Our View |
Friday, November 19, 2010
Speaking of shared sacrifice, tens of thousands of Americans have put their lives on the line in the war on terror.
Many of them have spent days under broiling sun in deserts and nights on freezing mountain tops. They have been shot at and bombed, and several thousand have died, while many more have been injured.
And now some Americans are afraid to step in front of a whole body scanner at an airport to help thwart terrorists?
And some of those are then unwilling to endure a simple pat-down search by a member of their own sex?
Good grief.
Take a bus. Drive. Ride a train. Board a boat. Walk if you have to.
But get the hell out of the way.
Report a correction
Pat downs
Back in December of 2001 I was doing a job in the Detroit, MI area. My 18 year old daughter got her mother to drive her all the way from Arkansas to see me.
My daughter is gorgeous and she came not just to see me, but to audition for a modeling agency. The agency offered to pay for her school for modeling. I am only telling you this so that you get the picture of her and what happened at the airport.
I wasn't sure I could finish my job by Christmas so I put her on a plane to Little Rock. At the Detroit airport there were several security stopping people at random and patting them down. One of them was a young guy that looked to be in his 20's. I was watching across the metal detector to see what went on. The young guard singled out my daughter and proceeded to "pat" her down. He was very personal and invasive, and I was screaming for the supervisor. My daughter told him not to touch her close to her crouch, and he told her he had to check her if she wanted to get on the plane.
The supervisor came and put a stop to it, and let my daughter go on to her flight. All they would let me do was to fill out a complaint form......I never heard from them
We need airline security, but we have to be protected from excessive invasion of our bodies also.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (1) Agree (2)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Pat downs
Back in December of 2001 I was doing a job in the Detroit, MI area. My 18 year old daughter got her mother to drive her all the way from Arkansas to see me.
My daughter is gorgeous and she came not just to see me, but to audition for a modeling agency. The agency offered to pay for her school for modeling. I am only telling you this so that you get the picture of her and what happened at the airport.
I wasn't sure I could finish my job by Christmas so I put her on a plane to Little Rock. At the Detroit airport there were several security stopping people at random and patting them down. One of them was a young guy that looked to be in his 20's. I was watching across the metal detector to see what went on. The young guard singled out my daughter and proceeded to "pat" her down. He was very personal and invasive, and I was screaming for the supervisor. My daughter told him not to touch her close to her crouch, and he told her he had to check her if she wanted to get on the plane.
The supervisor came and put a stop to it, and let my daughter go on to her flight. All they would let me do was to fill out a complaint form......I never heard from them
We need airline security, but we have to be protected from excessive invasion of our bodies also.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (1) Agree (3)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.I for one will refuse to be "gate raped".
If the airlines are smart they'll kick the TSA out of their airports.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (2) Agree (7)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Editorial Board
I'll bet that the next time any of the Editorial Board flies and gets felt up by a TSA (Touch Some A__) worker, he'll be shouting "Don't Touch My Junk, or I'll have you arrested!"
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (2) Agree (4)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.so let me get this straight
so let me get this straight it is unconstitutional to racially profile people who look like they might be actual terrorists, but it's perfectly acceptable to virtually strip search everyone. And frisk the rest!!! guilty until proven innocent!! How long until they have these scanners at malls, sports arenas, hospitals and schools!!! On every street corner scanning every car as it drives by!! You'll all be SOOOOO Safe then!!! It's for your own good!! It will save the children!!
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (3) Agree (8)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.No - you don't have it straight.
You should go to school and learn Constitutional Law.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (3) Agree (2)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.The terrorists must be
The terrorists must be rolling over in laughter. Every time they do something new the flying public loses out as the powers that be decide to look for that item. This amounts to driving by your rear view mirror/camera. There are devices and animals out there that can sniff out explosives far faster, more conveniently, and with better results than what they are doing now. Do you think that the pat down (groping) artist will be as thorough with grandma/grandpa as with a cute young thing. Also, after a day of groping many many passengers how attentive do we think these folks are going to be. How many people will take the advice of the LSJ and quit flying? I, for one, am ready.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (1) Agree (10)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.skippy writes "Do you think that...
...the pat down (groping) artist will be as thorough with grandma/grandpa as with a cute young thing."
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Brought to you by the folks who brought you "Freedom Fries"
BecauseFEAR SELLS
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (1) Agree (4)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Welcome to the Police state!!
Welcome to the Police state!! I for one would gladly take my chances with the Terrorists then get molested by some Dip SH!@ TSA Dumb @$$!! As a Man can I request to fondled by a Woman!! Is it Ok for me to ask the TSA reps sexual orientation, to ensure he is not enjoying his job to much!! Or should I just get naked in the security line to speed things up!!
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (7) Agree (7)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.God gave you two legs. Walk.
You wouldn't know a 'Police State' if it bit you in the azz.....
#1 - You sure as hell wouldn't be posting here.........
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (5) Agree (4)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.As a veteran, this kind of
As a veteran, this kind of stuff is an intrusion on the rights that I have fought for, to protect.
The 4th amendment of the bill of rights clearly states: The right of the people to be secure in their persons,
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (2) Agree (10)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Sorry - we didn't fight for the right to fly.
That belongs to birds.
It's a privilege for us IF you can afford it. Don't want to get searched?? Don't get in line.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (4) Agree (7)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Where were the Conservative Complainers....
When George Bush was El Presidente???
They were crying for every liberty possible to be stripped away in the name of 'National Security. So cry me a freakin' river.
Imagine the poor TSL workers who are required to do this crap for a living. I can hear 'em pizzing and moaning in the break room now: "God, I could barely face that last one - the way their 'Junk Stunk'..."
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedAgree (7)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.I bet they make more then
I bet they make more then most people
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (1)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Stinky Junk????? YUKKKK, sez
Stinky Junk????? YUKKKK, sez the parrot.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (2) Agree (2)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Maine's congressional delegation upset
From the Bangor Daily News two days ago:
http://new.bangordailynews.com/2010/11/17/politics/delegation-upset-with...
"The use of full body scanner technology by the Transportation Security Administration at airports across the country is setting off alarms with members of Maine’s congressional delegation."
Susan Collins, Olympia Snowe, Mike Michaud, and Chellie Pingree all spoke out with concerns about the safety of body scans and serious privacy issues of body searches.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (2) Agree (10)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Don't like it, too bad.
This isn't requiring people to get xrayed to vote or somthing.
YOU DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO FLY.
Get that into your noggin. You don't have a right to fly. You can walk, drive, canoe, whatever. If you want to ride a plane, you have to play by their rules. And they are not surprising you with this.
Do I think it works? Ehhh, I think that planes are tempting targets, and if this makes it harder to get a bomb on board, so be it.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (18) Agree (4)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Johnny Quest-Typical
Johnny Quest-Typical CON-servative response: "if you don't like it, leave." Well, friend, I DON'T LIKE IT and I'm NOT leaving. Wo died and made you the sole arbiter of right and wrong. You complain that you want to take back "your" country. My family has been here since 1680 so, native Americans notwithstanding, this is as much MY country as yours. All of that said, the sole purpose of the terrorist attacks on this country has been to cause us to give up the liberties we enjoy. With every attempted attacked, those in charge of our security ramp up and roll yet more intrusive, invasive, or restrictive measures further restricting or abridging our liberties. We're playing right into the hands of the terrorists. The best thing we could do is just go about living our lives. Of course, exercise a little due diligence, it isn't that hard to do. Otherwise, if we keep going, we'll end up being the restricted, narrow-minded society that they want us to become.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedAgree (17)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Are you serious?
Do you really believe the LSJ editorial board is a group of conservatives? It's a typical liberal tactic to suggest the Constitution can mean anything you want it to mean, and then to dare those of us who disagree to get out.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (5) Agree (4)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Sorry about that.
Post in haste, regret in leisure. I skipped the JQ reference.
At least I'll acknowledge a mistake. Some, of course, never make any - if you don't believe me, just ask them.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedAgree (1) Disagree (1)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Did you read cranky yankee's post?
First, he was addressing johnny quest's comment above, not the LSJ editorial board. Secondly, he didn't bring up the constitution. Thirdly, he didn't tell anyone to get out for disagreeing with him; he was posting a response to that kind of language.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedAgree (3)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.The letter "F"
The only thing that Facts and Frostproof's postings have in common.
You'll get used to that some day.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (2) Agree (4)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.What an ignorant and uncaring
What an ignorant and uncaring opinion piece for frequent fliers to read. Has the author heard that there are people who are actually *required* to fly frequently for their jobs? I know someone who has to fly at least once a week, sometimes twice, for her job. Either she gets a dose of radiation every time or she gets felt up. Would you suggest she and others like her quit their jobs and join the ranks of the unemployed? As far as being felt up by a member of the same sex, would a man like his genitals touched by Barney Frank? How about Rosie ODonnell sliding her hand over a woman's vaginal area? My point is that same sex doesn't necessarily mean anything.
At any rate, if a terrorist is determined to blow up a plane, they will now simply put the explosives in a body cavity. I'm surprised the TSA doesn't have everyone bending over for a cavity search, that will probably be the next thing.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (5) Agree (22)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.I would think it's ignorant
I would think it's ignorant to expect to be kept safe while traveling but then balk at the methods used to assure that safety. As someone with a family members who flies for a living as a Federal Air Marshall I applaud the TSA for taking this action. One type of machine exposes travelers to no more radiation than 2 minutes of flight; the other much less than a cell phone.
If you don't want to be physically touched then use the scanner; if you don't want to go through the scanner than don't fly. The editor is correct - you under no obligation to fly - job or no job. If you are so homophobic then ask for an employee of the opposite.
Those complaining would be the first to sue the airline in the event of an attack.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (4) Agree (2)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Nancy, I would say exactly
Nancy, I would say exactly that.
Don’t want a job that forces you to deal with airport security? Don’t get a job that requires you to fly.
And really, you guys think a pat down it a grope a thon? My doctor touches my scrotum during a physical, I bet he’s a homosexual too.
You people seriously think they are getting off on this? Have you seen what America looks like? For the sake of argument, lets say your right. Perverts and homosexuals have infiltrated the TSA purely to grope people. Sure. Ok, but the problem is this: for every hot person/minor/whatever they might get to feel up, they are going to have to check 100s of people who:
Have been traveling, and smell it.
Look like they have bedbugs
Look and smell like feces
Drunk
So come on. Nobody is getting off on this.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (6) Agree (1)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.My friend has had her job for
My friend has had her job for years, long before the new airport security measures. She and everyone who are frequent fliers and who disagree with the new rules should quit their jobs, is that what you're saying?
I don't see where anyone said anything about perverts infiltrating the TSA. You can disagree with my opinion but you shouldn't get too carried away and start making things up.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedAgree (5)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Wait,what???
Have you actually READ any of the accounts of air travelers who have been through this? Some of them are not searched by a member of their own sex, some of them have been have been more than "patted down". It is not my duty as an American to give up my freedoms just to cross the country to see my family. The TSA should be more educated as to how to look for potential problems instead of the "whack everyone with a big stick and eventually we'll get someone" policy that they are using now.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (2) Agree (20)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond."a simple pat-down search"
is what they used to do when you triggered the metal detector. Experienced that. The simple pat-down has been replaced with a simple feel-up search.
The problem isn't giving up a bit of privacy as part of shared sacrifice; it is giving up a bit of privacy for the illusion of greater security. That's not shared sacrifice—it is using the term 'shared sacrifice' as an excuse for extending the intrusiveness of a bureaucracy with no evidence of corresponding benefit.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (6) Agree (18)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Chertoff
And the former head of homeland security is now lobbying for the scanner producer. Think maybe that has anything to do with it?
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (3) Agree (18)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.This is in response to the Underwear Bomber.
It took TSA only about a year to come up with this intrusive procedure. I suppose that's pretty efficient for a heavily unionized organization.
This whole approach to security is stupid because its premise is: Each one of 300 million Americans is equally likely to be a terrorist. The premise should be: Focus on those whose behavior is indicative of a terrorist. But that would be profiling!! (Cue the moaning and hand wringing.) Contact the folks at El Al for a quick lesson.
Those servicemen you speak of so righteously took an oath to support and defend the Constitution. I wonder how they feel about another branch of the federal government trashing the fourth amendment.
Anyhow, Editorial Board, get back to us after your 4 year old daughter or 80 year old grandmother gets groped at the airport.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (2) Agree (23)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.The problem with profiling
The problem with profiling is that is it is entirely too subjective. Using Israel as an example is misleading cause they spend ridiculous amounts on security, mostly cause they have to. And it isn't racial profiling, it's behavioral profiling. They require people to show up to the airport 3 hours early, they check passengers and luggage, INTERVIEW EACH PASSENGER(captialized for emphasis), test luggage is a pressure chamber, ect....
Racial profiling is not an answer, it's a logical facility. Just because someone looks Arab doesn't mean you should investigate them. El Al knows this, and that's why they interview. If you focus on Arab looking people, they will just recruit someone who doesn't look the part.
And BTW - This isn't a violation of the 4th amendment. You don't have to fly. If you chose to fly, you maybe be asked to be scanned or pat down. You can refuse. You won't board the plane, but you are NOT being force to be searched.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (14) Agree (3)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Profiling.
"20 years of attacks on airlines by Muslim extremists.
Sept.11 2001 3000 americans slaughtered by muslim extremists.
Oct. 2000 USS Cole bombed and U.S. servicemen killed by muslim extremists.
1998 Embassy in Kenya and Tanzania attacked by muslim extremists.
1996 U.S. housing complex in Saudia Arabia attacked by muslim extremists.
1995 5 Americans killed by car bombs by muslim extremists.
1993 World trade center in NYC bombed by muslim extremists.
1988 Pan Am flight 103 bombed by muslim extremists.
1986 West Berlin night club bombed by muslim extremists.
1985 Italian cruise ship hijacked and a 69 y.o. American murdered and thrown overboard by muslim extremists.
1983 USMC barracks in Beirut bombed by muslim extremists.
1982 US embassy in Beirut bombed by muslim extremists.
1979 US embassy in Teirhan seized and Americans held hostage for 444 days by muslim extremists.
Meanwhile 100% of attacks on U.S. airlines for 20 years have been committed by muslim extremists.
When 100% of attacks are commited by muslims it ceases to be profile. It is called a discription of the suspect." Ann Coulter.
Every day appr. 2 million Americans and many more honest citizens around the world are treated like suspects because of a handful of extremists practicing a stone age religion. One would think there would be a much simpler solution.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (3) Agree (7)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.perhaps
don't like it? don't fly! take a bus, drive or take a train.. what the heck do people want? their cake and eat it too?It's a war people ! duh... "don't frisk me or take my ex ray, but its your fault (gov) if I die."
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (10) Agree (12)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.I draw the line at the equivelant of a strip search
How about you go through my checked luggage. X-Ray my carry-on, even search them. I will gladly walk barefoot through a metal detector while my shoes are X-rayed. I will even have me and my stuff subjected to explosive sniffing devices and dogs. I draw the line at the equivelant of a strip search.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (3) Agree (17)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Oh, and don't touch me.
Oh, and don't touch me.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (2) Agree (14)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Excuse me, but what did you say?
Have you seen these images that come from these new technologies? I don't oppose them but besides the radiation worries there are other concerns. Google this and see just how clear these images are, especially the backscatter, and although we have been told that these images are not saved... Well in some cases they are and the technology exists to share these images over the internet and too save them to disk. These are not as we have been told, like looking at a chalk outline of a person. Perhaps you trust "gubernment" too much.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (7) Agree (21)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.I don't often agree with you
I don't often agree with you XYZ but you got this one deaad on.
- Permalink
- Is this comment inappropriate?
Kudos AwardedDisagree (4) Agree (10)
Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.