LEWISTON — Councilors asked Bartlett Street neighbors to talk to each other, hoping to head off bigger problems smoldering between members of a mosque and nearby property owners.
Former City Councilor Denis Theriault, owner of two buildings on the west side of Bartlett Street, just north of Adams Avenue, told councilors he shouldn't have to work so hard defending his property.
"This happens all the time. These are a confrontational people," Theriault said. "I'm tired. I don't think I should have to spend my nights playing policeman protecting my property, and neither should my son."
He outlined problems he and neighbor Elmer Berry have with the mosque, located across from him at 256 Bartlett St. and used by Lewiston's Somali Bantu residents, over two hours Tuesday night at a City Council workshop.
Theriault alleged members of the mosque have regularly parked on his property, taking spaces from his tenants, since the mosque opened last year. When he complained, they escalated. They've used their cars to block his driveways, left trash behind, thrown rocks onto his property and destroyed his first "No Trespassing" sign.
He responded by putting up a sturdier sign and taking pictures to document what he saw.
They responded, he said, by verbally threatening him. But Theriault, who carries a concealed handgun, said he will not be threatened.
"One individual approached me and came onto my property and told me I didn't have the right to take his picture," Theriault said. "When his companion walked around to my side, I unzipped my jacket and put my hand on my weapon."
Theriault said the city made a mistake when it approved the mosque for that space last year.
"It's almost like the Somalis have been set up to fail," he said. "They don't belong in a building that size for what they want to do. But they're there."
The city approved the use of the building at 256 Bartlett St. as a mosque in November 2009, requiring building owner Joseph Jenkins to provide 17 parking spaces nearby and to limit occupancy to 98 people at a time. City officials believed that more spaces were unnecessary since most people attending the mosque would walk or carpool.
Code Enforcement and Planning Director Gil Arsenault said the city recognized the limited parking in the lot. It has space for up to seven vehicles on site, but only if members drive on property belonging to next-door neighbor, Sparta Vending owner Elmer Berry.
Theriault said the Somalis do not have that permission. Berry has started putting up traffic cones to block his property from the neighbors.
The city required the mosque to rent the rest of their necessary spaces from 199 Bartlett St. That lease ends in February 2011 — and so does the mosque's conditional-use permit. They'll have to find additional parking or find a new place to worship.
Mosque member Abdul Ali, speaking for the elders in charge of the mosque, said it rarely draws more than 40 worshipers. The only time larger crowds are expected are during the two Eid holy days. The most recent was Nov. 17.
Ali said the members are negotiating to find a larger venue for those special occasions. But he said no single person is in charge of the mosque and urged Theriault to simply tow the cars of people that park in his lot.
Theriault said that was his plan.
"Beginning tonight, it's an immediate tow order on any car that is not supposed to be parked there," Theriault said.
Councilors asked Theriault, Berry and city staffers to meet with the members of the mosque, scheduling a meeting by this Friday.
"It's unacceptable that this is happening," Councilor Renee Bernier said. "You can't just go parking on people's property, so we need to get this sorted out before it gets worse."



Joe Public....
You say you refuse to buy the SJ....yet you read it!!!....online...for free!!!......YOU, Joe Public...make no sense to me at all...
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Your comment at Madeleine?..
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If they don't have enough parking, why was the permit issued? Were they set up to fail, or was some city official trying to make sure that the city wasn't opening itself up to a potential lawsuit when the somalis played the race card?
Maybe they should rent out a portion of the bates mill? Theres plenty of parking there and it is still within walking distance of city slums. It's a win-win for everybody; someone finally uses the mill, and no more illegal parking, no vandalism, and no more attempting to intimidate armed property owners.
Seriously though; you try to flank the guy on the street, you're lucky you didn't get shot.
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.... Don't Tow - Giv'em Dog Crap To Go
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OK, making the same comment 12 times is the equivalent of spamming. Knock it off.
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I think you exaggerated the amount of churches in Lewiston. I would say there are 20-30 at the most.There's no way they out number the Chinese restaurants in town.
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I was joking about the amount of Chinese Restaurants, but not the amount of Churches. So if you disagree then show me where you get 123 churches. I've lived here for 40 years and recall ever seeing that many. Prove me wrong and I'll shut up.
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To all those who feel the need to disagree follow the link and read the section area churches.http://www.ci.lewiston.me.us/clerk/genealogy.htm
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Instead of sending money home to other countries... build a place or find a place larger
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There are over 123 churches in Lewiston, ME. The Muslim community cannot even find one mosque. You speak of freedom of religion? what happen to that.
Yes most of the Somalis here were refugees and now more than 50% of them are Citizens so its time to treat them like such. Same rights to all citizens and freedom to practice their religion as the constitution you so speak of gave them.
it has been 11 years since Somalis moved here. They are not going anywhere for the next 11 years so its just better to treat them as your neighbors for the rest of your live times.
Many Somalis are getting assistant from the state because local business don't hire black people, Somalis. The Unemployment rate is a lot higher among the immigrants here because Maine business discriminate against them.
Discrimination against Employment, Education, Housing and all other aspect of live is hard enough and now denying them a place to practice their faith and pray to their GOD for better life is just unthinkable.
Dennis, the guy who is complaining about the mosque's existence has several apartment complex. guess what, even though his neighborhood has over 90% Somalis/blacks, he doesn't have one single black tenant. what does that says about him. Housing Discrimination.
And they thought Maine was a good place to raise family.
People will assimilate when their is something good but who can assimilate to a community that is 100% against your existent.
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In America many of us will be celebrating Thanksgiving. For many of us it is a day for giving thanks and recognizing that everything we have is a gift from God – even our sorrows. I want to extend my hand in friendship to all Somali people and to say Happy Thanksgiving from our home to all of yours. I am grateful that you are here. With one person missing in this world, the world would be less. We all have something to share. All of us. :)
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madeline i dont think you should apologize for anyone but yourself, we are adults and can speak for ourselves.
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What we really need is a Italian Governor. Let the MOB solve the problem.
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The city occupancy permit should of never been issued, if it was you or I it would of been denied. The city WILL in the end accomodate the Mosque in some manner, just wait and see, either moving or parking accomodations. Read the $300 an hour city legal opinion on the city website, the city is running scared of being sued, and the somali's are being herded by the city council president, you are missing the big picture. Hmm, how about Bates mill becoming a somali casino/mosque? Plenty of parking spaces! Plenty of welfare still available, or sorry assistance is a better word than welfare. Will the last one in Lewiston turn out the lights, the city has to finally make a stand, Larry Raymond was right, and apparently Larry Gilbert predicted the violence to come.
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What's being lost in all of your screaming and blind hatred is the sentiment from the Somali elders who support Theriault in towing cars that don't belong there. Seems to me that this is more of an age issue than a race or religion issue. But that argument takes reason and reading skills, two things sorely lacking in the world of the SJ commentors.
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I removed this comment for violating our commenting policy, which forbids racist statements.
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I removed this comment for violating our commenting policy, which forbids racist comments.
Since it was made before I warned BugBear for the last comment, it will not count as a second strike against her.
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if it was my property i would start slashing tires!
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I bet if the mosque was a church and the people attending were white, Mr. Theriault and Berry would have no problem. But, of course. The nerve of 'these' people, parking in a parking lot!! Mr. Theriault is well within his rights, of course, doesn't mean he's right.
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If you violate this policy again your account will be banned for one week.
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Then someone else gets the parking spot while you get something in the butt.
That's some real constructive thinking there, BearBug
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I see any point of view but that of beingin favor of the Somalies is banned by this paper it wasnt that long ago that this country was about free speech !I went to war for this country for free speech,yet anything this paper thinks not to be correct they ban ! Well what about my rights what about good old tell the truth does it really hurt that much ??? One reason why I refuse to buy this paper !
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I completely agree with you ! Have you looked around and listened? WE... the ones who have lived our entire lives here, paid our taxes and worked hard our whole lives, are the ones who's freedoms and liberties are being taken away. And WHY? Because the Somali Elders may get offended ? Big deal . How many of their people keep doing things that offend us, and no one does a dam thing about it, except for make excuses for them, and coddle them. So now they know they will never be held responsible for anything "bad" they do, they go on ahead, and do just what ever they want to do, thinking they are better then the rest of us. And we are suppose to take it all in stride and take it all quietly. That BS !! I won't buy this paper either, because they are VERY partial, and too afraid they may offend the wrong person ! SO it is easier for them to just remove our comments if it is something THEY don't agree with, and take away OUR freedom of speach. Now if a Somali made a comment that offended every single one of us....the good old S&J would leave it be. They will take away OUR freedom of speech, but not theirs! Maybe they should just rename themselves "The Somali Gazette" or something.
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Because some Somalian Elder might be offended.
Care to enumerate them.......???
Do you live in Somalia now, Diane - that you are no longer in Lewiston??
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The problem with these people is a cultural clash with our way of life and beliefs. In some cases stupidity and a lack of knowledge drives their actions, in others growing up in a culture of 'take what you can, while you can' is the norm. I fear it is going to take a very long time (if ever) before these people truly integrate into our community and way of life.
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and learn how to use a pop-up blocker, that is if you're like Denis Theriault and you'd rather complain than actually do something constructive
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He probably thinks that's something to keep his Junk from being noticed......
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Your grandparents did not assimilate. In many French families, the children still weren't speaking English, 3 generations in. The Church grabbed them up as soon as they got here and encouraged them to stay separate and be suspicious of anyone who wasn't French. Most of the memeres and peperes still act that way. if you make a statement and they don't "get it" right away, they act offended because that's how they were trained. If someone said something you didn't understand, you were to assume they were making fun of you. Because of the culture of secrecy, alcoholism was rampant and so was child abuse including incest and molestation. Quit being nostalgic for something that never was!
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Your hatred for french canadians is apparent. The french immigrants did keep to themselves because of the discrimination against them. BIG
difference between them and the Somali immigrants is they did not receive handouts and actually worked hard despite the discrimnation. And
your accusations of rampant alcoholism and child abuse are unfounded, it was no more prevalent than any other culture living here.
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Here...I posted my comment at 12:58 PM....when there wasn't a lot of comments here....I come back a few hours later and my comment got "bumped" to the end....And what is going on Pirate?....Looking for a hook-up with someone here?....I notice a conversation going on here with you and....well....you know who I mean...LOL
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"- O.K.... Yer a Tow-Truck..... Happy now???"
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Oh this strange new world is so confusing and alien to us!! All these rules and laws how would we know, We can't park here or there, we can't Drive like that, OH we are supposed to stop at those lights,we can't beat our wives or children, we can't roam the streets in gangs assaulting random people.We did not know we could not do all these things in America. This place is so strange and different from where we came from please be patient and understanding. Many Blessing to Mohammed, Praise Allah.
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HAHAHAHA!!! You sound like the unfrozen caveman lawyer from SNL!!! Great skit!!! LMFAO!!
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Good job, Ben.
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It’s time to take of the kid gloves. There is no doubt that a large number of Somali’s in this Country arrived as refugees. Those days are over. They are no longer refugees. They are members of the community and need to start acting like it. There seems to be a disconnect between respect for the community and law and a sense of entitlement. I have a great deal of empathy for the atrocities that brought many Somali’s to our shores. However, my empathy is fading and I am now expecting that they assimilate into THEIR new Country of choice.
Hold onto your Somali identity and religious beliefs but join the rest of us in a show of community. I see the words “racism” and “racist” being tossed around far too freely. This is no way appears to be “racist”. It feels more like a group of people have decided that the rules the rest of the neighborhood live by don’t apply to them. They do. They apply to all of us.
I love the idea of the infusion of culture and color into our communities. I love the idea of the expanding world exposure we get with each growth spurt of immigrants and non WASP residents to our area. It betters us all.
Part of the problem in my estimation is the unwillingness of the new arrivals to assimilate and adapt their culture into our existing culture and the overwhelming willingness for the natives to give up the existing culture as to pacify the new arrivals. Not allowing school kids to have a Halloween or Christmas party is obscene. I am not a practicing Christian but would not ever advocate the elimination of the grade school Christmas party. People who don’t know to shut their mouths when the National Anthem is playing or being performed is obscene. Referring to The President of The United States of America by his surname only, instead of as President Obama or President Bush is obscene.
It is not okay to be politically correct for the sake of being politically correct. We are America. We are Americans. This is how it is done here. If doing it the Somali way was superior it wouldn’t be a Country of tribes and tribal wars with a near complete lack of law and order and respect for the human condition. It is time for our Somali neighbors to start adapting their traditional lifestyles into the existing community. It is what our grandparents did, it is what their parents did, it is what some of our parents did and some of us had to do. We brought our baggage with us, we adapted what made sense to adapt and we adopted new ideals and practices and we left a lot behind. That’s life. That’s why we are successful as a Nation.
It’s not a mistake that we are the youngest Nation on the planet but yet the most powerful. Even now, as we muddle through high unemployment, financial adversity, housing busts, and so on is there a place on earth that any of us would rather be? It is the commitment to the idea of the USA that has made it possible. Even during these adverse times we are united as one.
We are one Nation acting in unison represented by a bevy of nationalities and religions. We cannot be a bevy of nationalities and religions all going in their own direction acting in their own interest and still expect to reach our common goal. It is time to start expecting the Somali members of our community to start acting like they are members of the community at large. Enough quarter has been given. It’s time for the rubber to hit the road and for the immigrants to adopt us as we have adopted them.
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The parrot sez, "They're either Americans or they ain't. And if they ain't, they should go back to their native land." And that's coming from a liberal.
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Who, at the SJ thought it was a good idea to bombard us with those intrusive drop down advertisements? The place has become a mine field of annoyance.
(I know, I know; If you don't like it, go somewhere else. Heard it all before.)
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Thank You, Thank You, Thank You, Pirate. I thought my laptop caught some virus or ad-thingy. I was seriously thinking I was going to have to send it in for servicing to get rid of it. This is way, way out of hand. It is one thing when those ads pop-up like pop-tarts infront of the pointless articles, quite another when they keep doing their jack-in-the-box routine in front of intelligent blogging. Makes me want it to be my turn to WTF.
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Roger that, DW
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these neighbors WANT to fight. They want the mosque closed, so of course they need to let the violators keep violating. Otherwise , why wouldn't they CALL A TOW TRUCK?
I agree, there are serious issues all over the city with trespassing, jaywalking, kids blasting through intersections 2 on a bike, brats playing in the street. If you would just call a tow truck, 99% of these problems would go away. They do it because they can. The next generation will not behave this way, so why are you wasting timer and energy? CALL A TOW TRUCK. I was astounded that the City Council allotted a whole hour to that ranting maniac, and then let him take an extra hour on top of that!
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bro, just call a dang tow truck.
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"WTF"......The parrot thinks it means "wash the floor". Keeps saying it isn't his turn. Dumb bird.
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You removed some comments here for "racist and hateful statements"....White Power and KKK Shirts aren't "racist statements?".....and all the "bickering" going on, back and forth, people making comments about someone else's post isn't "hateful?"...Read some of them..I am a bit offended at some of them...There's a fine line to draw when it comes to one's religion...The comments that are being made back at "Madeleine", to me, are hateful...I never "assume" anything....someone commented that they "assumed" something when responding to one of Madeleine's comments...I have said this before...and I'll say it again...The Somalian's are here to stay...They are not going anywhere...I do feel bad for the neighbors here that have to put up with what's going on in there neighborhood and in there own yards when it comes to the Somalian's "Mosque"...THIS should not have even made it this far...If a stranger were to park on my property or block my driveway, I would first call the police...then the tow company....If I know that "Joe Blow" is throwing "litter" on my property, your damn straight I would take pictures of it...and then call the police...Who isn't doing there job here?
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Well so much for freedom of speech because my comment was removed for tell the truth about the way most of the peeps in the STATE OF MAINE THINK about these people and how there is NO reguard for others property or rights. What is needed is for the new governor do to is cut off the welfare for people that are not residents of the State for at leasy 1 yr. then we'll see a big difference.
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It just occurred to me that if, say the State, decided to start deleting sections of articles from the Sun Journal, Preaves would probably be screaming FREEDOM OF THE PRESS, my Constitutional Rights, louder than anyone else. Funny how it makes such t a difference who's Consitutional Rights are getting SQUASHED.
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Preaves doesn't have to scream - that case has lo-o-o-ng been decided.
Where the hell you been, armymom - out cleaning latrines??? You don't even know about your own freedoms - what the hell kind of American are you??
Better bone up on some U.S. Supreme Court decisions - Gitlow v. New York, 268 U.S. 652 (1925) being the prime one here.
That decision by SCOTUS ruled that the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution extended the reach of certain provisions of the First Amendment—specifically the provisions protecting freedom of speech and freedom of the press—to the governments of the individual states.
In other words, the state can't come in and delete sections of the paper. By the way - you can thank the ACLU for assisting lead plaintiff on that one.
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You're on a roll, today, armymom
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Even better would be terminating welfare for everyone who is not a US Citizen. Green card, visa of any kind doesn't matter, not a US Citizen, NO public assistance. If these people did not know that they could come here for a free ride, they would not come.
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If you want or claiom to be an American, at least learn what the Constitution and Bill of Rights are all about.
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JUST HAVE THEN ALL TOWED AWAY!!! EMMM can you smell the tires burning!!!
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JUST HAVE THEN ALL TOWED AWAY!!! EMMM can you smell the tires burning!!!
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Don't Tow - Giv'em Dog Crap To Go
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The difference is pretty straightforward. I used to drive a tow truck and resolving disputes between property owners and drivers was always interesting.
Any property owner who has had to have an illegally parked vehicle removed will attest to this: "It's a civil matter." The police will not get involved. Sure, if the tow operator feels uncomfortable, the police might be summoned to deter violence. That would be extent of their assistance, though.
I'm pretty sure the city will _only_ have your vehicle towed if it is blocking a public right of way. That's it. So if you were to park lengthwise across two handicap spaces, you will get a very nasty ticket, but your car will not be towed. Other jurisdictions probably have much different laws.
If a car is parked in an unauthorized manner, it is the landowner who is the judge of this. The landowner has sole discretion on having the car removed from his property. In fact, there is a disclaimer signed between the tow operator and the landowner granting permission to take possession of the car.
The only thing that will happen if Mr. Theriault elects to have these illegally parked vehicles removed is the conflict will be transferred out of the public eye. When the owner of the vehicle learns that the charges to have his car released top $100, tempers will flare in dramatic fashion. I would like to see the Sun Journal covering that. Be sure to bring an interpreter.
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My sister lived in Falls Church, VA in the late 70s when the Vietnamese boat people where brought into Falls Church and the surrounding area. Whole housing complexes where cleared of American Citizens to accommodate them. They were setup in business at taxpayer expense. From then on the area went into rapid decline. Within six months the Vietnamese youth gangs were roaming and they were a gentle people not like the muslims who promise to" bleed us with a thousand tiny cuts in our financial sector and by fear." My sister with her own successful barbar shop and the rest of the Americans living or with businesses in the area were quickly forced to close their businesses and move away under the onslaught of vandalism, robberies, assualts and murders committed by the Vietnamese refugees the city welcomed. These Somali's are doing their part to bleed us with a thousand tiny cuts in our financial sector and by fear with their taking of our tax dollars and terrorizing American Citizens right here in Lewiston and Auburn.
Enough!!!!
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Life's a beech and then you die.
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Yeah, but Tonto's revenge is alive and well. I'ts called TOBACCO.
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...and Mohegan Sun.
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Fed-up do you even live in the lewiston/auburn area?? Have you seen how these people park????? I ask you to drive down lower lisbon st and just see how many of the somali vehicles are parked illegally and sticking out into the road. As for Denis showing his firearm he ONLY did so once he felt threatened because a 2nd somalian was circling around him. And it all happened on Mr. Theriault's property. You keep saying we need to be more tolerant of them however I have NEVER heard you say that their elders at the mosque need to be preaching they need to be respectful of us!!!!!! We do not block their driveways or park on their property or demand help from them so dont sit there preaching to us about how WE need to be more accepting of them WITHOUT encouraging them to be trying to help correct the situations either. It take 2 to fight it ALSO takes 2 to find a common ground. So for everyone who continues to post on here that we need to be more forgiving and we need to be more accepting and we need this n that how bout you spend as much breath n time preaching and posting that the somali community needs to do alot more as well to get their community to be more respectful and understanding.
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Well stated, fedupinlewiston
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The city of Lewiston will just probably buy Elmer Berry's building tear it down and build a parking garage for the Somali's and their little mosque.
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Don't Tow - Giv'em Dog Crap To Go
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As you so often do, Ben; I think you just nailed it.
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Maybe it could be used for public parking by everyone. Most of the people that live in that area have no place to park come winter time. Great idea, Ben.
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Never happen. It will be designated for Somali's only and anyone else will find their property cleaned out of their vehicle and their vehicle vandalized to the point of worthlessness.
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What a shameful bunch. You folk never cease to amaze me. Here it is the day before Thanksgiving and the lynch mob is out in force. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, come one come all to the greatest show of racisim and bigotry to ever be seen in the North East. The vulchers from the good old State of Maine will be performing their dastardly deeds per-usual. The subject was about a few Somali people parking where they shouldn't and now it is a full-bore attack against the whole Somali community. When will you all learn these people are not going anywhere. Get over it and learn to communicate properly instead of shaking your fists or showing your guns as a means of power. It will get you nowhere folk. Just remember, they can shake their fist and carry guns too. You're all on your way to creating a war. Heck, why don't you all smarten the heck up and act like people instead of animals.
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If we did start a war, would someone else take them?
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It only becomes about racism when the libs with the bleeding hearts bring up the matter of race.
I't's about owning property in Lewiston and having this property being used without the owner's pemisssion. The owner has his rights and he has the right to defend this property. These people own nothing and therefore do not relate to property ownership and the responsibilities that go with it. The park on Theriault's property illegally? Tow 'em away and make them WALK THE PLANK!!!
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The Francophobes have been replaced by Racists......
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Racist is so frequently used frivolously these days that it has really lost its meaning. I don't even get bothered by the term anymore. Think I'm a racist? Think away....who cares. Opinions are opinions and in the case of Theriault vs. the Somali mosque goers, it's not racism. How about labling the Somalis racists for violating the property rights of a white man? See how ridiculous that sounds? See how ridiculous racist sounds in reference to this whole story?
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Do you think there would be all of this Tempest in a Teapot if we were talking White mainline Christians parking their cars there?
Of course not. And they are just as big of block-heads who feel as entitled to any parking spot they can grab. BTDT and had to deal with them in another town and time.
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If one will peruse the screen, it will be revealed that the first use of the word "racism" was used by Madeleine in her 5:40 am post.
However, I doubt that there would be such a clamor were the illegal parkers non-Somalians, but I doubt that the situation would go without some sort of conflict, but perhaps not to this level.
Let's face it, matters involving Somalis in L/A DO get the juices of humanity flowing. Probably don't have those problems in E. Boothbay, eh?
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The natives get very restless in their shacks and trailers when we PFA's (People From Away) come in, pay taxes, and wish to have a voice in our governance......
Boothbay (in which the Village of East Boothbay, along with Trevett, Barter's Island - where one can get married, then divorced in Cumberland County yet still remain brother and sister - along with many other little small boroughs, burgs, and burps - doesn't have a PD as does the Town of Boothbay Harbor. Our Selectmen tell us that they get all of the crime information that they need (not from regular Lincoln County Sheriff's Reports - which they got none) but from reading the Boothbay (Fishwrap) Register. Needless to say, it came to them as a surprise when our local State Representive had his car shot up right before the election (pellet gun) and they didn't know about it as the paper didn't get have it, and they don't bother talking to the Sheriff's Office. No Andy and Barney show here.... But they all jumped on cue when a few residents complained about a newly installed 'Speed Bump' that the outgoing Town Manager had installed and they were aware of for months. The one thing they are good at is counting votes. The Chairman of the Board of Selectman stocks shelves at the local Hannaford - he tells me he stands on his record - I answered: "That's the Problem!"
We had a tavern for a bit in an area in which the zoning forbid taverns. Code Enforcement Officer at the time obviously never saw a tavern he didn't like. Neighborhood grouches such as myself complained about it to no avail and warned that there were problems. One of the bartenders wrapped himself around a tree as a parting gesture one evening, and we weren't allowed to comment on his demise at a Selectmen's Meeting. Nothing like the "Good Ol' Boys' Network.
Think I'm a pain here?? You should see me in person..... They shudder when I come in to meetings and ask me if I'm on my meds.....LOL
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I stand corrected; makes L/A look pretty dull.
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What troubles me the most about this story and subsequent comments are "hands on weapons" and "fingers on triggers". I'm getting a vision of Theriault or Job Public ending up in prison for assault or worse. Violence is not the answer people. Put those guns back in their safes.
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If they threaten him in any way, he has the right to defend himself and protect his property.
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Was your hand on your sword when you wrote that?
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You been peeking in my windows again?
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My fear is that some folk who like to pack are looking for an opportunity to "defend" themselves.
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According to last weeks Rumford Falls Times, a sister paper to the Sun Journal, a woman spent 46 minutes standing in her kitchen with a gun aimed at the door prepared to defend herself, while waiting for police to respond to her 911 call made as the result of a failed home invasion attempt. Would you call that "looking for an opportunity to defend themselves?" Not so long ago this paper printed one article disclosing a long string of violent attacks by Somali gangs on area resident in the area of the Park, attacks this paper declined to report when they occured and this paper has declined to report on any of the subsequent attacks, if any of those who havebeen attacked by these roaming gangs had defended themselves would you have said they were "looking for an opportunnity to defend themselves?" I should hope the answer to both of these questions is an emphatic NO. We are not obliged to submit to acts of violence or trespass of our homes or businesses nor to submit to acts of violence against our persons by those we showed kindness to by welcoming them into our country, providing them with food, shelter, an automobile, educational opportunities, and a business. Have you not heard the saying, "bite the hand that feeds you?" These people give it a whole new meaning. They don't want to just bite, they want to kill.
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That's true and often a matter of concern. But, if a person goes through the hassle of getting himself legally permitted to conceal carry, then, he should not hesitate to exercise ALL of his legal rights in the event of a real threat of bodily harm to himself or loved ones. I'm not sure I agree, though, that all "packers' are out looking for a fight.
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"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
Robert A. Heinlein.
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I guess this would be the appropriate place to say Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
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While Frank Sinatra sings, "Stormy Weather", the flies and the spiders get along together.....
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This is not good PR for the Somali community, but then again, from my experiences with them on Lisbon Street, where I worked for 20+ years until we moved in 2008, I don't think it's in their mindset to care. They have a 100% focus on their rights, though, and know how to play the race card to their advantage. Sadly, our city officials go along with this BS instead of treating them as they would anyone else, which in the end actually makes things worse. Everyone wants to be treated the same. No preferential treatment.
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They double park park in front of store fronts park around on corners painted yellow with no fear of getting tickets why is that? Laws are made for all to follow
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where ever these people are they DO do whatever they want!! they cut me off in traffic withpout a blinker ALL THE TIME!
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Former City Councilor Denis Theriault, owner of two buildings on the west side of Bartlett Street, just north of Adams Avenue, told councilors he shouldn't have to work so hard defending his property and paying his taxes POLICE should be call with the tow truck to give two tickets one for tresspassing and parking park your car by the hospital and see how fast you get a ticket but park at Denis Theriault no ticket why not ?
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Over which the "No Parking" signs do not have the 'Force of Law' - at least that is the way it worked in Illinois. The property owner would have to sign authorization for the tow, and would be liable for the cost of removal. It may be a completely different matter here. Perhaps someone who has the facts could enlighten us.
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Bosco has made extremely valid points here. I also like the end of the presentation when Theriault quoted from a 2008 Mayoral e-mail in which Larry Gilbert had advised all the Councillors that the defiant, unsupervised Somali youths need to be dealt with soon, and that within 2 years if nothing is done, he thinks they'll be wreaking untold havoc to the point of probably even taking lives. Theriault added that when his Mayor... a long time ex-Police Chief and former U.S. Marshall makes a statement like this, he takes it VERY seriously! Mayor Gilbert was speechless when confronted with his own words. He demanded the e-mail then and there, even paused the meeting which was running way overtime to read it, in a feeble attempt to put his own quote into some (more diversity loving) context, but couldn't find any. His red face was priceless. I would love to see that e-mail make print. It would be interesting to see how the Mayor, our cheerleader for diversity, really feels!
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Ace reporter Scott Taylor went to Mayor Gilbert, who provided the e-mail for us. Here you go:
Instant Chat sent from Mayor Larry Gilbert in July 2008
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in its entirety some of the quotes were cut off at the end.
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Why do you care? Your in New York.
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Seems like the sun journal wanted to minimize and sanitize this issue. Quite simply, where in the story is the subject of the city exploring building them a parking lot. Where in the story is the matter of dumping human feces on Mr Berry's property. How about the part of the comment of their representative saying it is not their problem. That is the problem, these people are scamming the city. The state closes a market for being filthy, so the meat gets delivered to the mosque. Anyone else would be in jail, they constantly get a pass. They come here and abuse every system. They should be treated fairly and equally, no special rights. Wait and see, one of two will happen, they will get a taxpayer funded parking, or a taxpayer funded move to another lot. How about the city council president being their representative. Mr Morgan used extremely poor judgement, of course instead of watching for the taxpayer, he is watching his bottom line, no where in the story is Mr Morgans role, the term whitewash applies, of course that term will color me a racist also.
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How odd, rude, and disrespectful for anyone to continue to trespass on private property, especially after the property owners have it made clear that it is not allowed. This is no different than some stranger coming up my driveway and parking in my yard without my permission. Where is law enforcement, and why aren't they helping with this?
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Maybe Larry Raymonds can send them a letter telling them not to park there.
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Well, I don't believe that anyone should be allowed to violate someone elses rights. No one has the right to park on private property without the owners permission. Allowing anyone to break the law is a green light for everyone else to do it too. We all have laws that govern over us, and no matter the color of our skin or religion we have to abide by the law. So if laws are being broken then this is a matter for the police. Why can't everyone just be respectful of one another. If the Somali people have nowhere to park so they can attend their services at their mosque, then something needs to be done to afford them a place to park. I attended St. Patricks church for years. There was times that we too could not find a place to park and had to park the next street over and walk. It was an inconvinence, yet, attending Mass was that important to our family and I parked where I could and we walked the rest of the way. I would hope this is not just more racisim against the Somali community....because that would really be low. All these people want to do is worship God.
"Councilors asked Theriault, Berry and city staffers to meet with the members of the mosque, scheduling a meeting by this Friday."??? This is the first thing that should of happened, not the last!
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Have you lost your mind? "If the Somali people have nowhere to park so they can attend their services at their mosque, then something needs to be done to afford them a place to park." No, something does not need to be done to afford them a place to park anymore than anything did or was afforded for you to have a place to park to attend St Patricks. You walked three streets because attending Mass was that important to you. You did not park illegally on someone else's property. You did not vandalize someone else's property when they told you, no, you can't park here. You did not threaten the neighbors of your church when they did not allow you to park on their property. No, the Somali's chose a poor location for there mosque with inadaquate parking which they knew about if only by the terms of their CONDITIONAL license and in their typical fashion have proceeded to to bully, threaten, intimidate, and terrorize the neighbors who don't see that conditional license as expire soon enough after this treatment.
Madelaine, I will assume that when you go to Mass you intend to partake of the sacrament of communion. I will also assume that you understand that before you partake of this holy sacrament you are required to examine your heart and repent/atone for any sins. You therefore are going to do your best not to break the law or have wrong thoughts even as you go to participate in the Mass and partake of Holy Communion. That is what the way of Catholic teachings after all. Not only getting along with your neighbors and showing respect for the law but, actually showing kindness and charity is expected of Catholics participating in Holy Communion, this is encouraged even in the Mass itself, though most fail to recognize it these days with the collections before communion to which are to aid the church, which is all its members, in its work to care for those in need. The same is true of Protestant denomination. The Jewish Community is even more extreme since they do not have the Christ to atone for their sins, they are even more careful with everything they do knowing they carry it to the grave. Pagans are ultra careful as well about every act they do not only against other people and in regards to the law and things, they will pick up a spider or bug and take it outside and set it free rather than kill it!
Islam is not like any of these other religions which are all what would be called benevolent. Islam is violent, jealous, disrespectful and terrorizing. Muslims don't seek to go to services having gotten along with their non-muslim neighbors; their religion calls for them to strike down the infidels. They get points for doing harm to the infidels, not for getting along and abiding by the laws of the land in which they live. They are all striving to get to their version of heaven and earn their virgins which is by the harm, death and destruction of the infidels.
Anyone who is not a muslim is an infidel and Americans are considered the worst infidels of all.
Madelaine, neither the City nor the neighbors owe the attendees of this Mosque anything but access to the front door and occupancy for 98 people at a time. They are not owed 98 parking spaces on the neighbors privately owned property at the attendees convenience and certainly are entiteled to neither vandalize neighbors property nor terrorize the neighbors.
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The first thing to understand is that there is only one race—the human race. Caucasians, Africans, Asians, Indians, Arabs, and Jews are not different races. Rather, they are different ethnicities of the human race. All human beings have the same physical characteristics (with minor variations, of course). More importantly, all human beings are created in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:26-27). God loved the world so much that He sent Jesus to lay down His life for us (John 3:16). The “world” obviously includes all ethnic groups.
God does not show partiality or favoritism (Deuteronomy 10:17; Acts 10:34; Romans 2:11; Ephesians 6:9), and neither should we. James 2:4 describes those who discriminate as “judges with evil thoughts.” Instead, we are to love our neighbors as ourselves (James 2:8). In the Old Testament, God divided humanity into two “racial” groups: Jews and Gentiles. God’s intent was for the Jews to be a kingdom of priests, ministering to the Gentile nations. Instead, for the most part, the Jews became proud of their status and despised the Gentiles. Jesus Christ put an end to this, destroying the dividing wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:14). All forms of racism, prejudice, and discrimination are affronts to the work of Christ on the cross.
Armymom, we are all sinners. The day you stand before the throne of judgement...what will your excuse be? Don't you dare point out my faults, before taking a good look at your own. I do go to confession...and your point was? Even more so before I go to church and offer my gift I make a point of forgiving anyone that has offended me, and ask for forgiveness because I have offended others. Isn't that what we are called to do? You will not shame me from doing the will of God. If Jesus walked this earth today I believe he would speak to you as He did to the Pharasisees. Jesus too was attacked and given tricky questions for his kindness, compassion and love for those that the pharisees deemed unworthy. Jesus commands us to love one another as He loves us (John 13:34). If God is impartial and loves us with impartiality, then we need to love others with that same high standard. Jesus teaches in Matthew 25 that whatever we do to the least of His brothers, we do to Him. If we treat a person with contempt, we are mistreating a person created in God’s image; we are hurting somebody whom God loves and for whom Jesus died.
Racism, in varying forms and to various degrees, has been a plague on humanity for thousands of years. Everyone of all ethnicities, this should not be. Victims of racism, prejudice, and discrimination need to forgive. Ephesians 4:32 declares, “Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.” Racists may not deserve your forgiveness, but we deserved God’s forgiveness far less. Those who practice racism, prejudice, and discrimination need to repent. “Present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God” (Romans 6:13). May Galatians 3:28 be completely realized, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
We belong to one another, armymom...so it is our responsibility!
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My point was, you have to take people from where they are not where you are. I am sure you believe every work from the Catholic/Christian Bible you just reprinted. I can also guarantee you that there is not a single pagan or Muslim that believe a single word of it and not a Jew who would believe a single word of the of the New Testament. I was not judging you in any way, this was a lesson in comparative religion attempting to show you that you cannot impose your beliefs on others in what you how you expect them to behave. You said that you were Catholic, attended St Patricks and would park a considerable distance in order to attend Mass it was so important to you. Those statements indicate that you are likely to adhere to a certain code of conduct and perform certain rituals, i.e. repent/atone for sin in preperation of participating in the Holy Sacrements, that was not a judgement of you. Same applies to the pagan's picking up spiders and other insects and taking them outside or in winter to a basement instead of squishing them, pagans don't kill even the smallest most annoying creatures like mosquitos. I am not judging, it is just part of their religious set of beliefs and practices. If I were to attend Mass with you, I would respect your desire for peaceful contemplation and serenity enroute to service and not do anything to provoke distress or anxiety. I would be sure to keep conversation light and to a minimum. I would not be screaming at other drivers, encouraging you to break the law, or cursing, I would be showing respect. If I were to be going to a mosque with a muslim,obviously I would not have any concern of offending my host by screaming at other motorists (the infidels), cursing (death to them, they should all be killed anyway), and breaking the law is more points earned towards those virgins(Allah). My previous post Madelaine, I am sorry to disappoint you, was not about you specifically, but rather a comparative religion monologue.
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I'm a pagan and although I know spiders have a place in the universe, I still find them ewwie and quite often do not afford them safe passage from my home.
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You disagree that I'm a pagan or that spiders are eewie?
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What is even sadder, Mac, they disagree with the history of their own religion, or worse and even more likely, they don't even know the history of their own religion.
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Another great post by armom.
C'mon you disagreers; chime in. You're making the rest of us look pretty good.
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You need to explain to God and not to me! God's word stands...if you have a problem with that take it up with Him. There are many that claim to believe in God, but what god do you really believe in?...A God that sees it your way?...a god that conforms to the ways of men?....that is a false god. God does not compromise with sinfulness. You're worried about where people park, and how they live...those that have tremendously difficult lives, when you should be more concerned with the conditions of your souls...Don't go there with me, armymom. Shame on you!
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God's word stands...really? Is that why we're entering into the season of Yule, a pagan holiday the early Christians usurped and called the birth of thier lord in order to turn the masses in Euope? Come on...where did the "Christmas" tree come from? Talk to me, Maddy.
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The birth date of the Christian Christ was even altered by three months in order to usurp the pagan holiday. Every single Christian holida usurps pre-existing pagan holiday. Maddy, the majority of the people in the world do not ascribe to the validity of your Bible as being the word of any god. The majority of the population of the world do not accept your Christ and they sure do not have any concern for answering to your god at any time in their lives or after death. Since the majority of the people do not share the same beliefs it is a very good idea to have an understanding of what they do believe and then take them from there. I do not expect anything different from the conduct we see from the Samali's in Lewiston and Auburn because I have taken the time to study their religious beliefs and their history. I know what to expect from my Catholic neighbors, my Jewish neighbors, my Menonite neighbors, my Hindu neighbors, my Pagan neighbors and so on because I have taken the time to study their beliefs and their history. Because I do not impose my beliefs or belief system on my neighbors, but leave them to theirs, I am rarely disappointed, suprised or insulted; I am however prepared.
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Is it me or is someone beginning to unravel?
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Madeleine:
In your 5:40 am post you wrote..."There were times that we too could not find a place to park and had to park the next street over and walk"...
If our Somali brothers and sisters showed the same respect and sense of "responsibility" towards the property of others, there probably wouldn't BE a problem, would there?
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Luke 11:21
When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe;
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Now Nancy 1, if you're going to invoke religion and the Bible into this I have something to say. A talking snake convinces a naked woman to eat fruit in a garden which in turn makes all of mankind evil sinners Then a young Virgin gives birth to a boy who during his lifetime performs miracles. He is then executed and like a vodoo priest rises from the dead. Hum it all makes perfect sense if you believe in cults.
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Do you also assume that because someone can quote Shakespeare they are English? I am an atheist. I believe that religion is the root of much evil in the world.
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Heck, if you understand Shakespeare quotes as well as you understand bible verses you're in big trouble. Ma'am you had no understanding as to what the verse you posted meant. I'm starting to believe that you are a little confused in a whole lot of areas in life. Gain some understanding and educate yourself before you speak. There is no way in heck you're an atheist. The athiest pride themselves on their intelligence. Ma'am what can I say, you definetly lack in that department.
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Now you've hurt my feelings - you know I really care about your opinions. lol
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Luke 11:14-26 Christ's thus casting out the devils, was really the destroying of their power. The heart of every unconverted sinner is the devil's palace, where he dwells, and where he rules. There is a kind of peace in the heart of an unconverted soul, while the devil, as a strong man armed, keeps it. The sinner is secure, has no doubt concerning the goodness of his state, nor any dread of the judgment to come. But observe the wonderful change made in conversion. The conversion of a soul to God, is Christ's victory over the devil and his power in that soul, restoring the soul to its liberty, and recovering his own interest in it and power over it. All the endowments of mind of body are now employed for Christ. Here is the condition of a hypocrite. The house is swept from common sins, by a forced confession, as Pharaoh's; by a feigned contrition, as Ahab's; or by a partial reformation, as Herod's. The house is swept, but it is not washed; the heart is not made holy. Sweeping takes off only the loose dirt, while the sin that besets the sinner, the beloved sin, is untouched. The house is garnished with common gifts and graces. It is not furnished with any true grace; it is all paint and varnish, not real nor lasting. It was never given up to Christ, nor dwelt in by the Spirit. Let us take heed of resting in that which a man may have, and yet come short of heaven. The wicked spirits enter in without any difficulty; they are welcomed, and they dwell there; there they work, there they rule. From such an awful state let all earnestly pray to be delivered.
http://bible.cc/luke/11-21.htm
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Lol...That even got a cackle out of the parrot.
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disrespectful and terrorizing"
Then the members of the mosques would have no problems clearing out parking areas as we cleared out Fallujah.
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If the locals have anything near the weaponry you had in Fallujah, we've got BIGGER problems than we think.
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Great point, armymom
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they are not here yet. I think I passed a number of them waiting at the laundry for their sheets, white power, and KKK shirts to be pressed. Got to look presentable when you are making an a$$ or yourself.
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which goes to show those agree/disagree buttons are useless unless Patti fixes the problem. I was on here at 2am and watched as someone voted time and time again. So I emailed Patti with what I was watching them do and boy I would have loved to watch their jaw drop when they discovered that you weren't so clever after all. Hopefully Patti will fix the problem or eliminate the buttons. I could not believe someone could stop so low but then when your called out as a racist or bigot it has to hurt. The man/woman in the mirror at 2am. hmmmmmmm who could it have been. Oh and yes most of those agree votes are from me just to let you know upfront not sneak around in the early hours of the morning. I have been trying to think who on this board is always bringing up agree/disagree ratios WTP I can't think of anyone offhand, can you? This is not a popularity contest, and I could care what you think of me but......... I don't.
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NO MENTION OF PUTTING DOG CRAP IN/ON THE VEHICLES....
... I remember somebody did this once on Bartlett Street.
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You see white power; some see property owner's rights. You probably don't own property, so you may have trouble grasping the concept.
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rights issue. You don't own from the shoulder of a road, where the pavement ends. You may think you do but I assure you, you don't. Roads have what is called easements, they are established early on and are still valid to this day. Some roads are x rods wide and others are y. Check out section 3.02 in this pdf and you will see what I mean. And to answer your questions I own considerable land and have been involved in road right of way issues in the past. Some with the city when they wanted to widen the road and others with neighbors who did not want the road widened. What the neighbors found was it did not matter what they wanted it was up to the city, state or town to do what they wanted within the legal boundaries of the road.
http://www.ci.lewiston.me.us/clerk/masterpolicies/079-StreetDesignAndCon...
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Years ago when we lived in Lewiston we had a car that parked directly in front of our driveway. This car blocked our complete driveway. The thing is, there was no cars in front or behind it. This car belonged to a young man that became a politician later on in years,,,and not a very good one. When we arrived late that night it was impossible to get into the driveway so we could park in our garage. So we waited . Finally we called the LPD and they came to assist, so we thought. They told us there was not a thing we could do, because it was a public street. You are absolutely right, xyz. :)
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