that it should be taken down, but I hope that whomever decides to build something on that site pays homage to Mill #5 somehow in their design. I kinda liked your idea Robert about the sawed off roof and have them as solar panels neat idea. I love the fact that the hotel and potential retailis going on at Island Point. My question though is was the Cowen mill in the intial planning of the hotel and retail or is it just now an empty lot that we could put commercial businesses there? Also, Robert I know there are planning on putting a parking garage somewhere near Mill #5. Where exactly is it going to be and I read somewhere that there were thoughts of putting a restaruant on the top over looking the river/falls is that still in consideration? I think a restaruant on top would be a very cool idea and very unique idea atleast for Maine. Also, would be cool if there were a small souvenir shop selling shirts and what not of Lewiston/Auburn with a pic of the falls.
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Jay Bee, I concur with most of what you say, my point was more - let Lewiston decide what is best for Lewiston and if that includes our sister city, then we reach across the river and ask for their input. Ipersonally would like to see a more recreational feature along the riverfront - imagine trails for biking and walking that spider out throughout the city, but also follow the riverfront. Imagine a building where people could rent space to store kayaks and canoes so they can easily access a boat launch on the same spot and enjoy the river. You can go so far as letting people sign out the bike style trailer so a person could kayak down the river and use the trailer to walk the boat back to the storage facility if neccesary. Then you invite retailers and others who would have synergies with the recreational use. Then link it all in with the potential new state park in Greene/Turner. Thats my vision for the area betwen Longley bridge (main st.) and Lown Bridge (New Auburn) Develop Cowan site into a hotel and dining mecca, and have the city fund the infrastructure improvements neccesary to attract the businesses. Bottom line is if you get more younger, active people in that downtown on a regular basis and lo longer afraid to be in that part of the city (comments some still make) we can start the process of redifining the view of our city. And the best part is if Auburn wants in there are several bridges which link us and we could connect the riverfront for both communities, instead of each doing its own thing.
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Robert - I am fine with you making comments about Auburn. As I said, they are intertwined cities. I don't see them as two entirely distinct places, despite what the current crop of City Councilors appears to think. Discussion and debate are the hallmark of a democracy, and more is almost always better, provided it is done in a cogent manner.
And yes, I would agree that having people such as mayors or councilors would make for interesting discussion. It would either show everyone their knowledge and insight, or their idiocy and provincialism. (Sadly, I have to suspect the latter, given their tendency toward embarrassing public squabbles and outbursts.)
Jonathan is knowledgeable because he has paid attention to details. From his work with the MTA to his current trifecta of local involvement, his awareness is deep and broad. While from the area, he doesn't appear to be so enmeshed with the status quo that he is unable to vision. These qualities in proper combination are a rare commodity in these parts; given the current lack of leadership on either side of the river, I can only hope and pray that it is the start of a trend, and not an isolated occurrence.
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Now for actual comments..
For a long time i've been a proponant of knocking down the Mill 5 building. I attended many workshops and meetings in years past on the Mill, have read the whole Mill no. 5 report (all 400+ pages), the Bates Mill Master Plan, the 09' City Of Lewiston Strategic Plan, L/A Excels and on and on and on..
When the Cowan fire happened, i think i changed my stance. Now I agree that the "Island Point" site should be developed first and maybe Mill 5 should sit for a while. I do feel the Mill 5 site is extremely valuable cleared completely.. but we already know that it won't be cleared.. Even if Mill 5 comes down. The council has already approved (a huge mistake in my opinion) a parking garage off Lincoln on that lower part of the site. WHY IS A GARAGE GOING THERE? Perhaps with the recent developments (Cowan Fire) this garage location should be re-thought.
Mr. Reed, yes i agree if the Mill caught fire it would be a disaster, but wouldn't that be true of nearly any building in that area? We just have to trust that the idiots that set the first one are caught and that doesn't happen again.
As for the failing concrete.. yes there is some spalling, and a few spots need work, but overall the building is in remarkable condition for its age.. i'm not sure what report you read.
Finally, whether the Mill stays or goes, the most important point is that real URBAN PLANNING and visioning takes place, not piece-meal turn a quick buck development.
These sites can make or break the future of L/A.. hopefully with prudent planning it won't be the latter.
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Publikwerks said " The
Publikwerks said " The videotorials seem kinda silly"
Seriously? Another medium through which to generate conversation and get people thinking. Thats silly? I think anything that will get all of us discussing the future of OUR "Twin Cities" (yes i consider them one place) is alright in my book. I commend everyone for taking the time to post thier opinions on here, whether i agree with them or not. However, "Publikwerks" i do agree with Mr. Labonte that you shouldn't hide behind some ridiculous screen name... Publikwerks? What is that.. a poor attempt at a play on words? Your grafitti callsign? Public works is how it's correctly spelled... This is a forum to discuss opinions to better our community, not a building on which to spray paint your negativity.
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Bob, I agree, the best we can hope for at this time is to clean the cites, make them presentable and do the necceary infrastructure to attract people who might wish to develop it in some way. There are very neccesary water, sewer and road work needed in the area and the time to do that is now when businesses are looking for work and the prices are reasonable. As to what goes there - I think a clean site will attract many different interests and the city can decide what is best for us.
As to Mill 5 - it needs to come down from a structural integrity point of view. The concrete is failing, it cannot handle the load stresses and at best we can hope that a new tenant might consider building a facility that mirrors what the mill looked like, for example modelling the sawtoothed roof to incorporate solar panels.
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I don't live in Lewiston any longer but work in downtown Lewiston every business day. I lived in Lewiston, was schooled in Lewiston and have worked in Lewiston for most of my life.
In the 1990's, I was a part of a group of Lewiston and Auburn residents that led the effort to re-develop the Bates Mill Complex. There are now in excess of 1,000 people gainfully employed in that Complex. At the time we started the effort, the roofs were literally caving in.
Fast forward a decade and more, and we find that Mill 5 is older and never farther away from adaptive re-use.
Jonathan Labonte and Tony Ronzio should be commended for considering the options available to downtown Lewiston. We may not agree, but there needs to be a whole lot of thinking going into the future of downtown. It it needs to be truly transformative thinking.
I wish Don Harward hadn't retired and moved away. LA Excels was on the right track as an L-A think tank, at the very least.
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Robert61,
I don't live in Lewiston now, although I did. I moved away because it was the right decision for growing my family. I'm not from Maine originally, but I do have family in Lisbon and Auburn. I work in downtown Lewiston each and every day.
Anthony Ronzio
Editorial Page Editor
Sun Journal
tronzio@sunjournal.com
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Jay Bee, scrath that last idea, I think people would be more skeptical of our ideas given some of them think we are buying up the prorperties ourselves to unload later based on inside information. In fact, that very subject might make a great column for a local newspaper. I guess I need to start writing.
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Jay Bee, here's another
Jay Bee, here's another thought - would it have been more appropriate to have this discussion with maybe a Lewiston councilor or two? Maybe our Mayor or administrator? Why Jonathan - what makes him so knowledgable compared to others who actually live in our city?
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Jay Bee, so based on your rationale, you'll never poke at me when I tell Auburn how to conduct it's affairs? Or are you saying that New Auburn is more like Lewiston and therefore should be part of Lewiston instead of Auburn? Ultimately the LEWISTON taxpayers will decide what the fate is..and as to the past opportunities to develop, I cannot comment other than to say what was brought before us as a council was unacceptable to me as a taxpayer - and as it did not pass, I seem reasonably assured that others felt the same way.
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Robert - Jonathan was raised and still lives in New Auburn; that should be close enough to having a reasonable ability to discuss what goes on in Lewiston. The two cities' fates always have been and always will be, intertwined. Calling Jonathan an outsider is disingenuous at best.
I happen to agree with Jonathan's take about the need to move on Island Point. This location has been allowed to languish for too long, and the City's inability to make this project work lead to the long period of abandonment for the Cowan Mill, and, arguably, its demise.
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You're kidding me right? Tony - do you live in Lewiston? Mr. Labonte does not, but he seems convinced he can shape lewiston policy from his pulpit. Mill 5 must come down, we must prepare the areas for development and be ready when the economy turns around to fofer a valuable piece of real estate to the best opportunity for Lewiston.
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1. I would like to congratulate Tony and the Sun-Journal for the viditorial concept. While I might not agree with the Sun-Journal's positions to a large extent, I think the concept is well thought out and informative.
2. The Ronzio-Labonte discussion was the finest local news piece I've viewed in a long time. Very thought provoking.
3. I think that Mill 5 has to come down. The sooner the better. It is a fire hazard. I witnessed it igniting during the Cowan Mill fire and it was very clear to me that the entire Bates Mill Complex and a large section of Lisbon Street was in dire straights for a few minutes. If not for the work of our local fire departments, we would have lost a large section of downtown Lewiston that afternoon.
Many of the people bemoaning the loss of Mill 5 were not around or are oblivious to the New Auburn fire on 1933. In one afternoon, most of New Auburn was wiped out. It can, and does happen. Mills 1, 2, 3 and 6 would have been nothing but kindling in the face of even a roof fire on Mill 5.
I worked in those mills and they are fire traps. Yes, there is a much cement in the support structure, but there are flammables in there as well. Hot embers would shower down on other roofs and the fire might stop after it burned through Pepperell Mill complex.
We cannot take the chance.
4. At this point, I think the best course of action is to clean out both Island Point and the Bates Mill sites. Period. Get the sites cleared, take a deep breath, and see what the city scape looks like. Plan from there.
5. I would caution as to relying to a great extent on the taxpayers of the city on developing the sites. Unless the final use of the sites is for a purely public use (parking, parks, city facilities), the private sector and private capital is the safest bet for meaningful development.
6. A reminder: We are in a deep recession. There is a good chance that it will be a long time before the level of economic activity even begins to recover. Lewiston should think long and hard before jumping to grab at "something" to say "we are doing something"
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