Truth is said to be the first victim of any war.
So it is not surprising that small distinctions are the casualties of political warfare.
The current tempest over President Barack Obama's comments regarding a proposed mosque and community center in lower Manhattan is a case in point.
Saturday, Obama waded into the debate over the $100 million Islamic center two blocks from where 3,000 people died when Islamic extremists flew two jetliners into the World Trade Center nine years ago.
Since then, a variety of politicians have voiced either support or opposition to the plans. Generally, survivors of those who died on Sept. 11, 2001, have demanded the mosque not be built.
Friday, Obama stated what should be apparent to all Americans:
"As a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country," he said.
"That includes a place of worship and community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances."
The U.S. Constitution guarantees as much. In a very dry, legal sense, government cannot interfere with the right of people to practice their religion.
It matters not what "the people" or "most people" want. The Constitution and Bill of Rights supercede public opinion.
After the president's comments, the lead story on TV and in morning newspapers became the president's "support" for a mosque.
So, the next day, Obama tried to slightly recalibrate those remarks, always a dangerous undertaking.
When questioned about his comments, Obama said he was not commenting on the "wisdom" of the decision to build the mosque.
Aha! Both critics and supporters blasted the president for backing off his original comments.
Lost, however, in the hurry-up world of instant commentary was a small but important distinction that is crucial to this issue.
It may be perfectly legal for this mosque to be built, and there may be nothing any layer of government can do to stop it.
It may also, at the same time, be very unwise.
The issue has rubbed many New Yorkers the wrong way, despite the stated intent of the project, which is to celebrate tolerance.
The nuances are many: There is another mosque less than a block away that has been there for 50 years. A number of Muslims were killed on 9/11. Islam has had a presence in the U.S. dating back to the nation's founding. Many of the people supporting this project are third or fourth generation American-Muslims.
On the other hand, the emotional pain of the survivors and rescuers of the World Trade Center terrorist attacks cannot be discounted.
One would think the supporters of the project would have done some outreach before announcing their plans. Perhaps built some bridges and trust, laid some groundwork before making their decision.
That, apparently, did not happen.
Now, we are simply left with an increasingly angry standoff framed against a Constitutional imperative.
Yes, a mosque can be built.
But the ultimate question for its supporters may be whether it will come to represent more of a monument to obstinance than tolerance.
editorialboard@sunjournal.com

What a bunch of boobs. You
What a bunch of boobs. You don't mess with the Constitution. Period.
If it bothers you so much, there are a hundred freedom of speech methods you can use to make their lives miserable.
Be creative, and you can run them right out of the neighborhood. To all the racists, and self-righteous morons, just bomb the mosque yourselves, and shutup. Please use their methods, though, so you blow up too.
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Why are some posters comparing the crusades to 9-11? That happened centuries ago. I
think christians are not anywhere near as barbaric as they were back then. Can't say that for alot of the radical Islamists though.
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Bush compared the American war platform to the Crusades therefore you cannot deny that what happened centuries ago was used to inspire the war of this era. What you are thereby saying is it occurs just fine to merely lop off those statements from President Bush. Which encourages the factors that radical Christianity of the crusades is proper to embrace. Then pushing it all to the closet so that it cannot be granted exposure to the American public. Christians are just as barbaric when they are encouraged to forget history and engage anew on the Crusades.
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I never mentioned Bush, he's an idiot, it's an insult to say he represents christianity.
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families of those of the Muslim faith who perished in the WTC feel about the building of the mosque and the rancor of those against it?
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It is two city blocks from ground zero which defines it as an off base land marker and while the radical Christian right promotes racism and hatred it really does not matter what they think. As they use the logical good and Christian they forget that Good Christian soldiers raped, slaughtered, and tortured Muslim's during the ill-fated Crusades. I'm glad that Frost and his band of racists and cowards have their own GOD which they weigh above others. Why does this seem like fighting the counter reformation effort of the Catholic Church it seems that embracing freedom of religion means creating the Church as a political power base. As for Gil the argument over the Saudi royal families and others is that their expansionist efforts reached the far right in their angle of control through lobbyists. This means that human rights violations occur because of the Conservative isolationists beliefs that because it is further away from the United States that it does not matter. So, why do these so called American Conservatives support the Iraq war and demean President Obama; all the while donating and supporting to Conservatives who aim to supply the radical Muslim leaders with extensive freedoms. I think in the well tied political regime of Conservatives we see the mirrors of what they want to extract from the Muslim would into the Christian world in the United States.
To paraphrase Nixon on political thoughts Conservatives are more dangerous then any Communist regime to date. As they swallow the Communist pills looking to build new colonial empires. All this comes from two city blocks next to the world trade center and freedom of religion. Many Muslim's escaped from the horrors of their own countries including Middle Eastern Christians only to be judged and betrayed based on their skin color or accents. If you want to fund a terrorist State and supply extensive lobbyists with fundings for political dictation Gil and Frost then why must the innocent suffer while you seek to eat the political cake and drink the wine of their blood along with it?
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and historically correct comment. Muslims is plural and not possessive though. (as in Muslim's)
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I aimed for the correctness in history without any thought of political correctness. Which means also when Bush deemed it the crusade he forgot history during the crusades when soldiers were captured by Muslims; they were allowed to have farms, raise families, and worship Jesus without fear of the Church or their foreign monarchy agents. When more radical arms gained European approval despite being descended from European citizenry they suffered under radical Muslim statesman. In the colonial senses this allowed for Christians and moderate Muslims to suffer under their own government. As long as a friendly face to American sympathies populated the office; then it was fair to execute Middle Eastern Christians and moderate Muslims along with Jews.
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No mosque so close to twin towers ..............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
.................................................
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Aha! Both critics and supporters blasted the president for backing off his original comments.
Frankly, he didn't back off, he expanded on his prior comments. What he initially said is correct. If we hold our constitution to be the moral guidepost that we want it to be, then the rights of the Muslim community in Manhattan must be upheld. Granted, the wisdom of building it so close to the site of the WTC is questionable, but as free Americans, we also have the right to make bad or unpopular decisions.
Pirate said: ...how about opening a Satrialle's Pork Store next to a mosque in Dearborn? How about a strip club next to a mosque in Mecca.(?)" The pork store next to a mosque in Dearborn, again, may not be a wise decision since the predominant population probably isn't going to patronize your business, but it isn't illegal. As for a strip club next to a mosque in Mecca, that's an irrelevant question because we are not talking about other countries, in this case Saudi Arabia, we're talking about the United States where our constitution guarantees the right of free assembly and to practice (or not) one's religion without interference from the government. The Republicans have chosen to make this an issue, forcing the hands of some Democrats. What would the Republicans have the government do? Would they prefer the government step in and tell the Muslim community, that because of the actions of some radicals who profess the religion, they no longer have the same rights the rest of us do and therefore can't build their Islamic center? If so, that would be a rather slippery slope; one that I don't think many of us would like to travel. Using that same logic, would you prefer that because some fundamentalist Christians have committed murders and other violence in the name of their religion, we therefore should deny the rights of the law abiding members of those churches to worship where they wish? Again, I don't think that's a road that we want to head down.
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Cranky, but to change one closed mind regarding the president's comments is asking the impossible as is the critical reasoning of the placement of the mosque.
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It doesn't matter if it is in bad taste or not, it is a free country. An arsonist can move into or near the building he torched even if someone died in it. It isn't illegal to be a tasteless clueless moron no matter how much it upsets the family of the guy who died in the fire.
The KKK got into trouble in the 60s and 70s not for hating but for killing and burning down churches.
So what the reasoning is that the motives are irrelevant to their building this mosque there. Some claim the guy behind it is a terrorist or is associated with terrosism, it doesn't change anything until they break the law. It makes no matter how much bad taste it is in being there or insensitive it is
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with Saudi Arabia, as shareholders has been mentioned here. Did anyone also catch that FOXSNOOZE the "ahem" unfair and unbalanced, we retort you decide" """""NEWS""""" organization, gave $1,000,000 to .....................................................................RGA the, yes that is right, the Republican Governors Association. I guess they have decided to come "out of the closet", so to speak and let everyone that did not know( that would be FOXSNOOZE viewers) that they are an arm of the REPUBLICAN PARTY. Of course we all know that this is a typo and they are sending a check for the same amount to the DGA, and when it arrives I will announce it here so we can all breathe a collective sigh of relief that FOXSNOOZE did the right thing and is UNBIASED.
A For the period beginning 04/01/2010 and ending 06/30/2010
B Check applicable box: 4 Initial report Change of address Amended report Final report
1 Name of organization Employer identification number
Republican Governors Association 11 - 3655877
2 Mailing address (P.O. box or number, street, and room or suite number)
1747 Pennsylvania NW Suite 250
City or town, state, and ZIP code
Washington, DC 20006
3 E-mail address of organization: 4 Date organization was formed:
madams@rga.org 10/04/2002
PS I like that address madams@. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmhmmmmmmmmmmmm
Contributor's name, mailing address and ZIP code Name of contributor's employer
NEWS AMERICA INC. N/A
1211 AVE OF THE AMERICAS 3RD FLOOR Contributor's occupation Amount of contribution
NEW YORK, NY 10036 N/A $ 1000000
Aggregate contributions year-to-date Date of contribution
$ 1000000 06/24/2010
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The editorial board and a large percentage of the posters on here are arguing over whether this is about Constitutional rights or diversity. The rights exist, nobody speaking out against this mosque have said they don't. The diversity argument from the lefties on here is laughable. Islam is the most intolerant religion existing today. As a non muslim, try and visit Mecca/Medina. You are simply not allowed. Your infidel feet will taint the ground. Try and go to Saudi Arabia and preach the Gospel. Or, if you are a muslim, try and change religions. So diversity has nothing to do with it. If the mosque is an actual attempt to bridge some kind of whatever, why do those involved in the planning refuse to meet with Governor Patterson to find a site agreeable to all? If it has nothing to do with pandering to the "religion of peace" then why hasn't the Greek Orthodox Church that was destroyed on 9/11 been rebuilt yet? That leaves one possible explanation - Victory Mosque.
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... shot every arrow in their quivers today. The merry band of happy morons (tron, veritas and lil, et al) have trotted out most of their known hang-ups. We have bigot, teabagger, Nazi, ... others I forget. Oh, yeah, the ever popular, and extremely overused, Faux News. Get some new material, chumps. You're all so fascinated with what you perceive as clever vocabulary, you don't see how easily and quickly you make fools of yourselves. What a bunch of shallow wagon-riders.
And, Truthie, you're right - I don't have the rank to order you below. But it's clear for all to see that you're most comfortable down there swamping toilets, where you spent all of your first career. Then it was on to the toilet called Illinois. Did your town have, like Chicago, walking dead Democrats? Or were you too busy cooping and snarfing donuts to notice? Do yourself a favor and stop getting your news from Sesame Street. You're starting to look less like that poor dog and more like Oscar the Grouch.
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I hope you didn't mean me? Sounds like you are describing Veritas.
I hope it isn't me, if it is then i apologize.
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He found it in a fortune cookie.
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That liddle Dog had more on the Ball than Palin the Barbie Doll
So it's our fault you resemble " bigot, teabagger, Nazi?" It's a be-itch you're showing your hand.
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... any time you like. One finger on it.
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and God save us from turmoil
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Do we allow Catholic churches near playgrounds?
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And the bigotry shines through. Brighter and clearer than anyone else's.
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If I use the twisted logic that all Muslims are terrorists and they shouldn't be allowed to build a community center near ground zero, it seems reasonable to assume all Catholic priests are pedophiles and there shouldn't be Catholic churches anywhere near a playground. Or is there different logic at work?
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The difference is that a pedophile priest is 1)committing a sin and 2) commiting a crime being a pedophile
A terrorist muslim, though they may be committing a crime in this country, according to the Qu'ran they are enacting Allahs will by committing the act and cleansing the earth of nonbelievers.. There is a big difference here.
One is committing an act shunned bay all...The other is trying to be a martyr to his fellow followers of Islam and become the inspiration to others to follow in their footsteps.....
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Ever read the Holy Bible??
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sure does!
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All those comparing this to opening a pork stand or strip club next to a Mosque, your letting your bias show. September 11th was an attack on all of America, including the 7 million Muslim Americans. However, a majority of American's have forgotten that. The Oklahoma City bombers were Catholics, but no one thinks of Catholics as terrorists.
So lets face the facts that we are bigoted. We are the home of the free if your from Western Europe. Otherwise, go back to Mexico or whatever place you came from.
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Lets go open a catholic church next to a mosque in Afghanistan... Hmmmmmmm?????/ What would happen????????? And while we are at it lets place a Jewish Temple acroos the street from both of em.......... Im sure the muslims in their homeland would be sooooo accepting of other religions in they're country.... Wasnt there just a news story about americans being killed last week in afghanistan because they were supposedly preaching christianity while giving medical aid to afghani people...... Yeah what a good example of acceptance of others beliefs..... Who are the bigots really?? They cry accept us accept us and we have rights but if the shoe was on the other foot they would be beheading us in the streets of they're homecountry... Why dont all the bleeding hearts go over there and try to promote christianity or any religion other than Islam..... GOOD LUCK with that..
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to more clearly mirror the religious intolerance of Afghanistan, be my guest and try. I will oppose you every step of the way.
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Geez and I thought you said you believed in diversity.....hmmmm
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No one said ammend the constitution.. But maybe a zoning change is in order.
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So your saying we should be as tolerant as the Taliban?
So, where should I pick up my acid, cause that Sarah Palin is way too uppity, so I'm gonna acid her up.
Oh wait, we're the good guys. We act rationally and try to embrace the differences in others. We don't target innocents. We try and make the world a better place. And we allow for differences in opinion, especially when it comes to big questions like how we should relate to God.
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Im saying if Islam wants us to be tolerant of them and respectful of their beliefs , then they should be tolerant of us and our beliefs.. But according to their Qa'ran they cannot be tolerant of us due to the fact that we are not believers of Allah and we do not conform to sharia (spelling?) law.. It is written that they (if following the word of Allah as told to mohamed) should carry out Allahs justice and rid the world of non believers. Do christians set out to rid the world of nonchristians? Do jews set outto rid the world of nonjews? etc..........
Did we invade Afghanistan prior to 9/11? NO!!! Did we declare war on radical islam and the followers of the taliban prior to them attacking us??? NO
Say what you want but we did not ask for 9/11 to happen... They declared war on us, and it is our duty and right to keep our streets safe and not allow them to infiltrate and destroy us from within by unconventional means.. They have done it before and they will try to do it again. The real question is how easy do we want to make it for them????
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Were you aware of that? We armed the Mujahadeen with weapons we bought from Egypt, Israel, Communist China, and other countries which could provide us with with weaponry similar to the ones the Soviets were using in Afghanistan and could not be traced back to us. Eventually, after the Soviets became aware that we were arming the Mujahadeen to throw the Soviets out of Afghanistan, we even supplied them with Stinger ground to air missiles.
This is the same 'Mujahadeen' which later helped attack us and is now fighting us in Afghanistan.
Cool, huh. Did we ask them to attack us??
Meddle in their affairs, and soon enough they'll bloody your nose. You know so little about history and the East.
This is why it is better to have American Islamists as our allies and friends, rather than to alienate them.
But hey - keep being stupid.
Or read George Criles' "Charlie Wilson's War" and see how deep in bed we were ove there......
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Yeah no sh-t sherlock but you ask the question, Did we ask them to attack us? Ask them the same question and the answer will be yes.... Why yes you say... Hmmmm well we delivered tons of weapons and ammo for the fight against the Soviets.. Why? Because the enemy of our enemy was our friend...Does that mean we didnt have to make all kinds of deals and promises for them to set aside they're ideals to work with non islam believers. Im sure we did have to wheel and deal. Then when the government cut off Charlie Wilson and his band of Christians In Action(CIA) from funds and weapons, the flow stopped to the afghanis and they were left with no more weapons and no infrastructure and no economy to rebuild with.... Did it cross your mind that maybe old Charlie and the CIA made promises they couldnt keep to get the support of the Mujahadeen? Then when they cut tail and ran they instilled the hatred of America into these people... If someone gave you promise of riches and prosperity and alliance in trade for your hard work and blood sweat and tears to fullfill their goals, and then once you did your part and gave your blood sweat and tears to support them (with some benefit to you too) and never kept their promises, wouldnt you have an axe to gring with that person.... Well in this case that person was America......
Fast forward to present day (3 decades later).... They have raised the younger generations to hate us, even though we are not neccessarily the same as we were then. Many of Islam see the difference between "COLD WAR AMERICA" and the America of today.. They are very different Americas in many ways. And they know for themselves that we should not be their enemy. However the radical Islam can never get over the hatred they have been raised on and will not rest untill we are wiped from the face of the earth in the name of The Laws of Islam and doing Allahs Justice. They have been raised to think that this is their purpose in life thus they would give their life to accomplish this...
At some point the people of earth need to agree that we will have our squabbles and have had our dissagreements and maybe a war or two but we must let the war end when the dust settles.. Its not about who was right back then and wha was wrong 2 generations ago. We all must live on this earth and not try to exterminate the other... The radical Islamic Terrorist will not rest until we are terminated and looking at the methods and means that they have used to get us thus far I am against allowing them to pass into our borders/states/cities/towns unquestioned... If your house had been robbed time and time again wouldnt you treat any trespasser like a potential robber when you caught them?
Do we and the rest of the world still hold Germans of today responsible for what occurred during WWII?? No we dont. Well Radical Islam is holding America of Today responsible for the actions of a handfull of Politicians and CIA agents during the cold war..
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concerned KD writes:
"At some point the people of earth need to agree that we will have our squabbles and have had our dissagreements and maybe a war or two but we must let the war end when the dust settles.. "
So why not take your own advice and let them build their Community Center with Mosque where they want to?? These folks here aren't the Militants - but if you alienate them enough - they might be......
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Well that would be great in a ideal world where they have forgiven what they see as our sins against Allah......BUT they havent and we are in a time and place where we cannot percieve whom of them is a terrorist.. Look at the Time Square Bomber and his support system currently in custody... How long have they lived here?? Would we have been able to decipher who is and who isnt the terrorists.. Yes this is going to continue to be an inherrent danger for generations to come, and i am not saying to not let them worship as they choose.. What I am saying is RIGHT ARE NOT ABSOLUTE!! And just because you have the right to worship Does NOT neccessarily give you the right to worship anywhere, there will be some places that are off limits.. Such as the spot where almost 3000 americans were murdered by radical muslims.. This should not be allowed, and if it is then it is equal to pissing on the graves of the fallen americans..
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were, in fact Muslims. Does no one remember that?
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None of the Oklahoma city bombers were practicing devout Catholics funded by a Theocracy government funded by the Catholic church. Your bias is showing, not theirs.
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You mean like Faux News, whose biggest shareholder outside of the Murdoch family is a Saudi?
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So they weren't Christian enough? And you analogy doesn't work because there is no unified Islamic body. And Saudi Arabia fell over themselves to help hunt down these criminals.
However, you are defending grouping all Muslims together because of the acts of a few, which is clearly short sighted and serves no purpose.
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I know of 168 people in Oklahoma City who would correct you if they were alive.
Oh, and next to the Oklahoma City bombing mermorial a church erected a tribute. Nobody cared cause it was a church and not a mosque though.
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Would we allow the japanese to raise a shinto shrine overlooking Pearl Harbor?? Or maybe some skinheads or KKK can set up shop next to the mosque or better yet next door to your childs elementary school.. Would you embrace it as an oportunity to teach tolerance and diversity??? What if they were actively preaching their beliefs in earshot of your kids?? This is a bad idea.. And will only succeed in creating a larger rift between muslims and non muslims.. You dont gain acceptance and understanding by shoving your ideals and beliefs down the throats of those whom have been deeply scorned by similar ideology. Another thought is are there any practicing religions out there other than Muslims that preaches intolerance for anyone that is non muslim... Does any other socially accepted religions preach intolerance of all non believers.. Or dictate they're own interepretation and punishment for breaking the law... The Qu"ran is viewed as the guidelines for living and not sinning against Allah. It also dictates what punishment is to be handed down to those who sin against Allah.. Example: Cut off the hand of a thief(its there).. When do we accept or allow a religion to circumvent our laws.. This will be the next hurdle with regards to Muslims and the acceptence to Islam in this country. They will want to be they're own governing force and not be subject to our laws since our laws judge and those who judge are not Allah and are not worthy of judging them. Where do we draw the line.. If we let them they will use religious beliefs as the wedge in our legal system. since it is a religious belief that we non believers cannot judge them they will use our constitution and separation of church and state against us.. Have we ever recognised a religion whose practices break our laws??? Will we allow it??? This is next...
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"An American flag flying beside a Shinto shrine on the freeway to Pearl Harbor! An incredible sight one can encounter only in America. And only in Hawaii could it happen at such breathtaking speed."
Hawaii’s Domestication of Shinto
http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=1437
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Pearl Harbor - bad analogy but only due to the passage of time. I've ridden the ferry to the Arizona Memorial and over half the people on board were of asian ancestry - most likely Japanese but I can only assume that. And yet we all got along, were respectful of each others wishes and each of us prayed for those lost on that sacred water without offending or harassig the other.
The greatest danger we face is uncertainty - the Muslim community tends to stay to themselves and not interact with those outside their culture, possibly due to custom or fear. Making them part of the melting pot and the passage of time would be the greatest thing we can hope for and strive to achieve.e
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He brought up the Shinto/Pearl Harbor Anaolgy there.....
If you can't keep up with what's going on here, then maybe you should take an afternoon nap.
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Veritas, no kidding really? My post wasn't aimed at you, it was aimed at pointing out the failure of using Pearl Harbor...geez grow some thicker skin if you think every comment is an attack on you....
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Anybody born out of Wedlock???
You and your ancestors aren't allowed to go to Church for ten - count 'em - ten Generations!! We don't care what the Constitution says!!!
Deuteronomy 23:2 (New International Version)
2 No one born of a forbidden marriage [a] nor any of his descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD, even down to the tenth generation.
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If you have then you should know that Deuteronomy and the rest of the Old Testament is based on Jewish law. If I was a Jew living before the birth of Christ then Jewish law would apply to me. But as a follower of Christ I am not under the law. The law will be used to judge non-believers in Christ. Christians live under the Grace of Christ, not under the law of Moses.
It never ceases to amaze me when liberals use Jewish law to try to argue with Christians. They always bring up these weird rules that God put into place for the Jews to show them that they cannot live a holy life and get into heaven by their own good works. But I am sorry to inform you that Jewish law doesn't apply to me or any Christian.
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Who'd a figured that.....
You should go seek the truth some time. I didn't think we were talking about putting a Muslim Community Center down in Jesusland below the Mason-Dixon Line
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Deriving from your posted quotes, take the text further and answer some questions one should ask themselves when reading this text.. Who will be the judge of whether one enters the assembly of the lord???..Why did Jesus give his life for us?? What role does Jesus play in ones ability to enter the assembly of god?? What does the book say about Judgement of others and how we should treat others.
Judges are not fellow worshipers of the book.. The Qu'ran teaches for those followers to enact judgement and persecution for sins against allah... By whose law? Not the law of the land but the law of the Qu'ran. And only the Qu'ran. If you would like to pick and choose exerpts from the bible to support your view at least do the book justice and complete the context in which it was written. You might want to read the rest of the book instead of cutting and pasting what you deem as supportive to your views.... Not what the bible was meant to be used for..
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Your bigotry and hatred of Jews and Christians shines through... again and again.
Its amazing you are so intellectually weak that one corrupt police chief, who happened to be a Republican, has made you unable to see anything but the far left side to every issue.
Sadly, you have allowed that person the power over you to turn you into a charicature incapable of intelligent research or debate.
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As a planning board member, none of this is really debatable. By law they’re allowed to build a mosque there. Do I think it’s a good idea, no. But can they legally do it. Yes. Let’s move on.
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before we move on. That's what's driving this whole 'controversy.'
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The freedom of association clause in the first amendment would equally protect a KKK center in Harlem. Would he say the same thing? Would any of you hypocrites?
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That is what he is saying. Legally-yes they can. Is it a good idea? sensitive? in any way wise?--NO, NO, NO. And the KKK is simply a hate group. I don't know exactly what the Muslim faith teaches (and guessing most of you haven't studied the religion so are only saying what you have heard) but we do know what those terrorists believed.
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You Repugs sure do like Red Herrings.
Pray to St. Blaise so you don't get a bone stuck in your throat.....
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Except that I'm a Democrat, not just a pile of Demon crap like you.
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You're a Democrat like Fox is 'News'
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No, you're a left wing fanatic communist political purger. Clearly you think a McGowan and Michaud supporting Democrat is too conservative and a secret Fox News follower.
Your insanity clearly sees black helicopters under every cloud and you out yourself as the far left fringe who would likely have enjoyed leading the communist assault on the students of Tienamen square back when you were a cop.
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The students were the left wing, while the military supported the right.
Have you no sense of power politics??
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that people have an issue with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Americans are a truly xenophobic and intolerant bunch. Land of the free? Hardly - more like land of the criminally stupid.
Anyone notice how the politicians from far away from New York are the ones bleating the loudest, while the mayor of New York, Michael Bloomberg, fully endorsed the building of the mosque.
The fact that you have teatard talebangelicals like Sarah Palin, Eric Cantor, Tim Pawlenty, Newt Gingrich, Diaper Dave Vitter, Rand Paul and John McInsane McCain opposing the mosque should give you a good indication of how weak, intolerant and stupid those opposed to mosque are.
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Your quick to defend the constitution unless its someone right to have gun or pray to a Christian God.
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Constitution of the United States, and I believe there is only one God, unlike your polytheistic beliefs.
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Might want to change your screen name from wide stance republican to narrow minded democrat...
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Might want to change your name to "Non-thinking Lemming"
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And I've know him for years!!
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To use the qwords froma game show and game//"you don't know Jack" about me other than what you can find in a public biography, because YOU made a choice not to be part of a family which includes your godchild...way to set such an uplifting positive example...
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If the Catholic Church was building a new Church in South Manhattan would anyone be asking where they got the money. Of course not.
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Obviously the vatican and raised contributions from worshipers... WHats the muslim equivalent to the vatican???
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are there any Catholic fanatics trying to bomb skyscrapers..backed by an army?
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Catholic Fanatics - with many Armies - invaded Muslim Lands.
They were called the 'Crusades'
Faux Noise hasn't told you about that???
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Another freakin' office building it appears......
How appropriate.
A Temple to the God of High Finance and Insurance Companies.....
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The issue of the Mosque is part of the overall Republican strategy to racially and religiously divide America in hopes the hatred they engender will prevent us from identifying their real goal which is to get another chance to lot the federal treasury and destroy te US economy.
SB 1070 - paint latinos as drug crazed pushers murdering the poor civilians of Arizona with machine guns (Where is Willie Horton when you need him. Or in context Willie Rodrigues.)
Portray all Muslims are salavating radicals bent on killing every American they can and forcing Sharia law down our throats (I assume latinos are not included because by then we will have forced them all including US Citizens back to Mexico or at least those we haven't killed.).
Then there are blacks; Vote cheats; ACORN (which has been cleared of any wrong doing); welfare cheats. If you're black, get back. Oh! We have a black President. Well that can't be, no black anything can be President. He must have cheated. Check his Birth Certificate, they have, he didn't, but keep lying about it.
Republican strategy can be summed up simply - Make white people fear minorities, let their fear grow into hatred of minorities, help them vote their fear.
Racist, of course the Republicans aren't racist nor are the Tea Partiers. Its just good policy to put your foot on the neck of a minority.
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Damn, first I agree with you on your earlier post, then you have to post this crap. Where's your proof, Mr. Albrecht? Either post the links or retract this post, please.
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There are many things that people have a right to do in this country, but that does not mean that it should be done. Look at the office of the president. When Bush was president it was ok to mock him, compare him to Hitler. Now that Obama is president it is not ok to do those things. But the people still have the right to do them and when someone makes remarks about Obama that are not to their liking, they are called a racist. The same can be said about the building of the mosque. Tolerance and respect goes both ways my friends.
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Teabaggers haven't had any problem comparing Obama to Hitler.....
So what/where's your beef???
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Gotta hand it to Obama--he is being of great help to the Republicans...
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When they act like Nazis.....
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Why ohhh WHY for me this was the last straw ! I had a vision of an understanding and healed America ! With Obama I heard all about change and Hope and as a non Democrat I did believe ! And what he has delivered has been far SHORT of what we all expected !!! Instead of "Weighing in " on this matter he should have kept his mouth shut !! But he did not and to prove it he back tracked ! Under no circumstance should that mosque be allowed to,be built , thepeople will NEVER say where the money comes from to build it ...why? It is a slap in the face to Muslims that are peaceful and live here and do good !!! Do we have to wait until the radicals are bombing our country to be called to arms ???? No other group of people have come to America and made demands on the USA like these are doing ,Sharea Law will not tolerate an open forum of this type ! Just Google what Islam is about and what they think of us thats all I need to know ! Come to America become American or stay out ! Do you think China would put up with this type of crap???......I doubt it Maybe the Mosque should be built there !
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You apparently love "Fox Noise Sharia Law" so much more than our own United States Constitution.
Otherwise you wouldn't be pizzin' and moaning that the sky is falling in lower Manhatten.
Lucky for you the Native Americans let you put churches near on all their sacred lands. Now do you ever practice your Religion??
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No segment of any Christian or Jewish religion ever sent a jet airliner full of passengers crashing into a NYC skyscraper.
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Veritas...No one questions the right to build that mosque. It isn't about that and I know you know that. But, you are also astute enough to know what the consequences of building a mosque in that location will entail. It won't be pretty will it?
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Joe Public say it should never be built. If you listen to Fox News and the Republicans it should never be built.
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But we got over it.
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So, it's all warm milk and cookies now, eh? All you gotta do is read Pitts to realize nothing's really changed, as long as you have people like him, Rangle, Jackson and Waters to continually keep fanning the embers of racial discord.
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I grew up in the Little Rock Schools. I was in Memphis the day MLK got killed. I've seen the Klan march down Main St. I've been through race riots and bomb threats at school.
Do you actually know anything about "sending Colored Kids to White schools"?
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I remember "Blacks Only" and "Whites Only" in Jonesboro, Ark.
But that was a few years earlier than what you're quoting.
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"colored kids"...and yet its us who are the racists? wow what a country...nice choice of words...
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The colored kids didnt worship "DEATH TO THE INFIDEL" Who is the infidel they speak of??? HMMMM????
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There are way to many unanswered questions regarding the construction of this mosque. Where is the $100 million coming from? Why, when it is obvious that this project strikes a raw nerve with many, including the families and friends of those who died on 9/11, are these people so adamant about building there? This mosque will heal nothing, and cause further distrust and animosity between Muslims and non-Muslims. A real jesture of understanding would simply be to locate the mosque in a more palatable place. We'll see.
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But you're not going to get them from Fox or Rush.
Have you researched the other side of the issue yet?
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Absolutely nothing to contribute yourself, so you attack other messengers. Go back below decks, swabbie.
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And you're attacking me because I asked him if he researched the issue?? BS!
There are "Question/Answer" sites which do answer many of his questions. And he can go find them. Unless he's unable to play with the Big Kids.
And you don't have enough Pay-Grade to order me below....
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Nothing you'de recognize as a 'Contribution' - but that speaks volumes more about you than it does me.
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Westboro Baptists the group that protests at soldiers funerals, and "fat" Pat Robertson can have his private jets and diamond mines.
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Yeah, but we're not allowed to sing the National Anthem at the Lincoln Memorial
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The Westboro protesters are required to maintain an acceptable and appropriate distance as to not disturb the mourners. They allowed to protest as long as these requirements is maintained. There are hundreds of existing mosques in NYC. The building in question was damaged by the landing gear from one of the planes that used used as a missile in an extremely successful attempt to kill as many Americans and destroy what is, or was, viewed as a shinning symbol of America's global financial power. This is plan and simple a request to respect those who lost life and that area is considered hallowed ground and simply to not build ANOTHER mosque in that area of NYC.
Would it be appropriate to have a to serve pulled pork sandwiches next door to/or on a food cart outside the mosque/cultural center? Out of respect for the Muslim faith, NO! Does RESPECT only go one way?
As President Obama said "we will extend our hand if your will unclench your fist" during his speech to the Muslim world. I think the fist has been unclenched enough to extend at least one of the fingers.
xyz... every single time you post there is at least one name call or slanderous comment. Typical.
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maineiacs9 was wrong about the westboro wacko's and he's wrong about the number of mosques in NYC (guess he doesn't have google). 3 mosques exist in NYC not hundreds and 7 more are near NYC. Assuming 1000 worshippers per mosgue seems like a 4th mosque might be needed.
But Maineiacs9 and the President are right on this. Constitutionally they are doing nothing wrong. Legally they are doing nothing wrong. But they should be sensitive to the situation as long as moving the mosque causes them no significant harm. I doubt that there is a lot of free locations that can be purchased at a reasonable price in Southern Manhattan.
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I agree with you completely, Mr. Albrecht. Unfortunately, many people posting here are being far too radical (for the liberal set) or far too reactionary (for the conservative set). I firmly believe that the Moslems seeking to build this Mosque are showing a great callous disregard for many people, especially those related to the victims of 9-11. Hasn't this nation shown enough empathy for the Moslems already? Can't they reciprocate? If they can't, they don't belong here (I just KNOW that comment will set off tron and so-called Veritas, among others). Our country is all about freedom, but you can't yell "Fire!" in a crowded theatre. Building this Mosque is too much like yelling "Fire", and you can already see the result.
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On second thought, please stay there and spare the outside world your attention. NYC may have only 3 "official"mosques you find listed in your google search but having spent a fair amount of time in NYC including in the World Trade Center before and after the bombing, I can personally attest to the fact there are hundreds of "unofficial" storefront and "home" mosques which makes maineiacs9 vary much correct. Unlike Catholics who in the United States worship in large obvious Catholic facilities moslems gather in every knook and cranny they can find since they gather to face east some five or more times a day they don't want to travel far to a large facility, to this end they convert store fronts, apartments and homes into mosques that you will not find on your google search. I would suggest you get out from behind your computer and see what is really out there but as I said, I fear for those you would encounter.
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.mainiacs9 - You're wrong on Westboro protest law.
Missouri passed two laws- The first, banned “picketing or other protest activities in front of or about any location at which a funeral is held.”
Anticipating that might be overturned, they also passed a second, 'fall-back" law, which prohibited "funeral protests within 300 feet of a funeral.."
Both laws were struck down by Chief US District Judge Fernando Gaitan who said the state statute violated free speech protections guaranteed in the First Amendment by imposing excessive restrictions on the ability to conduct protests outside funerals. The judge, who is based in Kansas City, Mo, also ruled that the controversial protests did not amount to “fighting words,” which are unprotected by the Constitution and can be banned.
He had earlier upheld the laws, but the Eighth US Circuit Court of Appeals overturned Gaitan’s finding.
See - http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2010/0817/Antigay-church-can-protes...
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I didn't vote for Obama, I think he is a useless meatstick but that being said it is a free country and I totally agree with what he said.
It is 2 NY city blocks (not our small puny small town blocks) away to begin with.
In the United States if a Satanic Cult wanted to open a place a worship it is ok, it is a free country. In a country that tolerated the KKK and other cults and sects as well as every major and minor religion in the world I am kind of disturbed at the behavior of people wanting this religious mosque banned.
it should not matter if the people building it wanted the USA in ruins and are building it just for spite. they have that right in this country as stupid and mornic as their views are it should be accepted as what the USA is all about to begin with.
The Unites States was founded on freedom of religion without ridicule or persecution for it.
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No one is telling them they can't build that mosque. What people are doing is appealing to their sense of sensitivity. If they show none......
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These people had absolutly nothing to do with the bombing - and to ask them not to build the Community Center (with Mosque) implies that they did.
Guilt by Association??
Bull-Pucky!!!
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The imam in charge of building the mosque/community center, call it what you will, said on 60 Minutes once, that America was the cause of the atrocities waged against it on 9/11 because of how it has treated muslims in the past. The Americans brought on themselves and that Bin Laden was "made in U.S.A." Doesn't sound very unsympathetic to the terrorist cause to me. Muslims who do not speak out against terrorism, condone it with their silence.
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Veritas, where's your proof that these people had nothing to do with the bombing? Is it not possible that someone within that cluster could have been funneling money to be used to supprt training of terrorists? I always say trace the money....you need to look at where the funding will come from to build this mosque....
As to Obama....two step time....he was for it before he was against it, and he's not really against it, he just hopes to change his mind...
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One doesn't prove "Negatives"
Husson on over and hit the books, Lad.....
It's your burden of proof that they were associated with the bombing.
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My Husson education also taught me to question statements made that cannot be proven (like yours for example)...you made the statement that none of them were associated, my question was simply to ask how you could make such a statement as we have no way on knowing. One COULD prove a negative if the research was done on everyone involved, something our government probably has secretly done but cannot admit, lets face it, they watch the wire transfers from Muslim stores to their families overseas.
You made the statement, you own the burden of proof LAD!
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In America - Innocence need not be proven.
You still back in the USSR, Commisar???
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Ahh, but you forget about the IRS, V...
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... are somewhat shorter than elsewhere in the city, following the original cow paths. I know because I used to work in the area, spitting distance from the proposed site. But your point is taken. It's still a free country - sort of.
If and when they start building the mosque, it being NYC, all that labor will be performed by union workers. That is, it will take far longer and cost far more than the planners envision, what with all the "sick outs" and "slow downs". If this idiocy gets farther down the road, I'll bet the imam will join Our Dear Leader in questioning the wisdom of the enterprise.
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not build this mosque, how far away would be acceptable to you? Any place in America?
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Get it out of Manhattan; there's already a mosque there. If they build this thing, which they won't, it won't last six months.
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That should be close enough that even you would understand what your new masters expect of you. The imam would, I'm sure, help you find east and kneel five times a day. Most Muslims show compassion for the less fortunate.
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famous two blocks, from a Synagogue, Catholic Church and several Protestant churches. A Mosque wouldn't phase me at all. I'm not afraid of diversity, why are you?
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This has absolutely nothing to do with diversity; don't even go there. This is about building a mosque near hallowed ground. If that's o.k., how about opening a Satrialle's Pork Store next to a mosque in Dearborn? How about a strip club next to a mosque in Mecca. Get my drift?
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.If it's 'Hallowed Ground...."
If it's 'Hallowed Ground...."
Then why are they constructing an office building there????
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Would the mosque occupants tolerate a Christmas Nativity scene in front of the building next door at Christmas time?
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.It absolutely has EVERYTHING to do
about diversity. You're afraid of it, I embrace it. I believe in living the American ideal, not just giving lip service to it, like you. If you want to hold a KKK meeting next door, I would defend that also. Get it yet?
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Cool; go ahead and set up the meeting. Make sure there are plenty of rubber sheets available for the bed wetters.
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Now thats funny...here's a guy who calls us all clansman, racist, bigots and now professes to be about diversity..must be some pretty good "diverse" folks you hang with....diverse - as long as they agree with you...
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.so, since I cannot tolerate people like you, bigots and racists,
I cannot be for diversity? What a screwed up mind you have.
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The parrot sez, "Can't we all just get along?"
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Thank you for making my point for me. Most people who believe in diversity are tolerant of all points of views and respect even those they might disagree with. You beleive in neither diversity or tlerance and show little respect for those who might disagree with you.
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If its about diversity , why dont you ask a muslim what they believe with regards to non muslims and how open they are to diversity in they're worship and practices... DO they recognize other religions as legitimate beliefs ?? or do they denounce anything that is not muslim????
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on what you or Muslims think. I prefer to go by what's right and what the Consitutition of the United States demands.
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