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R. Wing: No to wind power

Reginald Wing
Letters |
Sunday, February 12, 2012

With regard to wind power — no one wants it in their back yard. Everyone, it seems, would be OK with it if it were in the other guy's face.

Wind power has been advocated for a number of years by those who want the government to fund it, so as to enrich themselves. If it were profitable, private money would be in it.

This nation is broke and living on borrowed funds. It truly cannot continue to borrow money to fill the pockets of those who favor a socialist agenda.

Reginald Wing, Peru

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Blueyes1119's picture
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Steve Dosh of Hawaii

By Brad Blake, verified user — Sun, 02/12/2012 - 23:41

I see a photo of whom I assume is you at Carry Ponds, Maine from 1977 on your Facebook page. Looked like you had a great time cross country skiing! Remeber how gorgeous, wild, and quiet the Carry Ponds are? All will be shattered when the ridges to the south of these ponds are blasted away and leveled and dozens of 459 foot tall wind turbines dominate viewshed. This is a huge project proposed by the same company that built the Record Hill project in Roxbury that clearly marrs the viewshed from the AT on Badl Pate Mt. and Tumbledown Mt. Preserve. None of these turbines will generate even 30% capacity factor and the unreliable power is not needed in the New England grid. Do you really want to sit out there in Hawaii and criticize the efforts of Maine residents to stop this destruction of what makes Maine so beautiful and unique?

Jason's picture
verified

This si why 80%+ favor wind mills.

By Jason Theriault, verified user — Mon, 02/13/2012 - 13:10

See, you side might have some good points that could sway some people. But you come out saying "All will be shattered when the ridges to the south of these ponds are blasted away and leveled and dozens of 459 foot tall wind turbines dominate viewshed"

That to me screams "NIMBY" and not "Wind mills are not a viable alternative". And when I hear "NIMBY", I think "Too bad, get a new back yard"

I've said this a few time - show me a peer reviewed study saying these are harmful or inefficiency. Otherwise, your just wasting your time.

Blueyes1119's picture
verified

No NIMBY

By Brad Blake, verified user — Tue, 02/14/2012 - 01:20

That trite term is way over used, but I will say that wind turbines belong in NO YARD---back yard, front yard, side yard, or on any of Maine's uplands. The proliferation of industrial wind turbines will ruin Maine's quality of place and the sprawling footprint is devastating to the environment.

If you want information on efficiency, just spend time on the USEIA website. It is all there, including an average of 27% capacity factor for all installed wind turbines in the USA, compared to 60% CF for hydro and more than 90 % for nuclear, natural gas, and coal. Just why do you think that less than 2% of our electricity comes from wind? We would have neither our economic strength as a nation nor our lifestyle without the energy dense sources powering it.

Jason's picture
verified

I have been to eia.gov

By Jason Theriault, verified user — Tue, 02/14/2012 - 11:32

And I think the more important figure is the cost per kilowatt.

First, these are levelized costs, meaning that they have removed any benefit from tax credits or whatnot. Now, as it stands, Wind is comparable to Coal, and only a little less than hydro. It beats the pants off of nuclear and the other green sources.

I'm not saying you can replace everything with wind. I think installing more hydro plants where you can is a better idea. But I think wind has a place, and I challege anyone to cite evidence to prove that wind is a bad idea.

And I want reputable sources. You start citing studies from wind-watch.org or windtaskforce.org, I will just ignore them. I want peer reviewed studies.

gempaint's picture
verified

nimby

By Alice Barnett, verified user — Mon, 02/13/2012 - 15:59

Not In Maine's Back Yard. Thousands of them Jason, thousands...too much ....Maine will be ruined for tourism. I hear complaints from Sunday River skiers all ready.

Why do you want to kill Maine?

Jason's picture
verified

So Maine is just tourism?

By Jason Theriault, verified user — Mon, 02/13/2012 - 21:57

I don't want to kill Maine. I want Maine to thrive, which mean developing other industries other than tourism. Maybe I want more opportunities for my kids in state other than to be a ski lift operator at Sunday River. I dunno, I'm just silly that way.

That's half the reason we're in the budget mess we are - when times get tough, the first thing that takes a hit is tourism. We need an economy based less on tourism and more on growth industries.

Hey, you have a better idea for new industries to bring to the state? If not, is your view worth killing the state over, because we are dying a slow death. The state is only getting older, and my generation has left the state in droves because the only industry is tourism. Faced with that, most head south to New Hampshire and the Boston area for much better prospects.

So why do YOU want to kill the state?

gempaint's picture
verified

real estate

By Alice Barnett, verified user — Tue, 02/14/2012 - 09:14

Real Estate in Maine goes up in value every year.
The town of Carthage alone doubled in value in ten years.
I live on a dirt road (un maintained) and have seen 11 new cabins built in ten years.

Real Estate needs management as well as tourism. Jobs in management.

So few jobs in GRID scale WIND turbines...Yet the amount needed will devalue all property with-in sight.

GRID scale WIND causes temporary jobs,,,,

real estate at stake here.

Blueyes1119's picture
verified

Maine isn't dying

By Brad Blake, verified user — Tue, 02/14/2012 - 01:33

Maine isn't dying, though we have lost many traditional manufacturing. What hurts this state is the high taxes and poor business climate from 40 years of Democratic control. (Disclosure, I am an enrolled Democrat). The spiral of electricity costs started in Gov, now wind developer, Angus King's administration. The worst was Baldacci, who got Maine in RGGI & rammed through the heinous wind power act through an ignorant legislature in the waning hours of the short term session in April 1998. The biggest hurdle to locating new industry in Maine is the cost of energy and the inept way we match training & education with the jobs. If we go ahead with mandating more "renewable" electricity (which means wind), high electricity users like Fairchild and National Semiconductor will leave, as these companies are constantly being lured to other states in the predatory economic development competition.
Last point. Don't disparage Sunday River. They employ 300+ people full time, year round and 1,000 people seasonally directly in their operation That doesn't include the huge multiplier effect on the region's economy. Those jobs at Sunday River are three times the number of full time maintenance jobs that will be generated from the build out of the state's goal for on-shore wind.

Jason's picture
verified

Yes, poor business climate.

By Jason Theriault, verified user — Tue, 02/14/2012 - 11:43

I love how on one hand you complain of the poor business climate, then argue about maintaining it by preventing companies from creating jobs and investing in the state. And the reason we have crazy electrical costs is that we are paying for a nuclear reactor that was shutdown too early, way before it was paid off because no one wanted a nuclear reactor in their back yard. Had the state stood up to the NIMBY's in Maine, we would still be getting power from Maine Yankee, and rates would be lower. The same point goes for wind. I'm not saying we should be mandating any green power, but if someone buys the land and wants to make a wind farm, I am all for it. If you don't want to let them, buy the land off them.

And lastly, I'm not disparaging Sunday River. I just don't want a tourism based economy. That's a formula for stagnant growth and low wages. There is a reason the best and brightest go south, and I want to change that. But that wont happen if the only jobs available to our kids are low paying service industry jobs that dominate the tourism economy.

gempaint's picture
verified

Maine Yankee et. al.

By Alice Barnett, verified user — Wed, 02/15/2012 - 09:16

Jason, Maine Yankee, bio mass, all these experiments add to your electric bill.
Stop experimenting on a mass scale. Go try the tidal machines. If they don't work take them out.
Thousands and thousands of 500 + foot WIND machines. Will ruin the Real Estate Market in Maine.

1. Reliability Maine; 8% of $30 billion for Maine would be $2.4 billion in expense for Maine ratepayers. = rate hike = 2.400,000,000 / 560,000 = $4,2857 per household.
2. Efficiency Maine , a program that places a surtax on everyone's electric bill. That's an increase = rate hike.
3.Add a cent of stranded cost(biomass 1980's) to your per kilowatt hour charges—‘cha-ching’.
4. Shutting Maine Yankee before its expected lifetime added one cent to two cents to your bill--"cha-cjing'
5. The Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGGI) pushed by the NRCM——add another cent.--‘cha-ching’
6. Capacity payments, the payments made to standby-on-demand industrial and commercial electricity producers, yep, pushed by these environmentalists. One cent more—‘cha-ching’.
7. Long-term contracts to the wind industry and conservation charges lobbied for by NRCM employees—another cent, ‘cha-ching’.

hawaiian's picture
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R. Wing: No to wind power

By Steve Dosh, verified user — Sun, 02/12/2012 - 19:06

Reginald Wing , Peru ME u s a 12.02.12 13:05 hst • 
. ..umm. . we think u r gravely wrong ( respectfully submitted :)
Have you ever heard of a TX businessman by the name of Tom Boone Pickens ?
Study up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickens_Plan " He was a well-known takeover operator and corporate raider during the 1980s . With an estimated current net worth of about $1.4 billion, he is ranked by Steve Forbes , capitalist tool , as the 328th-richest person in America and ranked 879th in the world ." ( ≠ same citation )
He made his money by blowing smoke and hot air , also
h t h , /s, Dr. Dosh http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/

Blueyes1119's picture
verified

Pickens

By Brad Blake, verified user — Sun, 02/12/2012 - 23:01

First, you lose credibility by citing wikipedia as a source. As a very well researched critic of the wind industry, I have made several attempts to enter information on wind power in Maine on wilipedia, never to be added by the censors. Unknown to most people, wikipedia does have a political/social agenda and woe to those who disagree on one of those issues and wind power is one of them.

Now, on to Pickens. He has walked away from his plan for wind turbines. He decided it isn't cost effective and he doesn't want to get caught with a huge investment in such a marginal industry should the Production Tax Credits get eliminated. He is, still, an oil and gas man and he knows these stable, productive energy dense sources are the horses to ride on the Texas range.

Jason's picture
verified

Really?

By Jason Theriault, verified user — Mon, 02/13/2012 - 22:11

Umm, sorry, but Wikipedia is pretty fair about such stuff. How about this, post you info here. I have been challenging those who oppose windpower to prove to me it's not a NIMBY thing. My only requirement to read it is that it must be peer reviewed.

Blueyes1119's picture
verified

Not Just Taxpayer Subsidies

By Brad Blake, verified user — Sun, 02/12/2012 - 16:21

Mr. Wing, you've sure got it right about an industry that wouldn't exist without unduly heavy subsidization. But the Socialist agenda doesn't stop there. It is the mandates found in "Renewable Portfolio Standards" that dictate the electricity industry must include arbitrary percentages of "renewable" energy and force ratepayers to pay higher costs which is driving the proliferation of the wind folly as much as subsidies. We get whacked twice---as taxpayers and ratepayers---for a useless form of electricity generation that we don't need.

Robert61's picture

I again call on the LSJ to do

By Robert61, unverified — Sun, 02/12/2012 - 11:00

I again call on the LSJ to do an economics side of wind power today...the cost of the towers, installation, land acquisition & maintenance, offset by most being only about 40% efficient due to lack of wind and maintenance time..and then compare that to the rates taxpayers must pay to have them....the payback on these towers is almost three times their expected lifespan....but no one wants to question the money people like Obama and Baldacci are giving away to these people in subsidies....

Robert61's picture

Perhaps these blogs would be

By Robert61, unverified — Sun, 02/12/2012 - 16:00

Perhaps these blogs would be better if you could see who clicked like vs dislike...I simply call for an economic report due to the massive subsidies and someone clicks dislike...and we all know who that particular person is right Jethro/Danielle?

preaves's picture
staff

Admin warning

By Pattie Reaves, verified user — Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:41

Bob, namecalling is not allowed. If you continue to do that, I will ban your account.

Robert61's picture

Pattie, please feel free to

By Robert61, unverified — Tue, 02/14/2012 - 22:33

Pattie, please feel free to share with the bloggers exactly who I namecalled....I simply pointed out who the first offender might be, and as there is no one posting here under either of those names, I don't possibly see how i could have offended anyone....oh and as the LSJ has a policy of open and full disclosure of who is posting as part of the requirement to be able to post...how about a similar policy to share with us exactly who made the complaint....

hawaiian's picture
verified

Bob 12.02.12 13:30 hst ≠ 

By Steve Dosh, verified user — Sun, 02/12/2012 - 19:16

Bob 12.02.12 13:30 hst ≠ 
. . ..Um , like the LSJ® is a Democracy , councilman Reed ? It isn't . It's a privately owned firm . They can like or dislike whomever they want to √ Post a picture . It's rather E Z to do . ...
b t w - your State's Governor's Office has the study you want . Go get it . It's ƒree to all tax paying citizens . And here : click this for more factual & ƒree data http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_Maine
h t h ∞ /s, Dr. Dosh
[ Thank goodness for " The Fourth Estate ." This is an excellent newspaper . We can not w a i t to see the discussion surrounding Mitt Romney's recent pyrric victory . . . *<;]

Robert61's picture

Dosh...what??? 1. Yes its a

By Robert61, unverified — Sun, 02/12/2012 - 22:37

Dosh...what???

1. Yes its a representative democracy...I did not say they could not dislike I just asked them to have the guts to say who they are...oh wait you like things in secret..and besides according to certain liberals here you should not be allowed to blog because you do not live here...

2. The Governors report...uh you mean Baldacci and his friends in wind power a couple years ago...I'll pass thanks...that report is full of more hot air and less wind...

3. This newspaper only seems to be excellent when it says something the lbierals agree with, any other time sits referred to as a rag...go figure...

I do miss Hawaii, was a greta place to visit.

gempaint's picture
verified

bravo

By Alice Barnett, verified user — Sun, 02/12/2012 - 09:54

Thousands and thousands of GRID scale WIND turbines are needed to replace that one Gas plant in Rumford. Oh, that's right; gas plants are needed for rampong up and down to allow WIND onto the GRID.

Mainers, 1000MW = 4000 MW nameplate capacity from WIND turbines.

Everywhere we look we will see the likes of Record Hill and larger and noisier.

Companies tell us thay cannot find parcels of land without a resident affected with=in 4000 feet from their projects.

Sound modeling maps will show you 35-45 dBa at one mile limit.

Make your ordinance strong; protect your people and this great state.

hawaiian's picture
verified

Alice , Sunday 1:30 pm hst

By Steve Dosh, verified user — Sun, 02/12/2012 - 19:28

Alice , Sunday 1:30 pm hst • 
That's all and good . It does burn clean . You get propane natural gas ( L N G ) from the same place as us and we all get our US Navy destroyers : Lake Charles , LA and not Bath Iron Works , ME . In fact , we are all for the Passamoquoddy , Penobscot , Mic-Macs , Maliseet , Abenaki , and other indigenous tribes located they'ya in Maine having jurisdiction over their rightful ports to bring these huge , unweildy L N G ships in to Maine from Louisiana and overseas from foreign countries . Ever pumped ' pane ? ' Neither have we . We get gasoline and oil from la Canada and Alaska here in the 50 th state , celebrating 50 years of statehood • Alo'ha from Pahoa :) /s, Steve Dosh and ohana http://www.hawaiiankingdom.org/ :)

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