politics
Romney running mate search enters audition phase
More in politics

nation
Food stamp fraud raising concern in government offices
More in nation

local
Auburn Council gives L/A Arts allocation to Community Little Theatre
More in local

maine
Damage could knock nuclear submarine out of action
More in maine

P. Nachman: Confidence probably misplaced

Paul Nachman
Letters |
Thursday, February 9, 2012

In her Feb. 4 column, “Immigration and ‘Obamacare’ share connection,” Froma Harrop assures the public that “the law guaranteeing coverage to all Americans excludes illegal immigrants.”

Well, yes, that’s what the law says, but it doesn’t specify how this exclusion is to be enforced. In particular, it fails to mandate use of the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements online program to confirm that a noncitizen applicant for benefits resides in the U.S. legally.

Then, considering that it’s against the law for illegal aliens to work here, yet about 8 million illegal aliens do, in fact, hold U.S. jobs, Harrop’s confidence that they won’t be collecting “government-guaranteed” health-care services is probably misplaced.

Indeed, we can be fairly certain that illegal aliens, somehow, will be enjoying medical care on the taxpayers’ dimes.

Paul Nachman, Bozeman, Mont.

More from Letters

R. Sabine: Judging the need and the truth 3 hours 40 sec ago
P. Mador: Remember their sacrifice 3 hours 40 sec ago
J. Grover: Religious state of Maine 1
R. Baskett: Council's decision promotes civic engagement 1
M. Jalbert: Taking earmarked money 2
more

Stay informed — Get the news delivered for free in your inbox.

I'm interested in ...

In order to make comments, you must verify your account.

In order to comment on SunJournal.com, you must use your real name and include the town in which you live in your profile. A member of our staff will call you to verify this information. To join in, fill out your user profile completely and check the box "please verify my status." We'll get back to you within one business day to verify your account.

Login or create an account here.

Our policy prohibits comments that are:

  • Defamatory, abusive, obscene, racist, or otherwise hateful
  • Excessively foul and/or vulgar
  • Inappropriately sexual
  • Baseless personal attacks or otherwise threatening
  • Contain illegal material, or material that infringes on the rights of others
  • Commercial postings attempting to sell a product/item
If you violate this policy, your comment will be removed and your account may be banned.

Advertisement

Displaying comments, from newest to oldest

verified

Not surprising

By Joseph Ziehm, verified user — Fri, 02/10/2012 - 00:53

It is not surprising that the Czarist and racist factions of the old "Conservatively" Russian front are continually becoming seen all over again. The entire facets of hatred and fear seem to be predated in concepts from Stalin and Hitler himself. Using the vileness of the "outsider" as the most dangerous among us. Mr. Nachman you remind me of a classmate of mine who had felt that as she was of Czech descent that my mothers lineage of Irish-Jewry made it so that I would have to kneel before here.

As a Baptist this is rather disappointing to see that for all of the physics based knowledge one can posses creating an air of fear is the only true self-gratification one can get. In fact this is a bondage between those in the systems of your own family as well. The racism and the scaffolded humanist rejections with an air of continual fear is little more then self-centered egotistical facets. It seems to thrive on fear and donations to establish a "cult" mandated sense of the opine in writing and creates a narrow minded view of those who think differently.

Mr. Nachman while you enjoy the daily purges of illegal "aliens" does any of this truthfully set you so far apart from Stalin or Hitler? The very nature of the article which you write is more of instilling fear toward others; then little more then that? Is this a case where in reverse desperation anyone not deemed American would have to kneel down before you? The questions becomes of the VDare project just how much of a diaspora it would create and exiles as well if they had ever been given enough control to expel other Americans.

tron's picture

Mr. Nachman has a perfect

By tron, unverified — Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:53

Mr. Nachman has a perfect right to write whatever he wants, however most papers, including this one, generally lets its readers know any agenda a letter writer may have. Otherwise they should publish them as an opinion piece instead of a LTE. I found it extremely amusing that after revealing only a portion of Mr. Nachman's background, leblanc accuses me of being a xenophobe. The irony of it all.

jalbrecht's picture
verified

Paul Nachman has a much storied past

By Jonathan Albrecht, verified user — Thu, 02/09/2012 - 12:11

Paul Nachman is a featured writer on VDARE.com (named for Virginia Dare the first English Child born in Virginia 1587) The site and its editor are well known anti-immigrant propagandists who spend a good deal of time explaining why they are not white supremists and anti-semities even though they have been identified as such by reputable organizations like the Southern Poverty Law Center.
Actually, Mr. Nachman's letter says almost nothing. He agrees with the previous letter's author that the law prevents federal payments to illegal immigrants for medical care. He then suggest that illegal payments might be made because illegal immigrants illegally are paid for jobs they can't legally hold.
First, undocumented immigrants are not criminals. They have broken no criminal law. They have broken federal "civil" law.
Then he suggests that if the Affordable Care Act had mandated the use of the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements online program to confirm that a noncitizen applicant for benefits resides in the U.S. legally, then undocumented immigrants would be prevented from getting these benefits. Why would that work? If these people are breaking the law to be here, why wouldn't they get illegal documentation that would let them get jobs and benefits. Fact is they do. Plus nothing in the Affordable Care Act says the government won't use this system. The act merely leaves open the "how" so the government can choose the best system at the time to verify proper payments.
You have to be paranoid to read into this any problem. OOps, guess that's obvious.

mgr's picture
verified

And there is no Medicare

By Mark Gravel, verified user — Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:28

And there is no Medicare fraud either.

Given the Federal Government’s current track record at enforce similar laws; there is a high probability of fraud, part of which could be providing services to undocumented immigrants.

Regardless of Mr. Nachman’s affiliation and considering the Government’s track record, his assertions are plausible and likely.

jalbrecht's picture
verified

of course their is fraud.

By Jonathan Albrecht, verified user — Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:34

So what. That's what I meant by Mr. Nachman's letter meaning almost nothing. Of course, there is fraud and some undocumented immigrants will benefit from fraud. So. As long as thee Government does what reasonably can be done to control fraud it isn't an issue because no matter what is done the cost of proventing the fraud will exceed the benefit of preventing it. What sensde does it make to spend $100 t save $95.

mgr's picture
verified

The cost of Medicare fraud

By Mark Gravel, verified user — Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:54

The cost of Medicare fraud today is estimated to be $60Billion for which the Federal Government does little about. That amount is nothing to ignore, especially when $0.38 of every federal dollar spent is borrowed.

While we agree there will be fraud in oBamaCare, we both cannot make assertions to its magnitude since we cannot attempt to measure it at this point.

Perhaps you don’t care about the waste, cost, or fraud with Medicare or evolving oBamaCare, some of us do, particularly if we are paying for it.

Let me reiterate – the Government is has an abysmal track record when it comes to financial responsibility and efficiency, I expect no improvements.

Perhaps that is okay for people receiving the benefit but pays not.

jalbrecht's picture
verified

I agree with your $60 billion

By Jonathan Albrecht, verified user — Thu, 02/09/2012 - 15:00

That is the size of the problem. $60 billion out of about $551 billion in expenditures about 11%.
Let's understand what Medicare Fraud and Asbuse is. Medicare Fraud and Abuse is any billinging to Medicare that covers services not delivered or a service that was delivered but was unnecessary or inappropriate (given to someone not qualified for the service.
The mismatch of qualified people to services is low, technical, and almost always caught after the fact by computers. Its the error rate of medicare and will never be zero but also may reach the point where its not worth pursuing if the costs to pursue are high.
The major medicare fraud is provider mis-billing that is separated between deliberate fraud and provider billing errors. Our Speaker of the House can speak to this since he misbilled Medicare by $1.6 million. He claims it was an error (billing for one class of product when really a different class was provided). Most of the provider errors are caught in the billing process. What remains is deliberate fraud.
For the first time and about time, the Obama administration has elevated Medicare Fraud and Abuse to a cabinet position. The HEAT team of cabinet officers was established in 2009 to specifically address and presecute deliberate fraud. Its done some good but not enough.
But Medicare Fraud and Abuse is about errors in the billing process. The $60 billion does not refer to expenditures. It refers to billing errors. In 2010 "improper payments" were about $48 billion of which an unknown amount were later found to be correct and proper.
Columbia Healthcare paid about a billion dollars in fines and penalties a few years back for deliberate fraud.
ut medicare was set up for fast and easy payments to providers not for verification. As time has gone on the system is being changed to put more and more emphasis on proper payments. So its not like little is being done. Just that much more needs to be done.
The fundamental point tho' is that patients are almost never involved in fraud.

mgr's picture
verified

I think you hit on part of

By Mark Gravel, verified user — Thu, 02/09/2012 - 16:02

I think you hit on part of the problem. When you talk about waste and fraud in the Billions, and then trivializing it by converting into a small percentage of the overall budget is being disingenuous. A Billion here and there is still a lot of money.

Trivializing this waste is an illustration of Government inefficiency and contempt for the taxpayer; you wonder why there is opposition to new taxes.

The Government is overreaching, and they are outside their span of control; therefore, we can expect the waste and fraud to continue if not get worse. OBamaCare is simply opens the door to more opportunity.

jalbrecht's picture
verified

Its not trivvializing it

By Jonathan Albrecht, verified user — Thu, 02/09/2012 - 16:44

Hey, I throw in 11% that doesn't override the rest of the comment. 11% is huge. That's why I talked about what they have recently done to improve it.
But you reaction is based not on the numbers, but on your assumptions. "Government is overreaching" that's an assumption or better yet your bias. "they are outside their span of control". Again a bias or at best an assumption. Have you tested their "span of control". Do you really know its breath? Based on these two untested and untestable assumptions you reach the conclusion that waste and fraud will continue or get worse." "ObamaCare is simply opens the door to more opportunity" Again a conclusion with no support at all.
You have to know the capabilities of Federal systems and be able to test them to make the judgements you are. When Medicare was implemented Federal "span of control" was very low. A top of the line computer system used tape for I/O. The legislation gave them 6-12 months to implement new features/programs. Current computer systems are thousands of time more productive. Project development techniques are orders of magnitude better. And the Affordable Care Act staged implementation over a number of years. True these systems process millions of transactions per day and thats a real task for any operation. But they have the tools to do it today that they didn't have in the 1960's. The "span of control" today is huge. A medicare for everyone program is very doable. Minimimzing errors is very doable. Checking and preventing deliberate fraud is very doable today (credit card fraud detection is orders of magnitude better than just a few years ago). The Affordable Care Act provides te opportunity to greatly reduce real fraud. Nothing will reduce error too much.

mgr's picture
verified

You claim that I’m biased?

By Mark Gravel, verified user — Thu, 02/09/2012 - 23:19

You claim that I’m biased? Guilty as charged.

I’m biased toward smaller Government.
I’m biased toward a balanced budget.
I’m biased toward freedom of choice and against mandates, and more.

National debt will soon pass GDP.
Total of $61.6 Trillion in unfunded liabilities with $5.3 Trillion promised this year alone.
Debt ceiling will be raised another 1.6 Trillion.
Unfunded wars.
Underfunded prescription drug plan.
Postal services on going bankrupt.
Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac going bankrupt
Taxpayer’s money lost on green energy projects, such as Solyndra.
Now - oBamaCare.

I can probably go on, but this is sure a good start showing the Government has overreached don’t you think?

veritas's picture
verified

What do you expect with the

By Ronald Riml, verified user — Fri, 02/10/2012 - 00:33

Reagan tax cuts, Bush I tax cut, Bush II (temporary Bwa-ha-haa-haaa!!!) tax cuts...

You forgot those, Mark...

mgr's picture
verified

Ronald, If you have not

By Mark Gravel, verified user — Fri, 02/10/2012 - 03:06

Ronald,
If you have not noticed, everything I’ve listed is a growth in the size of government, a growth in government spending or a program in crisis.

A tax cut does not belong in that list. While a tax cut may grow the size of the national debt, a tax cut does not necessarily grow the size of government nor does it increase spending.

Moreover, you selectively forgot to add your favorites, Bill Clinton and Obama, to your list of tax cutting presidents. Any reason why? Maybe your Cuban pharmacist is giving you placeboes!

veritas's picture
verified

Irresponsible Tax Cuts

By Ronald Riml, verified user — Fri, 02/10/2012 - 10:41

Grow the size of debt and interest payments - Exactly what you are railing against.

Your insurance (mob) based health care is costing you about twice the percentage of GDP than a national health care system is.

mgr's picture
verified

Ronald, I do rail about debt

By Mark Gravel, verified user — Fri, 02/10/2012 - 11:06

Ronald,

I do rail about debt growth, but the intention of this thread was to show Alan how the government is currently overarching its span of control. That is, how successful (or unsuccessful) the government manages its programs.

My healthcare arguments have never supported the current cost structure. My healthcare arguments have more to do with oBamaCare being the wrong solution, and in general, government controlled healthcare being the wrong solution. Anyhow, that is a topic for another day.

veritas's picture
verified

Mark - Do you think it would be possible

By Ronald Riml, verified user — Fri, 02/10/2012 - 11:45

Do you think it would be possible to ever find a study on Government(s) under-reaching their 'Span of Control?'

mgr's picture
verified

No, and that should speak

By Mark Gravel, verified user — Fri, 02/10/2012 - 12:17

No, and that should speak volumes :)

veritas's picture
verified

It should speak volumes

By Ronald Riml, verified user — Fri, 02/10/2012 - 12:46

that a certain segment never considers restoring historic tax rates.

mgr's picture
verified

Perhaps there is general

By Mark Gravel, verified user — Fri, 02/10/2012 - 13:22

Perhaps there is general feeling that Government should first cut waste and fraud, as well as eliminate the plethora of subsidies to business, and cut foreign aid before approaching the taxpayer palms up.

Other things that need to be done are as follows:

1. Cap spending to, say, 15% GDP. If the government wants more revenue, then they have to grow GDP.
2. Eliminate baseline budgeting practices.

After the above is complete, then we can discuss priorities and where to spend the available money, and yes, if single payer healthcare fit into the above framework, I would support it.

Lastly, don't forget that historically, the income tax rate was once zero. You might want to pin-point the time in history, but I knew what you meant - Clinton tax rates.

veritas's picture
verified

First do...

By Ronald Riml, verified user — Fri, 02/10/2012 - 13:34

First do.....?

You've got to do things simultaneously. We are capable of 'multi-tasking, I believe.

Old proverb - "Pray to God, but keep rowing to shore."

mgr's picture
verified

No, keep first things first.

By Mark Gravel, verified user — Fri, 02/10/2012 - 16:21

No, keep first things first.

First define the sand box (i.e. cap on spending as a percent of GDP), then let the kids play (i.e. compete for the available revenue).

Keep the concepts simple and measureable.

veritas's picture
verified

Sorry;

By Ronald Riml, verified user — Fri, 02/10/2012 - 16:44

You've got to eat, breathe, pee, drink, sleep, poop - all in the course of a day.

mgr's picture
verified

Yes, but I don’t poop and

By Mark Gravel, verified user — Fri, 02/10/2012 - 17:17

Yes, but I don’t poop and sleep simultaneously. I poop first, and then I sleep or I sleep first, and then I poop.

Perhaps I will poop and sleep simultaneously when I each your age, but not yet.

The takeaway should be do not discuss how much to spend and where to spend it simultaneously. First decide how much to spend, and then decide where to spend it. This can take place in the course of a day.
However, like pooping and sleeping simultaneously, it is not advised since it tends to complicate the two tasks.

mgr's picture
verified

Correction - that is $60

By Mark Gravel, verified user — Thu, 02/09/2012 - 14:48

Correction - that is $60 Billion per year!!!

veritas's picture
verified

Another good reason.....

By Ronald Riml, verified user — Thu, 02/09/2012 - 15:23

"While Medicare fraud is a national scourge, found primarily in large urban areas, federal authorities said the very worst of it these days is in South Florida— particularly in Miami-Dade County. Most of these schemes, they said, are found in the cities of Miami and Hialeah, where they are often concentrated in parts of the Cuban immigrant community." - see --> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22184921/ns/nightly_news/t/blatant-medicare-...

Time to end our embargo on Cuba and let these people go back home where they have Government provided health-care.....

mgr's picture
verified

Ronald, Don’t worry. We are

By Mark Gravel, verified user — Thu, 02/09/2012 - 23:21

Ronald,
Don’t worry. We are on the fast track for importing the Cuban standard of living to the U.S.

veritas's picture
verified

And the problem with that???

By Ronald Riml, verified user — Fri, 02/10/2012 - 00:28

And the problem with that??? They have govt. health care.

What Cuba Can Teach Us About Health Care

"Despite a 50-year trade embargo by the United States and a post-Soviet collapse in international support, the impoverished nation has developed a world-class health care system. Average life expectancy is 77.5 years, compared to 78.1 years in the United States, and infant and child mortality rates match or beat our own. There’s one doctor for every 170 people, more than twice the per-capita U.S. average.

Not everything is perfect in Cuba. There are shortages of medicines, and the best care is reserved for elites. But it’s still a powerful feat. “In Cuba, a little over $300 per person is spent on health care each year. In the U.S., we’re spending over $7,000 per person,” said Drain, co-author of Caring for the World and an essay published April 29 in Science. “They’re able to achieve great health outcomes on a modest budget.”

Frostproof's picture
verified

Shoot the messenger.

By Mike LeBlanc, verified user — Thu, 02/09/2012 - 08:00

Once again, Breton has no argument to counter the opinion expressed in the letter, so he wants the newspaper to investigate the author. What's next? Perhaps a one way ticket to an attitude adjustment camp out in the gulag?

Doing the work Breton refuses to do, Dr. Nachman is a professor of physics at Montana State University. Is that enough investigation?

Breton just can't stand it when someone uses facts and logic to explode one of his leftist fantasies.

mgr's picture
verified

I’m always amazed how people

By Mark Gravel, verified user — Thu, 02/09/2012 - 10:39

I’m always amazed how people of liberal persuasion, who purport to be “tolerant and compassionate”, get so riled up to an opposing opinion.

tron's picture

I wonder why someone from

By tron, unverified — Thu, 02/09/2012 - 10:24

I wonder why someone from MONTANA is writing letters to the editor a MAINE paper, especially when he has no expertize in the topic he's writing about. MANY organizations have writing campaigns and usually the editorial staff weeds them out. Don't you wonder why a physics professor in Montana is even reading the SJ? I do.

Robert61's picture

This makes twice in a month

By Robert61, unverified — Fri, 02/10/2012 - 19:10

This makes twice in a month that Jethro has questioned whether people who do not live here should be commenting...using the "Jethro argument" why should we then allow people from AUBURN, EAST BOOTHBAY or DIXFIELD to comment on LEWISTON items? hmmmm....Now go back and look at all the LTTE's that were written by people outside our state whose viewpoints more align with those liberal layabouts here and you'll note the absense of any questioning of their motive or locale....yup...the new liberal mantra....

veritas's picture
verified

Why are

By Ronald Riml, verified user — Fri, 02/10/2012 - 00:36

Why are people from Montana writing letters to Maine????

Because they don't want the sheep reading them back home.

tron's picture

you made me smile this

By tron, unverified — Fri, 02/10/2012 - 09:55

you made me smile this morning, ron, good job

Frostproof's picture
verified

You need treatment for xenophobia.

By Mike LeBlanc, verified user — Thu, 02/09/2012 - 10:57

That's Greek for "fear of people from away." It was just a week or so ago that you said exactly the same thing about someone in Wyoming. Get a grip, Dan. You're using the internet, which makes the world a very small place.

veritas's picture
verified

I encounter that quite frequently

By Ronald Riml, verified user — Thu, 02/09/2012 - 15:26

Xenophobia - Fear of PFA's

"Go back home, Flatlander!!"

tron's picture

Would the SJ please

By tron, unverified — Thu, 02/09/2012 - 01:24

Would the SJ please investigate why this person is writing to the editor. Is he some shill being paid by the RNC?

Advertisement

opinion
Politicians should stick to their duties
More in opinion

business
Farmer's Market opening day
More in business

sports
Softball: Eddies red light Blue Devils
More in sports

lifestyle
Present Company will kick off 'Music for Mavis' concerts
More in lifestyle