City
Atheist speaker tells students he'll 'never stop poking'
Jose Leiva/Sun Journal
PZ Myers, a professor of biology at the University of Minnesota and an atheist, spoke to students at Bates College on Tuesday about "The Importance of Blasphemy."
LEWISTON — To biologist, teacher and Internet rabble-rouser PZ Myers, a little blasphemy is a good thing.
"Everything has to be questioned," Myers told a group of Bates College students Tuesday. "We want to make people question their beliefs, or at least make them defend their beliefs."
Myers is willing to annoy lots of people in the process.
Last year, the guy behind the popular Internet blog, "Pharyngula," asked readers to send him samples of consecrated bread and crackers from Catholic communion. Fans from around the world sent him the requested crackers, sometimes capturing their pranks on video.
He figured the act would bug some priests and devout Catholics but would likely be dismissed.
"I could not believe that people cared so much about a little scrap of bread," Myers said.
The anger from some Catholics was combustible. Thousands of e-mail messages overwhelmed his computer. Letters began arriving at the school where he teaches, the University of Minnesota, Morris, calling on the chancellor to fire him. There were death threats and bomb threats, saying he'd captured Christ.
"I really don't have Jesus," Myers said. "I have crackers."
Myers, an atheist and an evolutionist, visited Tuesday at the invitation of the Bates Secular Student Alliance. About 25 people attended his lecture.
Online, Myers has a big audience for a man whose specialty is neuroscience, particularly in the development of fish. His blog, which often focuses on politics and creationism, reaches an estimated 2.5 million viewers each month, he said.
His notoriety has snagged some powerful critics, including Catholic League President Bill Donohue.
Despite the criticism, Myers still has his collection of communion bread and crackers at his home in Minnesota. One cracker is gone, however. To it, he did something he'd read about from the Middle Ages.
"I stuck a nail through it, and dropped it in the trash," he said.
Such symbolism drew his most outrageous criticism. Some writers compared him to Hitler and his acts to the Holocaust.
"I mean, literally, they said I was just like Hitler," Myers said.
He believes the reaction doesn't reflect most Catholics' feelings. Rather, it reflects a small minority's breakdown at having their faith challenged.
"It cuts people's philosophical brake lines," said Myers, who is finishing a book on the fuss he started.
Will he stop making trouble? Doubtful.
"You never stop poking," he said.
dhartill@sunjournal.com
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Displaying comments, from newest to oldest
To be honest, I couldn't
To be honest, I couldn't care less what PZ Myers thinks of my beliefs. Liberals are suppose to be this tolerant group of people, as so long as you believe what they believe. I've noticed they are the most intolerant group of people on the planet - why can't he believe what he wants without mocking my faith?? It goes to show how insecure these people are. I've already devoted more time to this self-indulgent blowhard than he deserves.
verified We are the most tolerant
We are the most tolerant people around. The only thing we are intolerant about are people who demonstrate their intolerance. In other words, we do not care anyting about your faith, as long as you don't try to shove it down our throats. The marriage equality referendum is a perfect example. If you're against marriage equality that's fine. If your faith doesn't wish to accept marriage equality, that's fine. But don't shove your beliefs and back that up with denying others financial and legal protections, just because you don't agree with us. We absolutely respect your beliefs, all we ask is that you do the same!
It says quite a bit about
It says quite a bit about how insecure you are that you would get so freaked out about somebody criticizing "your" faith. One would have to have a seriously troubled character or weak constitution to have such a visceral reaction to a frakkin' cracker getting crucified.
Come on, Chris – As
Come on, Chris – As President of the Bates Secular Student Alliance you need to proceed with caution here, as your remarks reflect on the secular community as a whole. A product of that community, I was raised with a very strong prejudice against religion and religious people - particularly Christians – as ignorant, uneducated, superstitious, illogical, intolerant and unreasonable people who couldn’t distinguish between true science and a dogmatic adherence to an ancient and irrelevant text. Well, I do see ignorance, intolerance and unscientific superstition among Christians which, I am ashamed to admit, doesn’t surprise me because of my upbringing. I am also ashamed to admit that I am surprised when I see those qualities in the secular, humanistic, “liberal” academic community. I can’t help it - I am the son of two wonderful people who were high-ranking librarians at two of the most prestigious universities in the world and have been compassionate, thoughtful, philanthropic atheists throughout their lives. And then I come here, read about Mr. Myers, go to his web-site, and return here to find remarks completely devoid of logic, intelligence, tolerance, compassion and respect on both sides of the issue, with the majority of the ad-hominem attacks coming from the supposedly educated, open-minded secular side against those of us who believe – with good scientific evidence – that we have been wonderfully made by a Creator who loves us (and you) and wishes us (and you) to spend eternity with Him in paradise.
In fact, ScottHill may be wrong when he generalizes “liberals” as more intolerant than whatever he thinks the opposite of that is, but he is dead on when he characterizes Mr. Myers as unnecessarily mocking his faith. Your mischaracterization of ScottHill’s remarks as the “freakout” of a “seriously troubled character” is pure intellectual dishonesty at best and just pure intolerant and prejudicial hatred at worst. Your comments, Chris, only serve to discredit you, Bates, your secular alliance and community, your parents and your misguided hero, PZ Myers. You need to find somebody of value to lionize and emulate. “… as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.” Joshua 24:15
to just_a_man Do you know
to just_a_man
Do you know what an ad hominem attack is and why it is so immature and despicable? If you were among the 25 attendees and could directly criticize what Dr. Myers said, that is different. Your post as it is smacks of the kind of anti-intellectualism that helped the Nazis gain such complete control of Germany in the mid to late 1930's. If this somehow offends you, I would suggest a little reading, such as "Hitler's Willing Executioners". I worry that the US is heading down that path, with lots of help from people like you.
As for your comment about the LSJ coverage- the Myers talk is unusual stuff around these parts, and that used to be considered news. By the standards of journalism that I grew up with, that alone justifies the coverage. It also used to be that one reason people read newspapers was to find out about the rest of the world they live in, but it appears that's not of concern to you. You might try exploring outside your bubble sometime- you might learn something new and interesting.
The intellectual honesty which Myers is required to exercise in his everyday professional life also demands that he listen to opposing viewpoints with respect. It appears that you neither possess nor understand this level of intellectual honesty. Too bad, because it's what makes the world of science and technology so profoundly valuable to you and everyone else on this planet. You should try to understand why, but I doubt you will make the effort.
To johndoe: Wow! My comments
To johndoe:
Wow! My comments were critical, but pretty mild compared to Mr. Doe's diatribe. He characterizes my remarks as an ad hominem attack, first claiming that I am stupid, uneducated and immature, and then insinuating, outrageously, that the US is moving down Hitler's path with the help of people like me!?!?! He claims to know a whole lot more about me, who I am, how I spend my time, and what is important to me than is possible from what I wrote. Pretty cynical stuff. I guess I really am unable to understand intellectual honesty, because I don't see it anywhere in Mr. Doe's remarks. I do, however, recognize an ad hominem attack when I see it, and yes, I happen to have run into that term while exploring "outside of my bubble" - whatever that means.
I do understand Mr. Doe's fears about the grisly possibilities of a union between church and state, but my limited understanding of history leads me to think that societies that discard God, like Stalin's, are at least equally capable of atrocities. Hitler's Germany was not a religiously-based dictatorship but the collusion between many religious institutions and the fascist should concern us all - it does me.
Still, after exploring Mr. Myers' website, I don't see anything uplifting in his particular brand of crass and yes, anti-intellectual brand of self-aggrandizement. He has a God-given right to his opinion and the expression of it, but it's not newsworthy to my mind. I stand by my original comments: "The fool says in his heart, there is no God." Psalm 53:1
JohnDoe taxpayer- the "fact"
JohnDoe
taxpayer- the "fact" that you know about Dr. Myers acting like a three year old is actually your opinion, and based on a lack of factual knowledge. I know Myers from reading Pharyngula online and the only characteristic of a three year old that he ever demonstrates is insatiable curiosity. The FACT that you are able to describe part of his presentation as "garbage that is spewed from his mouth" indicates that your mind is rather closed on this issue. If you were to meet someone like him in person and have a mature conversation, you would find him to be... ...well, mature... ...as well as friendly, open minded, intelligent, and shockingly reasonable on most topics- as is generally the case for my PhD peers in the life sciences.
The place where he (and I) might seem unreasonable is in defending science and intellectual freedom from the attacks of organized religion. If this offends any of you writing in this forum, then you are seriously lacking in empathy (please look the word up in the dictionary to understand it before lashing out blindly in response). As a committed atheist for decades, I can assure you that there are few beliefs that will make you the target of more hatred than publicly declaring your atheism... ...and this is in the US, where we are "officially" tolerant. When we elect an avowed atheist as president of the US, I will grant that this is wrong, but until then, a profession of atheism is a political death sentence anywhere in the US.
I certainly wish that I had known about this talk beforehand (organizers take note- expand your publicity!). I would have been there. Kudos to Bates for having a group able to pull in someone of this stature.
"Folly is joy to him that is
"Folly is joy to him that is destitute of wisdom, but a man of understanding walks upright." Proverbs 15:21 Does PZ Myers "walk uprightly?" It seems not. I don't see how this Don Rickles of religion and philosopy is bettering those around him or making the world a better place - do you? God created him, you and I with amazing intelligence and freedom to choose how we use it. Apparently Mr. Myers has chosen to squander the time allotted to him and his considerable gifts in his noisy and negative quest for self-aggrandizement. It is interesting to note that only 25 people chose to waste their time and resources by attending this foolishness. What I don't understand is why the Sun Journal deemed this non-event newsworthy. Frankly, I'm disappointed in the poor choice this newspaper made in covering this folly.
God Schmod. Jesus Schmesus
God Schmod. Jesus Schmesus
Lets face the fact that
Lets face the fact that religion in the United States is going by the waist side.Churches need to update their message to keep with the times.Just let him believe what he does its his right.
25 people attended...that
25 people attended...that should tell you something right there.
The last time I visited my
The last time I visited my parents' church, 25 people attended... that should tell you something right there.
verified Yeah no one is devoted to
Yeah no one is devoted to anything
verified Sounds like a great and
Sounds like a great and intelligent man well grounded in reality. Wish I had known he was coming, I would have attended.
Jon Albrecht Dixfield
DR DOSH.YOU MUST BE A REAL
DR DOSH.YOU MUST BE A REAL DR IF A FEW THOUSAND DOLLARS ISN'T A LOT OF MONEY TO YOU !!!
I guess I'm just the kind of
I guess I'm just the kind of guy that leaves other people alone and doesn't feel the need to be the center of attention. The behavior he is exhibiting is that of a three year old. I know this for a fact because I'm the father of one. The way they become center of attention is by doing or saying things that they know everyone around them will disapprove of or just by acting out. He gets his kicks out of acting infantile and while I agree that freedom of speech should be defended I also think that it should be used constructively and responsibly. The reason I made the comment earlier about his parents not loving him is because I can't for the life of me understand why one would feel the need to insult other people just for kicks, can't imagine why he feels the inclination to worry about what other people believe in, and can't imagine for the life of me why anyone would sit there and listen to the garbage that is spewed from his mouth.
Shorter Taxpayer: Atheists
Shorter Taxpayer: Atheists should just sit down and shut up and not bother good christian believers. Well, too bad; You privileged relilgiosos have been jamming your beliefs down our throats for centuries now and we are just not going to take it any more. Get your perverted beliefs out of OUR schools and out of OUR government, and off OUR bodies. Your beliefs do not deserve the slightest bit of respect just because they are yours. You can whine all you want, but we are not going away, our numbers are growing.
If you took some time to
If you took some time to learn the whole story, you would learn that the "cracker incident" was prompted when a group of zealous Catholics tried to get a student expelled (I think it was Florida, but I may be wrong) for walking out of mass with a communion wafer. Professor Myers wasn't inciting for the simple sake of creating discord. He was trying to make a point in response to the church's actions.
The point was a rather simple one.
It's a frakkin cracker.
Insulting others for kicks
Insulting others for kicks is the core of most religions, as if you're not one of us, you're one f them and are are damned to hell. Why does anyone bother to care what someone else believes in? What makes it so wrong when I don't believe the same things that you do? Organized religion is great in theory, in practice is where it falls apart. People like this professor just take a bit more pride in pointing out those cracks and fissures.
He may get his book
He may get his book published and he may have the degree, but he is a small man who makes his living by intentional confrontation. Perhaps the other groups he attempted to offend are wiser and willing to let him exercise his freedom of speech without exercising theirs. Does burning or damaging items held to be holy and worthy of respect prove God doesn't exist? Does the United States not exist if they ignore someone who desecrates a flag? I might take offense and wish to prevent it but does God need to protect these things? No. His ways are not our ways. We remain mortal, regardless of our pseudo-intellectual exercises.
He/we should absolutely
He/we should absolutely disrespect the beliefs of people! People may deserve respect as individuals, but their absurd beliefs do not. And you do NOT have the right not to be offended. That is the whole point.
What insecure pathetic little attitude of yours causes you to claim he was unloved by his parents? Hey, maybe that was you, and you are projecting your insecurities onto that which you fear. You know deep down that your beliefs are ridiculous, but you have so much invested (perhaps your whole life), you can't even begin to entertain the possibility that you are not only wrong, you have trusted people who have lied to you their whole lives.
For the record, PZ is a brilliant, highly educated, and highly respected individual, with a great career and a beautiful family. And as soon as he gets his book published, he may very well become rich and famous, besides!
A couple of people have left
A couple of people have left comments asking how much Bates paid Professor Myers. I'm the president of the organization that hosted Mr. Myers, so let me just let you all know that Bates did not pay for him and Bates did not sponsor him. My student organization, the Bates Secular Student Alliance, paid for the event and we are very proud to have done so. The college lent its support only in the form of permitting us use of their space, for which we are as grateful as we always are for events like this.
Someone else made some remark about insulting Islam. If they had attended the talk, as the entire public was invited to do, they would have learned that Myers' courageous desecration of a mere cracker was accompanied by a desecration of the Qur'an and of Richard Dawkins's "The God Delusion." You guys should try learning a little more about the man before you let your pettiness get the better of you.
My wife, who graduated from
My wife, who graduated from Bates in 1996 and now does science education at a small Vermont museum, was both thrilled and jealous that you got Professor Myers over to speak at Bates. Great job (I was jealous too!)
I think you might be making
I think you might be making a huge assumption here. Namely, that the sort of people who scream and have fits about atheists would actually go and do any sort of research at all on any topic. Research is the antithesis of fundamental belief and faith. I think the comments here show that pretty plainly.
Good on you folks for having Professor Myers out there, it sounds like it was a great event! Keep up the good work!
Why did he do it? Because
Why did he do it? Because of you. You are all exemplifying his point.
Fools.
Finally, somebody gets it.
Finally, somebody gets it.
It would be interesting to
It would be interesting to find out how much Bates paid him to speak. This guy is a college professor too? He's laughing all the way to the bank;but the joke's on him because those dollar bills he's depositing say "in God we trust".
SICK! Why would the "Sun
SICK! Why would the "Sun Journal" even publish such a story? Even the left leaning Bates students didn't show up for this nut!
Forgive them Father, for
Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do. This man needs mega prayers for a conversion of the heart. He really has no clue as to what he is doing. Or if he does have a clue, then Satan is his best buddy.
He knew exactly what he was
He knew exactly what he was doing. He was sticking a nail through a cracker. Nothing more. If anyone needs "mega prayers," it's the thousands who sent him hate mail, death threats, and called for his resignation. Any god worth believing in would rather see his creations exercising their ability to think critically than expressing hatred toward those who do.
Stow the patronizing
Stow the patronizing attitude, fella.
verified agreed
agreed
Hey, while your at it, what
Hey, while your at it, what about poking at the Muslim religion. How far to you think he would get with that?
His desecration of the silly
His desecration of the silly little cracker was accompanied by a similar desecration of the Qur'an. If you had attended the talk as the entire public was invited to do, you would have learned that.
FYI, professor Myers also
FYI, professor Myers also desecrated a copy of the Qur'an and The God Delusion in his famous cracker incident. Hardly a peep was heard from Muslims, and atheists just chuckled at including Dawkins. Would you be surprised to learn that it was only Christians sending threats of death and violence?
How does that sit with your world view?
verified I don't think far at all.
I don't think far at all. that would be discriminating I beleive. pffffft!
This guy was most likely
This guy was most likely unloved by his parents and thus has to act like a complete moron. Just because he doesn't believe doesn't mean he should disrespect other people's beliefs. Nothing separates this fool from the one who rolled the pigs head into the mosque a few years back. What is his problem?
verified Gee tapayer, you're
Gee tapayer, you're disrespecting HIS beliefs. Does that mean you are acting like a moron, or are you not acting?
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