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Fix the immigration system

Published on Wednesday, Nov 18, 2009 at 2:02 am | Last updated on Wednesday, Nov 18, 2009 at 2:02 am 52 Comments

Although many people celebrated the House's recent approval of a sweeping reform of the nation's health care system, immigrants across the country must have reacted differently to the health care bill that was passed. Under the comprehensive health care bill, undocumented immigrants living in the U.S. may be mandated to have health insurance, but will be ineligible to receive federal subsidies and would have to pay in full for coverage. If they do not purchase insurance, they will be fined.

The controversy over how undocumented immigrants would fit into the new health care system has sparked a debate that points to a larger need to fix the immigration system in America. Better paths to citizenship must be created so that immigrants can have access to the same health care opportunities as all Americans.

These debates and decisions about undocumented immigrants and the health care system dehumanize the 10-12 million undocumented immigrants living in this country by classifying them as unqualified for receiving the basic human right of medical care.

As the health care reform bill moves along to the Senate, I hope U.S. Sens. Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins can recognize and address how the debates on health care reform reveal a need for America to reform the immigration system in an effort to provide equal treatment for all people living in the United States.

Liz Leberman, Lewiston

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Displaying comments, from newest to oldest

Pirate's picture
verified

Welcome to the O.K. Corral.

Welcome to the O.K. Corral. Hope you're not carrying a knife, cuz it's a gunfight. AARRGHH!!

Mike04938's picture

. . Any one a descendant of

. . Any one a descendant of a non-immigrant in here ? Didn't think so . Close the door behind you when you leave :)

Pirate's picture
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My descendants came here

My descendants came here LEGALLY. Yours?

veritas's picture
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It used to be that one

It used to be that one couldn't come here illegally.

So 'legally' was really besides the point.
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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

jchick's picture
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So did mine. What they did

So did mine.

What they did AFTER that might be questionable, but they did come here legally.

John A. Chick

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." -- Thomas Jefferson in a letter to Colonel Charles Yancey (January 6, 1816)

Pirate's picture
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LOL

LOL

Old Bill's picture

The "undocumented immigrant"

The "undocumented immigrant" is a fiction. This term was invented by the libs to make tehm sound harmless. In point of fact (and regardless of what tron, jaclbrect1 or anyone else says) the are illegal aliens. The best way to control them is to enforce the laws on the business level; fine and/or jail the presidents, CEOs, and personnel managers of any/all corporations that employ these illegals. Once that is done, illegal aliens will stop coming here in droves.
"The democracy will cease to exist when the government takes from those who would work and gives to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson.

jebbie47's picture

Well this has been

Well this has been interesting guys enjoyed it today :)

jebbie47's picture

Hmm a little different

Hmm a little different story??

In addition to sneaking into the country (referred to as "entry without inspection — EWI") in violation of the immigration law, others enter with legal documentation and then violate the terms on which they have been admitted. The immigration authorities currently estimate that about two-thirds of all illegal immigrants are EWIs and the remainder is overstayers. Both types of illegal immigrants are deportable under Immigration and Nationality Act Section 237 (a)(1)(B) which says: "Any alien who is present in the United States in violation of this Act or any other law of the United States is deportable.

veritas's picture
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sirmel writes: "The

sirmel writes:

"The immigration authorities currently estimate that about two-thirds of all illegal immigrants are EWIs and the remainder is overstayers"

"Overstayers?" Remarkable that a third came in legally in the first place.

Like all the old Navy buddies, relatives etc that wanted to come visit me after I moved to Maine. Wife got rid of the spare bed, convertible sofa, etc - and started referring them to motels, B&B's, etc. The interest level then waned.... ;)
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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

jebbie47's picture

Yep I guess that the

Yep I guess that the overstayers not my terminology but gov't and I do believe that they mean work visas.

veritas's picture
verified

Now if we'de simply

Now if we'de simply decriminalize our own dope, we'de jam up the Mexican drug cartel also.

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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

Pirate's picture
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The parrot says to

The parrot says to decriminalize our own dope, we'd have to impeach him.

jalbrecht1's picture
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undocumented immigrants

undocumented immigrants provide much more in benefits than they cost and they are bankrupting no one. At least that's the conclusion of the study the Bush (that's right big business wants undocumented workers in fact they go to Latin America to recruit them.)administration did after the Heritage Foundation put together a phony report that listed only the costs of undocumented immigrants.
Jon Albrecht Dixfield

deimos's picture
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the term is illegal aliens

the term is illegal aliens and in North Carolina they are responsible for a third of all motor vehicle violations mostly dwi. the state police down there report that when they stop them they claim they don't speak english so the troopers have a choice keep them there for a few hours while an interpreter is rounded up or let them go. so they go free and keep drinking and laughing at us. they are bankrupting the hospitals in border states and putting a huge strain on the prison system in california. a small group of illegals are going to hospitals ilas vegas and getting dialysis free to them but at a cost of about $15,000 each. which means you and me are paying. if they are here illegally then the have already demonstrated a propensity to break the law. kick them out.

jalbrecht1's picture
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First, violations of the

First, violations of the immigration laws are not crimes; they are not included in the criminal code. So they are undocumented not illegals. Undocuments do not go to a criminal court nor do they see a judge. They go to an administrative hearing and see and administrative judge. The only penalty is deporation (if no other crime is involved).
Second, Opposition to undocumented immigrants comes from two sources. The Michael savage and Lou Dobbs "border, language, and culture" crowd or nazis for short and the "they are taking our jobs". Conservatives inhabit the first group; the second can have anyone. Its tough but necessary to separate the two motivations.
Third, The author is correct. We must fix the immigration system. The recession has helped forcing millions to leave the US because they can find no jobs here. Health Care and Education should be recognized as basic human rights and all residents (which is how the Constitution refers to census taking probably because they didn't want to refer to slaves) of the US should have access to each. New immigration legislation should be going through Congress shortly. Republicans oppose it some because they are nazis, but we need a system that will be easy enough that no one needs to sneek into the country and so that we can document everyone here.
Jon Albrecht Dixfield

deimos's picture
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http://www.justice.gov/usao/e

http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm01911...
it is a criminal offense to enter the country illegally

veritas's picture
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Sorry. Immigration

Sorry.

Immigration violations are covered under both Administrative and Criminal Code. Most undocumented aliens are simply deported under administrative action.

Do be aware, however, of 8 USC 1325, which provides for both civil (administrative) and criminal penalties.

§ 1325. Improper entry by alien

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts

Any alien who
(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties

Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.

Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

(c) Marriage fraud

Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.

(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud

Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18, or both

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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

Pirate's picture
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I'm putting my dubloons on

I'm putting my dubloons on Veritas on that one. Albrecht's blowing undocumented smoke.

nikita80's picture

Ditto

Ditto

nmcssc's picture
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I guess people have

I guess people have forgotten the meaning of illegal these days. There is only one place in this country that anything is really being done about and that is in Arizona where one lone sheriff is doing his job. You may not like it but it is the law and as far as I am concerned this country needs a lot more like the one in Marricopa County.

veritas's picture
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Hate to break it to you, but

Hate to break it to you, but Sheriff Joe down in Maricopa County has apparently overstepped the bounds and authority of his job, and the Federal Government has had to remind him what the meaning of 'legal authority' is.

Seems Sheriff Joe has accepted a lot of Federal Money to also investigate and assist prosecute the businesses that hire illegals - but so far - how many arrests for that? Zip, Nada, Zilch. He's just run his deputies around picking up illegals for non-criminal offenses in addition to criminal ones. And that's the job of the Feds.

Meanwhile he's piled up a multitude of lawsuits which are burdening the taxpayers of his County - and - unfortunately, many aren't of the frivolous variety that the Courts will just throw out. Arpaio was the target of 2,150 lawsuits in U.S. District Court and hundreds more in Maricopa County courts, with more than $50 million in claims being filed, 50 times as many prison-conditions lawsuits as the New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Houston jail systems combined.

So while the Feds have had to recently jerk a knot through Sheriff Joe's grommet, the Maricopa County's insurance carrier has had to set a $5 Million deductable on the Sheriff's Office Legal Liability policy.

Might be a 'Folk Hero' to you, but his jail's recidivism rate is no better than that of the average jail.
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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

jebbie47's picture

Sheriff has the state law to

Sheriff has the state law to back him so it's between the state and federal gov't

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/frontpage/7855.php

veritas's picture
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Read the article They're

Read the article

They're 'considering' passing a state law regarding immigration; it's gone through the House, but not their Senate - it's not a done deal yet. As immigration is a federal, and not a state matter, it probably won't pass the constitutional smell test.

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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

scott's picture

Did you happen to see this

Did you happen to see this first hand too Veritas?

veritas's picture
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Read the Article. And share

Read the Article.

And share the extent of your education in Constitutional Law regarding 'Federalism' and 'Administrative Law' with us.

That could factor in.

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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

Pirate's picture
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What part of ILLEGAL (not

What part of ILLEGAL (not undocumented) does Ms. Leberman not understand? They are here illegally; they are outlaws. They are entitled to squat. Send them all back to where they came from and let them enter legally like the millions have done and continue to do so. Many of us are sick and tired of pampering and catering to these people. They are OUTLAWS, plain and simple. I don't care how nice they are, or how hard they work. They violated our laws by coming here illegally and they should not be allowed to stay or be entitled to any benefits afforded to American citizens. That's one of the reasons our country is in such a mess; liberals who don't have the mental capacity to think tightening our borders would be a good idea. AARRGHH!! It's enough to make a pirate want to go on a seafaring rampage.

Centarie2000's picture
verified

Undocumented wokers (illegal

Undocumented wokers (illegal immigrants) should not be charged a fine for not having insurance since they are not citizens and should not be forced to pay like citizens. But, they should't have the same access to benefits that citizens have without having a way to track undocumented worker payments for these benefits. What are the specific hurdles that prevent undocumented workers from becoming citizens or documented workers? Why aren't those hurdles specifically identified and addressed? This would allow them to have a better life, without fear of deportation, and to help pay their way, since that is (the reason we're told) is why they are here. And why aren't current immigration laws upheld? Is this all too much work for the paper pushers in Washington to deal with?

Gil's picture

For starters it might be

For starters it might be useful if they were referred to by what they actually are. They are not "Undocumented Workers", they are Illegal Aliens. The hurdles they face are simply coming here legally. Deport them and allow them to try again, this time legally. In the meantime, cut them off the public teat by demanding ID where services are provided. Arrest them when found, and stop pretending they are anything other than criminals.
"Reasoning with a liberal is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end. " Pirate

jebbie47's picture

Agree!

Agree!

tron's picture
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Does anyone ask YOU for ID

Does anyone ask YOU for ID when you suck off the public teat? Didn't think so.

Pirate's picture
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The parrot wants to know how

The parrot wants to know how Tron would know that unless he's been to the teat himself.

Gil's picture

But that's the point Dan,

But that's the point Dan, they should. You would know more about the workings of being paid from the fruits of others labor, either by the State or the Federal government, so tell us, do they ID you when you cash your check? Any service paid for by our tax dollars should have the stipulation that it is not available for anyone here illegally. Any service. Period. With the possible exception of lifesaving medical emergencies, followed up by deportation. That means NO health care, NO food stamps, NO welfare, NO housing subsidies. There is no gray area in the definition of illegal. You either are or you are not. How hard is that to understand.
"Reasoning with a liberal is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end. " Pirate

tron's picture
verified

I don't receive a check from

I don't receive a check from the state or the feds, but from what I hear, you get several monthly, so why don't you answer the first question?

veritas's picture
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Hey, take it easy!! Gil's

Hey, take it easy!! Gil's a contractor - Reckon he's got a family to take care of.

He's such a hard worker that you very rarely ever see him around here any more.

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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

tron's picture
verified

Don't know where you got the

Don't know where you got the idea he's a contrator. He isn't.

Gil's picture

Dan, you wouldn't know the

Dan, you wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in your rather large, unshowered behind. But in this case you got it kind of right. I'm not a contrator (you're spelling), I'm a subcontractor.
"Reasoning with a liberal is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end. " Pirate

veritas's picture
verified

So perhaps you're in

So perhaps you're in 'Construction?"

While you're sitting behind the computer arguing with folks. That must be a real money maker.

Shows what a 'Go-getter' you are.

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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

scott's picture

Hey Liz, Let's talk reality.

Hey Liz, Let's talk reality. These people are ILLEGAL immigrants (not undocumented workers) and should be treated as criminals. They come here and get free health care, free schooling, free this and that and we pay for it. The are here ILLEGALLY and have kids on this soil and their kids are automatically citizens of this country. We shouldn't allow that to happen either. If I rob a bank and give the money to my friend, that money doesn't belong to him because I gave it to him. It still belongs to the bank. We need to wake up and take back this country. As Howie says, "I don't want special rights, just treat me as you would an illegal immigrant." They have more rights then I do.

veritas's picture
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scott writes: "As Howie

scott writes: "As Howie says, "I don't want special rights, just treat me as you would an illegal immigrant."

Do you really think Howie would want to live in a three room apartment with seventeen other people, or out of his car? If you buy that argument I got a bridge to sell you........
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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

Gil's picture

The point is, regardless of

The point is, regardless of where or under what conditions they live, they are living here ILLEGALLY! What part of that word does someone who was supposedly in Law Enforcement not understand?
"Reasoning with a liberal is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end. " Pirate

veritas's picture
verified

Who is living here

Who is living here illegally, Gil?

Got a name, address, and actual knowledge about their status?

Or is it just "They?"

But the discussion was actually about the statement Howie Carr made - and how full of crap he is. Just like you.

Nice, bright, sun-shiny day in November. How's your contracting business working out for you that you can be wasting time on the computer??

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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

candiceanne's picture

I understand that Maine does

I understand that Maine does not have an issue with illegal immigrants and therefore it is difficult to realize what the realities are in the majority of states as they do have a tremenous problem. In most states, Colorado, Michigan, California, New York, Georgia, Florida, Arizona, Wisconsin, and Nevada to name a few, illegals are bankrupting the states and descimating the economies. Illegals receive 100% free health care and are denied nothing paid for by American Citizens. Illegals receive their education at the expense of American Citizens. These people are NOT looking to become citizens of this country because if they did they would lose all there freebies and their jobs.

Contrary to liberal aka democrat propaganda, illegals are not doing jobs in America that Ameicans wont do, ask an American construction worker who has been laid off for over a year while the illegals keep working. Talk to a "legal" business owner who is insured, pays worker's comp, unemployment, FICA, and all the other taxes on his/her employees and is subject to OSHA inspection about this. If there is a fence around a construction site you can be sure illegals are on that job. Inspectors and law enforcement can not enter without a warrant or notice and when they show an alarm is given and the illegals drop their tools and disapear. They can not compete with "illegal" companies who underbid and make much larger profits than the legals ever could. The illegals pay the workers the same wage but have elliminated all the other payroll expenses. A legal company expects payroll cost to be three times wages; an illegal company wages only. Once an illegal worker becomes legal he is out because he is expected to file tax returns and so on. Illegals have taken over construction, food service, manufacturing and much more in a majority of states forcing out your fellow Americans. They are not collecting the garbage, digging ditches and doing migrant work. If you are feeling sorry for the illegals in this country, your sympathy is sorely misplaced. Illegals are taking the jobs in the country that were not exported, you pay them, and your government takes care of them. Immigration reform is enforcing immigration law and returning ALL undocumented/illegals back to where they came from.

veritas's picture
verified

Candice - Illegals DO file

Candice - Illegals DO file tax returns and pay social security in many cases. They just can't do it in their own names, but rather use 'ghost accounts'. So what happens to the money that is deducted from their checks? Our government gets it, and the 'illegal' never sees refunds or the SS benefits from what they have paid. Occasionally that person does become 'legal' - then has to get a valid social security number, and move on to another job. They start all over again paying into SS.

And yes - they do take many jobs Americans won't. I've seen it.

This I know from my twenty years law enforcement experience. And where did you get your information?? Is any of it first hand?
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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

candiceanne's picture

What planet are you living

What planet are you living on? There are no taxes withheld. Illegals are hired be cause they cost the employer less than 1/3 what a legal employee costs. They don't cost the employer anything beyond the straight wage. The employer is not withholding or matching as required and sending that money in.. The employer has no unemployment insurance or workermen's comp on these people. The absense of customary payroll expenses is how the employer stays in business, they make money by saving 2/3 on payroll atleast so they pocket the extra and can underbid legitimate operations. THE ILLEGALS ARE NOT PAYING TAXES AND DEFINITELY NOT FILING TAX RETURNS.

jebbie47's picture

Gee veritas you sound allot

Gee veritas you sound allot like Bush!!

veritas's picture
verified

Sirmal - if you don't want

Sirmal - if you don't want to sound like an idiot, argue points and facts, and where you got them from.

If you are capable.
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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

jebbie47's picture

Well you do sound like Bush

Well you do sound like Bush he made the same excuses as you just did! Right along with some corps and also the chamber of Commerce

Gil's picture

That's right Sirmel, don't

That's right Sirmel, don't be like Morus and use your alleged first hand experience as proof that is beyond reproach. Why if he says he saw it, then you just have to believe him. " I've seen it. This I know from my twenty years law enforcement experience." That should be enough for anyone. Who needs real references and empirical data, or stats, when we have the eyewitness account of Morus? What a maroon.
"Reasoning with a liberal is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end. " Pirate

veritas's picture
verified

Shouldn't you be out

Shouldn't you be out working, Gil?

And since when has empirical data meant anything to you? If I recall, you were trying to pass off "I saw it on a video" as evidence, when I presented actual quotes from the Admiral in charge of a Pentagon study - along with the url - as my basis in fact.

Tell us what you have experience in, Gil - other than running your mouth and sitting behind a computer.

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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

Gil's picture

Why are you so worried about

Why are you so worried about how I run my business? Could it be that it upsets you when I have free time to rebut your ridiculous statements? Worry about collecting your check that others are paying for, and leave my business to me. You'll have to refresh my memory on the "I saw it on a video" quote, don't recall that one. And I didn't use some random sighting from my alleged past as proof to verify my statement, you did. And, just a reminder, I offered to come out from behind the screen and you so far have declined.
"Reasoning with a liberal is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end. " Pirate

veritas's picture
verified

Both of us are already out

Both of us are already out from behind screens, Gil. And if you haven't figured that one out, then you shouldn't even be playing in the minor leagues here, much less with Big Kids.

It's not my job to refresh your memory. If you can't keep up - take notes. But in your case, you have no idea where you're going because you don't remember where you've been.

So now you admit to being a subcontractor. Whatever the painful truth is, at your age you should be out working. You've got a lot of free time on your hands, and jealous of those 'who get checks.' Sounds like you have a problem. Perhaps education or working toward the goal of retirement (in several careers) may have helped that. Not my problem, but evidently yours.

And not something you can cure with vapid little remarks about 'liberals' - such as you have - but with a liberal work ethic and stick-to-it-ness. Such as I applied.

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When I was a young Sailor - I drank like a Sailor, fought like a Sailor, and screwed like a Sailor. Now that I am old and wise - I have a few scars, but many fond memories.

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