D. Taylor: Fight war to win

I hate war; however, I am not against a just war.

To me there is a big difference between a warrior and a warlord. The brave men and women of the U.S. Armed Forces are the finest and bravest warriors this world has ever seen.

Courageous U.S. troops have spilled their blood in Afghanistan and Iraq, battling terrorists, dictators and thugs. I am disturbed by the way the media is playing up the hype and riling enemies over the recent Quran burning and the U.S. soldier who has been accused of going on a rampage in an Afghanistan village.

Those unfortunate situations are isolated events being reported in an irresponsible way by the media.

Perhaps there would be fewer of those situations if, when the U.S. entered a war, it entered to win. The objective should be to level the enemy with powerful and swift force. However, political correctness and a hypersensitive mentality are defeating U.S. forces faster than bullets.

To me, it is like sending troops into harm’s way with guns that shoot corks attached to strings. Elected officials should be put on the front lines of battle for a day and have their rose-colored glasses crushed by a tank and see how fast their thinking would change.

When U.S. forces fight a war, they should win a war. A victory should be declared and the U.S. flag should be raised and new patriotic songs should be written.

I am proud to be an American.

The Rev. Douglas Taylor, Lewiston

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Comments

Jonathan Albrecht's picture

"Those unfortunate situations

"Those unfortunate situations are isolated events being reported in an irresponsible way by the media." They always are, arn't they when its your side creating the incident. To have a Rev. make excuses for murder is disgusting but not surprising.

Steve  Dosh's picture

D. Taylor: Fight war to win

Rev. 12.03.26 9 pm hst •
Why are we in Afghanistan ?
As a man of the cloth you should know that war is folly . War is a terrible waste of men , material , and is harmful to small children and other living things . War eats it's young . War never proves who is right , just who is left . No one has ever won a war in Afghanistan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan , not even Alezander the Great and his elephants ( and so what if he did , whet did he get for his efforts ? )
Those unfortunate situations in .af are being reported in a responsible way by the media . They are . Truths hurt sometime . Truth generally says nothing about good or bad yet never let the truth be the enemy of the good , Don't turn a blind eye . There are none so blind as those who can not see and none so deaf as those who can not hear . ...the truths
You purport to support our many m/f National Guard troops and other National service memebers in the *.stans and their families back here ? Help bring them home then . Twelve years is plenty long enough now http://vhv-vetshelpingvets.com/
There is an expression they use in Afghanistan that goes , " This snowflake , too , shall pass . " /s, Steve Dosh ( FSO, ret.)

Jason Theriault's picture

A few things

First off, Rev Taylor - kudos on riling up the forum like few others. Double kudos on asking for donations in the thread. Its a rare combination of trolling and philanthropy that you just don't see often. I am very amused by this thread.

That said, I think you shouldn't use the example of the Bales slayings in defending our troops. If that happened her, we would be just as up in arms over the dead kids. I saw a picture of the 2 year old, and there is no excuse.

Also, I don't think serving helps. Bush jr served, and he got us into this mess. Had he finished Afghanistan instead of going into Iraq, we wouldn't be there right now. And we would be in such a better position to deal with Iran.

DOUGLAS TAYLOR's picture

The Jesus Party / Rev. Douglas Taylor

Anyone who questions the significance of the ministry of the Jesus Party can punch in the kew word (The Jesus Party) into the search space. My good works outweigh my poor spelling. God took me from nothing and made me into something.

DOUGLAS TAYLOR's picture

Kew Word. lol

(Kew) Keyword - I spelled it this way for my friend Joanne. I did not want to disappoint her. lol

MICHAEL LEBLANC's picture

The armchair generals ...

... have uncorked their thumbs - the armchair admiral, too.

WWII was the last war the US tried to win - Democrats got us into it, Republicans won it. After that, politics was the commander-in-chief. Democrats got us into Korea and that war is still officially going on. Democrats got us into Viet Nam and Republicans got us out, with our tail between our legs. Grenada went pretty well ...

After that, the tactical aim, D or R, was to make the enemy like us. In all of world history, that aim has never won anything, no matter how just or unjust. Until we learn the futility of that battle plan, we will lose before we start fighting. If we don't learn it, we may as well surrender now. I'm sure all those nasty folks out there will leave us alone if we promise to stay home.

Jason Theriault's picture

Over simplification

First off - "WWII was the last war the US tried to win - Democrats got us into it, Republicans won it."

Really? I'm pretty sure that
A- The Japanese got us into it
B- FDR and Truman were Democrats.

I think a great example of how to fight a war was Gulf War I, but to be fair, the Korean War also fits this mold. And the reason was we weren't seeking to occupy a nation. President Bush stopped our forces from invading Iraq. As we have seen, occupying Iraq is no picnic.

The problem with the occupation model of combat from WWII is that occupation only work when the occupied are scared or crushed. The Soviets crushed the Germans. After the Nazi's brutalized the Russian civilians, the Red Army had no qualms with paying back the German civilians. When faced with Americans or Soviets, of course they loved us. We weren't shipping them to Siberia or straight up killing them.

RONALD RIML's picture

And now we have the 'Armchair' LeBlanc.

The 'Report' was buried..... And how many more were killed and wounded.

Real Generals and Admirals studied the prospect of 'American Victory' in Vietnam and arrived at the conclusion that it was impossible. But we weren't told that. http://www.cdi.org/adm/914/transcript.html

-------------------------------------------------

Mr. SHORR: In a sense, we were told we were fighting communism all over the world, including in Vietnam. Now in 1967 you were asked by the secretary of the Navy to head a team of other admirals to go to Vietnam and assess the war. This was in 1967. What were you conclusions?

ADM LaROCQUE: Well, it was more than just going to Vietnam. We spent eight months, this group of admirals, trying to respond actually to Mr. McNamara's request to the secretary of the Navy, Mr. Nitze, to put this team together, and his instructions to me were simple. 'We're not interested,' he said, 'in how we got into the war, we just want an assessment of what we should do now.'

We assessed the situation in Vietnam and the world situation and it was the conclusion of all of us, unanimous, that there was no way to win that war in Vietnam, absolutely no way.

Mr. SHORR: Why did you come to that conclusion, that it couldn't be won?

ADM LaROCQUE: Well, we just measured it. It was -- It was -- It wasn't just a gut feeling. We postulated mining and found that wouldn't work. We postulated knocking out the rail lines, that wouldn't work. We postulated massive bombing, and that wouldn't work. We postulated using phony money, knocking out the -- the dikes to flood the country. We postulated the use of nuclear weapons, and that didn't work.

Mr. SHORR: Nuclear weapons. Even nuclear weapons?

ADM LaROCQUE: Nuclear weapons wouldn't have won that war because none of the supplies that were used by the Vietnamese were manufactured in Vietnam. You'd kill X number of Vietnamese and the opprobrium in the world would have been intense, but that would have put you nowhere at all because the supplies, the war materiel was coming from Russia -- the Soviet Union and China. And unless you planned to go to war with China or the Soviet Union, then there's no use dropping nuclear weapons. We actually planned it, tried it, and Westmoreland confirms that in his book, the -- A Soldier's Report.

Mr. SHORR: Now Robert McNamara, in his recent book on Vietnam, referred to this report that you came back and --

ADM LaROCQUE: Yes.

Mr. SHORR: -- drew up as, quote, "devastating" --

ADM LaROCQUE: Yes.

Mr. SHORR: -- in the sense of what it said about our inability to win the war. What happened to that report?

ADM LaROCQUE: Well, first of all, let me tell you that when I presented it to the chief of naval operations, and Mr. McNamara, and the secretary of the Navy, all there together, after I presented it, Mr. McNamara took all of our material with him right then and there. Had his aide put the -- all the drafts and everything we'd drawn, the material, under his arm and he said to me on the way out, "This is just the kind of information I need."

I take a much more sympathetic view to Mr. McNamara and his position, because a lot of people don't realize, in the Pentagon, Mr. McNamara knew only what the military was telling him and he had to operate on that basis. And I fear he was not getting full information, any more than our president over this last several years, in the last maybe 10, 12 years, maybe 15 years has been receiving from the CIA. CIA now admits they gave tainted information to the president of the United States which cost us billions. So, Mr. McNamara could only operate on the basis of the information he had and, believe me, he tried.

Mr. SHORR: And he had that information, he had that report, but I think in his book he said the president never saw it.

ADM LaROCQUE: That's right. Well, he -- we made the report to him and the Navy -- Vice Admiral Horatio Rivero, killed it. He wouldn't let me distribute it.

I would also recommend the Naval Institute Press publication "The Wrong War - Why We Lost in Vietnam" by Jeffrey Record. The NIP doesn't publish junk.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

Bunk and hokum.

Pure revisionist history. John McCain was not trying to make the "enemy" like us when he got up on the stage and sang, "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran." I suppose he can plead senility. And do you think President Obama thinks the "enemy" will like us by using torture?

What both parties are doing is making generations of people who hate us. Just like we would hate anyone who killed our folks in their homes. All the Pentagon is doing is making more "nasty folks" and eventually they will strike back. If my daughter bled to death in my arms I would be justified in seeking revenge from her murderer(s). Thousands of parents, civilians leading peaceful lives, have seen the horrible ways their children have died in their arms, bleeding to death, burnt by white phosphorous, raped, mutilated or struck by shrapnel. And children have witnessed their parents being gunned down while shopping in the markets or attending religious services or just trying to lead a normal life.

These people were not our enemies. We are making them so.

RONALD RIML's picture

You may have freedom of speech

But you also exercising your freedom of ignorance.

Study a bit of history, Doug. Looking back over the centuries, at the numerous times that bit of land which is now modern day Afghanistan has been invaded - just what country or nation has been successful with instilling it's values, culture, and civilization among that tribal society?

O.K. Doug.

Was it the Soviets? The British? The Persians? The Macedonians??

Just who did it???

Who tamed those people in that wild land?

And you think it's going to be us??

DOUGLAS TAYLOR's picture

Woop Them!

I do not suggest we tame them. I suggest we woop them. We should not be their to help them we should be their to beat them. I could go on and on but I am a little tired tonight. Have a good night Ronald and keep me and the Jesus Party in your prayers. God bless

RONALD RIML's picture

Who's this 'We' stuff there, Doug?

Who's this 'We' stuff there, Doug??? You deciding to enlist now???

You better stick to 'Preachin' because you don't know Jack about the Afghans... You still have not told me who in history has successfully 'whopped' and 'tamed' the Afghans.....

Now Rudyard Kipling knew more than a little bit about what was called the 'Northwest Frontier' back during the apex of the British Empire; being an Anglo-Indian newspaperman and correspondent, with a particular fondness for the British troops and the 'Civil Service.'

This bit of verse is every bit as true today as when Kipling wrote it well over a hundred years ago. Kipling may have been an unapologetic Imperialist, but he was certainly a pragmatist.

"It is not wise for the Christian white
To hustle the Asian brown;
For the Christian riles
And the Asian smiles
And weareth the Christian down.

At the end of the fight
Lies a tombstone white
With the name of the late deceased;
And the epitaph drear,
A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

JOANNE MOORE's picture

You do not dare to say it......

You do not dare to say the word kill. Woop them? Just what the hell does that mean if not kill them, huh? You are no man of God, that's for sure. And, you can't even spell -- "their" should be there as in over there. You are a phoney, Dougie boy. A phoney who preys on the ignorant. Jesus Party indeed. Jesus would kick you in the butt for using His name to troll for $$$$$$. And He would also kick you again for being a warmonger.

DOUGLAS TAYLOR's picture

(3 Times ) Since when do you

(3 Times ) Since when do you have to be in the military to have an opinion about the military. our President is Commander-in-Chief of the military and he never served in the military. Do you hear yourself? I am proud to be an American and I am proud to use my freedom of speech! I feel bad for the way you think Dan Breton. Do you have to be a preacher or be a christian to have an opinion about church? How foolish my friend.

RONALD RIML's picture

Since when do you have to be

Since when do you have to be a Pastor or a Theologian to have an informed opinion on the nature of the Diety???

These representations look just swell, eh Doug....

Wouldn't they serve just as well at your place of worship???

JOANNE MOORE's picture

You call yourself a Christian?

Whatever happened to "Blessed are the peacemakers." ? Sounds to me you are saying what you know will be popular with the knuckledraggers. Sort of like trolling for dollars for the collection plate. Hmmmmm?

DOUGLAS TAYLOR's picture

$$$$

If anyone would like to help us with the ministry please feel free to make a donation. We do not pay the bills with Joann's kind of thinking. Write your check out to The Jesus Party, Inc. You can send it to 291 Bates Street in Lewiston, Maine,04240.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

Coward.

Just what is my kind of thinking? You don't even give specifics. And you never dared to address me directly. You would lose this argument and you know it. You are a phoney warmonger who preys on the ignorant for money.
That is disgusting.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

It's a about time you stepped

It's a about time you stepped in Pattie. The attacks on this man are outrageous. You know as well as I, the good work he does for this community. Is he not entitled to express an opinion without being viciously attacked by people who know little or nothing about him?

DOUGLAS TAYLOR's picture

Hey Buddy.

Hey thanks for the support. I love this kind of stuff and I am not a sensitive person. It stimulates me when I get Response. Just for the record I have a keyboard that sticks. lol

DOUGLAS TAYLOR's picture

A Just War!

I said a just war.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

"just" for whom?

When was the last one? Probably WW2.??

RONALD RIML's picture

And how many

Angels have to dance on the head of a pin for a war to be just???

DOUGLAS TAYLOR's picture

The War

Angles are involved in warfare everyday. (Good V.S Evil)

RONALD RIML's picture

You

obviously missed the point.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

Do they beg for donations?

What a simple-minded philosophy you espouse. And you can't even spell angels. What a farce.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Before you and others go

Before you and others go around criticizing and poking fun at Mr. Taylor for his misspellings, you really ought to read your own stuff before clicking 'save'.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

Isolated "events" ?

Hardly. There are plenty of "events" that prove you wrong. You can watch our "courageous" troops sniper people and even dogs on the streets on U Tube. Just for "fun". And while you are doing research, read a book or two by Chalmers Johnson and what our brave boys are doing to the people in the Phillipines - rape of girls, hit and run while boozed up. They are terrorizing those people. Most of these stories never get reported in the mainstream media because, like you, people refuse to look honestly at what we, as a nation, have done and are doing to the civilian populations in so many places, not just Iraq and Afghanistan.

And when a story breaks like the latest rampage by that deranged Army Sgt., Robert Bales, who killed, took a break, went out again to kill some more children and adults, you would stifle the press from reporting. You seem to think we should not learn the truth.

Not all of us have blinders on. We see American Imperialism as a threat to all of us, here and abroad. Blowback will be horrendous when it comes.

Bush was wrong, you know, when he said, "They hate us for our freedoms." On the contrary, they hate us for invading them for oil as in Iraq, or for trying to force our way of life on them and destroying their civilizations. Our cowboy mentality is not welcomed. We are not liberators from oppression. We are the oppressors. We support dictators until they stand in the way of our aggression. Then we destroy their nation, causing millions to flee and live their lives in misery and suffering. We use white phosphorous on these people. And depleted uranium causing untold numbers of stillborn and malformed children and rendering the ground unsuitable for life.

But you would censor the press and call them irresponsible. Nothing to see here, move along. That is the act of a coward who is afraid of the truth.

My husband is retired Army. He could tell you about the horror of what we did and are doing much better than I. He served this country believing the lies. He does not believe them any more.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

..."they hate us for invading

..."they hate us for invading them for oil as in Iraq"...
How's that Iraqui oil working out for us? Sure helping to keep the price of gas down isn't it? Iraq was never about oil and isn't to this day. Popular left wing punchline, though.

ERNEST LABBE's picture

Well Dan

Well Dan a couple of things come to mind.

1)Unless you know Rev Taylor how do you know if he served or not.

2)It would be most extrodinary for a man of the cloth to be a right wing war monger or anything else right wing.

3) If you are going to war you do it with vigor, letting the commanders make EVERY decission, not some person that has no idea how to hold a weapon.

4) Why is it you cannot comment without name calling?

JOANNE MOORE's picture

Extrodinary?

Ever heard of televangelists? All right-wing warmongers. Keeps those checks coming in. $$$$$$

DOUGLAS TAYLOR's picture

Do you hear yourself!

Since when do you have to be in the military to have an opinion about the military. our President is Commander-in-Chief of the military and he never served in the military. Do you hear yourself? I am proud to be an American and I am proud to use my freedom of speech! I feel bad for the way you think Dan Breton. Do you have to be a preacher or be a christian to have an opinion about church? How foolish my friend.

DOUGLAS TAYLOR's picture

(LOL)"The Mail Order

(LOL)"The Mail Order Preacher" has arrived just in time to set things straight! ( COME SEE WHAT I DO FOR YOURSELF ) it would blow your mind. News Flash: The Jesus Party will be holding a joint meeting (Children & Adults) on Friday, March 30th@6:00PM. Special guests will be Revivalists Israel Oriol & Scott Henderson. Bro. Oriol just back from a mission trip from the Dominican Republic. Those who come will be treated to faith, food, and fellowship. R.S.V.P for a seat. We do not have joint ( Come To Jesus Meetings) very often. Do not miss this occasion. (LOL) Mail Order Preacher!

JOANNE MOORE's picture

You have some racket going Mr. Taylor.

But the food served at one of these "meetings", sooner or later, is going to be crow. You can pander to the gullible and ignorant and rake in the $$$$$ but most of us know out here in reality land that anyone can call themselves a preacher. And I'm calling you out, coward. You don't dare to reply to me. Have I struck a nerve?

DOUGLAS TAYLOR's picture

If I dare ( I love this stuff)

Come down and see me and call me out. I want you to see what I do with all the money I got. This Friday @ 6:00PM we have a special night of ministry and I want you to come for an eye opener. You will be my special guest. News Flash: The Jesus Party will be holding a joint meeting (Children & Adults) on Friday, March 30th@6:00PM. Special guests will be Revivalists Israel Oriol & Scott Henderson. Bro. Oriol just back from a mission trip from the Dominican Republic. Those who come will be treated to faith, food, and fellowship. R.S.V.P for a seat. We do not have joint ( Come To Jesus Meetings) very often. Do not miss this occasion.

DOUGLAS TAYLOR's picture

If I dare ( I love this stuff)

Come down and see me and call me out. I want you to see what I do with all the money I got. This Friday @ 6:00PM we have a special night of ministry and I want you to come for an eye opener. You will be my special guest. News Flash: The Jesus Party will be holding a joint meeting (Children & Adults) on Friday, March 30th@6:00PM. Special guests will be Revivalists Israel Oriol & Scott Henderson. Bro. Oriol just back from a mission trip from the Dominican Republic. Those who come will be treated to faith, food, and fellowship. R.S.V.P for a seat. We do not have joint ( Come To Jesus Meetings) very often. Do not miss this occasion.

JOANNE MOORE's picture

Did they ask him?

Did the people ask him to be there on his "mission"? Or is he, too, trolling for converts to fatten the till.

DOUGLAS TAYLOR's picture

On A Mission!

If you were spiritual you would hear the cry of the children. You would do something to help instead of downing me. What good would it do me to go to a theological seminary so I could debate foolishness. The highest position you can have on earth is to be in a position to help someone. You don't know me!

JOANNE MOORE's picture

I don't know you.

You got that right, Doug. But I know your kind. Flim flammers. Snake oil salesmen. Rainmakers. Con artists. All as phoney as a three dollar bill.

You can't have it both ways. You can't "hear the cry of the children" and then propose bombing them off the face of the planet. Or "wooping" them as you call it. How spiritual is that?

DOUGLAS TAYLOR's picture

The Ministry.

The ministry is a nonprofit faith-based organization. The directors, the Rev. Douglas and Sonia Taylor, along with staff, are involved on a volunteer basis. The ministry does not fundraise for itself. It is supported solely by the generosity of people who live in the surrounding communities.

The ministry promotes observances throughout the year such as, Child Abuse Awareness Month in April, National Suicide Awareness Month in September and Domestic Violence Awareness Month in October. The outreach takes stands against schoolyard bullying, drug, alcohol and tobacco use, gangs and encourages abstinence.

The children's chapel has a big screen television, strobe lights, disco balls, candy counters, a popcorn machine and media center. Services are held at 6 p.m. Fridays.

AL PELLETIER's picture

WoW Joanne!!

YOU GO GIRL. THE REV. BROUGHT A BIBLE AND A COLLECTION PLATE TO THE GUNFIGHT. WRONG CHOICE!

DOUGLAS TAYLOR's picture

Do you hear yourself!

Since when do you have to be in the military to have an opinion about the military. our President is Commander-in-Chief of the military and he never served in the military. Do you hear yourself? I am proud to be an American and I am proud to use my freedom of speech! I feel bad for the way you think Dan Breton. Do you have to be a preacher or be a christian to have an opinion about church? How foolish my friend.

ANTHONY NAZAR's picture

Conservatives without DD-214's

Most conservatives love to beat the war drums but are loath to actually serve.

If you think I'm wrong - check this website: http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

And now for the Tea Party Brigade to race through the on line opinion pages to click dislike on everything. LOL

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

What word would you have used

What word would you have used to describe liberals? Many, most, all, few, no? I don't believe conservatives are any less inclinded to serve America than liberals are. Even so, how could you actually prove it?
oBAMa's beating the war drums with Iran and North Korea. He never served. Defending the best interests of the country isn't necessarily beating war drums.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

What years did you serve?

What years did you serve?

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

I am attempting to keep you

I am attempting to keep you from indulging in the character assassination of the Rev. Doug Taylor; a good and honorable man who is being disgracefully and unjustly maligned in this forum. One who has not served in the U.S. military himself, does not have the right to criticize another man for not having served, either. In fact, no one has the right to criticize anyone for not having served. Every man has his own reasons and circumstances for serving and not serving
By the way, your refusal to answer my question, answered my question. Exactly has I had thought.

RONALD RIML's picture

He's being maligned

He's being maligned for the following reason:

1. He's warmongering over a Country he has absolutely no idea of the history of; the 'sink-hole' it's been for all other countries and civilizations that have invaded it.

2. He's clamoring to 'Whoop' Afghanistan when we've not declared war against them, nor has he any intention to personally fight there.

So what is his jingoism about?? He's not willing to shed blood, nor does he know the history or futility of any action over there. The only informed decision he has made is that it's not worth his own personal sacrifice.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

The good he does in this

The good he does in this community far outweighs any harm his poor choice of words might cause.

RONALD RIML's picture

That depends

That depends - I would hate to see any of his flock take these words of his on a subject he doesn't know squat on 'literally' and embark on their own personal "Childrens' Crusade" by running down to the Recruiting Office for a ticket to Af-goon-istan.....

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Understood.

Understood.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

What are you going to tell me

What are you going to tell me next? Your brother can beat up my brother? You juvenile.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

My statement was

My statement was metaphorical. I've never had a brother. Sorry about your losses.

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