Motorcycle debate getting loud

The revised law is a week old and clearly stated. In essence, motorcycles and other vehicles must be equipped with mufflers. And those mufflers cannot be modified in a way that makes them louder.

Simple. And yet the debate over the law has become louder than the noise it was designed to prevent.

On one side of the issue are bikers. They say the law unfairly targets a lifestyle. They say being louder makes people notice them.

On Facebook, roughly 5,000 people had joined the group “Loud Pipes Save Lives” since it was created two weeks ago.

“Motorists are becoming more distracted while driving with cell phones, iPods, coffee, loud music and the rush of daily life,” it states in the group description. “Motorcycles are everywhere but hard to see. MAKE YOURSELF HEARD!”

One of the group administrators, Heaven Love, of Auburn said the idea that being loud could save a life of a motorcycle rider is not the sole focus of the group.

“My biggest thing is all the stereotypes. Anything you hear about bikers is negative, negative, negative,” Love says. “But I do believe that loud pipes save lives? Yes. I’ve seen many riders get cut off by other drivers. You hear of people who avoid hitting a deer in the roadway only because the sound of the bike scared the deer off.”

And though the revised law pertains to four-wheeled vehicles as well, it is commonly felt that it takes aims at motorcycles specifically.

“I live on a busy road,” Love said. “There are motorcycles that go by and make noise. But there are tons of other things that go by and make noise, too.”

And so Love is one of those who studies the law carefully. She stays in touch with police, lawmakers and motorcycle riders. She plans to take her arguments to Augusta when the time comes.

On the other side is a group called “Mainers Against Loud Motorcycles,” a grassroots coalition trying desperately to bring about peace and quiet. The group has been around awhile. By Friday, it’s Facebook group had a more modest 150 members. Yet, since the new law went into effect, it’s been the smaller group seeing more of the action.

Bikers with admittedly loud pipes were going in to exchange words with proponents of the law. Those exchanges are frequently heated but most participants on either side of the issue had done their homework. There is logic to be found behind just about every argument.

For Andy Ford, founder of “Mainers Against Loud Motorcycles,” all of it may be much ado about nothing at all. Laws to prevent loud exhaust systems have been around a while. Historically, they have been ineffective.

“This new law, most of it has been on the books for 16 years. There are some small revisions,” Ford said. “I don’t think the law is enforceable as soon as a biker decides to challenge it.”

And challenges are almost certain. Those found in violation face a fine of $137. It’s an amount small enough for some to keep their pipes and take their chances with the law.

“We’re telling everybody that gets ticketed to go to court and fight it,” Love said. “Because people still aren’t clear about what the revised laws mean. Everybody needs to be on the same page with it.”

By the numbers

History has been kind to bikers with loud pipes. In Lewiston, where complaints of loud motorcycles have vexed the police department for years, the numbers don’t indicate aggressive enforcement.

Between the start of 2006 and the first of summer 2010, a total of 121 motorists were ticketed or warned about loud exhaust systems. Of those, only 12 were motorcycles. Four were cited in 2006, another eight in 2007.

No motorcyclists were cited in 2008, 2009 or so far in 2010. During those same years, 26, 25 and 12 people were ticketed for driving cars or trucks with exhaust systems that made too much noise.

The conclusion some make: The new law, even if all motorcycle riders are forced to display inspection stickers on their bikes (as proposed for 2012) will not result in greater enforcement.

“All attempts that I’ve seen, using inspection stickers or muffler laws, none of them work,” Ford said. “It’s pretty dismal.”

In 2012, all motorcyclists may be required to display inspection stickers. The latest figures from the state indicate that the percentage of Maine's approximately 50,000 registered motorcycles, 42 percent are not inspected. Even if a rider plans to get and display an inspection sticker, there are ways to get it done without sacrificing their straight pipes or short pipes. Ford said he knows of some bikers who will carefully replace a loud exhaust with a different one until the sticker is obtained. Once the bike is legal, the quiet muffler comes off and the loud one goes back on. It’s common, he says.

Police presumably know of those tricks. If they don’t, they will likely learn. State Police have convened a group to study the situation. Other departments are following suit. They have no choice, really. Training is mandatory.

“Not every officer has a great working knowledge of motorcycles,” said Auburn police Chief Phil Crowell. “We want to make sure they get the training they need.”

Crowell is already working with Ford and his group. The chief also plans to coordinate with Lewiston police and get a joint enforcement effort underway.

“We need to start an education campaign and then we’re certainly going to be stepping up enforcement,” Crowell said.

One problem with enforcement has been murkiness within the law itself. How many decibels are allowed? Which pipes are illegal and which are not?

The revisions were meant to simplify things. Crowell said in most cases, those who are violating the law are doing so in dramatic style. It will be easy for the officers to tell which bikers need to be stopped.

“When it’s rattling the windows of your car, you know that’s a loud bike,” Crowell said.

 Can't we all just get along?

Most bikers are aware of the flap over the revised laws. Businesses that sell or fix motorcycles are also in the loop. Police hope that much of the compliance will be voluntary.

“Education and voluntary compliance can go a long with this,” said Lewiston police Deputy Chief James Minkowsky. “I know the bike shops are talking about the issue. A little common sense will go a long way.”

Voluntary compliance? Most supporters of the new law scoff at the notion. They have tried to reason with people of the motorcycle world in the past, they say, with no luck at all.

“These people, for the most part, are not bad people,” Ford said. “But they have this fantasy. This is the image they want. They are totally immune to our positive suggestions.”

According to MECALM, studies have shown that any source of excessive noise in a community — loud car stereos, barking dogs, machinery included — is more than just a quality of life issue.

“Noise is a pollutant,” Ford said. “It has an effect on cardio system, the nervous system. ... And they are very ill effects.”

To which those who oppose the new law will repeat that they need their bikes loud so that other drivers will notice them.

“If noise isn’t a factor,” says Love, “why do emergency vehicles have sirens?”

And the debate comes full circle again.

Unfortunately, no study has proven that loud pipes aid in the safety of a motorcycle rider. In fact, the Hurt Study of 1981 indicates that the idea that loud pipes save lives may be patently untrue.

“It’s not going to make you safer,” Crowell said.

Many motorcycle groups denounce the loud pipes philosophy, too, including the American Motorcycle Association.

“The AMA believes that few other factors contribute more to misunderstanding and prejudice against the motorcycling community than excessively loud motorcycles,” the group asserts in their official statement on the matter. “All motorcycles are manufactured to meet federally mandated sound control standards. Unfortunately, a small number of riders who install unmuffled aftermarket exhaust systems perpetuate a public myth that all motorcycles are loud.”

Some bikers agree with that. The number of troublemakers is small, they say. So why shouldn’t police just concentrate on those few rather than lumping all motorcyclists together?

“We all believe it should be a case-by-case thing,” said Josh Stone, a rider from Auburn. “Yes, some pipes, like straight pipes are louder and can be obnoxious when the rider is being obnoxious, but why make everyone pay for them?”

Like Love, Stone takes issue with the tone taken by the people of MECALM. There, anybody who rides a motorcycle is characterized as a thug or an outlaw.

“The thing that people have a problem with as far as the MECALM,” Stone says, “is some of the members seem to be just plain anti-motorcycle.”

Which is a philosophy police say they will not adopt. It is commonly known, after all, that a significant number of police officers ride motorcycles themselves.

“We are not saying motorcycles are bad,” Crowell said. “It’s really is all about noise pollution.”

“It is a balancing act,” said Minkowsky, the Lewiston deputy police chief. “Not being over aggressive with decent people riding, and not ignoring the wishes of decent people trying not have their ear drums blown out because someone is trying to 'save their life.’”

It’s an idea Heaven Love can get behind. She thinks that riders need to be reminded to keep noise down when a situation demands it. It should be more about courtesy than anything else.

“There need to be more voices out there, reminding everyone to ride respectfully,” she said. “Just be respectful of the people around you.”

Ford believes the problem will be solved someday through that kind of philosophy more than tweaks to the law. People will evolve into a different way of thinking, he says, just like they did in the matter of second hand smoke. There was a time when a person could smoke anywhere without raising eyebrows. Today? You can’t smoke in most bars, let alone hospitals or restaurants.

“That’s where riding loud is headed,” Ford said. “It will be like lighting up a cigarette in a hospital. It will become unacceptable, and we’ll be a better society for it.”

New motorcycle noise law
Russ Dillingham/Sun Journal

Jason Baker of Harrison, left, pulls out of a gas station on Route 26 in Oxford Saturday afternoon while on a ride with his friend, Joe Chamberlain of Naples. While his bike has legal pipes on it, he believes it does not matter what kind of pipes a bike has, "it all pertains to how you ride and how responsible the rider is. The way you ride determines how loud the motorcycle is. You can take a stock bike straight out of the showroom and ride it quietly or rev it up and make a lot of noise, it's how you ride. I believe it is a safety issue. If a driver hears you coming, they are less likley to pull out in front of you."

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Displaying comments, from newest to oldest

Bill of Augusta's picture

Stacy L; Obviously, your 4.0

Stacy L; Obviously, your 4.0 GPA wasn't in spelling.

Heaven Love's picture

There is so much more than just the sound

There is so much more to riding and being safe than just the sound of a bike. Many people can sit there and I have heard it many times ( Many on the MECALM site) in regards to the people who ride motorcycles are bad horrible people and that they are bums punks just to put it nicely. I have to say that many of the people that enjoy riding is very respectable people that well they spend 20 - 30k on something they enjoy doing. Last I knew that doesn't make someone anything as stated. Are there bad riders out there yes as I told Mark and them at MECALM that there is bad in everything whether you are white, black, green, an officer or a government official. Doesn't mean that they are all bad people. Like I had said I thought racism was over. To let you know. I do not own a bike nor have I ever or am legal to drive one. The reason for this fight is 1. It is wrong for all the negativity that they say about people who ride. Do you know all the good that many riders do around the world for your communities? Are there bad riders out there yes but why keep pushing laws against everyone! 2. There is so much more about this law that needs to be clarified. I have a durango that this law has well impacted. If I go to get a sticker (which I have tested) Some I fail and some I pass, per the new law. Really well that just proves not everyone is on the same page on what passes through our legislation.

We all have to live in Maine and I understand that some people can be loud as well and well living by a busy road as I do I understand that very well. When I stated to him about emergency vehicles that was in regards to people hearing the sirens and looking to see where they are coming from. Have you ever been riding down the road and heard a bike and looked for it. Then thought to yourself at any time that you were glad that you heard them because you didn't see them. Well I am gonna be honest I have. I have as well seen many people take motorcyclist down while driving until the rider was made sure that they heard her/him there. Example: The other day I was crossing memorial bridge there was 5 bikes all riding in the left lane, myself and a SUV in front of me in the right lane. When we got over to the Auburn side the driver of the SUV decided he needed to be in the left lane to go towards Walmart. The driver of the SUV almost ran right into the 3rd bike until him and the other guy let onto the throttle. I could hear the bikes get louder the driver of the SUV came back into the right lane. I will say that the SUV had his windows up and probably the A/C on due to it being as hot as it was but the bikes where still heard.

All that I ask is that you all understand where the riders are coming from. As far as windows shaking etc. I live on such a busy road and as close as you can get to the road with many bikes going by and I have never had my windows or home shake. Yes I hear them over the tv, my boys do as well but it lasts all of 20-30 sec MAX! How long do I hear that mower next door running, or the sirens blaring up the road or the barking dogs next door. A lot longer than that! It's life and noise has always been part of it. If you feel that there is someone being disrespectful, get there plate or keep note of them and let someone know. Why ruin for all!

Do you know that they are planning on making hybrids louder. Do you know why because they have found that they are at risk for being so small and not being heard! Why would that be? A motorcycle is as small if not smaller than they are!

I look forward to meeting many more people at our site Citizens Against Maines Revised Law to get our voices heard as well there is a discussion board in regards to people and their stories of how the sound has saved them. Yes I agree that maybe there are no known studies done on this but how many studies are done on near miss accidents. The only proof that anyone has or could go by is the real life stories!

conserva-mom's picture

Sick

I'm so sick of hearing it. Loud pipes save lives. If it's so GD dangerous, don't freaking ride it!!! Don't ride on the yellow line, weave in and out of traffic, accelerate at ridiculous speeds, and scare the crap out of me with your loud phallic displays when I'm trying to concentrate on the road!

northwoods's picture

my two cents

First off let me say that this law won't effect me one bit. I don't ride but I do love the sound of a Harley (could care less for the sound of a Honda). I am amazed of the whining done by the rough, tough, born to be wild bikers. As I read the posts I picture a 3 year old child screaming, stomping their feet. If the noise was a safety issue wouldn't the companies make the stocked pipes loud enough. Which would make the new law go away. Plus look at how it will be enforced. All of you are saying it is a minority of riders that ruin it for the rest. Do you really think a cop is going to bother with a biker that is riding quietly and with respect of other drivers because his pipes look after market. Or do you think they are going to stop the biker that is making noise just because he can.

K0NPHL1C7's picture

Firstly, if a car hears a

Firstly, if a car hears a “loud horn” – They instinctively will look for another car, and they still might not notice a small bike beside them. However, if they hear a the unmistakable roar of a Harley beside them, well they know to look for a bike.

It doesn’t matter how often this scenario happens, once is enough. If even ONE life is saved by having loud pipes (which I feel mine has been more than once) than well, it’s worth it.

Again , take the fine, and fight the charge. Do not give in. They will offer to reduce the charge down to probably like $88.00, trying to get SOMETHING from you, but don’t budge. Tell the D.A., “I am taking this to a JURY trial” – They will try to scare you, but the WORDST thing that will happen, is you will have to pay the fine. Most likely, the cop will not show up and the ticket will be thrown out. This is not a myth, it has been done many, many times.

If they want to waste our time and harass us, let’s do the same to them.

In addition, I have seen multiple boycotts of Sturgis recently because of the same issue. I think the state of Maine would see a real hit to their wallet if out-of-staters stopped coming here for bike trips, so I will be promoting a similar boycott of Maine by riders who feel this law is unfair and unjust.

biker's picture
verified

Loud riders project responsibility to others.

The fact is that loud pipes do not reduce the number of motorcycle accidents. As the Hurt report suggests, muffler noise is not a factor in accident avoidance. Loud riders are under the impression their wrist twisting racket gets the attention of drivers all the while operating their machines in many unsafe ways on the road. Riding in cars blind spots, riding in groups and side by side, and now the frenchman tells us it is defensive riding to ride ON THE YELLOW LINE!
This would be funny if it were not so sad. I suppose giving oncoming cars the angry biker stare also helps ward off the possible left hand turning car? Give me a break. Try wearing a helmet, lose the illegal APE hangers and learn how to ride safe. Stop blaming everyone else for your lack skill to operate your machine by hoping someone might hear you before seeing you. Start riding your bike and enjoying the road, not projecting your fear through your illegal exhausts. By riding invisably, you will assume the car may not see you (They may not) and have a plan to avoid a dangerous situation. By ASSuming others hear you while riding helmetless in black leather on a black low rider, you have ASSsigned the responsibility of your safety to the operator of the car. Even if they are talking on the cell, balancing the coffee cup, or changing the radio station, it is your responsibility to be at a distance so you can avoid and brake if necessary. Or you can blame the accident on everyone else.

Riding motorcycle IS dangerous. Suck it up bad biker boyz and learn how to ride! stop blaming everyone else for your lack of safety skills.

thinkingman's picture

Does anyone know if there

Does anyone know if there been any published studies on motorcycle noise and whether it can save from having accidents? Most cars have windows up year round, radio on so I always found the excuse kind of lame "I want cars to hear me"....I always found it more likely they want people to see them on their bike as an ego thing and the noise draws the attention to them.

sprung's picture
verified

Loud bikers abusive

It's obvious to most intelligent people that the motorcycle noise pollution is a result of abusive behavior. It may be true that most loud bikers are doctors, lawyers, certified public accountants, nurses and other professionals. But if such a professional is found guilty of child abuse, do we just say, let him or her off because of his or her profession, or do we insist that they be punished like anyone else?
There is no cogent argument for the abusive behavior of riding loud. Riding loud doesn't contribute to safe riding nor does it improve the image of motorcycling.
There are some excellent, very loud air horns made for motorcycles that can be purchased for $50.
And although many Harley riders claim that riding loud is necessary for safety, it's astounding in view of this silly claim that thousands of bikers are able to ride whisper quiet Honda Gold Wings safely every day.

frnchmn's picture

Sprung...try and ask 3

Sprung...try and ask 3 friends of mine who ride Honda Goldwings...you'll have to speak loudly since all 3 were involved in fatal accidents with cars turning left into their paths. you obviously do not ride because if you did you would never have written such a sanctimonious premise. I love it when someone basically says if you don't see it my way you mustn't be smart. I've met many so called self intellects and I have not be too impressed. Oh wait I ride and I don't have factory exhaust...I guess the reason I don;t understand them is that I'm not smart enough...thanks for the "slice of wisdom" there Sprung (insert Einstein).

sprung's picture
verified

Motorcycle crashes

Sadly, the type of collision that involves a car turning left in front of a motorcycle occurs frequently with loud Harleys. There no documentation that quiet motorcycles are involved in more crashes than loud motorcycles. If there were any significant difference, it would logically follow that quiet motorcyclists would pay much higher insurance premiums than loud motorcyclists do. The insurance industry would certainly be aware of this and charge accordingly. As the extensive motorcycle safety study, The Hurt Report, shows, loud pipes are a non factor in safe riding.

conserva-mom's picture

wrong

That's where you're wrong. It does affect us. Putting yourself at undue risk raises your chances of being in an accident. Police, EMT, doctors, etc. will be involved and all of our insurances will go up. The noise happens to affect us also. It's not all about YOU. Guess how many times I've peen passed illegally or cut off by a motorcycle. Yesterday some idiots were riding side by side and the guy on the left was right on the yellow line. Are these geniuses concerned with safety...nope. And guess what, they are the same type of people who have excessively loud pipes. They do it because they don't care about anyone else. Narcisism. If riding a motorcycle is so darn dangerous, stop doing it.

frnchmn's picture

There are reasons people ride

There are reasons people ride the yellow line...because there are brilliant drivers who take left turns and kill multiple riders. You must have forgotten...the roads are not just yours but OURS, and riders pay for the roads through their registration of motorcycles and gas tax. By the way I avoided an accident because I heard what was going on ahead and acted appropriately. Just because you saw 1 rider doing something inappropriate doesn't mean all riders act this way. Using that logic, if one woman is a terrible driver, does that make all women bad drivers? and No I don't believe in that premise.

gdls1's picture

Riding the yellow line puts

Riding the yellow line puts everyone on the road in danger.

gdls1's picture

Riding the yellow line puts

Riding the yellow line puts everyone on the road in danger.

prand27's picture
verified

Loud pipes save lives?

Why do they rev their engines at stop signs and red lights? I don't think it's so people can see them, and the "loud pipes save lives" campaign is a bit of a stretch. It's a good political maneuver, though (turn this into a safety issue so people won't oppose it). People cut me off and turn in front of me, and I'm driving a car. So maybe I should retrofit my muffler so that I have loud pipes, too--or maybe add a siren? Maybe we should all retrofit our mufflers so people will know we're there. Hey, maybe the problem is that no matter what you're driving (I've seen people who didn't notice cop cars with sirens and lights on), other drivers aren't paying attention. Upping the ante with loud mufflers isn't going to change that.

K0NPHL1C7's picture

Have you ever ridin a 25 year

Have you ever ridin a 25 year old carborated motorcycle? If you have, you would likley understand that on occasion the carb needs to be opened up whien idle to prevent stalling. I do not "rev" my bike be annoying or get attention, I do so to make sre she stays running.

As for the helmets, or seat belts for tht matter, the govenment has no place in regulating what only affects the safety of the individual, period. If I want to take terisk, it's my call.

If dos not cause harm to you, it is none of your business.

gdls1's picture

I've driven 25-, 30- and

I've driven 25-, 30- and 35-year-old bikes. When you need to rev it to keep it running, it's time for a visit to a good mechanic.
And your argument doesn't account for the noise from fuel injected bikes.

veritas's picture
verified

So clean out your carburetor, rather than my ear drums....

So clean out your carburetor, rather than blow out my ear drums....

The government can - and should - regulate what you do on public roads. Ride like a clown all you want on your own private land.

prand27's picture
verified

Business

I didn't say a word about helmets. Loud noise does cause harm so it is my business, and I don't want to hear it at 2 o'clock in the morning as I often do this time of year. I don't believe everybody who revs their engines at stop signs and stop lights have 25-year-old carborated motorcycles although I'm the first to admit I don't know what one looks like.

frnchmn's picture

They don't have to be 25 year

They don't have to be 25 year old bikes to be carborated...mine is 12 years old and its carborated. Now I do not rev my bike if I see padestrians and when I come home I shut my bike off and coast in so as not to bother my neighbors...BUT I don't need pinheaded politicos from Augusta who have no understanding of motorcycles telling me how to ride. Most of the police I've spoken to have said this law will be impossible to enforce. They would rather pull someone who is purposefully making excessive noise, which I agree they should do.

ihaterainydays's picture

Helmets save lives not mufflers

I choose to wear my seatbelt, but being forced to by law is frustrating. Especially when I'm being passed on the highway by a motorcycle doing 80 and the motorcyclist isn't wearing the most basic seafety feature available, a helmet. I agree that loud bikes are annoying, but the legislature should have used some common sense here and passed a law stating that ALL motorcyclists are required by law to wear a helmet at all times.

frnchmn's picture

what are you 2 years old? So

what are you 2 years old? So your argument is "if I have to be miserable so do you?" There are instances that a helmet would have aided in an accident...such as the accident I had. If I had a helmet on, I would not have heard what was going on ahead of me and I would have slide under a large dump truck. Instead I was able avoid the truck and instead of being crushed under the truck I slide and only broke 2 ribs. All because a inattentive driver was checking if their dog was ok in the back seat. His split second decision caused a 6 vehicle pile up and I was the last one. So I can speak from experience (30 years of riding) when I say a helmet doesn't automatically mean its safer.

ihaterainydays's picture

I'm old enough

to know that in some rare cases not wearing a helmet or even a seat belt may save a life, but also intelligent enough to know that safety devices on a whole do what they're designed to do, save lives. You should check the statistical data before you spew nonsense about being safer without a helmet. Check out the state data from 03-06. 47% of motorcycle accidents that occured were single vehicle occurances. The study also shows that head injuries accounted for the largest number of injuries that were classified as severe or critical. Use of a helmet reduced the risk of hospital care or death from a serious head injury by 53%. I will restate my opinion that a helmet law would make more sense than a noise ordinance law. I'm not miserable wearing my seat belt at all, and I feel extra protected by the 6,800 lb SUV that surrounds me with a reinforced cage for rollovers, multiple airbags and crumple zones that will ultimatley work together to help save my life. But I do fear for motorcycle operators who feel they don't need to wear a helmet. We're probably similar in age, but obviously the maturity level is different, I wouldn't resort to calling someone 2 years old. http://www.maine.gov/dps/bhs/crash-data/documents/Motorcycle_Crash_Study...

rdarluv's picture
verified

helmets.......

The reason you are wearing seat belts and we are not wearing helmets is because we stood up for ourselves and you did not! That was a choice you made.

ihaterainydays's picture

seatbelts

I wear my seatbelt to increase my chances of surviving an accident, not because the law states I have to. I've always worn my seatbelt and always will, even if that law were to be repealed. I commute roughly 80 miles a day and am reminded several times each way how fragile life really is. Have you ever counted all the crosses on Rt 4 from Livermore to Auburn? I am not concerned about wrinkling my clothes or being slightly uncomfortable from a belt across my shoulder if it increases the chances of me coming home to my family every night. How do you know how I vote or voted on specific issues? If you have psychic powers that tells you, I'd like to know my future. Sadly I can predict the future of many motorcyclists that are involved in accidents that are not wearing a helmet.

K0NPHL1C7's picture

What it boils down too, is

What it boils down too, is people beng "annoyed" and thinking that their being "annoyed" justifies legislation regulate all things that "annoy" them.

The fact is, is it doesn't cause HARM too you, it is none of your gawddamn business.

Thre are plenty of things that "annoy" me. Barking dogs, crying babies, foul smelling people at the grocery store...Where is the laws that regulate these annoyances?

This is clearl just a cash-grab by the state to make up budget shortfalls, because they all know that there aren't many out there who are going to change.

Fight tese charges in court! When you go, tell them you want a jury trial. STICK TO YOUR GUNS! The D.A. will try to persuade you to take a deal. DON'T BITE! It is the states burden to provide awitness or cross examination, meaning the cop HAS to be there. Chances are, he wont show.

If nothing esle, make this EXPENSIVE for the state to prosecue. Eff them, eff them big time.

prand27's picture
verified

Go to Court?

Are you going to pay those folks' court costs?

K0NPHL1C7's picture

Obviously you’ve never

Obviously you’ve never contested a charge before….

biker's picture
verified

Reply to KO

Hey KO
Sounds like you have lots of experience inside a court room. Let's hope with the new revisions of the motor vehicle laws on tampered and loud exhausts you will get to try out some more of your legal manuvering to avoid a fine and continue to operate with illegal equipment.

That will show them law makers, social police and regular people that endue your obnoxious noise at all hours. Way to go with that freedom thing. Being free and doing whatever you what and screw everyone else. How is that workin' for ya?

Thanks for being a considerate Maine citizen!

StacyL's picture

biker for the record my

biker

for the record my diploma came from St. Joseph college in Standish, nice calothic school, my parents are a very nice couple that have worked hard all their lives and never been anything but kind and generous to those around them. By the way they also ride.

I have know desire to be an outlaw or live out any gangster fantasies in the bad lands. I work 6am to 5 pm monday thru friday, I'm not a drinker I don't do drugs, I have a neatly kept home with a nicely mowed lawn, no out of wed lock childern or any of the other stereo typical crap your pushing.

Everything your saying is far more insulting and rude than I would ever have thought up. Looks like I'm not the one that was brought up wrong.

At least I'm smart enought to know if you keep policing the many to regulate the few, you wont have any freedoms left. I'm sure I could find something offense about you that I could push a law to stop, I'll I would neet to do is be pushy enough about it and find away for the state to make money off it.

mbthedragon's picture

StacyL. What is a CALOTHIC

StacyL. What is a CALOTHIC school? Also, it's ( no desire) not ( know desire). etc,etc,etc. At that Calothic school, did they not teach spelling as well as proper use of the English language?

veritas's picture
verified

It's not a 'Safety Device' - it's an 'Attitude'

The same one that eschews "Brain-Cages"

sadie's picture
verified

My best friend and her

My best friend and her partner are avid bikers...I have no problem with this group of people, but as someone already mentioned: Why at stop lights, stop signs, waiting in a line of traffic, etc.? It is especiall nerve-wracking when my infant is in my vehicle...I worry for her hearing. It also can't be good on her developing nervous system to be startled that often (we live near a busy road...bikes go by quite often) and that loudly. And when I hear it, when I'm driving, I'm more startled than "aware". Nervousness behind the wheel is not usually considered "safety".

joe public's picture

THERE is NO WAY Im for this

THERE is NO WAY Im for this LAW ........ Will NEW Motorcycle Dealers still be able to sell Loud mufflers as "For OFF ROAD USE ONLY "" You do not buy mufflers for off road use on a 20,000plus Harley if you are going to make it illegal to have them on your MC then it only seems right not to allow Dealers to profit from the sales of them !!!

biker's picture
verified

reply to Stacy..and other inconsiderate bikers

Much of this problem has to do with behavior modification when it comes to what we do to modify our vehicles and also how they are operated. Many "pro loud" riders say we already have enough laws in place to prevent this problem, yet it is worse then ever. They also wrongly claim it is only a few that openly break the laws in place by operating with altered pipes and operating their machines to produce ear shattering noise.
So when is this self policing by the loud crowd going to happen? Never of course. Its the same old story that has worked before just as the loud saves lives lie regurgetated up everytime we complain. Again we see Law Enforcement attempting to bargain with the offenders and reason with the unreasonable. Riding loud is not safe, it is the worst noise polution we suffer from, and it is as illegal as it would be if I removed my muffler from my truck. Yet it is an epidemic on the land and our homes and nothing is being done.

I don't care what mail order University you received your diploma from, but I do worry that you were not taught how to behave in public and therefore must be schooled by the rest of society. Sad really. As Chris Rock often says......must be the way you was raised!

So have so consideration from all of us that are listening to this obnoxious noise. The loud riders have all brought into the fifty year old outlaw fashion mistake that was all about anti social behaviour and unsafe lifestyles. Please go find a place in the desert to act out your outlaw fantasy and stay out of our neigborhoods. It is rude, loud, obnoxious and now more illegal then ever. More enforcement, fines and rules are needed for those that do not have the ability to have consideration for everyone else.

Bole's picture

Loud pipes wake people up

If you want to be heard, get an aaaahoooogaaa horn and blow it when you feel you need to be heard.

TREEHUGGARRR's picture

Rah, rah, bullcrap

Just another law, that once it comes to 8th District,the DA or the Judge will find a reason to invalidate the findings of the officer.

frnchmn's picture

You are exactly correct. The

You are exactly correct. The reason is, in their infinite idiocy, the legislators who tried to craft this P.O.S. legislation missed their mark again. when will we as Mainers demand better qualified legislators. Just so you know...to all you noise nazis, many of the law enforcement officers you are looking to follow through with this rediculous legislation ride and have aftermarket exhaust. At least they get it. If someone goes down a main street reving up their bike...NAIL them! I agree. But this approach with such a poorly written law is laughable.

rayd's picture
verified

Safety Issue????

I find it very humorous, when watching a TV story about the noise law, the other day. This guy was saying how loud bikes help people hear them coming and are a good thing for SAFETY. After stating his two cents he drives off helmet-less, onto a busy road. If he has such a concern for safety, where is his helmet. It would make his bike riding more safe than noise will. In accidents involving bikers, hundreds of helmet-less bikers are killed every year, that may have been only injured, had they been wearing helmets.

The loud noise is less relevant today, as an argument, than it was years ago. Today most people drive with cars closed up with AC units going and and radios, CD or MP3 players blasting, and they would never hear a loud bike. The only people that will hear the bikes are residents outside of their homes that are just just trying to enjoy some quiet time.

apdlt1's picture
verified

There is no reasonable excuse

There is no reasonable excuse for having a motorcycle that is loud enough to be heard accelerating a mile away in the middle of the night or one that can be the only vehicle heard among a group of vehicles waiting at a traffic light. The only reason for having loud exhaust is to bring attention to yourself and I don't mean in a safety conscious way. It's time to enforce these noise regulations so we can have some peace and quiet.

Maine Ken's picture

StacyL, are you serious that

StacyL, are you serious that the only way to avoid being hit by an inattentive truck driver was to scream your pipes? How about passing? Or heaven forbid, slowing down? Why take the chance of scaring the jerk on the cell phone? That was potentially more dangerous to you than any other course of action.

I could care less what bikers do to themselves, it is still a free country, however I do get offended when my vehicles get rattled and I can't hear anything when bikes with screaming pipes go by me on the big road. Shaking my house is also high on the offensive list.

I realize it is not all bikers, or even a majority. Unfortunately the bikers are not policing themselves and the few are definately ruining things for all.

frnchmn's picture

what is your house made of

what is your house made of cardboard? Do you think you might be embelishing a bit? If this all about being "offended" then I am OFENDED by many of the opinions against motorcycles...its my right but I'm not crying to the pinheads in Augusta to write a law to quite you. I find the neighbors dog barking all the time offensive BUT again, I am tolerant...maybe some here should try that on for size.

rdarluv's picture
verified

work....

Now, I am going to leave for WORK, I want you kids to get along while I am gone........

rdarluv's picture
verified

bilgerat......

Bilgerat, like we are saying, there is a time and a place for it and we don't all do it! You, like MECALM are stereotyping us.

Bilgerat's picture

Stereotyping

I'm not stereotyping anybody. Your remarks throughout this issue border on insulting and are certainly showing an intolerance of other viewpoints and an unwillingness to accept why this law was pushed on Mainers in the first place. Behavior such as this is really just auditory vandalism and indicative of a very small part of the biker population that don’t give a damn about anybody but themselves. If they could have restrained themselves from disturbing other’s peace and quiet the law wouldn’t have been needed. This behavior brings to mind small planes without any or very little muffling on the engine buzzing homes, something we see more and more of all over the state. Do they need to operate vehicles such as these for safety sake so that people will know they are there?

rdarluv's picture
verified

MECALM

MECALM is a very discriminatory group. They are painting bikers to be thugs and criminals when many of them are doctors, lawyers, and teachers. I bet some of them are even teaching YOUR children.

Bilgerat's picture

Revving

How can revving your engine at a stop light, stop sign or while parked in front of a stranger's home improve safety. I've seen and heard it frequently. It is only meant to provoke people that the rider doesn't know.

StacyL's picture

Loud Pipes

Wow, you guys really hate bikers don't you, you hate them so much you can't even think straight. I'm a 42 to year old human resources administrator, with a BS in Business an Associates in Paralagel studies and a 4.0 gpa. I have been riding all my life, the people that ride bikes are good decent people who would give you the shirt of their backs if you needed help.
I have mufflers on my bike not stock pipes, they can be loud and they can be quite and they have saved my life. Some guy in a truck talking on his cell phone kept swerving into my lane until I really revied the enginee and he noticed something besides his phone conversation.
There is a place for noise and their is a place to be quite. Most people know the difference and treat their bikes appropriately.
I think the real question is "DOES EVERYONE REALLY WANT ANTOHER LAW ON THE BOOKS TELLING YOU HOW YOU SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT BEHAVE" Don't most people have enough common since to treat each other with curtiousy with out the state house having to tell us to do it. Stop regulating the whole to take care of the few.
I don't need a law to tell me to turn my lights on in the rain, or my windshield wipers on. I don't need a law to tell me to move a way from the side of the road when I pass a guy walking his dog. I don't need a law telling me how many out side lights I can have on. Wake up people, pretty soon they will be telling you what color shirt you can wear and what color to paint your house. Maybe people out there should top judging each other and should just start treating each other with respect and kindness.

frnchmn's picture

StacyL...I am very glad you

StacyL...I am very glad you to are a fellow rider. You obviously have a level head on your shoulders AND your approach of respect and kindness is hard to argue against. Thank you for posting...and safe riding!

mbthedragon's picture

42 year old etc etc etc. Not

42 year old etc etc etc. Not bad for someone with a single digit IQ.

ojhuig's picture

Evidently, the answer to your

Evidently, the answer to your question is "yes". Face it, if safety were the issue, they'd all wear helmets.

biker's picture
verified

Another law needed?

Much of this problem has to do with behavior modification when it comes to what we do to modify our vehicles and also how they are operated. Many "pro loud" riders say we already have enough laws in place to prevent this problem, yet it is worse then ever. They also wrongly claim it is only a few that openly break the laws in place by operating with altered pipes and operating their machines to produce ear shattering noise.
So when is this self policing by the loud crowd going to happen? Never of course. Its the same old story that has worked before just as the loud saves lives lie regurgetated up everytime we complain. Again we see Law Enforcement attempting to bargain with the offenders and reason with the unreasonable. Riding loud is not safe, it is the worst noise polution we suffer from, and it is as illegal as it would be if I removed my muffler from my truck. Yet it is an epidemic on the land and our homes and nothing is being done.

I don't care what mail order University you received your diploma from, but I do worry that you were not taught how to behave in public and therefore must be schooled by the rest of society. Sad really. As Chris Rock often says......must be the way you was raised!

So have so consideration from all of us that are listening to this obnoxious noise. The loud riders have all brought into the fifty year old outlaw fashion mistake that was all about anti social behaviour and unsafe lifestyles. Please go find a place in the desert to act out your outlaw fantasy and stay out of our neigborhoods. It is rude, loud, obnoxious and now more illegal then ever. More enforcement, fines and rules are needed for those that do not have the ability to have consideration for everyone else.

jchick's picture
verified

Another law...

...or even a modification of the existing law (which is basically what this is) will not change a thing.

The problem is not that we don't have laws against noise pollution, the problem is we have no enforcement of noise pollution laws.

Basically, our legislators have wasted our time and money on a problem that can only be fixed if and when law enforcement agencies are given the time and resources to enforce it. And, I might add, making it manditory to display an inspection sticker will not change a thing. As others point out, those who like their bikes loud (and cars for that matter) will get a sticker with a "legal" muffler and then swap it out for their preferred muffler of choice.

If we aren't going to enforce the laws already on the books, why do we think new laws will make any difference?

John Chick
Monmouth, ME

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 1816. ME 14:384

rdarluv's picture
verified

MECALM......

Andy Ford, I think is the only one at MECALM that is actually from Maine, the rest are out of staters wanting us all to shut up so their state will follow suit.......there is more to this movement then just the loud pipes debate! They have stated that they will keep going all the way. That street rod you own, the weedwacker, the lawn mower, your ATV, and they will not stop until they have gone through all 50 states. Did you know that some parts of California already have noise ordinances against leaf blowers? There is a group in New York trying to ban car alarms!? In a city where auto thefts are a daily occurrence!! Most of us that run loud pipes agree that there is a limit. It is only the select few that take it too far. We will all pay for this one way or another, at one point or another. It will affect all of us soon.

frnchmn's picture

Thank you posting a rational

Thank you posting a rational opinion. Most here are blathering emotionally about me me me. I agree with you that this is the first of many steps and we Mainers have to prevent rediculous movements like this.

Hornet's picture

Exactly how many of those

Exactly how many of those 5000 on facebook that are "against this law" are from Maine? Read the law again. It does not state just motorcycles, it states that any vehicle has to have an exhaust system that is no louder that the system installed at the factory. The only bikers that see this as singling them out are the ones that are being too loud to begin with. Straight pipes on any vehicle are illegal. Get over it. If you don't feel safe riding a bike that is withing the limits of the law, don't ride a bike. If you don't feel safe driving a car that is within the limits of the law, don't drive a car. Simple enough?

ojhuig's picture

Yeah, well, if someone is so

Yeah, well, if someone is so lazy they can't even rake leaves, then they deserve to be fines. Noise polluters.

joe public's picture

Andy Ford should have a

Andy Ford should have a muffler installed on his big loud mouth !!! Why is it other people just can not mind their own business ???

gdls1's picture

Loud pipes are annoying and

Loud pipes are annoying and offensive. It makes me angry when any vehicle is louder than it needs to be and that some motorcyclists feel belligerently entitled to be intrusive, invasive and inconsiderate.
When vehicles will loud exhausts roar past, I want to deflate their tires, or worse. I never think "Oh, there goes a safe rider!"
Safety on a motorcycle? Wear a helmet; wear a florescent vest over the black leather; follow the rules of the road; be cautious and courteous.

jchick's picture
verified

Well, I for one...

....always wear a helmet and protective gear. My bike is bright orange, and I try to wear bright colors in an attempt to be seen. My exhaust is stock. My headlight, like all modern motorcycles, does not have an on/off switch. When the bike is running, the headlight is on.

Even at that, I still have people pull out in front of me or fail to yeild the right of way. I have learned to EXPECT it. In 2003, a kid pulled out in front of me while I was passing a slower vehicle (in a legal passing zone) and the result was a head-on collision with a pickup truck sporting a plow frame. He never looked in my direction (which was a failure on his part) but I've often wondered if I had been riding a bike with louder pipes, if it would have at least made him look in my direction.

John Chick
Monmouth, ME

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 1816. ME 14:384

frnchmn's picture

John...I'm glad you are still

John...I'm glad you are still here to tell your story. I had an accident where a 21 girl decided to pass 3 cars and pulled in front of me. I was able to avoid her front end but she still grazed me and I went sliding 250 feet down the road. She attempted to flee the scene and my friends went after her and yes they caught up to her and got her plate number.

gdls1's picture

...and keep your headlight

...and keep your headlight on.

frnchmn's picture

You obviously are not

You obviously are not familiar with the mechanics of motorcycles. You can't shut off headlights, because they are wired to "always be on". Just a little FYI. Another suggestion, it sounds like you and most people here need some anger management therapy: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RjRT4qBOzmQJ:therap...

gdls1's picture

I've owned 5 motorcycles back

I've owned 5 motorcycles back in my early days, and all needed their headlights turned on manually. Many riders still use these old classics.

rdarluv's picture
verified

keep in mind...

Keep in mind, I am not advocating drag pipes or extremely loud pipes, just the ability to keep my bike a little louder than stock. The revisions don't allow for ANY change at all on bikes, but they allow for some on cars and trucks. That's not fair, that IS discriminatory. Cars are aloud up to 95db, bikes can not be any louder than stock and it's the officers discretion to determine if it is. It would be my responsibility to prove it's not in court. Guilty until proven innocent for bikers......murderers and child molesters are innocent until proven guilty! The way it should be!

roadwolfwalker's picture

Loud pipes loud mouths

some of these nuts try and carry a conversation while doing 60 miles and hour Some of these bikes are so loud they cant hear the police or fireman behind them trying to get to a call Why does the empty headed nut have to riv his bike under bridges those people are lacking marbles most bikers drive safely but its the few nuts that spoil it for rest loud pipes =loud mouth

Gary52's picture
verified

Based on the reasoning that

Based on the reasoning that loud pipes save lives, that would mean that if I had an illegal exhaust system on my truck and couldn't "hear" the motorcycle, the excessive noise as a safety mechanism excuse would be pointless. I guess as long as only bikes can be loud, though, the argument stands...even if it is on a wooden leg.

rdarluv's picture
verified

PS: correct facebook page

The CORRECT facebook page for Mainers against the new revisions is: Citizens Against Maine's Revised Exhaust Law

rdarluv's picture
verified

comments.....

@Brain..... comments like yours are exactly why this debate has become so heated. This is exactly the type of stuff MECALM is saying, and they think they are professional in doing so. There is some common sense in the term "loud pipes save lives" but there isn't any at all in your comment. There can not be any data to back up our theory because the state and local governments don't keep track of "near misses"....why would they? They only keep track of injuries and deaths and then, the only concern is weather or not the rider had a helmet on. Not weather or not he had loud or quiet exhaust. You have to be a rider with a near miss or two under your belt to fully understand.

Angel's picture

I am an avid motorcycle

I am an avid motorcycle rider..we ride as often as we can. Just out on over 300 miles this weekend. We are SICK of the loud exhausts! And no we aren't old fuddies...we are in our mid 50's and have a 1800 bike..big enough to make some serious noise if we wanted to...but we DON"T..our exhaust is stock and we are keeping it that way. We have ridden in groups where some have the non stock exhaust..it is not a very pleasent ride to have it blatting in your face/ears every time they take off, and shift gears...we live on a well traveled road...there are bikes that go by and rattle the windows..jump the dogs..wake our neighbors child...it needs to be stopped!! It is NOT just bikes...there are some cars and trucks that are worse then the bikes...It states that there are 5000 on FAceBooks 'against the new law'..and only 150 that are on the 'for the new law' well, I will be joining the 'against' group after I am done this..now that this artical has been published I am sure there will be more joining!

Angel's picture

HUGE TYPO

I meant I will be joining the "FOR THE NEW LAW" group..dang, how do I delete/edit my own post?? I can't find it on here

ojhuig's picture

The reason safety vehicles

The reason safety vehicles have sirens is so cars will get out of the road to let them pass. So that argument is pretty dumb. Loud bikes are auditory graffiti. It's vandalism, an assault, and I am sick of it. Make the law more specific with a decibel limit and then enforce it.

jchick's picture
verified

It is also...

...so that people waiting at stop signs and/or pulling out of their driveway will be alerted NOT to pull out in front of them.

The #1 motorcycle accident scenario (involving automobiles) is pulling out in front of, or turning into the path of the motorcycle because "they didn't see" it. Emergency vehicles use both flashing lights and sirens in an attempt to avoid this type of accident, as well as get people to pull over.

John Chick
Monmouth, ME

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 1816. ME 14:384

Brain's picture

A fact...

..the louder the pipe, the smaller the brain.

It's noise pollution that offends the general public.

frnchmn's picture

With such an intellictually

With such an intellictually myopic remark as your's Brian...you should have kept you opinion to yourself instead you posted this little nugget of wisdom which removed all doubt as to your intellectual horsepower...I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say you must be trying out for the scarecrow part in The Wizard of Oz...

By the way, my 90 year old neighbor thinks what you call noise pollution is sweet music to her ears. I personally find your ignorance and lack of tolerance an intellectual pollutant. Please do not infect more people than those who have been infected already.

Brian if you own a home...do you mow your lawn? If so you are probably making louder sound than my motorcycle.

Brain's picture

It's Brain NOT Brian

...Your loud pipes are showing

frnchmn's picture

HAHAHAHA! Yout think I'm

HAHAHAHA! Yout think I'm going to call you "brain" with the toxic intellectual primordial ooze you post here? You are too funny, and by funny I mean I'm laughing at you not with you. By the way, I've prepared for brainiacs like you and your "noise police" I've purchased something for my motorcycle that I believe you will appreciate: http://www.stebel.it/stebel2009/products.asp?IDserie=14&uso=1&tipologia=...
If you hate my fellow riders exhaust...wait until I unleash horn when you perform a no look lane change like 2 cars from Massachusetts did while on their cell phones about 6 inches from my front wheel.

So "brain" hehehhe...do you have anything else with which to enlighten with? I'm sure you are full of substance...or is it solids. HAHAHA!

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