R. Caron: Conservatives versus equality

When conservatives Newt Gingrich and Rush Limbaugh (who between them have five divorces and seven marriages) claim that President Barack Obama is out to ruin the sanctity of marriage by supporting gay marriage, it's time to wake up.

Obama is the first black president whose motto was to bring changes to the White House. However, when he tries to bring equality to all Americans, he is criticized and ridiculed.

The only changes the conservatives (especially the tea party group) want is to get rid of the president who is now occupying the White House.

Obama was blasted by Republicans because he once belonged Trinity United Church of Christ, a predominantly black church in Chicago's southwest side. He left that church after controversial remarks by Pastor Jeremiah Wright.

I wonder if Mitt Romney will leave his Mormon Church to join a conservative Christian church if he is elected? (I doubt it.)

He will do fine as long as he speaks the conservative language — that marriage is a sacred institution that should not be destroyed by allowing the gay and lesbian community to enter and break the long, long tradition.

Rolande Caron, South Paris

What do you think of this story?

Login to post comments

In order to make comments, you must create a subscription.

In order to comment on SunJournal.com, you must hold a valid subscription allowing access to this website. You must use your real name and include the town in which you live in your SunJournal.com profile. To subscribe or link your existing subscription click here.

Login or create an account here.

Our policy prohibits comments that are:

  • Defamatory, abusive, obscene, racist, or otherwise hateful
  • Excessively foul and/or vulgar
  • Inappropriately sexual
  • Baseless personal attacks or otherwise threatening
  • Contain illegal material, or material that infringes on the rights of others
  • Commercial postings attempting to sell a product/item
If you violate this policy, your comment will be removed and your account may be banned from posting comments.

Advertisement

Comments

Joe Morin's picture

As I read this letter...

... I wonder what is worse. A conservative candidate that clearly states his values or a liberal incumbent who is willing to change his stance in the apparent attempt to garner votes from a certain voting block? Oh wait, he isn't actually campaigning on this issue he is endorsing states rights on same sex marriage??? Hmmm, that can't be, Obama endorsing states rights?
Oh, of course. The only way to flatter the gay community and his liberal base was to say that he "personally feels in support of same sex marriage" but his official position is that it's a state issue. So... Roland Caron, you have credited the president for standing up for gay rights when, in fact, he has done just the opposite. He has endorsed individual states rights to vote on the issue. We all know how most of the state votes have gone. They have voted opposed to same-sex marriages. That would lead me to believe that Obama actually opposes same-sex marriage.
"Obama is the first black president whose motto was to bring changes to the White House. However, when he tries to bring equality to all Americans, he is criticized and ridiculed."
Saying and doing are two different things... BHO has said plenty.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

All distractions from the

All distractions from the real issues - Jobs, debt, the economy.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

"He will do fine as long as

"He will do fine as long as he speaks the conservative language--that marriage is a sacred institution that should not be destroyed by allowing the gay and lesbian community to enter and break the long, long tradition."
I would ask the writer, when in the history of mankind has marriage ever been defined by anything other than a union between a man and a woman of human descent? Another long, long tradition also comes to mind; you can't plug a lamp into a lamp.

 's picture

Very odd letter

The question is when in the history of mankind has it been defined as a union between a man and a woman. In western culture, for the last few hundred years. In eastern culture, Africa, Asia, India, only that period of western colonial occupation. The biblical definition of marriage was polygamy. Practiced by almost every biblical group. Heterosexual exclusive civil and religious marriage is the rare exception not the rule. And even more rare was when it involved love and committment. And then there is "common law" marriage.

Zack Lenhert's picture

"when in the history of

"when in the history of mankind has marriage ever been defined by anything other than a union between a man and a woman of human descent?"

Here you go. From Wikipedia

Various types of same-sex marriages have existed,[71] ranging from informal, unsanctioned relationships to highly ritualized unions.[72]
While it is a relatively new practice to frequently grant same-sex couples the same form of legal marital recognition as commonly granted to mixed-sex couples, there is a long history of recorded same-sex unions around the world.[73] It is believed that same-sex unions were celebrated in Ancient Greece and Rome,[73] some regions of China, such as Fujian, and at certain times in ancient European history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Wikipedia? You might as well

Wikipedia? You might as well have gotten your information out of a comic book.

RONALD RIML's picture

Yet a comic-book with foot-notes, non the less!!!

When you can't attack the facts, throw in a red herring or twa'!!!!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

No one knows the

No one knows the unreliability of getting factual information from Wikipedia better than Veritas. Their specialty is making 3 plus 5 come out to anything a person wants it to be.

RONALD RIML's picture

Pirate yet failed to attack one single fact presented...

And could only throw Wikipedia up as the 'Strawman'

Certainly not like the Pirates of Yore!!!

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

That what is being presented

That what is being presented as fact remains questionable since the so called source for presenting these facts is, at best, laughable. But, I agree with you that these are savage times, indeed.

RONALD RIML's picture

Could you detail the laughable pages of this source mentioned in

Could you detail the laughable pages of this source mentioned in the footnotes??

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/same-sex-unions-in-premodern-europe-john...

RONALD RIML's picture

Marriage has been defined by whatever need it met.

Geo-political - As arranged marriages between the offspring of tribal leaders.

Marriage is actually a fairly recent social phenomena in our history - for many centuries there was merely an 'understanding.

Extension of Religious Control - Permission to marry can be granted or withheld by religious authority.

The list goes on and on.......

The 'Tradition' of marriage until fairly recently was that the husband literally owned his wife - or wives..

It's not necessary for procreation, it may or may not be satisfying to both participants. Marriage has continually evolved - and that is the one long, lasting 'Tradition'

Same-Sex Marriage certainly fits within that dynamic.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Geo-political as arranged

Geo-political as arranged marriages between the offspring of tribal leaders--probably male & female.
For many centuries there was merely an "understanding".--probably between males and females.
The 'tradtion' of marriage until fairly recently was that the husband literally owned his wife or wives.--Again, probably males and females.
Marriage has continually evolved, and that is the one long, lasting tradition.--Are you saying that the only constant in marriage is change?
I can't marry my sister, who happens to be drop-dead gorgeous, but it's o.k. for two guys to get married.
Can't marry my first cousin, who's also a real looker, but it's o.k. for two 'women' to get married.
What am I missing?

RONALD RIML's picture

What you're missing, Pirate??

What too many of Maine's ancestors obviously didn't miss.....

Consanguinity

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

The parrot wants to know if

The parrot wants to know if that means the same thing as consentual sex.

Jason Theriault's picture

Depends.

Depends how you define a lamp.... Example - Christmas lights. Provide light, can be plugged into other Christmas lights.

And as for this line "when in the history of mankind has marriage ever been defined by anything other than a union between a man and a woman of human descent?"

Let me ask you - How many times in the history of mankind has the law been on the wrong side of the argument? We have had laws outlawing marriage between, which most people agree now that the law was on the wrong side of it. Hell, I could write page after page of examples of where the law was wrong, even in the face of facts and evidence.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

As is often the case, you're

As is often the case, you're unable to come up with a real response, so you've once again treated us to cute off the wall analogies and semantics. I made no mention of Christmas lights and laws pertaining marriage. You objectively addressed neither of my statetements; probably because you can't. But, on the lighter side, where've you been ? I thought you might have gone into hibernation like a few others.

Jason Theriault's picture

No hibernation

Maybe I have been busier at work - I use posting here as a palate cleanse. I didn't realize I had been posting less.

The Christmas light part was because you said you couldn't plug a lamp into a lamp. Which, you can. Christmas lights are one example of plugging a lamp into a lamp. Also if you get one of these you can:

Anyway, my point is that tradition has, on numerous occasions, been the justification for stupid laws. When the government denies people the right to be happy, it needs a damn good reason, more than "religion says it's icky".

So Pirate, what's the reason?

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

What do you suppose is the

What do you suppose is the government's reason for not allowing you and me to marry our sisters? Is that 'religion' generated or is the law just on the wrong side of tradition?

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Deliverance perhaps - fad to

Deliverance perhaps - fad to dueling banjos.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Deliverance perhaps - fad to

Deliverance perhaps - fad to dueling banjos.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Deliverance--The reason why

Deliverance--The reason why the Pirate will often pack heat when he goes in wooded areas hiking, etc. Guess I've seen the movie too many times.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

BTW-That's a great picture of

BTW-That's a great picture of a fuse blower.

Jason Theriault's picture

Fuse blower?

Your still using fuses?

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

It's a pirate ship; not a

It's a pirate ship; not a castle.
Last house I lived in, if the refrigerator went on while you were using the toaster; a fuse blew.

MARK GRAVEL's picture

Yes, and you cannot screw the

Yes, and you cannot screw the male end into another male end, but it fits well in the female end does it not?

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Excellently stated, Mark.

Excellently stated, Mark. That is the crux of the whole matter, is it not?

MARK GRAVEL's picture

I spin on the fuse blower

I spin on the fuse blower picture above, so don’t get shorted.

 's picture

Paul, I think in some cases it's ...

... forced hibernation.

Jason Theriault's picture

=)

There you have it, my good name affirmed by the mods.

It helps that I have debates about this stuff with my parents, who are very conservative. It reminds you to keep emotions in check, and that people on both sides of the issues are not bad people just for disagreeing with you.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Yup, sort of suspected that.

Yup, sort of suspected that. The line between acceptability and the penalty box is often blurred.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Perhaps he just got tired of

Perhaps he just got tired of being hammered on. Hope it isn't a health issue.

Jason Theriault's picture

Are we talking about Tron?

Cause I haven't ever received a ban, or even a warning from a mod(at least that I can remember) - from this account or my alter ego that I used to post under until they implemented the real name verification.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

The Pirate got a warning

The Pirate got a warning once; had it coming, too. Threatened kick a guy's butt. As soon as that missive was released he knew he'd done the wrong thing. Apologized to both the moderators and the guy. The guy was not very receptive, but **it happens.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Who was your alter ego?

Who was your alter ego?

Jason Theriault's picture

Well, that would defeat the purpose of an alias

Well, that would defeat the purpose of an alias, wouldn't it? I mean, does Bruce Wayne take off his mask(well, except when he wants to get the girl)?

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

If memory serves me well, you

If memory serves me well, you were that guy whose banner portrayed Jesus and His Cross riding the back of a dinosaur. Those were the days, when a pirate could be a pirate. So, you put on the Hazmat headgear and went underground?

Jason Theriault's picture

Actually....l

I did that with this account(Jesus and His Cross riding the back of a dinosaur).

And this isn't hazmat gear. It's a picture of "the Stig" from Top Gear on BBC America(I highly recommend it). Hence why Steve Dosh calls me Stig.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

What did Jesus and the Cross

What did Jesus and the Cross on the dinosaur symbolize? I've never been able to figure it out. I assumed you weren't trying to be disrespectful, or I'd have called you on it.

Jason Theriault's picture

It was a knock on creationism.

Many creationist who subscribe to a strict interpretation of the bible believe the world is less than 10,000 years old, and was created exactly as stated in Genesis. They also believe that dinosaurs existed at the same time as man. So that was on of the many images on the internet depicting biblical figures with dinosaurs.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

Thank you; the Pirate stands

Thank you; the Pirate stands enlightened.

PAUL ST JEAN's picture

The parrot sez he thought

The parrot sez he thought Steve was misspelling Sting.

Advertisement

Stay informed — Get the news delivered for free in your inbox.

I'm interested in ...