Was it necessary to list her home address so that some zealot can now stalk her? Shame on you SJ
City
Same-sex marriage support costs Catholic woman her ministry
Oct 31, 2009 12:00 am
Pamella Starbird Beliveau
- SubmittedLEWISTON — A local Catholic woman has lost her position as a lay minister at the Prince of Peace Parish churches this week after penning a newspaper column in support of legalizing same-sex marriages.
Pamella Starbird Beliveau, 47, of 40 Hillcrest Ave., said she met with Monsignor Marc Caron on Wednesday and was notified in writing Thursday that she had been dismissed as a lector and as a Eucharistic minister.
Her column, "A committed marriage is a worthy aspiration," appeared in the Oct. 18 edition of the Sun Journal.
"We were both very sad that it had come to this point, but I was treated with the utmost respect," Beliveau said. "I take no pleasure in being in conflict with my pastor."
Beliveau was not surprised by the dismissal, she said.
"The Catholic Church has every right to determine who can and cannot minister," she said. "I fully respect that."
Beliveau has been a member of the parish for 20 years, and a lector, reading for parish Masses at the Basilica of Saints Peter and Paul. She has also been a lay Eucharistic minister for much of that time.
The Sun Journal contacted her by phone Friday night after word of her dismissal had spread. It was mentioned in an Oct. 30 open letter to the Maine Council of Churches that defended Ann Underwood, a Catholic member of the council, for her support of same-sex marriage.
Beliveau said she wanted to keep people focused on the issue of same-sex marriage.
"I do not want this to become about me and my ministry with the church," she said. "I want to keep our eyes on the issue. This is about equality for the gay and lesbian friends, neighbors and family that live and work and love in our state."
Beliveau said she was told she could ask to return to her ministry through a tribunal process.
"I will be there on Sunday," she said. "I am a Catholic."
Neither the Roman Catholic Diocese of Portland nor Monsignor Caron could be reached for comment Friday night.
Comments
Isn't there somewhere in the
Submitted by Bravosixalpha on Sun, 11/01/2009 - 08:28.
Isn't there somewhere in the Bible where Jesus admonished his deciples to love one another as he has loved them? To love the Sunner but hate the sin? Just checking.
Longfellow - I do respect
Submitted by Mrs. McG on Sun, 11/01/2009 - 22:03.
Longfellow - I do respect everyone. I respect everyone's person - but I do not/cannot respect everyone's opinion, though I respect each person's right to voice it. I also cannot respect every and any choice a person makes. Sin is sin. I don't believe that I am a better person than someone with same-sex attraction. I cannot know perfectly the state of anyone's soul before God - including my own. I do know, however, that certain actions/activities are inherently and objectively sinful. To say that sodomy is a sin is no more judgemental or hateful than to say that child abuse is a sin. I am beginning to suspect that the outrage such a statement often receives gives hint that people *are* judging and hating persons like child abusers.
I hope I would never treat a person in a manner which was beneath their dignity as a loved child of God. I have a dear, old friend who is gay that I love tremendously. But love means not giving assent and approbation to what will ultimately bring misery, both earthly and eternal. Sin will never make a person truly happy. It would be hateful of me to say - do whatever makes you happy, I don't care.
This is so not germane to
Submitted by Mrs. McG on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 21:43.
This is so not germane to the topic at hand - but since people in favor of voting "NO on 1" keep whipping out the Catholic sexual abuse scandal, I am posting a link to an article with some excellent information regarding the scandal:
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/facts/fm0011.html
Particularly see points 1, 6 and 7.
Devoutmainecatholic, please
Submitted by Timeout on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 16:23.
Devoutmainecatholic, please be careful in implying that you know the workings of the church better than others. For instance, people are not denied communion because they are divorced. That changed a long time ago. Believe it or not, part of the Catholic faith is a continuing collection of wisdom and writings that evolve through the ages. Faulty or no, many church "rules" have changed, particularly since Pope Paul and Vatican II. The Pope is no longer declared to be infallible. That changed more than 40 years ago.
Perhaps the church will change it's position on same sex marriage in time as well. Maybe it won't. I believe no one truly knows God's will. We do the best we can and aspire to the model set before us by our faith. I am voting No on 1. I too used to serve Communion, lector, etc. The Church no longer fits for me. As I learned more and more about the workings of the Church, I found that it truly didn't fit my heart. There are many good things but I no longer believe that this is the Only Way. As for the woman in the article, she is right, this is not about her, it's about doing what you truly believe is right. God gave us our intellect and hearts to put to good use.
He said "divorced and
Submitted by Mrs. McG on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 16:34.
He said "divorced and remarried outside the Church" - and he's absolutely right about that. Easily verifiable online.
Gay marriage is a threat to
Submitted by Jay Bee on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 16:15.
Gay marriage is a threat to the Catholic Church - and as such, you can expect them to mobilize against it, no matter what perceived hypocrisy may arise as a result.
Why? Well, to borrow from Andrew Sullivan, blogger and Catholic:
"No surprise then that among the best liturgical organizers are gay men - from choirmasters to priests to altar assistants. There is something very gay about a High Mass - it's almost the religious equivalent of a Broadway musical. [The Church wishes to keep] all the queens under one roof - and surrounded by incense and lace."
It is one of the worst-kept secrets in Christiandom that a high proportion of individuals serving the Holy Roman Catholic church - males and females alike - are homosexual. You must cast your sexuality aside, but the trade-off is a secure existence, sheltered by the benevolent Mother Church.
What happens in a society where suddenly, these individuals are free to love and marry like anyone else? Does anyone honestly think this will not have repercussions on future generations of potential priests, nuns, and the like? Facing an unprecedented crisis, the Vatican is already reaching out to conservative Anglicans, as It will give married (heterosexual) priests from a different church entirely an "out" (pardon the pun) and an opportunity to rejoin the Holy See, something not contemplated in several centuries.
Unfortunately, the Church has caught itself in a vise, slowly growing tighter. It consolidates and loses its most devout followers and cuts itself off from the poor and needy. It spends money it really doesn't have in order to oppose legal measures, that will likely pass, and results in more losses of staff it can ill afford.
But it has so compromised itself in order to maintain a direct connection to its most conservative elements that it has little choice but to proceed on its current path, no matter how destructive or isolating.
As someone who grew up in this church, I am sad to see it become so out of sync with modern society. But as it has almost 2000 years of tradition and hierarchy to maintain, there's little to be done for it.
Thanks for this post, Jay
Submitted by gdls1 on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 16:27.
Thanks for this post, Jay Bee. Loved the High Mass metaphor!
Note to Gaby; Re: "Times
Submitted by Bill of Augusta on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 15:18.
Note to Gaby;
Re: "Times change and we have to change with those times."
Correction; Just because you WANT to change, doesn't necessarily mean WE (heterosexuals) have to change.
Re: "All people must be treated equally for this society to be at some peace."
I agree. However, why is it that if an assault is performed against a homosexual (or other minorities), it's a "hate crime", yet if an assault is performed against a heterosexual, it's not a hate crime, and the punishment isn't as severe for the attacker. Where's the equality in that? That is CLEARLY preferential treatment. Why is a homosexual's life more valuable than mine, as a heterosexual male? The gay community has enough special rights as it is. I'll be voting "YES."
It is amazing, the church
Submitted by Bravosixalpha on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 14:47.
It is amazing, the church hides it pedephiles, yet is able to criticize this woman. Reminds me of how well the catholics helped the jews in germany, and the Spanish Inquisition. What is next? Uniformed pedephile priests kicking in doors late at night or in the wee hours of the morning? The church lost me a long time ago, was this poor woman any more of a bad influence than hiding those pedephile priests? I think not.
John 28, I am quoting you, a
Submitted by SRV on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 14:10.
John 28, I am quoting you, a "pedofile" would be a file about walking. You also claim they "threw a member out of the church" when all they did is dismiss an employee who chose to take a very public stand against her employer. Perhaps your argument would be more convincing if you stuck to the issue at hand rather than devolve into a diatribe against the Catholic church. If, as the courts have recently ruled, that an employee can be fired for speaking negatively about thier employer online on a Facebook or MySpace page, they can certainly be fired for stating public opposition to their employer's stance in a public newspaper. And, if the bible never mentioned the word "homsexsual" (sic) it is probably because the word does not exist.
SRV, your just another right
Submitted by John 28 on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 14:58.
SRV, your just another right wing bigot like the bishop!
Are her age and address
Submitted by ihaterainydays on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 12:34.
Are her age and address necessary to tell this story?
Lying is wrong. I've lied in
Submitted by Mrs. McG on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 16:31.
Lying is wrong. I've lied in my life. I guess I can't say it's wrong, then. That's utterly illogical, as is saying: "I've lied in my life - so I can't say that your robbing and beating an old lady is wrong or bad because that would make me a hypocrite." This is silliness. I am treating others as I would be treated. I don't want anyone to confirm me in my wrongdoing, so I won't do that for anyone else.
Thank you, Msgr. Caron, for
Submitted by Mrs. McG on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 11:44.
Thank you, Msgr. Caron, for furthering the Catholic Church's mission to save souls by removing what was a very public scandal.
I applaud the Diocese of Portland for publicly promoting the truth, even when that truth brings out hatred and bigotry against the Church and makes Her unpopular even with Her own members.
Thank you for showing the world that the Church's mission is the salvation of souls - it is no a missiont to win popularity contests with the general public through public policy.
I pray Ms. Beliveau will come to understand and be reconciled with the Church's teachings, and that faithful Catholics will treat her with the utmost charity that will help her embrace those teachings.
"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember the words I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also." John 15: 18-20
WOW, I'm quoting you "Thank
Submitted by John 28 on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 12:08.
WOW, I'm quoting you "Thank you Msgr Caron for furthering the catholic church mission to save souls by removing what was a very public scandal"
Now, you certainly are talking about the church 'hiding their pedofile priests, right?'
Not a lot of forgiveness or
Submitted by Mrs. McG on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 16:26.
Not a lot of forgiveness or mercy in your heart? The Catholic Church has officially and publicly apologized again and again, made financial restitution to victims of abuse and continues to enact formal policies to prevent future harm - excommunicating and laicizing those who violate children. A far more serious censure than being disallowed the privilege of distributing Holy Communion and reading God's word from the pulpit. Say it: You want the Catholic Church to roll over and play dead - to be dead. Well, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed.
"You want the Catholic
Submitted by news4u on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 19:17.
"You want the Catholic Church to roll over and play dead - to be dead. Well, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed."
Why do you find it so difficult to understand why people are upset with the Catholic Church and its members? You can not hand pick which parts of the Bible that you choose to live by while showing total disregard for the rest of the Bible.
There are references in the Bible about procreation. Catholics believe that marriage is between a man and a women and that sex between a married Catholic couple is meant for procreation purposes.To Catholics, purposely stopping the joining of an egg and sperm is thought to be a sin, yet many of today's practicing Catholics (single and/or married) use birth control. I am not referring to Natural Family Planning, but to other hormone & barrier methods.
There are references in the Bible about divorce. Marriage is one of the seven sacraments in the Catholic Church. Their official position is that marriage is a sacrament that cannot be dissolved. A valid marriage has to endure until one spouse dies. They do not believe in divorce. Instead, they allow annullments. If Catholics divorce and remarry, they are still welcome to worship but they cannot receive the Holy Eucharist. These individuals are denied the most important of the seven sacraments. Does the church readily accept the monetary offerings that these worshippers choose to give?
You wrote: "The Catholic Church has officially and publicly apologized again and again, made financial restitution to victims of abuse and continues to enact formal policies to prevent future harm - excommunicating and laicizing those who violate children. A far more serious censure than being disallowed the privilege of distributing Holy Communion and reading God's word from the pulpit." But, they only did this once the crimes were made public. Had it not been made public would they have done this?
There are references in the Bible regarding passing judgement on your neighbor.The Bible states “Judge not, that you be not judged.Why do you or anyone else in the church have the right to judge another individual's actions, thoughts, or deeds? It also states "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. Where is the love and compassion in your heart?
I don't wish for the Catholic Church to be dead- only to stop being so hypocritical.
RE: Judge not and ye shall
Submitted by Mrs. McG on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 21:04.
RE: Judge not and ye shall not be judged.
It's interesting that people only pull this one out when people are naming something a "sin" - when they want that behavior to not be a sin. Nobody says: "Judge not..." when it comes to rape or homicide. That's because we are judging actions and not individuals. I don't know that even the rapist will be cast into hell for all eternity - I don't know if he has repented before God or did not have the capacity for understanding the nature of his crime. But what the rapist did is unspeakably horrific and wrong.
I don't know the heart of a particular person with same-sex attraction - is he given over to addiction but repentent - or if there are any other number of conditions present which mitigate or vitiate his personal guilt. But I know that his inclinations are disordered and go against nature as well as the laws of God. His behaviors are physically and psychologically damaging to himself and to his partner. I can't judge the state of his soul before God, nor his heart, but neither will I encourage anyone to institutionalize publicly an objectively sinful sexual relationship.
True love does not confirm a person in his sin. Whether or not one is morally culpable for his sins, one is damaged by them in a variety of ways, even if one does not perceive that damage.
Your primary confusion is
Submitted by Mrs. McG on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 20:48.
Your primary confusion is the difference between the Church and the members of the Church. Hypocrisy is status quo for all of humanity. Paul speaks of doing the things he hates and not the things he loves. Every single member of humanity, as sin affects everyone - from the pope, to the bishops, to the laity. That shouldn't surprise anyone. Catholics know that the minute you become Catholic, you don't cease sinning. That's why we have the Sacrament of Confession.
Many Catholic couples contracept. And, yet, many couples are unaware that artificial contraception is a grave sin (even "barrier methods" are sinful NFP is the only licit way to avoid pregnany for grave reasons).
"...they only did this once the crimes were made public. Had it not been made public would they have done this?"
We won't ever know, will we? Some diocese were already handling situations appropriately. There were several prominent dioceses that did not. But that does not mean the Church institutionally condoned or accepted the activities of some of its priests and bishops.
Again - you don't understand the nature of anullments. Certain conditions are necessary at the time of marriage in order for marriage to be valid. If they are not, there was never a marriage. But I don't have time to go into it here Google "anullments Catholic Encyclopedia" for the proper understanding.
The Church is not hated so much for what she teaches; She's hated for what people mistakenly think She teaches.
"Again - you don't
Submitted by news4u on Sun, 11/01/2009 - 14:35.
"Again - you don't understand the nature of anullments. Certain conditions are necessary at the time of marriage in order for marriage to be valid. If they are not, there was never a marriage." I did the research prior to making my previous post. The reasons given for an anulment in the Catholic Church are similar to the reasons a divorce would be granted in the State of Maine. However, the Catholic Church does not believe in divorce. Instead, annulments are granted. You can argue that it was never a true marriage according to the Catholic Church. No matter what you choose to call it, it is the dissolution between a husband and wife . The fact remains that the bond as husband and wife has been broken & no longer exists.
"Many Catholic couples contracept. And, yet, many couples are unaware that artificial contraception is a grave sin (even "barrier methods" are sinful NFP is the only licit way to avoid pregnany for grave reasons)." Are they not aware or are they choosing to commit a "grave sin" (your words not mine.)? I find this difficult to believe that they are not aware of the Church's view on this subject.
"The Church is not hated so much for what she teaches; She's hated for what people mistakenly think She teaches"
You continue to use the term hated when referring to what you feel others think of the Church. Please remember that these are your words, not mine. Hatred is a strong emotion. While you and I will never see "eye to eye" regarding issues of the Church I believe we are both entitled to our opinions and beliefs.
As Aristotle said “It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.”
RE: Anullments - if you did
Submitted by Mrs. McG on Sun, 11/01/2009 - 22:15.
RE: Anullments - if you did the research, you clearly did not understood what you read. An annulment finds that no marriage ever existed because there was a DEFECT in the matter or form. You cannot obtain an annulment as a result of irreconciliable differences or even spousal abuse. The most common reasons anullments are granted are as follows: insufficient or inadequate ability to give free consent, psychological incapacity, and absence of a proper intention to have children, be faithful, or remain together until death. The unfortunate and confusing reality is, however, that people don't usually go seeking to have their marriages declared invalid unless there is a relational difficulty between the spouses, giving the appearance that anullments are just "Catholic divorces."
Many, many Catholics are not aware of the Church's teaching on artificial contraception, especially in our present generation. It's funny - it's one of those things everyone outside of the Church seems to know, but gets blank stares when you mention it to fellow Catholics. In any case, the fact that Catholics dissent from Catholic teaching does not make the Church hypocritical... it makes individuals within the Church rebellious. The Church has remained consistent in Her teaching.
RE: Hate - dozens and dozens of comments I've seen in the gay marriage debate have a whif of hatred about them directed at the Church. I didn't mean you personally hated the Church - just making the point that people usually take issue with the Church based on lack of information and misunderstanding.
Catholic church has really
Submitted by mainebob on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 09:47.
Catholic church has really gone down the tubes.
The Church burns Joan of Arc
Submitted by veritas on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 09:17.
The Church burns Joan of Arc to death for being a Heretic - then they canonize her, declaring her Saint Joan of Arc. One day's sinner is another day's Saint.
God Bless Pamella Starbird Beliveau!!
------------------------------------------
When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.
Good point, veritas! I
Submitted by gdls1 on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 09:41.
Good point, veritas!
I admire and respect Ms. Beliveau; it took great courage to speak out (and so eloquently) for what she feels is right.
Religion of anykind has " NO
Submitted by butters dad on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 09:14.
Religion of anykind has " NO RIGHT PLACING THEIR NOSE WHERE IT DON'T BELONG". Religion and politics "DO NOT MIX". People that feel they are above god and think they know the rules, are in for a sad awakening on judgement day. God himself is the only one that can make the world decision if a person goes to heaven or hell.
What do you need protection
Submitted by T on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 09:15.
What do you need protection from?
Please explain.
I would like my children to
Submitted by K0NPHL1C7 on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 11:23.
I would like my children to not have to be exposed to the perversions of others.
...and you'll be on the
Submitted by T on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 09:13.
...and you'll be on the welcoming committee.
While it is commendable that
Submitted by SRV on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 08:26.
While it is commendable that she believed so strongly in the issue that she must have knowingly put her job at risk by publicly announcing her opposition to her employer's strongly held and well known position (especially since she made a point of listing her religious credentials), I would wager that the exact same termination would have taken place had an employee of the ACLU or GLAAD had openly advocated against gay marriage.
Yes, and if that ever did
Submitted by K0NPHL1C7 on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 08:42.
Yes, and if that ever did happen, do you think the S-J would report it? Doubtfull.
I wouldn't walk back into
Submitted by Pandora on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 08:24.
I wouldn't walk back into the Catholic church. I can't believe it when I hear that the Catholic church will do something like this to a person and they just accept it and continue to sit in the pew. Catholics are going to become fearful of voicing their own opinions and the church will never change. I think what the church did to her is deplorable. Sad to say with submissive actions such as her's the Catholic church will never catch up with times.
Chuch not change? I don't
Submitted by veritas on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 09:13.
Chuch not change? I don't believe they sell indulgences any longer, but they do tend to move rather slowly........
------------------------------------------
When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.
The TRUE teaching of the
Submitted by John 28 on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 08:17.
The TRUE teaching of the bible is LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS I HAVE LOVED YOU, but I guess you can't read the truth in the Bible.
Jesus never mentions the
Submitted by John 28 on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 10:52.
Jesus never mentions the word HOMOSEXSUAL once!!! You have been so badly brainwashed by the church!!
Did they teach you to talk
Submitted by T on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 09:12.
Did they teach you to talk like that in church?
The Church has made no false
Submitted by Gil on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 06:51.
The Church has made no false claims about where they stand and I think it shows strength and resolve to fire someone who so clearly doesn't follow their beliefs and demonstrated it in such a public fashion. The hypocrites will come on here and bash the church without once remembering the stories of those fired for public indiscretions from lay corporations. If you don't believe and follow the church's doctrine, then you shouldn't be in a position to minister o others in the church. I would go further and repeat what I have already said, that if you believe in and support gay marriage then you are not truly Catholic and should probably find another religion that does. Good luck on that. And again, for the record, not Catholic.
"Reasoning with a liberal is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end. " Pirate
You are just another
Submitted by John 28 on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 08:15.
You are just another hypocrit bigot that hates God's Children. The more reason I am voting NO on 1
There is no way you can
Submitted by tron on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 07:32.
There is no way you can idientify MS. Beliveau actions a public indiscretion. Enough of your attempts to redefine the English language.
This is how the Catholic
Submitted by Turier on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 06:29.
This is how the Catholic church gives thanks to a follower who has for the past 20 years given of herself by being a leading participant in weekly masses. It is so sad that the church also insists on controlling her thoughts, her opinions and her right to free speech. I suppose it is required to be a puppet in order to be a "good catholic". I feel for Ms Beliveau but admire her for standing by her convictions. I am another catholic who will vote NO on question #1. Or should I say former catholic.
It's with extreme sadness
Submitted by John 28 on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 05:17.
It's with extreme sadness that Caron and Malone have gone the way of devil and trowing their good long time church members out of the church. The stories I've heard are frightening at what the catholic church has become. I just wish that Jesus was here in person today and deal with those two, and in time He will. Shame a million times to the catholic church for so much hate and bigotry. Shame, shame, shame and shame again.
Even after all of this she
Submitted by queenhoneeybee on Sat, 10/31/2009 - 00:19.
Even after all of this she still wants to 'keep the eyes on the issue' for equality. W O W! That is truly rare and inspirational! =]
Isn't it sad that the
Submitted by tron on Fri, 10/30/2009 - 23:38.
Isn't it sad that the Catholic Church is so cowardly that it refuses to justify its' actions. Well they are within their rights, but is this the caring loving church I grew up with?
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