Letters

Don't believe the hype

By Rep. Larry Sirois

Aug 31, 2009 12:53 am

Tax reform has been a contentious issue during the last year. The Maine Legislature struggled with it, found a compromise, and now the new law is being challenged with a people's veto effort. I have been involved in the issue throughout the process as a member of the Legislature's Taxation Committee.

Wherever citizens end up on this issue, what has been unacceptable is the scare tactics that have been employed by some of those who oppose the package. What is most appalling is that the negative claims about the law, which are completely and blatantly false, have been made by people who know they are false. People are lying to the public about what the bill does, and they are doing it on purpose.

I was recently forwarded a copy of an e-mail from a former member of the Legislature that seems to have been forwarded to a wide audience. The e-mail claimed both that the homestead property tax exemption would be eliminated and that haircuts would be taxed. Both claims are categorically false and an example of someone trying to confuse and deceive people on an already complicated topic.

People should not believe the hype and the mudslinging. Tax reform will lower overall taxes on the vast majority of Mainers, and it will lower the state's income tax rate, which is sixth highest in the nation, to the middle of the pack. Those are worthy goals, and anyone opposing the package should do so based on facts, not misinformation.

Rep. Larry Sirois, Turner

Member, Committee on Taxation

Comments

For momof4 and David

Submitted by veritas on Tue, 09/01/2009 - 08:53.

For momof4 and David Hughes

It's a sad day when the opposition has to do your research for you. David complains that he shouldn't have to spoon feed me information.

No, you don't have to spoon feed me anything to bolster MY position, but when debating, you should be prepared back up YOUR position with 'Book, Chapter, and Verse" so to speak.

There are no referees here. No one to call strikes, balls, and outs. Had there been - and I've twenty years of being required to provide evidence - proof - in court - before a judge, subject to cross-examination by opposing counsel - your weight of evidence would have been found sorely lacking.

You had nothing but hearsay, while I presented the law, Chapter and Section, which state that the Homestead Exemption shall be $13,000. I both quoted it and presented a link. A full link.

David did state that it was in LD353. Now that's a start. What he didn't do was tell us that Sec. YYY-1. of LD 353 states: 36 MRSA §683, sub-§1, as repealed and replaced by PL 2005, c. 2, Pt. F, §1 and affected by §5, is amended......

and then goes into the language to amend the Homestead Exemption from $13,000 to $10,000 flor permanent residents.

Sec. YYY-2. Application. That section of this Part that amends the Maine Revised Statutes,
Title 36, section 683, subsection 1 applies to property tax years beginning April 1, 2010.

So momof4 was correct - and I was wrong.

But why should it be like pulling teeth to merely ask the opposing viewpoint to document their position? I've never heard so many lame azz excuses.

http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/bills/bills_124th/
chappdfs/PUBLIC213.pdf
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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

Everybody else was talking

Submitted by Lil on Tue, 09/01/2009 - 11:12.

Everybody else was talking about LD1495, including the letter writer. How does repealing 1495 affect the homestead credit?
______________________

"We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give."
Winston Churchill

If you were doing my

Submitted by David Hughes on Tue, 09/01/2009 - 10:21.

If you were doing my research for me why do you credit me with providing the reference to the LD in question? I'm not before a court, I'm on a public message board on the internet where, by definition, we know for sure that the reader has ready access to search tools. Is it really a burden on the reader, or the opposing side, to goggle "Maine LD 353" click the link to the past session and then do a simple text search for "homestead"? Do you want your two minutes back?

I think all of us here understand that context matters. I think we all understand that anyone can quote just the portions of a reference that support their own position or agenda. Isn't in better for everyone if we all just go see it for ourselves? Not only so that we know we are getting a complete picture but also in what context?

If hearsay is citing the legislative source then I'm left to wonder how many of the clients you have represented before a judge have claim for inadequate representation. You can't claim hearsay AND credit me with citing the legislative source.

So veritas, why do you think the Democrats decided to lower the Homestead exemption? It Didn't impact state revenue to any great degree and that impact was in a negative manner at a time when the state was looking for more dollars not less. The effect is to raise property taxes, one of the more regressive taxes, at a time when people are already struggling. Care to enter a guess as to why the Democrats would do that? Like I said veritas, context matters. In politics very little happens in a vacuum.

You cited a legislative act,

Submitted by veritas on Tue, 09/01/2009 - 12:24.

You cited a legislative act, but certainly not the reference to the particular action you referred to.

Unless you do, how is one to know whether or not it is even included in that act??

Same rules of debate apply on a message board as in court: The burden of proof is on the claimant. You tossed a claim out there, but weren't willing to back it up.

BTW - you didn't cite the source - you merely stated what act it could be found in. Big difference.

And no - I wasn't a lawyer. I was a cop - and a damn good one, patrol, supervisor, detective, and administration - in a rough and tumble high crime city just south of Chicago. I could wrap a case so tightly that most defense attorneys had no choice but to plead their client out for the best deal the States' Attorney would offer.

I did admit momof4 was correct in what the recently passed LD353 stated - and I provided the section number - and a quote. Something none of you were either willing or able to do. If you want to debate - fine, but don't base your argument on hearsay - and be able to back it up with cites and links. You were either unable or unwilling to do either.

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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

So you didn't actually read

Submitted by David Hughes on Tue, 09/01/2009 - 13:23.

So you didn't actually read what I wrote...again.

Do I need to copy and paste my own stuff explaining myself again? Or do we just leave it be and let the readers think that you prematurely jumped on mom0f4 and dislike having been wrong? I do appreciate that you have admitted you were wrong. That is more than I expected and does speak well of you generally.

The rules of debate are not the same rules as exist in court. That's just an outlandish assertion. Should we start holding politicians in contempt of debate for with holding vital information? What about outright lies like the existence of "death panels"? Should those politicians be held in contempt of debate? Free speech rights prevail in debate but have little place in court.

Again, I have to ask, do you want your two minutes back? You're a smart guy. I can't imagine it took you longer than that to find LD 353 on the net and do a simple search for the word homestead. Spoon feeding people selected quotes only leads to mischief, better to get people to take a small amount of time and get the full context themselves.

So, back to the question, why do you think the Democrats decided to lower the Homestead Exemption in a budget bill when doing so makes balancing the budget harder, not easier? Isn't the effect of a lower Homestead exemption higher property taxes? Aren't property taxes considered one of the most regressive taxes there is because there is no consideration for a persons ability to pay?

Councilor Reed should be breaking out the Tylenol. The city will get more property tax money because of the increase in the taxable valuation without having to touch the mil rate and the people will be blaming him and the other councilors, even though none of them had any part in it, for the increase in their property tax bill. How is the poor man going to explain that one to angry constituents in a convincing manner? Maybe I'll send a case of Tums to the City Council.

David - cut the BS. You

Submitted by veritas on Tue, 09/01/2009 - 20:25.

David - cut the BS. You make the claim - you provide the proof. In simple language - "Put up or shuddup"

Now - is the effect of a lower Homestead exemption higher property taxes?

Cumulatively - no. The tax bill is a composite total of that submitted by all taxing bodies: city/town, county, refuse district, school district, etc, etc. That total composite is not going to be affected by homestead exemptions; exemptions should (read should) be anticipated by the town in calculating the mil rate.

Once anticipated; the exemption would be treated as any other deduction. It doesn't cause 'higher taxes' - only more spending causes higher taxes.

Are real estate taxes 'Regressive' taxes? Depends upon what one wishes to chew off, and what the citizenry will put up with. The biggest slice of the pie goes to the schools. There's some sacred cows in that area folks won't tolerate messing with. Some of the contracts are a perfect example of "No Teacher Left Behind" with very few pay steps for professional development, but many, many more for simply being able to breathe well for another year. I've seen budget years where the cost of health insurance has gone up five figures, but they were only able to increase the budget a measly thousand or two on new textbooks, teaching supplies, and the libraries for two schools. Folks simply will not vote against waste in the schools.

I'll leave it at that for now.

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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

Veritas, while you're right

Submitted by David Hughes on Tue, 09/01/2009 - 21:09.

Veritas, while you're right when it comes to total tax commitment you're wrong in who pays the tax. As things are right now, with the state not fully funding the Homestead Exemption, a portion of the cost of the exemption is shifted onto properties that don't qualify for as a Homestead. To put it simply, with some obvious exceptions, businesses are paying more in property taxes to subsidize home owners. By lowering the amount of the Homestead Exemption some of the cost of the program is shifting back onto home owners.

It's pretty simple to understand Veritas, 13 x A will always be greater than 10 x A assuming the same value for A in the equations. Whatever next years mil rate ( we'll call that A ) ends up being the home owner who qualifies for the Homestead Exemption will be paying 3 x A more than they would have if the Democrats in Augusta had left things alone.

Since the Homeowners are paying more of a share of the total tax commitment, just who do you think it is that is paying less of a share?

The cost is shifted over ALL

Submitted by veritas on Tue, 09/01/2009 - 21:50.

The cost is shifted over ALL property, permanent homeowner and not. Higher evaluated permanent homeowners are paying a larger share along with none homeowners; for the most part this is progressive, and on a residence valued at $100,000 should be a 3% difference.
Just figured out my loss, and it will zap me a bottle of mediocre wine, crackers, and a half pound of cheese. I'm f**ked!!
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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

1) That is the first time in

Submitted by David Hughes on Tue, 09/01/2009 - 22:34.

1) That is the first time in my life I have ever heard anyone make a claim that property taxes were progressive. Even right wing whack job capitalism solves all problems Republicans aren't that bat crazy.

2) While the tax increase may not be more than a minor inconvenience to you it is a heavy burden to a lot of the seniors around here who have spent their lives building this community. What of them Veritas?

1. Do the math - the more

Submitted by veritas on Wed, 09/02/2009 - 06:11.

1. Do the math - the more expensive a property - the more the tax, and the less of a percentage effect of the homestead exemption; ie 10% effect on $100,000 property, 2% on a $500,000 property.

2. Their burden may be relieved by Maine Residents Property Tax and Rent Refund "Circuit Breaker" Program

Its funny to listen to

Submitted by joeziehmer on Tue, 09/01/2009 - 06:47.

Its funny to listen to Robert's little sidelines on being on the council remember just a few weeks ago when his email was printed trying to cut into the HUD for his side line businesses. Of course David who cannot put into sync a full HTML and progression means that there's reason to suspect a lie there. Veritas they worry about how much they make and Lil many of them hate to see a little a side line flicker fade out. Remember, what happened to the country store in Sabbatus and how much business it attracted in the State and suddenly its gone. These brave conservatives do not like discussing when businesses like those go out because then it means they have really screwed up. Councilor Reed since you tried to defraud the HUD I'll have to doubt your credibility as a human being.

Joe Ziehm
Lewiston ME

There are two kinds of Republicans in this world moderate and conservative for so long I've picked the moderate that now it is time to consider the path less traveled.

Joe, I'll assume you got me

Submitted by Robert61 on Tue, 09/01/2009 - 07:51.

Joe, I'll assume you got me mixed up with Councilor Peters who was trying to get lead abatement money from the city/fed for buildings he has actual ownership interest in and therefore would personally benefit from the grants.

Joe, while I normally can

Submitted by Robert61 on Tue, 09/01/2009 - 07:41.

Joe, while I normally can respect what you say, these comments border on slander. On behalf of my employer (which is my primary income, not a side job), I asked the city if there was still a program for facade improvements. I completely disclosed my relationship - which is that one of the owners of the business I work for is also the owner of the building, but that i get no money, kickbacks or promise of enrichment if they get money from the grant.

So please explain to me exactly how I tried to defraud HUD. Pretty strong words and I expect an answer. There is no fraud here, the city has contacted HUD and will determine if there could be a conflict of interest (there is none as I have no financial interest in the outcome). Would you pefer that we tell all businesses - please don't hire a city councilor because it may make you ineligible for federal grants that all your surrounding businesses are taking advantage of?

Don't give me an endorsement

Submitted by joeziehmer on Tue, 09/01/2009 - 08:39.

Don't give me an endorsement of false "respect", remember what you said to me about opening a five star Hilton, and much of those funding's could have been easily elected upon into home less shelters, soup kitchen, and job training programs. You didn't see me at the meetings, you were smug, and arrogant toward me when it was debated. Security, cooks, and managers can go through college, collect credits, and either stay with the company, and or change professions. When I graduate college the questions are wide and ranging for what I can do in the lives of children; those business idea's will no longer be held. If you want more job security and more people staying in Maine that could have been an idea. Bordering on the side of slander was when you also engaged me without asking me to clarify which futures were involved in the markets in professions such as that. Or, lending to which credits could have transferred we are done talking councilor I'm never going to reply or talk directly toward you, any other forum debates will be debated with others, and that's only proper given the credit and "respect" which you gave to me in hearing me out for those style of businesses. There's an old story involving my Great-Uncle Robert Ziehm the former Buffalo Bills semi-pro player, when he was given a hard time, hand wringing, and a former friend wanted him to attend a political rally, put him on the spot, and asked for ice; Robert came, with a handful of ice, and handed it to him saying there's your ice.

Joe Ziehm
Lewiston ME

There are two kinds of Republicans in this world moderate and conservative for so long I've picked the moderate that now it is time to consider the path less traveled.

OKay, so I'll take the

Submitted by Robert61 on Tue, 09/01/2009 - 09:10.

OKay, so I'll take the liberty of assuming you don't want to admit you were wrong in the accusation you made against me, fair enough. An apology would have been sufficient but I'll take the "but we disagreed on something else" line as a way to throw out a red herring. I have never seen you at a city council meeting - how could I, I have no clue who you are, if this is your real name and if you even live in Lewiston.

Here's your egg veritas,

Submitted by David Hughes on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 15:51.

Here's your egg veritas, wear it proudly.

http://www.gardinermaine.com/Public_Documents/GardinerME_Assess/HOMESTEAD

If I was a City Councilor I'd be annoyed that no one brought this to my attention yet.

You've got to use an entire

Submitted by veritas on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 18:21.

You've got to use an entire egg to make an omelet.

Have the decency to ensure an entire URL is posted.

I didn't know Gardiner took

Submitted by Lil on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 16:28.

I didn't know Gardiner took over the state. Is there a recall petition? Read the bill: http://janus.state.me.us/legis/ros/lom/LOM124th/124R1/PUBLIC382.asp
______________________

"We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give."
Winston Churchill

Lil, one of the reasons that

Submitted by David Hughes on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 17:33.

Lil, one of the reasons that confusion is easy to come by in tax law is that there are a bunch of interconnected parts. Couple that with the interconnected moving parts of legislation and it can get a little more confusing for those that are used to being spoon feed their talking points by the party they have sworn fealty to.

No, I don't expect you to understand that so I'll rephrase it in much simpler terms for you. Are you volunteering to wear veritas' egg?

When Gardiner replaces the

Submitted by Lil on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 18:25.

When Gardiner replaces the Maine legislature and starts writing the state laws, I'll take a whole dozen!
______________________

"We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give."
Winston Churchill

Nah Lil, Gardiner didn't

Submitted by David Hughes on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 18:56.

Nah Lil, Gardiner didn't replace the Maine Legislature, Gardiner is just preparing for what the Maine Legislature has done. Or are you joining the conservatives in the belief that government, in this case the city of Gardiner, can't do anything right? So out of character for you to believe that a government bureaucracy is inept. You sure you want the egg Lil? The whole dozen? Or do you just want 1 or 2 eggs and leave the rest for veritas or Albrecht?

Bottom line here is that Momof4 is correct, the homestead exemption is going down to $10,000. Equates to about $75 in higher property taxes for a Lewiston homeowner....which is amazingly close to the net "reduction" in taxes that homeowner would be paying under LD 1495.

Gosh, you folks have been snookered AGAIN! When are you going to get tired of it?

David, as the state only

Submitted by Robert61 on Tue, 09/01/2009 - 13:26.

David, as the state only truly funds the first $7K of the homestead the rest is made up by the cities shifting things around to accomplish the goal. Thus if the mill rate is around $24 and we lose $3,000 in valuation we should see a $72 hit on our taxes, but keep in mind because the towns do not actually get the money from the state they are already tax shifting be tween taxpayers thus the homeowner will be hit with a slightly haigher amount, but will also be reduced by that burden no longer being shared by all in the community. If you consider busines and non residential about half the property tax makeup in lewiston than its fairly safe to assume that they would get hit with a $72 increase less a $36 decrease from all taxpyers no longer subsidizing the homeowner. Still an increase and people will not be pleased.

I see nothing in this bill

Submitted by tron on Tue, 09/01/2009 - 14:07.

I see nothing in this bill that prevent the City Council to 1, create their own homestead exemption, or 2. to finally decrease spending to give EVERYONE a tax decrease. Of course, I won't hold my breathe with this council, all they know how to do is spend spend spend!

If the Homestead Exemption

Submitted by veritas on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 19:57.

If the Homestead Exemption were going down to $10,000 as a result of LD1495 as momof4 alleged - you'de be able to post it and the link.

So far you don't have squat.

Figures.....
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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

Momof4 hasn't alleged that

Submitted by David Hughes on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 20:33.

Momof4 hasn't alleged that LD 1495 is what lowers the Homestead Exemption. She has said that the Homestead Exemption will be lowered and she has said that if LD 1495 does pass that the Homestead exemption will stay at 10,000. It does not follow that the reduction in the Homestead Exemption, or it staying at that reduced level, has to be within LD 1495. She is stating what is and then predicting the future in her initial posts and while she may well be wrong on her prediction, she is dead right that the Homestead Exemption is going to 10,000.

Truth is, the Homestead exemption goes down from LD 353, the city of Gardiner isn't insane as Lil would have us believe and Maine Democrats have once again stuck it to fixed income and working low income folks all while telling them that they are being watched out for by Maine Democrats. That $60 senior refundable tax credit doesn't cover the $74.70 increase in property taxes that the elder home owner faces in Lewiston.

Enjoy your eggs.

David - The Homestead

Submitted by veritas on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 22:31.

David -
The Homestead Exemption IS STILL $13,000

Here's the current law AGAIN. You and momof4 can't product squat.

http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/Statutes/36/title36sec683.html

Title 36: TAXATION
Part 2: PROPERTY TAXES
Chapter 105: CITIES AND TOWNS
Subchapter 4-B: MAINE RESIDENT HOMESTEAD PROPERTY TAX EXEMPTION HEADING: PL 1997, C. 643, PT. HHH, §3 (NEW)

§683. Exemption of homesteads

1. Exemption amount. Except for assessments for special benefits, the just value of $13,000 of the homestead of a permanent resident of this State who has owned a homestead in this State for the preceding 12 months is exempt from taxation. In determining the local assessed value of the exemption, the assessor shall multiply the amount of the exemption by the ratio of current just value upon which the assessment is based as furnished in the assessor's annual return pursuant to section 383. If the title to the homestead is held by the applicant jointly or in common with others, the exemption may not exceed $13,000 of the just value of the homestead, but may be apportioned among the owners who reside on the property to the extent of their respective interests.
A municipality responsible for administering the homestead exemption has no obligation to create separate accounts for each partial interest in a homestead owned jointly or in common

When I tell you it is in LD

Submitted by David Hughes on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 23:27.

When I tell you it is in LD 353 why are you quoting me back the MRS that hasn't been updated yet? You expect us to take you seriously when you prove, time and time again, that you aren't bothering to even try to understand what it is we are saying?

Do you expect me to spoon feed you everything like you're used to? That isn't going to happen. You obviously know how to find things on the web and from the maine.gov website. You're a big boy, you can go either take me at my word or go see it for yourself. What you can't do is repeat yourself pretending that you didn't read what I wrote. That's just being deliberately obtuse.

How about this. You go on believing what you want and when you rudely discover that Momof4 was right when your property tax bill comes you can take the first opportunity to tell her so. See, that's the hard part, admitting you're wrong. The easy part is ignoring anything that doesn't agree with your preconceived notion of things.

It was funny the other day, reading Tron's diatribe about how some LTTE writer was a right wing whacko who only wanted Snowe to hold a town hall meeting so that the LTTE writer and his cronies could shout her down....the funny part was that the LTTE writer is a lefty, not a righty as Tron assumed. You, Tron, Lil and a few others you folks just come on her, read a piece and don't even bother to see if your assumptions are correct before launching into a vile screed based on half truths and little understanding. When it's clear that it is your side that is in error you folks just stay silent with your blinders on. I may not agree with Dr. Dosh much but at least he has the honesty to call out his own from time to time. You folks could learn something from him.

I expect you to be a big boy

Submitted by veritas on Tue, 09/01/2009 - 08:21.

I expect you to be a big boy and make your own case, as I expect momof4 to do the same; not keep saying the same thing over and over again without providing any outside authoritative substantiation.
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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

Here's what she wrote: "The

Submitted by Lil on Tue, 09/01/2009 - 06:20.

Here's what she wrote: "The homestead exemption will not exceed $10,000 if this crappy bill passes. Period." Doesn't agree with you're saying.
______________________

"We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give."
Winston Churchill

Lil, you're wrong. Why?

Submitted by David Hughes on Tue, 09/01/2009 - 07:26.

Lil, you're wrong. Why? Because she is predicting a result of the bill passing, not stating what the bill does. It would be similar to someone saying "Gays will die if the people veto succeeds". The gay marriage law and the people's veto effort don't call for the death of gays but that doesn't mean some whack job won't take the rejection of gay marriage as the green light to literally bash on some gays.

But hey, at least we can all agree that the Homestead Exemption is going down to 10k. BOHICA

Just another slick way of

Submitted by Pirate on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 15:47.

Just another slick way of broadening the sales tax. "The tourists will pay for it" my a**.
Even my freakin' liberal parrot can see through that little scheme from Augusta.

Heres an idea. Lets all as a

Submitted by concerned KD on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 15:15.

Heres an idea. Lets all as a collective NOT PAY TAX. Tell our politicians that if they cannot responsibly manage OUR money then they need to go. I pay all of my taxes but I am not happy with the gross missmanagement from our state and our fed. It is insane to think that the government allready gets $.40 of every dollar WE earn and now they want more, with reduced services. Does this make sense to anyone. It is the downfall of our system coming about here if we as citizens dont stand up for ourselves and our children. When will enough be enough and the people stand up to the socialists trying to take control of our country and tell us what is good for us.

If the feds were getting 40%

Submitted by veritas on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 15:29.

If the feds were getting 40% of what you earn; you wouldn't be playing on this little Fantasyland here.

Go back to 4th grade and ask the Nuns to beat you harder until you learn your percentages....

Well veritas you just showed

Submitted by concerned KD on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 16:27.

Well veritas you just showed that you are not a buisiness owner and you probably let the eagle sh*t on you every month to make ends meet. YES if you TRY to earn money in this state/ country they will combined take 40% of every dollar you make. Trust me its true. You have to remember Taxes and Fees all add up. And yes I dont care how they word it or how they dress it up. A yearly fee IS a TAX. As far as living in a fantasy land goes, I think you are the only one living the fantasy that you are more intelligent than you actually are. I know what I pay in taxes, trust me I do the math every quarter. Sorry no nuns in my education, But someone owes you some restitution for beating you senseless.

Then they are not 'Taking

Submitted by veritas on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 18:24.

Then they are not 'Taking it"

You are merely paying both ends of your own social security.

The same as I've done.
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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

V, when somebody says "trust

Submitted by Lil on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 18:27.

V, when somebody says "trust me it's true", what's your first thought?
______________________

"We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give."
Winston Churchill

Ya - right. I had to 'Prove

Submitted by veritas on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 20:00.

Ya - right.

I had to 'Prove It' in court for twenty years while getting cross-examined by the opposing attorney..

And these Rookies think they're going to put something over on me?

Get the evidence!!!

momof4 Looks like you let

Submitted by veritas on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 15:13.

momof4

Looks like you let your alligator mouth overload your hummingbird veracity....

Better luck next time.

Robert61: PLEASE ask

Submitted by momof4 on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 14:49.

Robert61: PLEASE ask someone at City Hall about the homestead plans for 2010--Exemption will be capped at 10,000.00. period.

MOm of 4 - there is no

Submitted by Robert61 on Tue, 09/01/2009 - 07:45.

MOm of 4 - there is no indication of a cap at this time, however that doesn't mean much as the governor could quickly sign an order if he got the poor revenue reports we expect to see any day.

But back to the original, capping the Homestead at $10,000 would not save the state one penny! The state actually only funds the first $7,000 and expects the towns to fund the rest so each city has to "rob Peter to pay Paul" as someone put it once. The towns simply apply a greater tax rate to everyone, give the Exemption as required by law and we all walk away thinking life is good. IN my book its just another unfunded mandate of $6,000 per home that has been passed down to us.

Of course you fail to

Submitted by tron on Tue, 09/01/2009 - 08:14.

Of course you fail to provide the reason for the homestead exemption, mainly tax relief. The state gives towns and cities hundreds of millions of dollars every year through revenue sharing and school subsidies, yet the municipalities just keep spending. When the state mandates exemptions for homeowners, town officials call it "unfunded mandates" yet when the right wing wackos try to do it at the state level it is called "TABOR" The fact of the matter is that since the last TABOR vote and the School mandate vote, the state has INCREASED monies to municipalities by over ONE BILLION DOLLARS. Yet, as I've asked bobby reed many times, how much of that money has Lewiston's taxpayers received through reduced spending? Only what the Homestead exemption requires, which is why when the next round of cuts at the state level comes around, revenue sharing and school subsidies should be the first ones.

Robert61 You're introducing

Submitted by veritas on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 14:22.

Robert61

You're introducing more "Smoke and Mirrors" without addressing your lie on:

Some people who owe nothing will now get a refund on no taxes paid?

Who pays "No taxes" besides infants?
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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

Has anyone tried to

Submitted by Robert61 on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 14:08.

Has anyone tried to calculate their income taxes under this plan? Go ahead I dare you..have fun...While the state is capping the tax rate at 6.5%, you need to read the fine print where they have a phase out on how you calculate income and deductions - gone will be the typical exemption now you'll just get a flat amount off your tax bill based on gross income, and add ons for itemizing or dependents. Unfortunately, if you're a married couple, and your combined income is more that $55,000 you will have to return 1.5% of any credits per $100 over that income mark. So you're first $55K will be paid out at 6.5% but them everything else effectively has an 8% tax rate. And yet if you ow no taxes and did not work, you can now get a credit of $60 from the state, $120 for married couples. While its meant to help the elderly, its an incometax rebate when no taxes were owed, which amounts to nothing more than socialism.

As to MO4 and the comments about the Homestead reduction, clearly she was indicating she beleived the state would need to cut back the program - but she was wrong - allow me to correct - while the state currently allows up to $13K (depending on your value and where you live - it only funds $7,000 - the rest is an unfunded mandate by the state - the towns are required to give the $13K credit but only get reimbursed on $7K, thus they simply spread that rebate to everyone else and the mill rate goes up....yep, more socialistic policies in Augusta.

And I'm still waiting for J to answer David Hughes questions on point about what he really beleives.

The Pirate doesn't always

Submitted by Pirate on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 15:51.

The Pirate doesn't always agree with Publikwerks, but today, we are on the same page.

Can't we just use the gun

Submitted by veritas on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 13:19.

Can't we just use the gun barrels the way they are, so we get either a .357 or .44 wallop of uncut Lewiston Lethargy???

They're going to unionize

Submitted by Lil on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 14:24.

They're going to unionize ACORN and have them collect all the guns to give to the illegal immigrants.
______________________

"We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give."
Winston Churchill

Here's the link for the new

Submitted by veritas on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 12:50.

Here's the link for the new bill signed by the Governor

find what you allege, momof4

- And there's no 'Opinion' to it. It's either there or not.

And so far, you haven't posted anything to prove your point. You're full of it as a Christmas Goose.....

http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/bills/display_ps.asp
?ld=1495&PID=1456&snum=124
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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

Veritas: The homestead

Submitted by momof4 on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 12:32.

Veritas: The homestead exemption will not exceed $10,000 if this crappy bill passes. Period. I do know how to read. Funny how a difference of opinion turns you into a name-calling ass. Let us know what you find out, stupid.

Alternative reality? Opinion

Submitted by Lil on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 12:51.

Alternative reality? Opinion masquerading as fact?
______________________

"We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give."
Winston Churchill

Do you think she'd pass

Submitted by veritas on Mon, 08/31/2009 - 13:00.

Do you think she'd pass around some of that good shidt... :)

Sell us a doobie or two??
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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

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