When voters last November overturned the Maine law allowing same-sex couples to legally marry, they dealt a dispiriting blow to gay rights advocates.
It was their third such defeat since 1995. Prior to 2009, Maine voters rejected proposals in 1995 and 2000 designed to prevent discrimination based on sexual orientation. Opponents of those bills said the legislation was the first step to redefining "traditional marriage."
Given that history, it might seem like gay marriage is unlikely to be considered by Mainers in the foreseeable future.
But same-sex marriage supporters were heartened by an August ruling by a California U.S. District Court judge that said that state's ban on gay marriage was unconstitutional.
The ruling could pave the way for a Supreme Court decision, which could then be used to establish precedent for other states to argue same-sex marriage is protected by the 14th Amendment.
The issue is also playing a role in some legislative races.
According to reports in the Bangor Daily News and the Maine Public Broadcasting Network, the National Organization for Marriage, which spent more than $2 million helping to overturn Maine's gay marriage law, is targeting incumbent legislators who supported the bill.
Currently, five other states have legalized gay marriage: Iowa, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire and Connecticut. All did so through legislation or court rulings, not by popular vote.
Constitutional amendments banning gay marriage have been approved in all 30 states where they have been on the ballot.
Eliot Cutler, 64, independent
Cutler said he voted to support Maine's marriage equality law in 2009, and he continues to support it now.
John Jenkins, 58, independent
Jenkins said he supports gay marriage. However, he wouldn't "use the hammer of government" to ram it down people's throats.
"People who get married are serious," he said. "I'm amazed when people say that (gay marriage) is a threat to the institution of marriage. I say things like domestic violence is more of a threat to the institution than gay marriage."
Paul LePage, 61, Republican
In this and interviews elsewhere, LePage has said he would put the issue of gay marriage to the voters.
If such a bill came through the Legislature, as it did in 2009, he said he would veto it.
"The people of the state of Maine have said no," he said. "(Gov. John Baldacci) passed something after they said no, so the people went back and repealed it again. I think it's my job to honor the wishes of the people of Maine."
LePage said he didn't have a personal stance on the issue.
"I have brothers who are gay and I'm closer to them than some that aren't," he said. "I have a lot of friends that have been gay. Each to their own. People do what they want to do."
Libby Mitchell, 70, Democrat
Mitchell said she supports marriage equality.
"I always support equality and civil liberties," she said.
She said that no church or religious organization is required to accept gay marriage.
She added that civil unions aren't the same as marriage because so many laws and regulations would have to be changed to make the two arrangements equal.
"It's a matter of human dignity," Mitchell said.
Shawn Moody, 51, independent
Moody believes that gay marriage is inevitable.
"I'm quite confident it's a generational issue," Moody said. "They become more socially accepting as time moves on."
But Moody doesn't think the matter should be handled through legislation.
"Maine has set the precedent that they don't want (gay marriage) decided by the Legislature," Moody said. "As governor, I wouldn't promote my own personal beliefs, but I would certainly be sensitive to the will of the voters."
Kevin Scott, 42, independent
Scott said his position on gay marriage would be determined by the will of voters.
"The people of Maine voted not to allow gay marriage," he said. "That's where I am. When they vote to allow gay marriage, that's where I am."
Scott said he would fight discrimination against homosexuals. However, he isn't "into redefining marriage."


I just love the way this
I just love the way this newspaper trots out the issues that they think can damage mr. lePage as a candidate and makes the others look wodnerful.....November will be a wonderful month as we wantch all the liberal media crying over their losses...
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right now people need work
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.If you can't site anything but God/religion as the reason..
that homosexuality is wrong, then there is no logical reason why gay marriage should not be legal. That's a fundamental of separating church and state.
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If you get same sex marriage, whalt will you want next? Same sex Civil Unions were "never going to lead to same sex marriage". Remember that one? So, what's next after gay marriage? Tell us now, so that we, the people, can decide when the time comes to vote on it again.
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Logical?
You don't have to believe in God for him to be real. And not believing in Him doesn't mean He doesn't exist. And not believing in Him won't stop you from going to Hell.
I will pray for you
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And God doesn't have to be real in order for you to believe in 'Him'.
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Believing in a god doesn't make him real. And believing in him doesn't mean he exists. And believing in him won't put you in heaven.
I'll just sit right here and do nothing.
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I hope it works out for you
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Find "Seperation of church and state" in the constitution. It isn't there.
"“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances "
It simply means that the government will not make a law establishing a state religion, like England had at the time when the only legal church was The Church of England. And that government will not prohibit anyone from practicing their chosen religion.
It never says that the church can't support political candidates or causes.
You have bought into this myth just as you bought into the gay "born this way" and "being gay is normal" myths.
You really need to study our constitution before you start misquoting it.
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Actually I never quoted the constitution. Sorry, man. You can read most any historian, from Wood to Zinn to Bailyn, and it's not hard to find that religion did not mean much if anything to the heavy majority of the founding fathers, and there was absolutely a clear intent to keep government distinctly separate from the church.
And no I haven't bought into any myth that homosexuals were born that way, because I realize that there isn't a definitive answer as to whether they are or not. But, I live by the idea that if someone wants to do something that does not adversely affect me, I have no right to keep them from it.
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They were protecting the church fron government, not government from the church..
You said "and there was absolutely a clear intent to keep government distinctly separate from the church. "
Show me where they made that clear. They were simply protecting people's rights to worship as they please without government interference. They never said that churches could not endorse candidates or legislation.
There is no such thing as seperation of church and state. Thomas Jefferson and some preachers coined that phrase in letters between themselves where Jefferson was assuring the pastors that the government would not interfere with their worship, or dictate what they should believe, or tax the church in any way.
Man, read your history....you don't know what you are talking about.
Again.....there is no such thing as "seperation of church and state".
And, a queer is a queer because he wants to be a queer.
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Unless I'm mistaken, those letters you allude to were written AFTER the Constitution was ratified. In fact, I understand that Jefferson also later wrote that he wished that the Constitution was written with clear language providing for that separation. It strikes me as rather odd that all those people who insist that "separation" is really concrete can still allow the House of Representatives and Senate to have Chaplains, and to start each legislative year with a prayer. That's rather contradictory, don't you think? However, I don't agree with anyone who states that homosexuality is a "chosen lifestyle". Yes, they are really born that way. I think it's wrong, an abberation. I also think it really isn't any of my business. Or anyone else's, for that matter.
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Those letters were written after the Bill of Rights was passed. And yes, Jefferson wanted a stricter interpretation of he relationship between the church and the government. But it didn't happen. Although his ideas have endured for 200 years they were never put into law. Thus, "separation of church and state" remains an ideal today, and not a law.
But so many people misquote it, and misuse it, and they don't even know what they are talking about. They just heard the phrase all of their life, so they assume it is true.
Think about it, what would be democratic about allowing gay organizations, women's rights groups, NAACP, ACLU, the unions, and even the KKK to have a voice and a lobby in government, but then not allow Christians? That doesn't even make sense, much less is it legal. But most people think that this is how it is. If they would think about it then they would surely realize how dumb that is.
I respect your stance on gays even though I disagree with you. At least you give a logical argument and don't just quote the same politically correct lies.
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I know what I'm saying, trust me. Again, you've been putting words in my mouth this entire time. I think you've had these arguments before and are assuming I think the same way people who give similar arguments do. If you go back the the first post I made, I stated that I was in favor of allowing the majority to vote gay marriage into law, because I believe that will come fairly soon.
I'm not arguing against the idea of religious groups with lobbies or an influence on public thought, I am arguing against religious-based ideas being the foundation for laws in the country. I haven't said anything about the separation of church and state being in the constitution, I am saying it was clear what our founding fathers thought about separating church and state. And yes, the establishing of an official church for the state is a part of the idea, but another part, that the founding fathers shared, was that they did not want religions to directly influence the government. I don't really feel like going into "The Radicalism of the American Revolution", possibly the most well respected book on the subject, and quoting everything it says there about the founding fathers' attitudes towards religion.
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"A very large percentage of the population is homosexual" - can you please provide statistics? I googled and found this information: 1.51% of the total U.S. population identifies themselves as gay, lesbian or bisexual, or 4.3 total million Americans on this website http://www.adherents.com/adh_dem.html. That is hardly "A very large percentage."
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On that same page there is another source saying, from exit poll data, 4% of the population is gay.
http://www.nationalsexstudy.indiana.edu/ - This study suggests 7-8%. I tend to think it's somewhere in the 4-8 range. You can find studies all over that say different numbers. But let me appease you for a moment and say it is indeed only 1.51% of the population (I don't believe this poll at all since it's coming from a website based on religion, and the same numbers say only .4% of the population are atheists... it could find you 2 million atheists in a day). That is still over 4 million people. That is more than three times the state of Maine. Homosexuals are a large minority of the population and deserve the same rights as the rest of us.
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already have the same rights as the rest of us. Now they want special rights added to accomodate their sexual perversions.
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond."it could find you 2 million
"it could find you 2 million atheists in a day". I'm guess you meant to say "I" not "it" - in which case I accept your challenge. Please, find me 2 million atheists in a day. Don't be slinging around numbers you can't back up hurumble. It just makes you look foolish.
And, for the record, I was only questioning your comment of "large percentage of the population", not whether or not homosexuals should be able to marry.
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I apologize if I was trying to legitimize the idea of homosexual marriage if that wasn't what you were questioning.
And yes, I'm also sorry for the "it" instead of the "I". I think the guy who posted the numbers will suffice, since I don't really feel like doing all that work. Maybe I should have been a little more clear, since there are probably plenty more actual atheists (that is, someone who is absent of a believe in a god) than self-identifying atheists. There is still a bit of a stigma in our society with that word.. unlike struggling homosexuals who may try to be straight when they are not, however, people who don't have a belief in a god sometimes like to use words that are seen as less extreme sounding like agnostic or non-religious.
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Repeating the same link I provided yesterday, Americans' religious preferences are listed in Table 75 for 2010 at http://www.census.gov/prod/www/abs/statab2006_2010.html
rounding to the nearest 100,000
Atheists: 1.6 million
Agnostics: 2.0 million
No religion: 30.4 million
Refused to reply: 11.8 million
So hurumble is slightly overstating the number if you count only those who explicitly state that they are atheists. Overall, 2 million is probably an underestimate if you consider that a lot of people who don't believe there is any god are just going to answer "no religion" or "don't bother me".
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Repeating the same link I provided yesterday, American's religious preferences are listed in Table 75 for 2010 at http://www.census.gov/prod/www/abs/statab2006_2010.html
rounding to the nearest 100,000
Atheists: 1.6 million
Agnostics: 2.0 million
No religion: 30.4 million
Refused to reply: 11.8 million
So hurumble is slightly overstating the number if you count only those who explicitly state that they are atheists. Overall, 2 million is probably an underestimate if you consider that a lot of people who don't believe there is any god are just going to answer "no religion" or "don't bother me".
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.The whole choice thing issue is a little ridiculous
The idea that homosexuality is a choice is a fallacious argument, because it doesn't matter. I could care less whether homosexuality is from nature, nurture, or choice. Homosexuality is, in fact, something that does not affect anyone else but the individual and his/her consenting partner. Therefore, people should be left alone to live the way they see fit as long as no one or nothing is being adversely affected. Now, if the government is going to be in the business of granting marriages, it has the duty to accept these individuals as equals and grant them what they deserve.
As for the issue of homosexuality as something that is against the religious morality of several religions, no one is saying churches or mosques have to marry homosexuals. This is a fundamental separation of church vs. state issue. The church should not be forced to recognize people they (in my eyes, wrongfully) deem immoral as married, and if people of these religions are against gay marriage, then they should just look at marriage through the eyes of their church instead of the eyes of the government.
The acceptance of homosexuality is rising, and I am confident that the people of the state of Maine will vote to grant homosexuals the right to marry within the next 10 years if Paul LePage is our governor and keeps the legislature from granting them their right. I do not consider this a major issue if he does in fact become our governor. While several civil rights issues needed the government to change before people's opinions changed, this seems to be shifting much more organically toward the side of equality.
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My biggest concern is the school systems teaching grade school kids that homosexuality is normal. Books such as "Heather Has Two Mommies" and "The Prince and the Prince" are available to some 1st and 2nd graders. Not to mention the sex-ed classes that teach homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle.
I have a 5 year old, and I don't want taught that something we deem as immoral is normal. It's not.
And this issue is an issue that the new governor could very possibly have to deal with.
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Well, what makes something normal?
It's completely normal to the people who are homosexuals, and it doesn't affect anyone or anything else adversely, so why shouldn't we teach it as something that is normal? What makes it abnormal? A very large percentage of the population is homosexual, so it seems pretty normal to me.
If a school decides to have books such as The Prince and the Prince in their library, that's an issue for the community, not one for the state.
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make it abnormal. And it does affect me. Public acceptance of perverted sexual behavior, even public displays of it are immoral, unnatural and socially degrading. Men having "sex" with men is a step backward in the development of society. Only primitive species would get so confused that they try to mate with the wrong sex.
A homosexual society is NOT the legacy I want to leave to my children.
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LePage said he didn't have a personal stance on the issue. "I have brothers who are gay and I'm closer to them than some that aren't," he said. "I have a lot of friends that have been gay. Each to their own. People do what they want to do."
So then why permit the voters of Maine to make a decision regarding peoples' lives? When the issues of slavery and womens's rights to vote were put to the voters they were turned down as well, which is why it took a Presidential Proclamation to eliminate one, and a Constitutional Amendment (ratified by three-quarter of the states, either by the legislatures thereof, or in amendment conventions-not by the voters at large).
Gay marriage hurts no one. People who are now in heterosexual marriages, upon legalizing of gay marriage, are not suddenly going to get divorced in droves and rush into gay marriages. I doubt even one marraige, in the entire country, would end up that way. Are the anti-gay marriage folks thinking that without gay marriage, gay folks will just change and enter into heterosexual marriages? It doesn't happen now, so I can't believe that anyone really thinks that. Anti-gay marriage folks say that gays can have "civil unions." A civil union is simply not the same. Period. It does not come with the same legal rights and protections that come with a marriage. Further, how does a gay marriage in any way impact a heterosexual marriage? It can't and it doesn't. It has no impact whatsoever. The issue is simply the conservative churches trying to hang onto the very last vestige of control that they have over society, so in essence, this is intereference in the affairs of state by the church. The law in Maine specifially stated that churches whose dogma was against gay marriage, would not be required to perform or sanctify a gay marriage. So that takes us back to my previous statement. Churches seek to control society. Period.
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I am so tired of people comparing gay marriage to slavery and a woman's right to vote. There is no comparison. Slavery was determined by skin color, NOT because of anything black people did. Women were denied the right to vote because of gender discrimination, and not because of any choice they made to behave or live a certain way. In other words, in these two examples, black people and women were discriminated against because of what they were, NOT WHAT THEY CHOSE TO BE.
Gays on the other hand are not discriminated against at all. They have the same rights to marry as I do. It is just as legal for a homosexual to marry a woman as it is me. And it is just as illegal for me to marry a man as it is for them. However, they want to change the laws and traditions of this country based not on what they are, but on WHAT THEY CHOOSE TO BE.
Unlike slaves and women, homosexuals want the laws changed to accomodate their choice of behavior. I do not believe that deviant, perverted sexual behavior should be rewarded, nor should it be legitimized and accepted as normal......but it is certainly not normal. It isn't even natural.
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You obviously believe that people choose to be homosexual. Do you remember when it was that you made the choice to be heterosexual?
How old were you? Do you remember how you felt inside when you said to yourself "Yes, I'll choose to be straight, I'll be attracted to the opposite sex, and that's that"?
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.That is one of the dumbest arguments for homosexuality there is
Of course i didn't make a choice to be heterosexual. We are all heterosexual, so I didn't have to make a choice. Gays choose to be different.
Heterosexual is the way God made us, it is not a choice. And don't give me the line about God making some people queer.....it doesn't happen.
I am straight because that's the way we are all born, and gays are queer because they choose to be.
And there isn't one solid sliver of proof that gays are born queer.
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Has John Jenkins ever been married and he is living with someone? Gays should be allowed to be married, they have the right to be miserable and experience the pain of divorce. It is hard to find a man to get married but two man!!So JJ your take on marriage..
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