The story "Burning desire" in the July 11 Sun Journal led to a lot of discussion about one little boy’s fascination with fire. I wonder why is he the way he is? What to do? How to help him?
The only long-term chance at a solution for this child and the safety of others seems to be the Brandon School in Massachusetts, at a cost of $410 a day.
No one can watch over him every second. Not socializing leads to other problems. Lock him up? Where? No life for the child and no help for his problem. And when he obtains adult status, he could move anywhere and take his fascination with him.
The state of Maine is in the red financially and has to choose carefully how to spend money. I think the state can and should invest in that boy.
Firemen say he won’t stop setting fires, so we must weigh the threat to life and property against the small cost of helping that boy.
June Chartier, Auburn
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Whats really important!
Jesus' dinosaur BBQ!
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I guess you don't understand my point. You don't know this woman or her current family situation. You said you heard she's doing well...that holds more weight than someone saying they heard the father of her child burned him? They are both heresay. Neither holds more weight than the other. Truth be told, none of us knows anything about this case for sure. It's a 50/50 chance that the mom does or does not deserve to keep custody of her child. You know nothing about this, yet it does not keep you from calling out others in the same boat as you. You don't know, and yet you stick up for her, why? Things we know: this mom asked the Sun Journal to write a story about her son not getting help he needs, this mom is on welfare and has section 8 housing, this mom had three kids out of wedlock with two different fathers. Do these things, by themselves, make her a bad mom? Not necessarily. But contrary to what you believe, I don't think they make her a good mom either. To say again; putting your name on the line and sticking up for someone you don't know in a situation you know nothing about is the SAME as putting your name on the line by condemning someone you don't know in a situation you know nothing about.
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damn double post
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It happens to alot of posters these days... :)
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I guess you don't understand my point. You don't know this woman or her current family situation. You said you heard she's doing well...that holds more weight than someone saying they heard the father of her child burned him? They are both heresay. Neither holds more weight than the other. Truth be told, none of us knows anything about this case for sure. It's a 50/50 chance that the mom does or does not deserve to keep custody of her child. You know nothing about this, yet it does not keep you from calling out others in the same boat as you. You don't know, and yet you stick up for her, why? Things we know: this mom asked the Sun Journal to write a story about her son not getting help he needs, this mom is on welfare and has section 8 housing, this mom had three kids out of wedlock with two different fathers. Do these things, by themselves, make her a bad mom? Not necessarily. But contrary to what you believe, I don't think they make her a good mom either. To say again; putting your name on the line and sticking up for someone you don't know in a situation you know nothing about is the SAME as putting your name on the line by condemning someone you don't know in a situation you know nothing about.
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Truth be told, this woman has never been charged with any abuse! And your point is? This woman is on section 8...so are thousands of ther people in the state of Maine...Welfare? In 2009, Maine was the second highest welfare state in the country...should all these families have their children taken from them? Three kids out of wedlock with two different fathers? lol...and though it may not be moral, where is it illegal? My, do you know how many of the rich and famous have had three children with two different men...out of wedlock? Perhaps you should go read your bible. The woman at the well would be a good story for you to start with....the Lord did not condemn her...so who are you to judge or condemn anyone!
You don't think I should be sticking up for her? Get it right, I would defend anyone that was being attacked by a bunch of malicious, immature, school girls that pick on the poor children. Isn't that what some of you are doing? You somehow see this mother as less than you are? Those that are really poor are those of you that have attacked this mother and her son and their family! Shame on all of you!
You say, I am putting my name on the line and sticking up for someone I don't know in a situation I know nothing about. And what do you know about this situation?
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I don't know anything except for what I already stated about this case. I'm not saying anything. It's both nature and nurture, and with the seriousness of this child's antisocial behavior the family life must be examined. Not to do so is foolish and irresponsible. If you would like to slow down and read my previous post again, you'd see I was simply stating facts. I didn't judge her because she gets welfare or is immoral. I simply stated the facts that we know about the case. I know great mothers on welfare and I know horrible mothers on welfare, that's not my point. I just feel you're quick to come to her defense. And you did so without facts. It's weird, that's all. What if it comes out that he's in a bad environment? You'll be eating your hat. I still don't understand how supporting what goes on in their house is better than condemning it....the supporters and condemners alike have the same knowledge base...they're both jumping to conclusions. About the Bible, you don't need to school me in that. I didn't "judge or condemn anyone". I've put my rep on the line for people before and it hasn't always turned out pretty.
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Conserva-Mom, you say, the family life must be examined. This child is a pyromaniac...He has been being treated by multiple agencies. Don't you think DHHS has examined this family inside and out? My goodness. I will never eat my hat...because I have not made this about the family. I have made it about this little boy getting help. Yet when I saw what some posters had to say about this child, and then attacked a mother that was seeking help for this child...I stood on the side of fairness. What's fair, is that no one should ever be attacked because they are poor, on welfare...or because their child needs help for an illness. Just because someone decides to assume something about someone else, does not give them the right to defame them.
What is weird about wanting the best for everyone? What is wrong with believing the best in people instead of the worst? It's not hard to stick up for people we don't know, especially if they are being victimized by bullies. I never said Laura was perfect, and I don't know anymore than you do...and that is why I will not judge her. Again I say, I agree with June, we should invest in this child.
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Those are probably the same things the DHHS workers were saying in the Angela Palmer case right up until the fireman opened the oven door. Probably a whole lote of other dead child cases too.
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Number one, neither John Lane, nor Cynthia Palmer, ever went to the community for help for a child that was a pyromaniac! You are a vicious human being. What is it with you...Dim-wit? Do you go around comparing everyone that does not meet up to your standards to the Angela Palmer murder? YOU are truly one sick human being. Can you imagine how this mother and her oldest daughter, her family members feel when they read your hateful posts? I'm sure you don't...how could you?....you have about as much compassion for others, as John Lane had for Angela Palmer.
CommonSense, you are depraved in intellect and heart...you are nothing short of a monster!
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Me thinks thou dost protest too much. So, Madeleine who in your family had their child removed by DHHS. It seems as though you are a little to close to this situation. Your postings on this and the previous article are so over the top. You condemn people who form opinions without knowing the mother, but do you know her? You post sad stories about foster parents...do you know this mother isn't exactly like that? No. Your opinions that this child should stay in the home have exactly the same weight as the opinions that the other people have about her needing to leave.
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Conserva-Mom, you thought wrong. I do not have anyone in my family, and I do not have any friends or aquiantances that have ever lost there children to DHHS either. I hope that doesn't surprise you. I protest to much...lol :) I bet the little children with no voice, don't agree with you. :) I condemn no one, you must really go back and reread. Yet, I do not condone people that lie, make up stories, or defame others...inorder to make themselves somehow feel superior. It is wrong, especially when the object of ridicule is a seven year old child. I believe it is wrong that his mother somehow became a kicking boy. I really found that, not only disturbing, but disgusting also.
"You condemn people who form opinions without knowing the mother, but do you know her?"
I knew her when she was a little girl...she is my daughters age. Yet, she was just visiting with neighbors the times I saw her. She was always polite, always courteous. Her childhood was less than ideal...like many other children. But she worked through it. And from time to time, over the years...I have heard that she was a good person, and that her children were beautiful. She touched my heart when she was little, and I never forgot her.
My post towards foster care was not sad at all. CommonSense, believes that this woman should not only have her son taken away, but she should have all her children taken away and placed in foster care. How well do any of you know this mother?...and have any of you met her children? You ask me,..."do you know this mother isn't exactly like that?" Do you know that she is? I can tell you that she loves her son enough to seek help for him. I was reminding Common Sense, that children are sometimes abused and die in foster care also....not only in their parents care. This mother was not attacked because she is an abusive parent...she was ridiculed for having a child that is a pyromaniac.
Pretty sad to be attacked, when all you are trying to do is get your child help. This was a story about not having any help in this state for children that are prromaniacs, not about who could slam this mother the hardest. Some comments, such as the one that she should burn her own child, was inhumane!
You say, my opinions that this child should stay in the home have exactly the same weight as the opinions that the other people have about her needing to leave. I beg to differ. Your opinions, are based on gossip, and unwarranted self-importance, not proof. You have made your minds up without any substantiated proof. I find that very disturbing. I am not going to judge her, or make any determination about her...on mere unsubstantiated gossip. There are enough people involved in this childs case, that if he were being abused, I believe he would be removed by now.
"her needing to leave"? What the heck is this about? Now you are saying she should leave her home and abandon her children? I'll tell you what is over the top, the defaming of a woman you do not know, making unsubstantiated accusations about her, and making a judgement that she should have her children taken away, with no grounds for removal. What is this the Harper Valley PTA?
I hope you understand that my motive is love for children, not some children, all children. :) Remember one thing Conserva-Mom...this child is someone's child, someone's sibling, someone's nephew, and grandson, someone's cousin, he is someone's friend...he is a little boy that needs help....He hasn't been removed from those he loves, and those that love him for a reason...Perhaps he is not endanger at home...did you ever think about that?
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Are you suggesting that these three siblings should be separated?
No Doubt In My Mind?
"The article 10 days ago in SJ along with the comments from the mother and aunt left no doubt this child is being abused and neglected (paperwork not filed.)"
Please produce your proof. If you haven't any....you are nothing more than a mere gossip!
"Furthermore extreme abuse was reported that the mother did not dispute;"
Where and who were these extreme abuse alligations, reported to? These were accusations, not substantiated with proof, by a poster. That post was removed! Why should this mother defend lies? Do you know what defamation of character is?...do you know what slander is?
"she was interested in disputing that her current fella is a drug addict though. She was more interested in protecting her fella and what she can get than the welfare of these children."
Her fella, is her husband...did you miss that part? This mother defended her son and herself ...and was attacked for doing so. Some of the posters were absolutely shameless.
" It was reported they were burned with cigarettes among other things, she did not dispute that or any other abuse."
This was not reported, a poster by the name of Brigg's made these alligation. How do you know if this poster was not a disgruntled ex-boyfriend, disgruntled ex-family member, disgrunted co-worker, etc. Or perhaps he was a troll, or maybe he was just a gossip, like others that post here. How do you know, Common sense? You don't know do you?
"Foster care has come a long way since the 1800s, this is 2010 after all."
( shaking my head)
Logan Marr was murdered January 31, 2001, in Chelsea, Maine.
Just google, "children murdered in foster care". This is 2010...and"some" foster homes, are only getting worse.
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Perhaps you should change your name from "Common Sense", to "Dim-Wit"...it's more fitting. :)
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It is also possible with so many folks adopting older children these days that all three of these children could well be adopted into good homes if DHHS would act before disastor takes a life. Certainly the youngest could be expected to be adopted quickly.
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.We don't want another Mary Ellen either!
Present day child savers often point to the story of little Mary Ellen, who in 1874, was beaten so badly that a woman by the name of Mrs. Wheeler, who worked for the St. Luke's Methodist Mission, had to intervene on her behalf. In desperation, Mrs. Wheeler turned to the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, and finally had Mary Ellen removed from her home. Today's child savers point out that this is a shining example of the long ignored need for government intervention for families with abused children. What they don't tell you is that little Mary Ellen wasn't abused by her parents. She was a Civil War orphan, and the Department of Charities had placed Mary Ellen in a foster home. It was the foster mother who had beaten the child within an inch of her life.
No where was it ever reported that Rae was abused or neglected by his mother. Not only did DHHS take quick and decisive action to help this child, His mother did also!
And may we never forget Logan Marr either!
The foster mother, Sally Schofield, maintained that Logan had tangled herself in the duct tape, but her story soon crumbled. Sally was arrested and charged with depraved indifference, murder, and manslaughter. A prosecution affadavit alleged that she had taped Logan into her high chair, and taped her mouth shut. Sally waived her right to a jury trial, and a judge concluded that she had not intentionally killed Logan. But he found her guilty of manslaughter and sentenced her to 20 years in prison.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/fostercare/marr/
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Can you imagine if it was a foster father that had done that? He would never have seen freedom again.
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I removed your comment because it is completely unsubstantiated and while I have not yet read all 200 comments on Lindsay's story I assure you that when I find the ones to which you are referring I will remove them too.
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Are you saying people can not go back and read the original article and postings and see the contents of the articles and what the aunt and mother wrote for themselves? I surely can say what I have no doubt about in my own mind without having to prove to anyone I have no doubt in my mind of this.
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Well, we have a policy against spreading potentially libelous information so, no, you can't say that here.
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So today you decide to finally enforce it? Wow!
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you've been hiding for days?
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Thank the good Lord, CommonSense, that people are not arrested and incarcerated, even worse, have their children taken from them because of gossipers, screaming, " I surely can say what I have no doubt about in my own mind without having to prove to anyone I have no doubt in my mind of this." Wow...I've heard it all! You slander because you "now someone is guilty, in YOUR OWN MIND?" Amazing!
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" Wow...I've heard it all! You slander because you "know someone is guilty, in YOUR OWN MIND?" Amazing!
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I wish she would have been home with her mother. I wish she were here today to be her sisters best friend. I agree, if Sally's husband would have commited this atrocity...I believe the sentence would have been much longer. I wish Sally would have had a jury trial. She had been restraining this child, and I believe this foster mother was out of control. That's what worries me about some of the posts that have been posted. These are adults that truly believe this little boy is a pyromaniac due to lack of discipline. I have seen some posters suggest all sorts of abusive suggestions. It really amazes me, and it really is scary.
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This boy and his siblings have been at the forefront of SJ readers attention since being introduced by Lindsay Tice 10 days ago. It would be a shame to have them become national news and forever infamously recognized names such as Angela Palmer and Caylee Anthony have become because DHHS fails take quick and decisive action to permanently remove these children from this home. I hope and pray these children do not become three more horrific statistics.
Patty, can you provide the many concerned SJ readers with any update on status of these precious children. Perhaps Lindsay could do a follow-up story for all of those who do not read online and of course keep online readers who clearly care informed in the future
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.I just spoke to Lindsay and
I just spoke to Lindsay and she said she plans to follow up with the boy's mother. If there is news to share about her son or the Brandon school, we'll post it.
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.I agree, June
I believe children are our future. There is no greater investment to be made, than investing in a child. I feel sorry that this little boy has had to receive the brunt of ignorant remarks...and hate filled suggestions such as, taking him from his mother, beating him, burning him etc.
I believe that this child is far from being the only pyromaniac in the state. Infact, I read another mother's testimony as to what she went through because her child too was a pyromaniac. It was posted in the sj article, "Burning desire". This morning sj has a story about an eighteen year old volunteer fire fighter that set fire to a restaurant.
I am hoping that at some point, the state of Maine invests in its own treatment center. Perhaps even one of our hospitals, would be willing to invest in such a center. I believe if we can cure children while they are young, perhaps we wouldn't have to be incarcerating these children when they turn eighteen and facing arson charges.
The cost of incarceration, will out way any preventive measure costs.
I agree June, we should invest in this child. :)
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a firefighter so he will always have a job. Or take him away from his mother and give him to a set of CONSERVATIVE parents so they can beat him, instead of the dog . Win win. Maybe Paul Lepage can get involved and teach him how the earth is only 6,000 years old so fire is a relatively NEW thing and was invented by Gawd and given to man to separate us from the animals. You know really instill some real work ethics into him and maybe just maybe he can be a stockboy at Mardens some day too.
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God invented fire so Jesus could have a dinosaur barbecue.
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Never before in my life have I wanted to go to something as much as Jesus' dinosaur BBQ!
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