Health care debate

When Republicans talk about the new health care reform law, they talk about jobs, taxes, budget deficits and the Constitution.

Let’s talk about health care.

Until the health care reform law began giving people access to health insurance, a quarter million Mainers could not afford it or qualify for it. Those are all working-age people and their children. If Republicans succeed in destroying the law, those numbers will grow.

The uninsured still won’t get the preventive care, miraculous diagnostics, or early interventions that the insured get.

Now let’s talk about jobs, taxes, budget deficits.

Uninsured Mainers get sick more often, go undiagnosed more often, suffer more, recover more slowly, and become disabled more often than the insured. The health care they eventually receive (because it comes late) does them less good and costs us all more. They lose more in wages than the insured. As a result, the tax base is reduced, while the government has to pay more in entitlements than if everyone had access to health care. Government deficits grow.

Why are Republicans in favor of that?

Now let’s talk about the Constitution.

Sens. Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins, Gov. Paul LePage, and Attorney General Schneider all now say they think the individual mandate in the law is unconstitutional. But the individual mandate was originally a Republican idea, and when it was, they were all in favor of it. So, what’s changed?

And why don’t they care whether Mainers are able to get health care?

James Parakilas, Lewiston

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Displaying comments, from newest to oldest

George Blanker's picture

People die all the time

Jason, here you go, you said you were looking for this type of work.. death panel.
Gov. Jan Brewer needs some help I would bet.
She could use extra help picking witch ones get saved and which ones are not cost effective.
Good work when you can find it. :(

Jason's picture
verified

Death panels questions

Where does one go to sign up to be on a death panel?
Do I need previous Death Panel experience? Is there an intern program, or do I have to start on Mildly Ill panels?

Do I need to bring tools, or does someone else kill them off? And what should I bring? 9mm? Sword? Galoshes?

Do people need to be sick, or can I render a decision on the guy who just cut me off?

Lil's picture
verified

Arizona

If you're an Arizona republican, you're automatically on the death panels. People in need are dying because of gop budget cuts.

Wayne Back's picture

People in need are dying

[This comment has been removed by the administrator]

Lil's picture
verified

2nd person denied Arizona transplant coverage dies

"A second transplant candidate denied coverage because of state budget cuts has died, and hospital officials say the cutbacks "likely" were to blame."

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/01/05/20110105arizona-second...

taxpayer's picture

People die all the time

People die all the time because they drive a Kia instead of a Mercedes-Benz. What's your point. Should everyone be upgraded to a Benz? Life isn't fair and the sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be.

George Blanker's picture

People die all the time

Had to say one more thing, on the serious side about taxpayer's comment.

Taxpayer said some real deep words here. This folks, is exactly why we find ourselves where we do today. I think anyway... In health care, and life in general, the rich can always have the best. They also have the most power to influence their surroundings. And they do...

But their is no reason, that for just a little more $$, the Kia could be made to be as safe as the Benz. Might take the government to make a few rules, but then kia could reach it's destination just as safe as the Benz. Wouldn't be as great of a ride as the Benz, but safe means so much, who cares?? Kia is a good car, I see NO GOOD reason it can't go down the road as safe as a Benz. Just like with SS, Medicare, Medicaid, I don't mind paying for that little extra for the well being of my fellow American. And I'm sure not rich...... I don't have a Benz....
Over the last 20 or 30 years the Benz folks have been running the place, setting themselves up better and better. Now it is to the point the middle class is suffering. Middle class is shrinking fast. And you do know, most of the money we are borrowing for the next two years is going for the Bush tax cuts.

preaves's picture
staff

Banned for making threatening

Banned for making threatening comments. If you want to get your account back, you can reapply with a verified account.

lewistonauburnsucks's picture

Sounds to me like another

Sounds to me like another trumped up accusation, since the comment was removed, we can't view it for ourselves. The only thing it may have "threatened" was the LSJ's misguided opinion.

CynicalCitizen's picture

Some of us did have the

Some of us did have the opportunity to see it for ourselves at lunchtime.

While you have no reason to believe my word any more than Ms. Reaves's word, the comment could certainly have been interpreted as a threat of physical violence against the poster 'lil'. It could also have been interpreted as a tongue-in-cheek threat of physical violence.

In any case, at face value it violated the commenting policy, and so—in the absence of a <sarcasm> tag—was subject to the sanctions for violating that policy. Frankly, I don't envy the web editor that portion of her job at all :-(.

preaves's picture
staff

If anyone wants to see the

If anyone wants to see the comment, I would be happy to email it to them.

lewistonauburnsucks's picture

The problem i see is that

The problem i see is that since the editor has "pet posters", there is no consistency to editing comments, banning posters and protecting pet posters. And since there is no consistency, there in turn is really no "policy" because the "policy" can be manipulated to suit the viewpoints of the "chosen ones" who are protected.

dscammon's picture
staff

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lewistonauburnsucks's picture

The web editors criteria for

The web editors criteria for banning members sucks. She protects certain posters to all ends of the earth and throws others out on the drop of a dime, (many times for incidents that are rather mild or when their opinion doesn't agree with hers or the posters she protects). So as a result this forum is ripe with double standards.

Wayne Back's picture

What should you bring?

Follow the advice of our illustrious president. Don't bring a sword to a musket fight.

George Blanker's picture

Death panel questions

I've heard, you don't need previous experience. You just need to have at least 1 foot in the alternate universe:)

Wayne Back's picture

The reason Mainers could not ...

...and still can't afford health insurance is all the mandates the state created in the early '90s. The new Republican majority wants to repeal the mandates to allow once again competition to lower prices and create more flexible policies. Yes, that path is not certain of complete success, but the path we've been on is an utter disaster.

On the federal level, ObamaCare has done nothing to make insurance more affordable and more accessible. When (if) more of it kicks in, prices will go up, coverage will go down and providers will become scarce - and we'll look back at this time as "the good old days".

Wayne Back's picture

I notice you didn't dispute

I notice you didn't dispute the phrase "prices will go up". Since no one understands ObamaCare, not the authors and certainly not the fools who voted for it, there's no guarantee of anything. If the number 30 million makes you feel good, go for it - but most of them will get government subsidy when they "buy" the insurance policy. That subsidy comes from those of us who still pay federal income tax.

Whatever the number of new users, ObamaCare pays lip-service only to "creating" more health-care workers and providers. All users will get distributed to existing providers - care will be rationed at the very least by bureaucrats deciding who really needs what care. Coverage will go down.

Like Medicare, ObamaCare tries to limit and reduce what providers can charge for each service. When doctors and clinics starts losing money, some of them will go out of business rather than serve as a government mandated charity. Providers will become scarce.

Lil's picture
verified

prices

So, prices would not go up anyway, regardless of the health care act?

Wayne Back's picture

I didn't expect to hear such

I didn't expect to hear such a pointless non-sequitur until the SOTU this evening.

Of course prices will go up because of inflation, if for no other reason. But ObamaCare will push them up out of sight. Without it, and with a rollback of mandates, costs will go down or, at worst, hold steady.

veritas's picture
verified

Actually the cost of Insurance will push them out of sight.

Costs could go down if we would pursue a single payer system. Republicans have no interest in that, preferring to maintain an 'insurance industry.' So your argument of cost control is moot.

Lil's picture
verified

more customers

With 30 million more new potential customers, "coverage will go down and providers will become scarce?" Oh, okay.

fixit001's picture

Reform is needed as it is

Reform is needed as it is unconstitutional to force any person to buy a public product to exist this is no differant than forcing a person to buy an automobile because the automakers will suffer if we would not so arrest and fine all those who dont buy a car every 5 years, and dont think thats absured as politicians are brought everyday and are more likely to push this forwand if the price is right. NO BEFORE YOU EVEN THINK OF NATIONAL HEALTHCARE YOU MUST CREATE RESONABLE PAY CAPS, AND PROFIT CAPS AMD STOP THE ADS FOR MEDS WHICH IS ONLY DRIVING THE COST OF MEDS HIGHER AND HIGHER, STOP THE INSANE LAWSUITS MEDICAL CARE IS RISKY, and make it illegal for politicians to recieve funds from the medical and law firms ...oh no then they would just about be bankrupt well dont worry they will just go to the oil and gasoline companies and then we can enjoy 10.00 a gallon gas and oil prices.... WE ALL PAY FOR OUR POLITICIANS CORRUPTION!!!!

CynicalCitizen's picture

If it is unconstitutional to

If it is unconstitutional to require a person to buy health insurance (under penalty of a fine), shouldn't the members of the 5th Congress—many of them actual drafters and signers of the Constitution—have been aware of this issue when they passed a law in 1798 requiring all sailors to purchase health insurance (at 20 cents per month withheld from wages) with a corresponding penalty of 100 dollars per ship for non-compliance?

veritas's picture
verified

The TeaTards only resurrect the Founding Fathers

when it is their best interest to do so. Otherwise they could care less.

taxpayer's picture

Nice language.

Nice language.

preaves's picture
staff

Admin warning

Ron,
You know that namecalling isn't allowed. Cut it out.

-p

ConservaMom's picture

ory

Sooo...why was "Ron" not banned? Certainly his comment falls under the "* Defamatory, abusive, obscene, racist, or otherwise hateful" category.

lewistonauburnsucks's picture

LOL, that's what we call the

LOL, that's what we call the Pet Poster Protection Program...only a select few are enrolled and it's currently in the closed enrollment period.

tron's picture

It's called the verified

It's called the verified club, and that has an open ended enrollment. The Coward Club, however, closes in six days. You will not be missded!

Joe Izzo's picture

Missded?? what kind of a word

[This comment has been removed by the administrator]

preaves's picture
staff

Joe, This comment has been

Joe,

This comment has been removed for violating our commenting policy.

Furthermore, I noticed that you've been operating several troll accounts on SunJournal.com and therefore I am banning your account until you are willing to get verified.

Pattie

ConservaMom's picture

What is up with this?? You

What is up with this?? You clearly stated those of us not wishing to get verified have until February 1st to do so; it's still January. And I am SUPER curious as to why some only get "warnings" and others are banned. Objective? Hmmmmm....something stinks at the Sun Journal office. Ohhh...lemme guess...I'm gonna get banned now aren't I?

preaves's picture
staff

My policy has been thus:

My policy has been thus: First a warning, then banned for a week, then banned permanently.

We're turning off anonymous commenting in less than a week, so the window to reapply has passed for people who refuse to get verified.

lewistonauburnsucks's picture

It's nice to see that i'm not

It's nice to see that i'm not the only one that sees this double standard BS that the LSJ demands from its posters who never get warned no matter what they post.

preaves's picture
staff

It's not a double standard,

It's not a double standard, Joe. You've been masquerading as several other people and that's against our rules. Goodbye.

veritas's picture
verified

You can't conceive of a 'typo' - Joe??

What kind of person are you??

If I truthfully answered my own question - methinks I'de have a very long, if not permanent, sabattical from this site.

veritas's picture
verified

10-4

My Bad

Wayne Back's picture

Evidence abounds that

Evidence abounds that "verification" does not improve one's vocabulary. Or did you mean SeaTards? CopTards?

veritas's picture
verified

Odd you didn't reply to me when I destroyed your argument

regarding your allegation about "folks who really could create jobs don't get the break and have to continue throwing cash down the SS rathole."

Seems they're already sitting on Two Trillion $$$ Cash and don't plan on hiring anyone.

http://www.sunjournal.com/comment/73192#comment-73192

But what would I know - that comes from the ultra-liberal Wall Street Journal which is one of Rupert Murdoch's mouthpieces.......

You don't 'debate' - merely propagandize.

tron's picture

No, I believe he's trying to

No, I believe he's trying to find an acceptable way to refer to the anarchists members of society that belong to the tea party. Unfortunately the SJ appears to not allow any reference to them, no matter how hard we try.

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