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Sunday, October 2, 2011
For many years, I have thought that it was too bad that so often someone was killed by a bullet fired by a police officer. It is usually reported that the person was shot in a vital part of the body, as was the man killed recently in Farmingdale — struck in the head and neck.
I wonder if, when officers are trained at the school in Vassalboro, they might be shown how to disable the person with a well-placed shot rather than kill.
I think some thought should be given to this, as often mental problems might be addressed if someone's life could be saved with more care.
Harold A. Andrews, Auburn
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Police Shootings
Sounds like the writer has never been in a situation where there life has been in danger. If a criminal pulls a gun on a officer they should now most likely they will end up seriously hurt or dead. In this situation you do not aim for the limbs he still could shoot or kill you. There is too much of a chance also of a miss, you aim for center mass of the body to take them out. We as a society are becoming too politically correct. The individuals committing the crimes should know there will be consequences for their actions especially violent crime. People need to wake up and stop favoring the criminals and stop second guessing the police officers they all ready have a hard enough job.
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. ...Q: I wonder if, when officers are trained at the school in Vassalboro, they might be shown how to disable the person with a well-placed shot rather than kill.
A: Yes
My guess is that there is an ongoing investigation you could inquire in to for further information un der the freedom of information act . The first thing that is done is that the offier turns in his or her weapon .2 ) they , the officer or officers , are usually placed on administrative leave , 3 ) ask their bosses, inspector generals or police ombudsman or liason officers for further information . Also look in to the use of tazers , billy clubs , pepper spray , proper procedures , and the use of deadly force in the Great State of Maine . The good offices of your state senators and other elected officials can be very helpful with matters like this h th /s, a former police officer trainer in the U S Peace Zcorps - Dr. Dosh , Hawai'i
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.It's not so simple as 'Disabling'
"Shoot to Disable?" Might be nice, but once the decision to use deadly force is made, the reason that force is employed is to remove the threat of imminent deadly force to the officer or another.
Now for the sake of disclosure, I finished up my 'twenty' on the Police Department over 18 years ago - much has changed since then. I worked 'south' of Chicago - not in Chicago - in a town of about 27,000 population - Kankakee, IL; little more populated than Auburn, and smaller than Lewiston. The size of the Department averaged between fifty and sixty officers. The year I left - 1993, Kankakee had 18 murders - I believe the entire State of Maine had 20; so that gives you an idea of what I was coming from. It wasn't exactly a walk in the park - not even Kennedy Park.
During my entire career I can recall only several police shootings of civilians - with two killed. One was attempting to rob a shop-keeper and had a gun drawn on him, and another had stabbed an officer. One officer had been shot and wounded by a woman during a domestic disturbance - but that was it.
That isn't to say there weren't numerous occasions when I was legally justified in using deadly force. There were. But during those occasions I also reasonably believed that I could employ alternative methods to neutralize the threat without immediately escalating to the use of deadly force.
I could give many examples - and I'm sure that, in retrospect, it could be argued 'what if' occurred and I would not have survived my shift. We got a lot of experience, and insight into human nature very quickly on the streets in that city.
Another historical factor to be considered was the government 'De-Institutionalization' of Mental Health patients which occurred during the late 70's and early 80's. Kankakee was (and still is) the home to one of the larger State Mental Hospitals in Illinois; another in Manteno, IL - nine miles away - was closed down. This introduced a large influx of mentally deficient, disturbed, and otherwise ill subjects into a general population unprepared to cope or accept them. They were placed on Social Security, and most boarded in old motels, boarding homes, and a hotel. Many self-medicated on alcohol and drugs, congregating in public places and disturbing ordinary citizens - yet jail was no place for them. Often they would get weapons and become aggressive. Here in Maine we read about Police 'Blowing them away' - we learned other strategies and tactics. And we got good at it. But we had a lot of practice - sometimes daily.
I recall the case in Brunswick where the Officer shot (and killed) the wheel-chair bound subject who reportedly threatened him with a knife. Now I wasn't there, but I've taken guns away from dope-dealers in wheel-chairs without shooting them. Now I understand he didn't have his baton with him - bad move - but blowing him away? C'mon!!! I've been to Cluster-Phuqs before - but that's a real bummer.
And the young Cop in Waldoboro who had two birds in the hand - but decided to chase the third one into the woods in the dark of night - for curfew violation - even knowing who he was.. That's not 'Rocket-Scientist' material there, Skippy; Karma's gonna get ya.....
Maine is one of the 'safest' states in the country - we have the lowest violent crime rate of all 50. But where do we stack up as far as police homicides of citizens? - Right at the national average per capita. What does this tell us? Police shootings are not a factor of citizen criminality or violence - but of Police training and procedure, and that is fairly well standardized nationally. What is taught at Waterville is very similar - tactically - as is what is taught at the remainder of the countries Police Academies. Maine's citizens may be less violent - but Maine's Police are no less.
Just because ya can - doesn't mean you should. And you'll sleep a lot better at night.
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For your clarification of your police experience and thank you for your Navy and Police service. Your insight from being there goes far beyond what I or anybody else could expand on.
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While the letter writer has seen a few too many episodes of the Lone Ranger, Dan's response is pretty sick.
I've learned that when I take someone else's inventory, I'm seeing in them my own worst faults. How about, Dan, would you kill someone for two weeks paid vacation?
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I am not a police officer but from my understanding they are only supposed to use their firearm when their is an imminent threat to themselves or someone else. When that imminent threat is present it would not be appropriate to aim at limbs. No matter what a tv show shows you the best way to hit a target is to aim for center mass because there is less chance of missing and allowing the target to hurt or kill someone innocent with return fire. Disabling and not killing someone with a well placed shot only happens in the movies.
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Mr. Andrews, you've failed to
Mr. Andrews, you've failed to realize that every time a cop murders someone they automatically get several weeks of PAID vacation. AND they are NEVER held accountable because there is NO citizen's review, just an automatic rubber stamp by the AG's office. It's a win-win for the cop.
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Ain't right, Dan
Your assertion that this is the motive for a cop to kill is ridiculous at best. Most cops who have taken another humans life experience a life time emotions that have lead to some taking their own lives.
I'm really surprised at your post. You usually show more common sense.
I'm sure Riml will chime in on this one as he was a cop a has seen more blood shed on the streets of S. Chicago then I could ever imagine.
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.never asserted that there was
never asserted that there was a motive, but merely there isn't any deterrent. I would welcome Ron's viewpoint, since I'm certain his experience deals with some sort of intensive review of all cop shootings.
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Dan, saying that a cop killing someone is a win win situation for him sounded like motive to me. A cop continuing to get paid after such a tragic event while a review is being conducted by the A.G. is our societies way of saying "your innocent until proven guilty". And in my many years living in Maine I've never heard of the A.G.s office being anything but thorough in their investigation of these tragic events.
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Either suspend him without pay, OR keep paying him but make him work for it. Otherwise its a freebie, reward for murdering the public. Remember, the AG's office ALWAYS rules the shootings 'justified.'
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Good God Dan!
After a traumatic event like killing another human I, you, and anybody else, besides Superman, would be a basket case never mind going back to work until the emotional stress has been dealt with. And can you define justifiable homicide vs murder? Dan, you made a dumb, spur of the moment, comment in the wee hours of the morning. Defending it is pointless. I enjoy reading most of your early morning posts, but come on, this one was a stinker.
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Define "Murder" Dan
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well, I define it as taking the life of another unjustly, however, since you were a cop, I'm certain you some legal and restrictive definition for it. C'est la vie.
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Your definition is quite different than both the legal and dictionary ones.
Have you researched either? Or the word 'Unjust?'
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.I am fully aware of the
I am fully aware of the difference between a homicide and a murder. However, in my opinion, when an alledgedly highly trained person shoots someone who isn't, then it's a murder, and I realize that's not PC, but I expect more from law enforcement. I support giving them the right, but expect them to use it only when absolutely necessary, and I don't feel that's what they're doing.
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.Just a thought...
3/22/11 - A total of 162 law enforcement officers died in the line of duty last year, up from 117 in 2009. So far this year, 49 officers have lost their lives, a 20 percent rise from the same time last year.
20 days later, from 49 to 57 killed:
4/11/11 - (CBS News) ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. - The police killings began Jan. 1 with the fatal shooting of a deputy in Ohio. And the violence has continued, reports CBS News justice correspondent Bob Orr.
So far this year, 26 officers have been gunned down - 44 percent more than the 18 shot and killed at this point in 2010.
Law Enforcement Officer Fatalities Preliminary 2011 Numbers April 11, 2011
2011 2010 % Change
57 50 +14%
Gunfire
26 17 +53%
Traffic Incidents
17 23 -26%
Other Causes
14 10 +40%
Please note: These numbers reflect total officer fatalities comparing April 11, 2011 to April 11, 2010.
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.And while you're thinking....
See if you can get some 'stats' for Maine, Bob.
Maine has the lowest violent crime rate of all the States in the Nation - yet Maine Law Enforcement Officers appear to use deadly force at the same rate - per capita - as police nationwide.
Why should that be??? Especially if the citizenry is less violent...
(But the stats I collated on that are about twelve years old - the State hadn't put anything together)
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.There doesn't seen to be...
...a comprehensive report. However, I was able to find an incidence of 13 deadly force investigations by the AG's office from January 2008 to April 2010, an average of 4.3 a year. Seven of the incidents were by town police departments, three by state police, two by county sheriffs and one Indian Township officer. Hope this is helpful.
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Would you like to respond? Login or create a new account. You'll need to verify your account before you can respond.As your last post concerned shootings of LEO's
I was curious if you were able to dig up any info on Maine Law Enforcement Officer's shot...
But as per your posting 13 deadly force investigations over a 28 month period is an average of 5.6/yr - not 4.3 - that's 23% light.
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Not by the words you banter around.....
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If that untrained person were pointing a gun or a knife at you in a threatening way should you shoot him in the foot because he is untrained? Because he is untrained makes him more dangerous and unstable. Dan, give it up, this is getting dumb and dumber.
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