There is a day from the recent past that we all remember.
On that day, 19 desperate young men commandeered several airplanes, and flew them into the World Trade Center in NYC. I bet you remember exactly where you were that morning and, if I allowed it, we could all tell our stories about it.
We want to tell those stories, because we have not yet accepted all that happened that day. We are still stricken with horror about it. We are still traumatized.
We watched while the unthinkable happened. There was the explosion, and then the fire. There was the hope that it would be put out, that this would soon be over.
We saw people streaming out of the building if they could. Others headed for the roof hoping for rescue. We knew there were a lot of people there. Those buildings were small cities, and we wondered how many had died. We saw the responders, the grim firefighters, doing what they could. We hoped. We didn’t really expect what was going to happen.
Then, the buildings came down. Neater than a house of cards, they just fell in on themselves, and turned lower Manhattan into a toxic hell. Again and again we watched it replayed, hoping for a glimpse of some hope. Finally, when there was no hope, we couldn’t look anymore. Yet, it played over and over and over. You can close your eyes and see it. It was horrible because we knew people were dying in there, crushed under massive weight.
Yes, we remember.
For weeks after that, for months, we saw the pictures of the rubble, and the workers hauling it away. Bodies were found and laid to rest. Others, we knew, would never be found, crushed into the soil of what we began to call Ground Zero.
When bodies were found, there was silence and prayers. Speeches were made there, sermons for a grieving and angry nation. It became holy ground to us. Perhaps that is how most of us think of it today.
Now, we are told, there is to be a mosque built on that very site, on that holy ground. A symbol of the people who did this is to be erected on that spot. It has cleared a series of legal challenges, and been approved for building.
Across the nation, protests have broken out against it. It is an outrage, we are told. It “stabs at the heart of the American people,”said Sarah Palin. It seems so clearly inappropriate. Why must they build there, why not somewhere else?
Actually it’s not a mosque, but a Muslim community center, for use by the community. And it was not on Ground Zero, but several blocks away. But still, you know? It’s wrong. Hmmm.
And what do we think about this?
How do we respond to the people who are asking that this mosque not be built?
How do we talk to the people who are building it?
Is it not our problem, after all. It is in NYC.
But we know that there are issues right here in LA..
I recently attended a program put on by a group here that was telling me that Islam wants to eliminate Christianity. The speaker said that Islam has a desire to spread their faith through the whole world. And isn’t that wrong? I pointed out that Christians have done this too, but he said it’s not the same. He didn’t say how it was different.
So what do we think? I know what I think.
I want to tell you three things about it.
This resistance to the building is not based on the people building it, just on their religion. And Jesus didn’t consider people on the basis of their religion.
This is not to say that Jesus was not of a religion. He was raised Jewish, and would surely have identified himself as Jewish. Of course, the followers of Jesus through history have called themselves Christians, and I identify myself as Christian. But Jesus was not concerned about religion. He was not a religious man. And that’s why his first sermon went so badly.
Here’s what he said: There are key moments in time, and this is one. Changes are coming. But don’t you think that God is on your side, and against anyone, everyone else.
Remember in Elijah’s time, it was a foreigner who was saved. And, in Elisha’s time, it was only Naaman, of all the lepers in the world, Naaman, a commander in the Syrian army, who was healed. So we are not so special. God doesn’t care what religion or race we are. And Jesus’ audience got so mad at this that they attempted to throw him off a cliff.
The gospels tell us that several times Jesus was approached by foreigners. They were not members of the home team. And yet it was these — a woman, a Roman soldier, a prostitute, a Syrian woman, who he said showed greater faith than anyone among “God’s people.” What Jesus was looking for in people was not their religion, but their faith and their love.
This point is made over and over in the Bible, in part, because the people who wrote this book were trying to understand what God was calling them to through Christ. And they were realizing that they were called to build a community of people who didn’t take silly things like race, gender, nationality or religion into account.
The question was, are you a person of faith? And that means, do you love God? Do you love others?
So, point number one. We should not look at Muslims only as members of a particular religion.
In Christ, it is possible to connect with people across the thickest barriers. Jesus told us this: that we should love our enemies. And if we love them, they cannot remain enemies.
I am choosing not to have enemies, and the people building this mosque in NYC are not my enemies, nor are the Muslims here in LA, nor are the Muslims in Afghanistan. Even when there is conflict, they are not my enemies. That’s my choice.
Second is this: I have learned to mistrust a certain word. It’s a simple word, and it can be used properly, but I’m sensitive to when it is not.
They. They. And its variants — them, they’re.
“They are violent people.”
“They are lazy people.”
“You know what they’re trying to do. Just look at them.”
I myself have been “themed” and “theyed,” and I don’t like it.
Friends, there are a billion Muslims in the world, and I don’t think all of them are the same, do you?
There are some Muslims who are fearful, hateful violent people. There are some who are wise, peaceful, happy people. There are some who move back and forth between these poles. And the overwhelming majority of Muslims in the world just want to live in peace and safety, surrounded by their family and friends.
When we think of people as categories, we make big mistakes.
I hate it when I get tossed into the category many people have for pastors as distant, judgmental, old dudes who are out of touch.
It breaks my heart when I hear Christian leaders and pastors speaking with hate and fear in their voices, and it ticks me off knowing that people are listening to that and saying, “See how those Christians are?” Yet there is so much disparity of belief among Christians!
Prejudice against Muslims isn’t going to help us anymore than prejudice against French Canadians, or blacks, or women.
One more thing I know. When people in power treat the powerless with fear, I know that a destructive pattern has taken place.
I’m old enough now that I’ve seen people in various groups ask for a level of equality. What these groups do have in common is the fact that in some way they are denied full participation in society. Sometimes these people find the means to stand up and ask that they be recognized as equals.
I have never yet seen a group rise up without another larger group pushing them back down. And I have never heard a group ask to be treated as equals without hearing someone else say that it will be the end of society if they are given equality. So far, this dire result has never happened. In fact, when diversity is increased, things get better. But when equality is asked for, there are always others who say “No!”
Those who have the power in society never give it up easily. And they hold onto it long after they see the negative effect of it on others.
So, here’s a little tip I will pass on: If you find yourself among those who are in power, and are saying "no" to those who are on the margins, you are making a mistake.
If you are one of the millions of Christians in this country who can put a church anywhere you want, and you are saying "no" to Muslims who are pushed to the edges of society, you are making that mistake.
Furthermore, you are not following the way of Jesus.
The fact is, Jesus seemed to lavish his attention on those very people who were pushed to the edge: The poor. The foreigner. Women. Children. Lepers, lame, and other disabled people. Prostitutes. Murderers. Sinners of every kind.
When I am one who stands up against the little ones, I don’t like who I am.
I want to be known for doing what Jesus did, and stand with the little ones.
In our society, our Muslim neighbors are the powerless. They are victims of great prejudice and inequality.
I am not going to add to that. Are you?
Stephen Carnahan is pastor of the High Street Congregational Church and delivered this sermon to parishioners on Sunday, Aug. 15.

verified I'm torn. Part of me thinks, that putting a Mosque at Ground Zero is a good jesture. The other part of me, says no way, no how! This should not be about religion. It should be about the Fallen. Those people who lost their lives at Ground Zero.
Do we really need to play this game with a racist old Christian who is so far away from being acceptable to Christ. In the body of Christ and the body of the Church in the Old Testament hypocrisy was unacceptable and punishable by death.
Leviticus 16:15-16
"Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that is for the people, and bring his blood within the vail, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat: And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remaineth among them in the midst of their uncleanness."
Mark 3:29
"But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation."
In being a hypocrite you commit a blaspheme against the LORD as illustrated in the two passages above. How then can Seeking consider himself a true Christian while disdaining and disowning others?
Do you have any idea what you are talking about?
How old are you? I'd really like to know.
Is it only for Christian denominations? It doesn't matter "what Jesus would have done," what matters is our constitution. Does the constitution guarantee religious freedom or doesn't it? 9/11 has nothing to do with a cultural center being built in lower Manhatten. Besides, an office building will be built on Ground Zero - sacred ground. Doesn't that bother anybody?

"you seem to be under the impression that you can embrace Jesus as the only way to heaven, and yet reject his actual teachings. I seem to have missed over the portions of the Bible where Jesus forced anyone to accept his teachings or used any method other then loving persuasion to spread his ideas. "
What actual teachings do I reject? Jesus doesn't force anyone to accept his teachings, but He doesn't accept anyone that rejects His teachings. I don't believe for one second that Jesus would support a Mosque anywhere, much less at ground zero.
If you want to be part of what "Jesus accepts", then you need to become acceptable to Him. Muslims are a long way from being acceptable.
The is the denomination of Jeremiah Wright. Rev Wright is a politically radical leftist that has preached about damning America. His sermons are a reflection of the left wing extremism that UCC holds to. And his message of hate towards white people is unmistakable. A lot of the teachings of the UCC are in direct conflict of the Bible, such as sanctioning gay marriage and the support of terrorist groups that occupy portions of Israel. They promote the distribution of condoms to children, thus promoting sex instead of morality. They have supported the killing of unborn children for years.
So, Rev Carnahan, you and Rev Wright can teach your left wing liberalism to whoever wants to hear it. How can you claim to preach love while you and your colleague, Rev Wright, promote division and false doctrine? It's funny, when liberals complain about preachers that promote their political views from the pulpit, they only target the conservative ones, not the left wing radical preachers like you and Rev Wright.
But this Christian will stick to sound Bible doctrine and ignore false Prophets like you.
Amazing example of a lot of the things he was talking about in the sermon. Not once do you address what he says. Not once do you try to confront the arguments he makes. Instead you make ad hominem attacks on the church he belongs to, make a lame attempt at guilt by association and try to claim that a sermon based on the very core of Jesus' teachings is unbiblical. It is stunning the number of conservatives who call themselves Christians who seem to believe that the central message of Christianity is "judge thy neighbors and smite thy enemies".
was that He was the only way to heaven. Not Mohammad.
Jesus not once taught "religious freedom" to worship whatever god you choose. In fact, he taught against it. He taught there is only one way to the true God and that was through Himself.
"Religious Freedom" is a constitutional concept, not a biblical one. So Rev Carnahan is wrong when he says that religious tolerance is at the core of the teachings of Christ. Yes, Jesus accepted people from outside Isreal, but He taught them to follow Him, He didn't accept their pagan beliefs or religions. The lesson Jesus was teaching was that Christianity was for every person from everywhere. He was not teaching that we accept non-christian religions as legitimate.
There is no way the Rev Carnahan can justify accepting Islam as an acceptable way of worshipping God, and he especially can't justify it using the Bible to prove it. The Bible teaches the exact opposite.
The constitution and the Bible are not the same thing, and the Rev Carnahan needs to learn the difference.
Did you mistake Rev. Carnahan's sermon to be commenting on the theological soundness of Islam? I see nothing to support that position. It seems to me that he was commenting on the theological soundness of leaving Muslims in peace. There is no contradiction between thinking someone is wrong and saying that they have the right to hold a mistaken belief. Speaking of mistaken beliefs, you seem to be under the impression that you can embrace Jesus as the only way to heaven, and yet reject his actual teachings. I seem to have missed over the portions of the Bible where Jesus forced anyone to accept his teachings or used any method other then loving persuasion to spread his ideas. Perhaps you can use your Biblical expertise to enlighten me?
Tell me where you got this statement?
"Speaking of mistaken beliefs, you seem to be under the impression that you can embrace Jesus as the only way to heaven, and yet reject his actual teachings."
Exactly what part of the teachings of Christ would support your question about embracing Jesus as the only way to heaven, and yet reject His actual teachings?
What part of His teachings say that we can get to heaven any other way?
Jesus made it clear that even though He doesn't "force" anyone to accept His teachings, that if they wanted to get to Heaven, then Jesus was the only way.
It is obvious that my "Bible expertise" won't enlighten you, but I do hope someone does come along with enough Bible knowledge to help you.
What teachings of Jesus do you propose are the basis behind putting the mosque next to Ground Zero?
In what is starting to seem like standard procedure for you, you are proceeding from a false premise, that accepting the building of a mosque is accepting the validity of Islam. You are right, Jesus does not accept forcing of his teachings. They mystery is why you seem to think that following his teachings requires you to do so (or rather to prevent someone else from following their religion). How do you come up with the idea that there needs to be, Christian teachings to underlie the building of a Mosque in Lower Manhattan? Why do you think I said there are? Roman Judea was religiously diverse. Does Jesus ever advocate expelling Pagan temples?
History is sadly full of people who thought they knew what or who Jesus would accept. People who thought Jesus would not accept a Jewish community living in their country. People who thought Jesus would not accept Catholics, or Protestants, or the wrong kind of Protestants. As long as "not accept" is defined as disagree with and at most using persuasion to correct error then civil society endures. When you decide you need to use the force of law or your own force to enforce what Jesus would accept, then the blood starts flowing.
The fact is Jesus would accept anyone, and the only thing he would try to change is your heart
but you make a mistake if you think the ones in power and we all know who you are talking about, Sarah (youbetcha) Glenice (cry me a river) Rush (give me back my Viagra and oxycontin) FoxSnooze and their stirring the pot of hatred daily. You had the audacity to write about their h(z)eros in that tone.
"Those who have the power in society never give it up easily. And they hold onto it long after they see the negative effect of it on others.
So, here’s a little tip I will pass on: If you find yourself among those who are in power, and are saying "no" to those who are on the margins, you are making a mistake."
True but you will get no sympathy from this crowd on this forum. Watch how many disagree with me.
In order to make comments, you must verify your account.
In order to comment on SunJournal.com, you must use your real name and include the town in which you live in your profile. A member of our staff will call you to verify this information. To join in, fill out your user profile completely and check the box "please verify my status." We'll get back to you within one business day to verify your account.
Login or create an account here.
Our policy prohibits comments that are:
- Defamatory, abusive, obscene, racist, or otherwise hateful
- Excessively foul and/or vulgar
- Inappropriately sexual
- Baseless personal attacks or otherwise threatening
- Contain illegal material, or material that infringes on the rights of others
- Commercial postings attempting to sell a product/item
If you violate this policy, your comment will be removed and your account may be banned.