Panelists lambaste state about wind power studies

RUMFORD — Panelists at a wind energy forum Wednesday night lambasted the state for not conducting more studies on the potential impact of wind farms and Dr. Dora Ann Mills, the state's chief medical officer, for not pursuing possible health issues related to them.

Eileen M. Adams/Sun Journal

Rumford resident David Glover looks over some of the posters depicting wind turbines, data about turbines killing birds, and other information in the corridor of Mountain Valley High School Wednesday night prior to the beginning of a three-hour forum on wind power.

The panelists warned that wind energy would be both more expensive and result in greater pollution.

About 50 people turned out for the decidedly one-sided presentation on potential wind farm development in Rumford and other locations in Western Maine.

The forum, sponsored by the River Valley Wind Education Committee, was held about a month before Rumford and Dixfield voters will decide whether to adopt wind energy ordinances.

Panelist J Dwight, an economist from Wilton and one of the four panelists, said using electricity generated from wind turbines would likely double utility bills by 2020.

“We have enough power already,” he said.

He said later during the forum that First Wind LLC of  Boston, Mass., which proposes constructing about a dozen turbines on Black Mountain and an adjacent mountain, is financially bankrupt.

“This is a company that should be scrutinized,” he said.

Dr. Albert Aniel, a local doctor, said Mills has not had a study conducted on the effects of the Mars Hill wind farm on residents there.

“The Department of Health and Human Services is not interested,” he said.

Also speaking was Robert Rand, a sound engineer from Brunswick who displayed a series of graphs showing how sound levels from turbines could affect people living at various distances from a turbine. He also played a recording of two turbines he said was made one mile from the turbines. He was eventually asked to turn off the sound when Rumford wind ordinance committee member Len Greaney asked whether people in the Mountain Valley High School auditorium would have a problem with such noise.

Rand said he has conducted studies or found studies that show how people can become highly annoyed when sounds reach 45 decibels, which is the level sanctioned by the state for nighttime sounds. During the day, the permitted level rises to 55 decibels.

Rumford resident Dan Richard asked whether it was safe to say that the panel is against wind power in general.

“This panel is not in favor of wind,” Dwight said.

Richard said about 600,000 gallons of fuel oil are used each day at the Cousins Island electrical plant.

“And look how many trucks roll in there each day,” he said.

Another man asked whether Rand had measured the level of noise coming from the NewPage mill in Rumford.

Rand said that although he has not measured it, any noise coming from mills tends to be steady, and not variable as he said wind turbines produce.

Karen Pease, a Realtor from Highland Plantation, where another wind farm is proposed, also spoke as part of the panel.

She said turbine construction would decrease the value of homes sited within two miles.

She said a study conducted in Illinois suggested that wind farm developers should guarantee property values, and turbines should be shut down if the noise level goes beyond 10 decibels above ambient sound.

Both Dixfield and Rumford residents will vote on their respective proposed wind turbine ordinances on Nov. 2.

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Jack Kaubris's picture

Well put, Cranky Yankee

You have made some very well thought out points, Cranky. Wind energy needs to be in the mix, along with hydro, solar, geothermal, oil/gas, etc. I would like the anti-wind experts to comment on the noise levels at the oil refineries and coal mines that they appear to be promoting (or where exactly does the energy they use come from - wood stoves?) How about the transportation costs of oil/gas/coal? Any environmental impacts there? How about the security risks of depending on Mideast oil or the cost of spending America's treasure in protecting the oil supply in countries run by friendly dictators(Saudi Arabia, etc.). The cost of human lives in sending our sons and daughters in the military to protect Big Oil's supply? I have also seen some of Europe's (eastern France) wind turbines..and have spoken to people who live near/among these 'industrial' windmills. I did not hear of nor see any of the doomsday scenarios that some of the these 'experts' seem to be convinced will be happening if some wind turbines go up around here. You would think that Mars Hill was a toxic waste(see BP and the Gulf of Mexico) dump the way that it is portrayed by these 'experts'. I would love for the panel to visit a strip-mined 'industrial' coal mine or oil refinery and come back and speak to us of how that coal mine or refinery would be preferable to wind turbines on the surrounding mtn tops. Wind power will not replace all carbon burning/producing plants. As buzzardbob says, wind power alone is not the answer, but it sure as hell beats some of the alternatives.

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University of Maine students are teaching Mr. LePage the engineering, economics and alternatives to wind power. september 29 issue

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Dr. Mills is a "Bureauocratic Hack"

Dr. Dora Mils is incapable of conducting a a scientific medical study, but she does know the etiology of her paycheck very well.
She would never do anything that would jeopardize her positon , let alone conduct a study for the citizens of this state.
She should be "retired" STAT when the new governor comes to town.
She is part of the "incestuous " and self-serving government establishment presently in power here. This "regime's" time is up however.
Her job prognosis is most definitely, "terminal".

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mars hill

We drove to Mars Hill last week and 50 miles away the big pin cushion was visible.
Main street had a few shops open but many were boarded up and closed for business.
Friends in the area said the animals have left there homes on the hill and moved down river. Certainly the tall towers, visible for miles, are not conducive to that wild Maine feeling.
The power from these 28 mills goes to Canada. Does Maine get the Kudos as energy credit in the big race for wind as our alternative energy?
Alternative, green energy, renewables, I guess, are all around us. Our choice is how labor intensive do we want it.
I feel like a third worlder up here, on the mountain, moving fire wood almost every day.
I am hoping an idea for solar or wind power transferring energy directly to an element,( by passing the batterries), will help heat my home in winters to come.
A choice was made 10 years ago when we decided mountain living was what we wanted.
We bought solar panels, a small windmill and some batteries and pugged in. It took a few months of adjusting to shutting down any electrical apparatus not in use. We charged batteries with a generator alot the first years. Now, after buying additional solar panels each year, four remote homes function with necessities like internet, tv, lights and fans. (even air conditioning on hot, sunny days at peak heat)
The ridge we live on does not have electricity delivered. In fact, nothing is delivered. We plow our own road and haul in gas. Despite no niceties, 10 cabins have been built and more planned. The development of this ridge is geared off the grid.
People of Garland Pond live off the grid. As technology advances the quieter the pond is.
Generators are replaced with solar panels. It takes time but there are alternative energies all around us; one solar panel at a time eventually makes an array.
I wish the governor could count all these individual solar panels as part of his goal in alternative energy.

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Wind Industry

This is not the first time that wind industry and other more pro-wind speakers have been invited. As Karen said, they won't put themselves in a situation where they will have to debate other knowledgeable people. If they are so certain of their facts, then why not show up? I think more pro-wind residents would attend the meetings if there were pro-wind panelists and then you'd really have the chance for a debate and a better representation of concerned citizens, as well.

CommonSense, if you know how to make that happen, then have at it rather than complaining about it. My guess is you fear the wind industry folks will make fools out of themselves or that you will be proven wrong. Otherwise, why haven't you worked to help in this matter?

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As karen said not for DEBATE

As Karen said, this is NOT an issue for a debate. We don't need a DEBATE. We don't need the anti-winds screaming down the wind power developers who have too much class and professionalism to do anything but sit quietly and with the patience of Job. I have been to some meetings where representatives of First Wind or Record Hill have been present and anti-wind activists have showed up. The company representatives wait to answer questions asked of them calmly and directly without threat, intimidation, innuendo, avasion or rhetoric. You ask, they give you the short, simple and direct answer. It drives the anti's up the wall. I don't want to hear First Wind, Record Hill or any other developer debating you. I want to hear from a panel of independent scientists, experts in the fields in which they are going to speak, i.e. industrial sound person speaks to sound issue. Is that so very hard to understand?

If I could figure out how to get anti-wind people to stop breaking the law and threatening government officials into not doing their jobs, or I could get the govenment officials to stand up to them, prosecute while doing their job as ordered by their constituents and bring in the experts we would have our panels. The solutioon I see starts with the Nov electin and in Rumford will continue through the year into the June election if not before in recall elections. We will probably be voting ignorant on an ordinance in Rumford which will leave us with either no ordinance to protect us at all or a bad ordinance that will have catastrophic economic consequences for the forciable future and leave us back peddling. Right now, in Rumford, I can only see it ending badly. But, ya never know, tomorrow there could be an announcement that the Town Manager, Selectmen or someone else has organized the impartial scientific educational panal we need and we are going to have our meeting with a full house peolple standing in the aisle and the back overflowing into the halls and cafeteria. I can keep dreaming.

 's picture

Sorry, one more thing

I meant to mention. You state, "The company representatives wait to answer questions asked of them calmly and directly without threat, intimidation, innuendo, avasion or rhetoric." This is not my experience with Patriot Renewables who have interests in Woodstock, Dixfield, and Carthage. I have not attended a First Wind meeting and so cannot comment on their behavior. I think you gathered that I am not in favor of industrial wind. But I really did have hope that when I attended a Carthage meeting held by PR that I would get some answers. I was warned I wouldn't, but I just couldn't believe that they could be that that dismissive. Well, they were. Andy Novey ran most of the meeting and his standard replies were as follows: "It's in the computer models," "It's proprietary," and "Next question." Lots of smirking, lots of sighs, and lots of looking down at the little people. I feel like I sound like I'm exaggerating but I really am not. If the information could not be found in his PowerPoint presentation, then you were not going to get a response. It was depressing. But when the majority of folks are not doing their own research--their own follow-up to the questions they had but did not receive answers to--then you ARE left with an uneducated bunch of people going off to the voting booths. So, we felt like PR had their one-sided presentation where they did not answer most of the concerns and so why shouldn't there be a forum where folks can get the other side of the story? We can't force PR to answer questions and we can't force them to provide experts in the field at their expense. Can Rumford citizens or Carthage or Dixfield force it? I don't know. I think others have tried and failed.

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I feel your pain on that liasan

I haven't been to anything involving Patriot. Sounds like it would be very frustrating. Before I am going to worry about a specific project though I think I need to have basic general information and understanding. I also think we need rules that cover ALL business and industry not just wind development specifically. If we had noise rules period it would be better than trying to have noise rules just for wind or just for logging or just something else. I also think we need to be thinking about sight rules that we apply to everything not just discriminate against wind. I mean if it is bad to have wind turbines on the mountains with the access roads, the blasting, the herb sides and the eye sore doesn't the same apply to cellphone towers and logging? They do the same things, actually in logging its worse since they are dragging stuff around and constantly chewing up the ground so it washes away. And logging really makes a mess of the wildlife habitat.

Rumford has a sizable economic development budget that is undesignated. Whenever something comes up, remember the $6000 "invested" in Babe the Blue Ox last year, that that selectmen what to do they just tap into it. Seeing as however you slice it, wind turbine development or an ordiance package to cover all development, activity, homes, business, and industry, it is economic development we are talking about. Rumford has a big auditorium and that account, they could bring in a quality panel and everyone in the region could benefit. Unfortunately after being threatened they probably wont. Like you, I am going to try and stay positive and keep on hoping.

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There's no excuse to be ignorant

You can educate yourself anytime you want. The information is out there. One only has to take the time to study all sides of this issue and it is time-consuming. I understand your desire to have a panel of professionals that includes experts who are not from the wind companies, however, my guess is they cost money and that those trying to put on these forums don't have a budget. I believe there have been informational meetings in the River Valley that included experts from the state (names escape me, maybe someone on here can help me). Public meetings are required for all of these permit applications and at those you will find representatives from state agencies such as DEP and IFW, though I'm not sure how "free" they are to speak their minds. Regardless of what you think of Robert Rand, he is a qualified sound engineer and he has studied these sites in Maine extensively. If you don't like a side business he has or whatever, I don't see how that impacts his qualifications. I think it has more to do with your not liking the data as it does not support your own agenda.

But don't tell me that everyone in Rumford must remain ignorant due to a lack of access to information. Do your own research, print out studies from what you find, and distribute it. Document your sources and hand it in anonymously if you must. This is something you spend a lot of time thinking about, so I suggest you gather your data and see if you can find any (not created by wind companies or their investors) that supports industrial wind in Maine. There's nothing stopping you.

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cranky yankee brilliant coverage of all options

This is great coverage of all the options and points out the known advantages and disadvantages of the old technology, the newer technology we have some expience with and the newest for our area. I appreciate your comments and that you took the time on your trip to visit facilities in Europe and share with us a realistic first hand assessment devoid of the doomsdayism. I like how very well thought out this is. You have obviously done your homework.

What is diplorable is the number of disagrees. Goes to show who and what we are dealing with and it isn't people looking into things and thinking them through for their advantages and disadvantages to the community.

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It is not someone elses call to determine what is right for me or my community. It is right for me and my community to make those determinations. I am angry that others are attempting to impose their will upon me and mine for whatever reason they may have and I have very solid fact based evidence that it is not because it is in my best interest or that they know better. I am frustrated by their obstruction of my efforts to obtain education on the advantages and disadvantages of wind power from appropriate unbiased scientists. I am angry that they threatened my Town Manager and Selectmen to get them to force me to vote on an ordinance without being a properly informed voter. I am angry that my Town Manager and Selectmen, to the best of my knowledge, have not done what they should have immediately after being threatened, notifiied law enforcement and proceeded to prosecute these thugs.

 's picture

Neutral, SCIENCE panels PLEASE

Bob, Have you attended any of the state meetings? I have and can assure you that the consultants did not base the sound recommendations on city data. In fact, if you look at the state model ordinance, which is intended to be used as a model and modified by each community, has multiple sound specifications for varying conditions ranging from quiet rural landscape to the noise busy Portland industrial areas where salvage metal is processed. The scientists who worked on the model where all hired for being independent consultants who would do their work isolated from the politics or pressures from industry and stick to the science. Rand is so knowledgeable he thinks mill noise is stable and consistant.

Flicker was another issue that the state recognized that inhouse people were not qualified to work with and they went outside, again to scientists who worked isolated from the politics and industry in a pure science mode. My understanding is that the 30 hours per year is based on the amount of naturally occuring flicker. I had not thought of this until I heard a presentation by Andy Fisk explaining how the model ordinance was developed and answering questions on working with it. After listening to Mr. Fisk I realized we do experience significant flicker in the winter months when the sun never goes far from the hoizon. Flicker is far worse in rural areas with lots of trees than in the city where there are no trees to be blowing back and forth across the sun to create the flicker. I also know I have flicker in my house from all my ceiling fans and that doesn't bother me, saves on heating and cooling though which makes me smile at the end of the month when the power and oil bills come due.

I would love to have a panel of these scientists come and explain their research. I would like for them to give me the science and the facts and let me decide what is right for me, my family, my business, and my community. I don't want to be threatened, intimidated, warned, told the sky will fall just because the panel member or the pannel as a whole says it will. I am a reasonable person as are the vast majority of the people of this state. We are capable of rational, intelligent thought given the facts and opportunity. We just are not being given either facts or opportunity, we are being treated as if we are stupid sheep expected to follow because a few with one "agenda" scream at us long enough, loud enough and threateningly enough drowning out everything else.


Wind companies speak

First, Dr. Aniel may have called Rumford "cancer valley". What I remember is Dr. Martin called it cancer valley. I also remember a "preliminary" study was done that showed an epidemic of cancer in the Rumford Valley. Not to surprisingly the sample was declared too small so the study was expanded to include up-wind towns like Andover and miraculously cancer all but disappeared. That is not to suggest that Dr. Aniel is credible. He isn't. But he should be listened to and his ideas analyzed with a critical eye.
Second, to Commonsense a "special interest" is anyone he disagrees with. To me a special interest is one that will financially gain by lobbying for some governmental action. That fits First Wind not private citizens. Private citizens are protecting their property rights.
Third, when someone proposes a significant change like building a new industrial plant, they are responsible to prove that either no harm will be done or that the affected people are compensated for the harm done. We have heard nothing from First Wind and others. They haven't participated in meetings. They haven't offered any answers. They have not shown that their actions are safe. Only vague claims of wonderful tax cuts (bribes) cross their lips and even less specific "its only noise".
Until we have scientifically valid answers and proof that these industrial wind farms are perfectly safe, the only sane vote is NO on November 2nd.

 's picture

We should question every business and every industry claim.

Mr. Albrecht, You would be perfectly within your right and absolutely wise to question anything anyone from any business or industry said that wanted to bring a business or industry in. I have never been told anything by one of the wind power developers or their employees and I was not one of the lucky ones to be polled. I would have like to have heard for my self the questions and I would have had to say I could not make an informed decision at this time. They have a motive to tell you what they tell you, they want to bring their business or industry in and get to work. Does it mean they are lying? Not necessarily. But you are right to be reluctant to just accept what they say as the gospel without checking the facts. Wind Power is a major industry moving into many locations throughout the state with large facilities proposed. That is why we need real science people, people who are trained and knowledgable in the fields that are of concern, like sound for example. It does not have to be specifically detailed knowledge on every aspect of wind power but industrial sound would be a very good start. The people we need are experts who are independent of the wind power industry and with no ax to grind or alterior motive other than perhaps getting paid for time and travel to be our consultants, representing us and our best interests. We haven't had that yet. At the rate things are going Rumford voters like the voters in so many communities, will go to the polls without it despite having a Wind Power Education Committee seated for 11 months! Mr. Albrecht I am absolutely in agreement with you on not accepting what wind power developers tell us without question.

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Some minor points

As one of the panelists a the forum last night, I would like to add/correct a couple of points Ms. Adams made. I live in Lexington Township, not Highland Plantation. Independence Wind has a proposal for a grid-scale wind energy plant for Highland Plantation, the community which is adjacent to Lexington, and I did mention that project last night, as it ios the one I am most familiar with. In the last month, however, Iberdrola has submitted an application to LURC to put met towers in Lexington and Concord.

And I did not say that property values would decrease, I quoted a comprehensive report by McCann Appraisal Services which studied the effects of wind developments on homes within two miles. His conclusion was that property values drop by 25-40%, with some total losses within the 'footprint' of a development. In Maine, we do not currently have comparable sales data to make that conclusion, yet, so we are relying on the expertise of others across the country to help us in our decision-making process.

The forum was only 'decidedly one-sided' because wind developers chose not to attend. I know for a fact that Angus King was personally called and invited, and First Wind and Patriot Renwables were also asked to come and present their 'sides' of the issue. There were also articles in newspapers inviting the wind industry to attend. It was a wonderful opportunity for some open and honest conversation, and wind developers who wish to become part of those communities did them a disservice by brushing off the opportunity to educate residents. Over the past year, I have discovered that the industry does not like to attend any meeting where they aren't in charge. When they quote a 'fact' and are asked to prove it... they can't. And when they are asked if they will put their promises in writing... they won't.

In regards to the Counsins Island reference... that plant is only used to supplement our electrical needs on a half-dozen days a year when New England is at peak usage, such as during an extended heat wave. I also believe the oil is piped to the plant, not trucked in.

I counted 69 in attendance, excluding the panelists.

Karen Pease
Lexington Twp., ME

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Eileen you are extremely kind and professional

Eileen, you are extremely kind and bent over double here in your attempt to report this evenings, I too will be generous and use your words, "decidedly one-sided presentation on potential wind farm development in Rumford and other locations in Western Maine," while valiantly struggling to retain your professional integrity. In all sincerity, I mean no sarcasm, you are owed a bonus for your most professional work covering this circus.

Quite a number of Rumford Citizens, the current Board of Selectmen not withstanding, have been begging for education as to the advantages and disadvanges of commercial wind farm development. We voted in June 751 to 364 in favor of such development for our community. Our Selectmen appointed a "Wind Power Education Committee" to provide the education being demanded by the citizenry to make preparation for the eventual development more than nine long months ago. WE ARE STILL WAITING!

Over the past few days I have had an ongoing dialogue with Karen Pease, Ant-wind Ballot Question Meets Resistance In that dialogue I expressed my expectations that this evenings "presentation" would be exactly as it was. I expressed my desire for a presentation of appropriate speakers qualified in the fields that they would be addressing and I stated that this panel was not constituted of any such participants. Dispite Karen's insistance that I was wrong, her deperate pleas that I attend, and repeated assurances that despite all evidence to the contrary, that what would take place would be professional speakers presenting information in areas that they were both knowledgeable and qualified in with good scientific support, her personal promise I would receive the solid education I saw desired, I was abismally disappointed to sit amongst some 50 Rumford Area citizens wasting another evening listening to the rantings of a small special interest group with a "personal agenda," obvious axes to grind, and no science or reason to back them up getting their five minutes of fame.

Karen, every last statement I made in my dialogue with you was proven correct this evening. Sitting in that hall this evening, there can be no doubt amoung those 50 witnesses of the interest of the Aniels in raising a the spector of "health concerns" in respect to wind power. "Dr. Albert Aniel, a local doctor, said Mills has not had a study conducted on the effects of the Mars Hill wind farm on residents there." “The Department of Health and Human Services is not interested,” he said. This is exactly the same as we heard as he labeled the River Valley "Cancer Valley" and charged the mill with killing us all two decades ago and he was wrong then and he is wrong now. He does not take the time, he does not bother to base his assumptions, his accusations, his assignations in science or in fact and we the people of the River Valley suffer the stigma and economic consequences of it all the while so many keep marching to his office and stuffing his pockets.

How many Rumford residents would say Mr. Rand is clueless in his statement, "that although he has not measured it, any noise coming from mills tends to be steady, and not variable?" Anyone spending 5 minutes in Rumford is very well aware there is nothing "steady" about the noise coming from the mill, it is a very safe bet Mr. Rand's "agenda" was not based on any valid information on wind turbines anymore than his proclaimations on the noise from mills has any validity. His objection is based on personal bias agianst wind power development of an undetermined origin.

I am sure that Realtor Karen Pease and all other Realtors would be delighted to have Wind Power Farms guarantee the market value of all properties in the area of their facilities. I am sure they would be delighted to have paper mills, logging operations, casinos, and every other industry, business or developer do the same. With such "guarantees" what realtor would have to work for a living? They could blame every economic down turn, every lower priced sale on the garantor with the deepest, closest pockets.

Karen confessed in our previous dialogue that there is not a single property for sale in the so called effected area of the Mars Hill project. Does that not strike anyone as odd? If living conditions are so intolerable that I could not sleep, or eat; my health were being so adversely effected, my family, my children at risk, I would have a foresale sign in front of my house and have my bags packed. Karen says, there have been no sales either. It would seem everyone in Mars Hill is very happy to stay right where they are.

Recently there was a gentleman from Vinal Haven who made the claim to the newspaper that the wind turbines that greatly reduced the cost of electricity to his home and made his power more reliable had distroyed his property value. A acquantaince of mine from Rockland called this man and asked about purchasing his property. She was told it was NOT FOR SALE. Not for sale at pre-wind turbine construction fair market value. Not for sale at pre-economic downturn fair market value. Not for sale at any price. When asked if it is not for sale and he would not entertain an offer at even pre-down turn price on what he based his claim that the turbines had distroyed his property value, she was told, he could not borrow as much from the bank as before the turbines! He hadn't tried to borrow, but had been told by some realtor his house had lost equity! I wonder who that realtor was?

I would strongly suggest that Mr. Wants to be an Economist J Dwight make an appointment with the University of Maine to go back to school. Cap and Trade is going to put the cost of electricity through the roof when it goes into effect and it will be the existing oil, coal and gas power generator plants that reap the harvest. I've explained this in a number of posts previously so I will not take up the space repeating it here. Those who missed it can look back through my history. I also recommend Timothy P. Carney's, Obamanomics: How Barack Obama Is Bankrupting You and Enriching His Wall Street Friends, Corporate Lobbyists, and Union Bosses which explains this and a lot of other government created economic crisis that are in store for Americans just around the corner.

In closing, Karen, you and your panel lived up to every one of my worst expectations and then some. Eileen, your are a doll and a truly amazing reporter, God Bless you for putting up with this with us. And one final plea to the Rumford Board of Selectmen, the "Wind Power Education Committee" you saw diligently appointed to aid us in our quest to be informed responsible voters have spit in all our faces, can the lot of them and bring us a qualified panel BEFORE you require we vote on any ordinance. Don't embarass us, yourselves or this town further by asking us to vote ignorant.

 's picture

Ms. Adams IS kind and professional

Hi Common Sense.

Please see my other comments regarding Ms. Adams' coverage. While she is a faithful reporter, she did get a few facts wrong. As did you.

Those who followed the dialogue you mentioned are aware of your identity. Several Rumford residents came up to me last night to say they were aware of who you are, as-- apparently--your invective is as evident in your prose as it is in person. However, I will remain polite and leave it up to you to 'come out'.

This is not a contest to see who can spout more vitriol. This is a serious issue. At least three wind developers were personally invited to atttend the forum to give their 'side' and we looked forward to the opportunity to challenge their statements. In my opinion, they do you and your community a disservice by not taking every opportunity to educate.

You have made it clear that you support these developments by all the comments you've made under at least two different screen names over the past few months. And frankly, I would be beating my head against the wall to try to convince you to listen to 'the other side'. I wish you would be open-minded, but until such a time as you are willing to be polite and fair and not defame people whom you don't know, there is not much point in trying to talk to you. Still, I once more extend an invitation to you to contact me for access to the dozens of documents I have which convinced me to take the position I have taken, or for access to experts who will speak knowledgeably to you on this subject.

If you understood me to say that no property was for sale in Mars Hill, I apologize for the misconception. I will go back and re-read that exchange when I have a few moments. My intent was to say that those homes in Mars Hill which have been adversely affected by the wind development are not on the market, as I believe they are involved in litigation with the wind developer. Thus, we have no comparable sales data from that local market to use when as we try to discover what effect there will be on the value of Maine residences.

Now is not the time for personal atacks. Now is the time for community members to work together to shape their own destinies. People sometimes disagree, and the sign of true 'community' is when you can disagree without being disagreeable. Don't take it from me. Angus King told me that.

If you wish to continue this conversation, please be a responsible citizen and contact me for a calm and mature discussion. I wouldn't be surprised if the other panelists would speak to you personally, as well, despite how you maligned them. Personal attacks are not allowed in these forums, but you have repeatedly decided to ignore the rules. I hope you will change your behavior, as it does not add anything but a 'side show' quality to a very serious debate.

Karen Pease
Lexington Twp., Maine

 's picture

Karen, you and I spoke last

Karen, you and I spoke last night and I spoke to other panalists. Of course I did not identify myself by my ONE and ONLY screne name which I use so I, my business and family are not threatened as have been at least two Rumford Selectmen and the Town Manager by the members of the anti-wind power special interest group. I know in the past it has been suggested I am Candiceanne and I made it clear that is definitely not the case, though I considered the suggestion a great coompliment. Candiceanne writes under her own name, very adamit about her commitment to signing what she writes, in Rumford these days with all the threatening I envy her her courage and tenacity for sticking with her conviction on that subject. By the way, Candiceanne was NOT at the meeting which should further remove any question as to commonsense being an alias for her. I don't know who the second poster you refer to would be, I oonly hope it is someone of comprable calibre; this could be soooo go for the ego. I would hazard a guess that we three are of the same error having received a proper education which has us thiinking analytically and writing in more complex sentences using words containing more than five letters and no texting style shortcuts. I do have to give Candiceanne credit for one other thing, my typing sucks and she does a much betterr job, on editing on the blog. (Maybe the next upgrade SJ?)

I agree with you, that wind power development, like any economic development or any project for that matter of any size in Maine under the curent conditions is a serious matter. I would change your debate statement to, this SHOULD NOT be a debate. The fact it should not be a debate, I believe is precisely why no credible wind power organization will participate in one of you "meetings." You don't want to have qualified people presenting real science which is what is needed. You want to debate goundless innuendo and anectodes with no basis in science or fact i.e. loss of property value when nothing has been sold to determine this, nothing is up for sale and not sell, and to go completely invalidating the claim you have property owners turning down offers to buy at pre-economic downturn fair market value. The proof is in the putting as they say and the putting is contrary to your claims and you are still screaming the same lost value. I chuckled when I read your excuse for no "effected" properties in Mars Hill being for sale due to being in litigation with the wind power company. Is that under your advice because if one did go on the market and get bought at pre-construction fair market value the case would be shot and the falicy of this claim would be plastered all over the front page of every newspaper in great big 6 inch headline Bold Type, "Mars Hill home sells for pre-economic downturn fair market value. Court throws out case against wind farm for destroying property values. " Great motivation to keep your house off the market, sue someone for adversely effecting property values after the nation why crash and get them to pay pre crash price. If you had no intentions of moving this would be a great money making opportunity, new twist on a flip.

You also say it is not time for persoonal attacks, but isn't that exactly what your grouop has become most famous for.; personal attacks agianst Dr Dora Ann Mills, investors, attorneys, and employees of the wind power firms, the governors of several states, President obama, Congressmen, Legislators, bloggers, at least two Rumford seletctmen and the Town Manager, quite a few Sun Journal forum participants, various scientists,oh and lets not leave out Eileen Adams.

As to where other people stand on the issue, I can't say. I know both Candiceanne and I have been begging for the promised education on the advantages and disadvantages of wind power by qualified individuals presenting in an appropriate forum, not because we have made a decision but because we want to make INFORMED decisions. From her posts I would say we are both very much into basing our decisions on science and fact not emotion or worse an ax to grind on another matter or greed, hoping to make a buck investigating the situation we get people shook-up about. We both worked on NOCC (unpaid) for three years back in the 90s the result the Aniels and other crying wolf, "Cancer Valley" without any science or fact to back it up. Well a lot of science, a lot of data running every way imaginable, and a lot of testing and not only are we not being poisoned by the mill, we have lower than expected cancer rates across the board with one exception that anyone in their right mind would find laughable, we had 1 case of thyroid cancer and we were allowed 1/2 case. How do you have a 1/2 a case of something; that would be like being kinda pregnant. But thanks to people like the Aniels, the River Valley is still known the world over as Cancer Valley which has had an ongoing negative impact on the economic development here. Thank you Aniels for your concern, we really would have hoped you learned your lesson the last time, get the facts and some real science FIRST.

Karen, I did as you asked. I showed up for your meeting, even said hi to you and your panelists. I sure wish you had done as you promised and had qualified people speaking about what they were qualified to speak on with fact and science to back them up. I sure wish I had received some of the education on the advantages and disadvantages of wind power development so many of us have been begging for, but I definitely didn't get any last night. If I had to pick highlight of the night for me, something that summed it up and clinched the total farce of the affair, you had one supposed science type on your panel and this is what we got:

"Another man asked whether Rand had measured the level of noise coming from the NewPage mill in Rumford.

Rand said that although he has not measured it, any noise coming from mills tends to be steady, and not variable as he said wind turbines produce."


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