Franklin
Public shows strong opposition to low-flying aircraft
FARMINGTON — A public comment session was held Saturday at the University of Maine at Farmington to hear citizens' opinions on the Environmental Impact Statement released by the Air National Guard concerning their proposal to lower flight training altitude over western Maine.
Gov. John Baldacci has already released a statement opposing the proposal. Many who offered their opinions at Saturday's hearing were in accordance with Baldacci; among these were Attorney General Janet Mills, state Reps. Tom Saviello, Jared Crockett, Paul Gilbert, Lance Harvell and Walter Gooley, as well as many concerned citizens.
Mills reassured the Guard that "we are not anti-military in any sense of the word," but she was not pleased with the Guard's proposal. She also mentioned that she was "appalled that no outreach has been made to the Penobscot Nation," which owns 47,000 acres under the proposed airspace.
Rep. Wayne Mitchell spoke for the Penobscot Nation: "We've stood shoulder to shoulder with the U.S. in every war, and we have nothing against the military ... but I request that our property be omitted from this plan."
Many representatives and citizens alike were concerned about the quality of the issued EIS, particularly the fact that much of the relevant information did not appear to be very up-to-date. Rep. Saviello pointed out that much of the most recent literature cited in the statement was published in the 1990s.
"If a student had handed this in to me, they would have failed," Saviello said.
Rep. Jared Crockett concurred, saying, "I'm generally very sympathetic to more training ... [but] this request should be denied until the EIS is written properly."
Many citizens were particularly concerned about the effect that the air traffic would have on the western region's economy, especially the tourism industry. Warren Cook, a representative of Saddleback Maine, pointed out that the recent increase in tourism has been vital to the Franklin County economy. Interfering with these activities could cause it to suffer again. "I suggest that you conduct an Economic Impact Study," Cook said.
One citizen who stood out from the crowd was Raymond Cramer, a World War II veteran who pointed out that Americans have not usually had to get out of the way for the military, but it was done in World War II. He said he believes that it is something that we should not object to doing again. He said the western Maine mountains provide "the best shot at letting (pilots) to know what it's like," referring to the war in Afghanistan. "Let's find a way to make this work," Cramer suggested.
Another citizen, Karen Pease, objected to this, pointing out that "we have the right to say no."
Air National Guard representatives at the hearing said that "this is a growing document" and that those who contributed would be informed when changes are made.
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verified The sound of
The sound of Freedom:
Wilderness, Peace, Tranquility, Respect, Animals, Children, Laughter, Family, Cooperation, Love, Water, Wind, Heartbeat.
The sound of War:
Mach 1, F 15, Bombs, Guns, Cannons, Condor, Crying, F 16, Scared, Scarring, Deceit, Deployment, Death.
Which do you want in the mountains of western Maine?
Which do you want for the sons and daughters you proudly salute?
The sounds of War DO NOT begot the sounds of Freedom.
Thank you Mac antSaior- I
Thank you Mac antSaior- I will be looking you up!
Where were all you
Where were all you pro-military people yesterday when we needed you. There were 2 people that coherently spoke in favor of the low level flight training, me being one of them. I was the last to speak and it took every ounce of courage to get up there and read my letter. A bit shaky, but I got through it and what disappointed me the most, was that 3/4 of the group had already left by 4 and I didn't speak until after 7. That was including the media, but also R. Cramer who was defending the military and their request for this training. I would have liked for him to see that he had a comrade in this mission but that's ok as my goal was to stand before my USAF and the ANG and tell them that my butt is grateful for what they are trying to attain in our great state. It mattered none to me that our states' attorney general and other elected delegates chose to leave after they spoke as it wasn't them whom I chose to address. It was an honor to stand before these people representing our military defense and I will always take pride in knowing I got to shake their hands and express my sincere thanks for all they do for us. My speech was aimed at a more humanitarian approach as figures and statistics just don't matter when it comes to serving our country. These women and men deserve every option they can possibly have for optimal training and with my house being right under their fly zone, ROCK ON! Use it as I want to live my life as I choose.
verified Sorry I've been out of the
Sorry I've been out of the loop on these meetings. Until now, I've also seen them as superfluous as the military usually trumps petty state govt. noise. As a former Naval Air Traffic Controller I would be happy to stand beside you in any future meetings.
It is the undauntable thought, my friend. The one that says, "I'm right!" ~Bobby Sands
I live in an area that these
I live in an area that these jets are flying in. I have witnessed these jets flying WELL below 500 feet on numerous occasions. While I am an advocate for training, I do not condone these jets flying over my house at sonic speeds of mach 1... and not being able to carry on a conversation because the noise from these jets is at unacceptable decibel levels.
For all of you flatlanders who think the sound of jets flying over your house at 200 feet AGL is the sound of freedom-- think again!
I concur with the Penobscot Nation... please omit my land from this plan!
verified Mach 1 is supersonic, not
Mach 1 is supersonic, not sonic. Under no circumstances are aircraft to fly below 500' above a structure or residence. If you have reasonable proof that this limit has been breached, you should contact their command. Above trees etc... they can skim the tops if they want, but not above a dwelling.
It is the undauntable thought, my friend. The one that says, "I'm right!" ~Bobby Sands
verified Are these people going to
Are these people going to attend the funerals of our aircrews when they are put into action ill-prepared?
It is the undauntable thought, my friend. The one that says, "I'm right!" ~Bobby Sands
BLAH BLAH BLAH!! Trees,
BLAH BLAH BLAH!! Trees, wildlife, fuel; relaxing it’s the same resistance no matter what. These tree huggers need to realize that if it were not for those men and women flying these planes they would not have the freedom to enjoy anything! I find it rather interesting to watch these highly trained men and women fly “my” multimillion dollar piece of equipment in training to keep my A$$ FREE and Safe! I enjoy hearing the roar of them coming and talking about them with my children. I happen to live in a current flight pattern and would be in the area of concern by some. I say fly as low as you want and as often as you want, that is the least we can do for the men and women that keep us safe while we sleep comfortably in our beds.
Climate change has already
Climate change has already claimed countless innocent victims around the world and could reach a tipping point from which it cannot be stopped. Even if I believed these flights made me more personally secure, I couldn’t be so stupid as to support such a gargantuan consumption of fuel when placed in the context of a planet threatened with survival.
Domestic consumption of oil just for military aviation fuel exceeds 2.6 billion gallons a year and represents the largest use of fuel by any industry in the world. With such mammoth usage gobbling up finite resources, military aviation exercises do not protect our national security, they threaten it.
If the military wins this battle over flight exercises it will be a Pyrrhic Victory in light of the global cost. Flight simulators are never going to be the real thing, but the technology has improved a great deal and, in a time of monster deficits, they also save a lot of money.
If you would like to learn more about this issue, see http://www.westernmainematters.org
Ms. Seger, flight simulators
Ms. Seger, flight simulators are already used extensively by military pilots. Unfortunately, simulators can only simulate so much. That is why actual flights are so necessary. I look forward to hearing these planes - jets and helicopters both - fly by overhead. It reminds me that there are brave men and women out there who are willing to put their lives on the line for all of us, including the NIMBY Brigade.
"The democracy will cease to exist when the government takes from those who would work and gives to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson.
Obviously a fiction writer!
Obviously a fiction writer!
Unfortunately, our news
Unfortunately, our news media seem so pressed by deadlines and editors that there is precious little time to completely understand almost anything other than who won the latest professional sports game. The Massachusetts Air National Guard is making its third effort at gaining rights to expand their presence in Maine--to the detriment of our state. To Journal contributor " summer", may I please correct your impression as to the number of projected incursions? The request states that there will be more than 1,000 overflights per year (the current number), they will take place at all hours of the day and night and under all conditions. The request is not even limited to the aircraft currently being used: The F15 and F16 fighter jets and the KC-135 flying tankers (to practice refueling). According to General Rice, the Condor 1 & 2 Military Operations Area will be made available to any and all aircraft flown by the U. S. Military.
As far as impact is concerned, suppose someone told you that at some period of time--which would NOT be specified, but which could be daily--they were going to fire a cannon (or even a .357 magnum handgun or a 10 gauge shotgun) 500 feet or so from you. Could you really relax even it you were told that they would do their very best not to hit you?
I suggest you go to your library and read a copy of their proposal--it is 176 pages long and it will take some effort, but then you could comment on it from a knowledge base instead of relying on "quick quotes" or "sound bites" to make your comments. If you cannot find a copy in your library, ask the librarian to get one on inter-library loan.
And, Thank you for being interested.
The Mass ANG already uses
The Mass ANG already uses the Condor MOAs right now at all hours of the day in all conditions. Nothing new there. The Condor MOAs are currently available to any and all military aircraft. Nothing new there. Air refueling generally takes place in an AR Track which the Condor MOAs aren't. VR840 and VR841 currently sit underneath the Condor MOAs and are currently used by many military aircraft including the Mass ANG as low as 100' AGL. This website shows the current VR routes in operation as well as photos of some of the planes using them.
http://www.eskerridge.com/bj/vr840/vr840.html
The problem with the VR routes is that the planes need to fly the entire route from entry to exit in order to conduct their training. As you can see from the map depicting the routes there is a lot of distance covered and a lot of potential environmental impact. I can't stress this enough, these VR routes are currently being used in their entirety by several military aircraft not just the Mass ANG. One other point about using the VR routes is that the ceiling must be 3000' AGL and visibility must be 5 miles so they really aren't used in all conditions. With a little forward thinking you will see that if you extend the base of the Condor 1 airspace along a route confined to roughly the lateral confines of the VR routes and maybe 50 miles long then the military aircraft already using the Condor airspace and the VR routes can drop down from a higher altitude use the portion of the VR route that they need for training and pop back up to a higher altitude having less environmental impact then if they were to fly the entire VR route as currently required. You can even request restrictions on the Condor base extension to particular days of the week or particular times of day that way you can control the use of it. The proposal is poorly written but the military always asks for everything, the key is to give them some but take some away as well. Who knows by giving them a 5o or even 100 mile slice of airspace you might be able to prove that there is no need for the entire VR Routes.
Now as far as your gun analogy, if you go to this website you can actually find out the current scheduled use of the Condor MOAs and the VR routes. The Condors are required to be scheduled 2 hours in advance but they are usually scheduled well in advance of that.
http://sua.faa.gov/sua/Welcome.do
Well said Ernest.
Well said Ernest.
verified The cost of freedom is not
The cost of freedom is not cheap. It comes with hardships. Many many military men and women have given their lives so that you can complain about the noise in english.
Be thankful they are
Be thankful they are American planes, and call the sound, a sound of freedom.
Mr Cramer says it all..how
Mr Cramer says it all..how can our men and women be prepared to fly in a real combat situation if they cannot train? They will not be flying these jets daily...nor even weekly, but occasionly. How can 2 or 3 planes, flying overhead for an hour or so a month hurt tourisium, or agriculture, or the economey? personally I cannot wait to watch them fly! I will stand proud and salute them as they fly over my head!
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verified on "P. Nachman: Confidence probably misplaced"
Ronald, If you have not
Ronald,
If you have not noticed, everything I’ve listed is a growth in the size of government, a growth in government spending or a program in crisis.
A tax cut does not belong in that list. While a tax cut may grow the size of the national debt, a tax cut does not necessarily grow the size of government nor does it increase spending.
Moreover, you selectively forgot to add your favorites, Bill Clinton and Obama, to your list of tax cutting presidents. Any reason why? Maybe your Cuban pharmacist is giving you placeboes!
verified on "G. Decoteau: They deserve each other"
I second
I second the motion!!!!
- Agree Agree (1)
- Disagree Disagree (1)
verified on "P. Nachman: Confidence probably misplaced"
Not surprising
It is not surprising that the Czarist and racist factions of the old "Conservatively" Russian front are continually becoming seen all over again. The entire facets of hatred and fear seem to be predated in concepts from Stalin and Hitler himself. Using the vileness of the "outsider" as the most dangerous among us. Mr. Nachman you remind me of a classmate of mine who had felt that as she was of Czech descent that my mothers lineage of Irish-Jewry made it so that I would have to kneel before here.
As a Baptist this is rather disappointing to see that for all of the physics based knowledge one can posses creating an air of fear is the only true self-gratification one can get. In fact this is a bondage between those in the systems of your own family as well. The racism and the scaffolded humanist rejections with an air of continual fear is little more then self-centered egotistical facets. It seems to thrive on fear and donations to establish a "cult" mandated sense of the opine in writing and creates a narrow minded view of those who think differently.
Mr. Nachman while you enjoy the daily purges of illegal "aliens" does any of this truthfully set you so far apart from Stalin or Hitler? The very nature of the article which you write is more of instilling fear toward others; then little more then that? Is this a case where in reverse desperation anyone not deemed American would have to kneel down before you? The questions becomes of the VDare project just how much of a diaspora it would create and exiles as well if they had ever been given enough control to expel other Americans.
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