How about instead of a general bounty, you hire a few experienced, trustworthy hunters around the state who can target true problem coyote populations as issues arise?
And how about all the pregnant deer that have been killed by humans (in their vehicles) this week alone?
And how about the fact that we killed off all the natural predators of coyotes a long time ago?
And when are we going to admit to all the poaching in this state and start turning people in instead of turning a blind eye?
How about all of the cover that has been lost in the northern part of the state due to poor forestry practice?
There is more to this and you are over-simplifying.
and I know it's not much to you, but I do complain about all the cell towers popping up all over the place. Up until a few months ago, we had no cell coverage at our house. I didn't care one bit. Now one has gone up on a hill in town or over the line (not sure exactly what hill it's on) and it sticks out like a sore thumb. I now have cell coverage at the house, but still don't use it and happily would have gone on that way.
Calling it a bargaining tool is being generous. Regardless, it's gross. How the staff of Patriot Renwables could sit through 3.5 hours of testimony in Dixfield regarding the Saddleback Ridge project in Carthage and still sleep at night is something I'll never understand. We're not rolling over, PR. What about the people who have to live with these useless wind turbines?
Would these three teachers take money that was the direct result of a threat (of not making the gift) to stop a group from exercising their legal rights? I'm sure they must have higher moral standards than that.
Siting massive wind projects on the tops of mountains will never be good for Maine. And companies like Patriot Renewables have driven a wedge between neighbors in town after town in this state. Such a shame.
Much remains to be seen. We all understand that the employees of the DEP are working within laws that they did not make. I do not envy their positions. There is so much at stake with this permit application. As one speaker last Thursday night asked, "Will this project be rubber stamped or will you (DEP) be profiles in courage?" This can be a turning point in Maine history. We need a moratorium on all wind projects. The tides are turning. Maine people are waking up. Let's review that *rushed* law in detail and think long and hard about the impact on Maine's people, environment, wildlife, and economy. Perhaps there is a place for large-scale wind projects somewhere but on a mountaintop? Siting is key. The siting in Maine--mountains, lakeside, near homes--is wrong.
87 year old man with a love for his home in Maine gets up to testify and you say something foolish like that. If you please, sir, do tell us about how after thousands upon thousands of wind turbines already running in the US, we have reduced our dependency on foreign oil? If you have the figures, I know we'd all love to see them.
It was such a late night, with so many fine citizens pleading for the DEP to save rural Maine mountain ridgelines that I am too tired to comment in any detail. Public opinion is shifting. Countless towns from western Maine to eastern Maine are enacting ordinances to protect their citizens and their beloved landscape. The clock is ticking. What will become of Saddleback Ridge and the people who call Carthage, Wilton, Weld, etc. home or home away from home?
can make comments or ask questions--not just the three listed by the reporter. Residents of Weld and Wilton will also be impacted by this project, along with anyone who cares about the environment and has an interest in this area.
to get an education on what's coming. One dozen 450 foot wind turbines in a very rural, but settled town--visible from Carthage (obviously), Wilton, Jay, Dixfield, Weld/Mt. Blue St Park, etc. For or against, this is a solid opportunity to understand what is proposed and close to approval in Carthage, as well as, proposed in many neighboring towns.
What will the cumulative impact be? No one knows and state employees are not allowed to discuss. Why is that?
there have been quite a few so-called "restrictive" ordinances passed in various towns around Maine. Have any of them been challeged legally and had to be defended in court?
you are uneducated on this subject matter, sir. Read the DEP permit apps for these projects. If you do not like western Maine or care about the scenic quality here or about mountains in general, then I guess we have nothing to talk about. But don't pretend you really know what you are talking about.
those folks at Mars Hill would be happy to sell you their beautiful homes for a decent price. The ones near these River Valley projects will be a bargain, too.
to re-grow rock, I'd love to hear about it. I asked Andy Novey once and he didn't know either. Some vegetation is allowed to re-grow, yes. That which is not kept at bay with herbicides regularly anyway. But you can't put a mountain back together again once it has been blasted.
Really? Within a mile of those mountains? That doesn't sound right to me. There are people in Wilton who would probably be affected. Jo Josephson, industrial wind is not green. It is an industrial development on mountain ridges and mountaintops that are ruining the beauty in Maine. But I am not surprised you are pushing it. It's kind of your MO. You clearly listened to something Obama or Gore said and think you know. Take some time to educate yourself.
Location, location, location. The siting of turbines on mountaintops is poor siting with far-reaching consequences.
the entire state of Maine does not need to be industrialized. People (neither tourists nor year-rounders) don't come to Lewiston/Auburn to get away from it all. They head for the hills and the lakes.
The jobs are not local jobs and they are temporary. If there is one perm job left, it is unlikely to be filled by someone local.
to live in an industrialized area, in a pit say like Auburn or Lewiston, we would. Temple is in a highly scenic, rural area and wind power doesn't bring jobs.
Temple, walk away. It's a quagmire. You have a lot of residences both in your own town and in neighboring towns like Wilton within hearing distance of where those turbines would likely be erected and you will make everyone miserable and angry.
Please be a good neighbor and craft a solid ordinance.
I'm not clear on how the wind turbines, which provide (a tiny bit) of electricity, will replace your heating oil or put gas in your car?? This will drive down our heating oil prices how?
The environmentalists, the innkeepers, the tourism people--you are all contradicting yourselves. You are the very ones who support the industrial wind movement which will dramatically alter inland Maine. You will not be able to throw a rock without hitting a 40 story tall wind turbine but your angry about loosening these rules?
You can't have it both ways, folks. I'm angry about LePage's proposed changes, too. But I would also like to ask (scream from the mountaintops, actually): WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS?! Baldacci did just as much damage with the expedited wind law. I'll stand right next to you and fight but only if you hear those of us in quiet, beautiful, traditional, popular recreational areas all over western, northern, and eastern Maine who have been trying to tell you the same thing about industrial wind. Until that time, you are falling on deaf ears for those of us who REALLY care about Maine's unique and rugged qualities.
Oh, so unfair to Patriot Renewables. They are such cry-babies. Too bad!! This is a major change to a very rural, mostly undeveloped, beautiful area with virtually no precedence. If the project is so worthy, it can wait until every stone is turned over.
And yes, there is a DEP permit process that the wind companies must go through but the hands of those experts who comment on the application from various state departments are tied by the expedited wind law. The floodgates were opened with that law and very little of Maine's special places (special to many of us anyway) are protected.
Wind companies have had the red carpet rolled out for them. They can stop pretending life is unfair.
I just couldn't kill such a beautiful animal. I try to be non-judgemental about hunting. Like others have said, to put fresh, "free range" meat on the table rather than buying it at Hannaford is one thing...but bobcats? I just can't get there.
who just happened to be in your offices when you were discussing the change in online commenting? He won't be happy with the online commenting in opposition to the rape of Maine's mountains regardless of whether people reveal their real names.
The problem with these projects, editorial board, is SITING. The proposed siting of projects on the tops of mountains all over the region, one ridgeline after another, is the result of a greedy governor and a visionless legislature. These structures with their red aviation lights are over 400 feet tall, dominate the landscape, and are built too close to homes that no one will want to buy from current owners. Period. Thank GOD for red tape. Unfortunately, red tape is all that's left after that thoughtless law was written.
on why First Wind would be invited to the party. Haven't they already had their say? The vision you have for the future of your town is just that. By "picking the wrong number" (Roger Arsenault's words) I guess he means that if the set-backs or noise levels are too restrictive, First Wind would walk away. Safety of the residents who live close to these projects come first. And, really, I include their financial safety in that. We need a better understanding of how these projects affect home values as this is a serious issue for those who are not stakeholders but who stand to be seriously impacted financially. Once these and other issues are determined, then you write the ordinance. To ask First Wind to make sure the ordinance is right for them *before* figuring out if it's right for residents...why bother with an ordinance at all? It's up to First Wind to then work within the restrictions of the ordinance if possible. If it's not possible, then you recognize that the proposed project is not a good site for a large-scale wind farm. Can't have it both ways.
A couple of other towns in your area like Buckfield and Wilton already have wind ordinances that you could also look at, as well. With all of the industrial wind activity in the River Valley and in western Maine in general, it would be prudent to have something on the books. Otherwise, you do what the DEP tells you to do.
Angus King has a vested interest in comments made here about his Independence Wind projects in western Maine. That's OK, but let's not pretend that the guy has a deep concern for what the Sun Journal does for any other reason.
My son's elementary school still celebrates Christmas. There was a giving tree in the lobby for a month *covered* in tags from families in need of warm clothing for their children. Generous people in the community (and it is a poor community overall) emptied that tree as we do every year. Tomorrow is the last day before vacation and there will be a classroom party with drinks and treats. On some levels, these rural schools are a sad place because so many kids come from struggling families without a lot of resources. Who knows what they go home to each day or what their Christmas will be like. It's 30 minutes of laughter and getting sugared up with fellow students who generally work hard all year. And anyone with a young child knows: the kids are focused on school work the last couple of days before Christmas vacation. That said, there is not an *emphasis* on Christmas during school time. They have done a couple of art projects that are Christmas-oriented. Had the teacher decided to do a Hannukah-related project or game as we did when I was a school kid, that would have been good, too. I would not have been outraged if the holidays had come and gone at school without celebration. But as long as all parents are on board and no one feels slighted, it seems to be a happy time for the kids.
Our child actually does have allergies and asthma and I have to just hope (based on a bit of training they've had) that the teachers and school secretary can tell what is an emergency and what is a simple virus. Our school nurse splits her time between more than two schools and is almost never there. It is rare that I venture further than the next town, in part, because of this. Like you said, it is a budget issue and not the fault of staff.
I hope your daughter is feeling better.
Each time I see a letter in here about the deer herd and coyotes, I wonder if everyone understands just how much human poaching there is in this state. It's a huge problem.
has a reasonable, consicise small and large scale wind ordinance. Four pages. Passed at town meeting. Better protection than the DEP offers but does not give the appearance of banning wind. That said, I do strongly feel that industrial wind should be properly sited. I do not feel that the expedited wind law is fair or maybe even legal. I do not feel that mountains are appropriate sites for such large projects both for environmental and economical reasons. Particularly, when we see the cumulative impact of having so many ridgelines taken over in this one area. I think there will be a backlash once we reach critical mass. I've spent way more time researching this than I care to and after over a year of doing so, I haven't changed my mind. Probably won't, either.
And, no, I pick my battles. The CMP meter thing doesn't concern me. What does concern me are the transmission upgrades that were approved under the guise of "aging lines" when it was, in fact, all about wind power.
Above, I see a comment from Special Interest which says, "The crazy lady Karen Pease from Lincoln Township brought her circus to Muskie auditorium." I did not see the removed comment. I'm all for the policy of prohibiting name-calling and personal attack, but wonder how Special Interest's comment escaped your policy. Perhaps my definition differs from yours.
who created the expedited wind law which is helping to destroy all we hold dear in western Maine. Quicknote, you need to take a quick look at all of the ridgelines under assault by the wind industry in this area. 400 foot turbines take a lot of clear cutting and blasting and herbicide. The liberals (which I had always counted myself one of) aren't gonna help.
I drive about the speed limit (at least the speed limit or slightly over). But I get tailed constantly on rural roads and along routes 2 and 4 by a variety of drivers--many teenager just getting out of school, grown women on cell phones, guys in huge pick-up trucks--from in and out-of-state. Stupidity doesn't seem to start at the border or pick and choose age or gender.
But I think this letter writer has every right to ask folks to slow down on her road. When we lived on a busier road with a small child, I stopped people all the time and lectured them for going 45 in a 25. For all the good it did. I wish you luck. It's really hard to get people to think of anyone but themselves. If they hit a walker, it will change their lives and they will regret being in such a hurry. Until then, it's a crapshoot. The police can't be everywhere.
Don't you? I'm a liberal Dem, I'm uneducated. Wrong and wrong. You're boring me. Can't you do better than that?
Good luck getting a full-time, permanent job from a wind compay, by the way. They LOVE people like you. You actually take them at their word even with all the evidence to the contrary. Hey, I've got a bridge to sell you...and some First Wind stock.
Hmmmm. Robert Rand isn't "with" Karen Pease and he is the same engineer who presented to the residents of Phillips. I guess you're not gonna give ten cheers to Phillips anymore...
My second paragraph states how Phillips conducted themselves (not sure what can be disagreed with), how they worked to protect their town (again, it's all there in the ordinance), and how wind companies change the scale of their projects after they get a foot in the door. This is well established. They've done it in every town. Look it up.
There has been an acoustical engineer who has studied Mars Hill and Freedom extensively who was at the last one or two forums held for the River Valley. You just didn't like what he said because just like in Phillips, the resulting ordinance would likely keep big wind out of Rumford.
Phillips did do a great job. They enacted a moratorium during the study and ordinance-writing phase, studied the subject in a very open way (multiple forums that anyone from the public could attend regardless of which town you live in), presented the ordinance for review, and then voted on it. They now have an ordinance which will protect their citizens. If you are a wind company, however, you're probably not going to find it inviting. MAYBE if the technology improves and the turbines are quieter, towns like Phillips will have more interest. But right now, it's buyer beware. They come in talking about one sized turbine and by the time they're done, the turbines could be quite a bit taller and noisier. It's about getting their foot in the door. Aside from the noise, there are the obvious asthetic issues and I don't blame a bucolic town like Phillips for wanting to protect their viewshed.
We don't OWN land in Carthage. I said we were looking to BUY land in Carthage before this mess started. We are no longer interested in purchasing property in that town because the land no longer holds value for us. Go back and read what I said.
It would be DUMB to buy property in south Carthage now.
for what it's worth and to be clear...that we were looking at land in south Carthage until we learned of this project. We could not buy as much as the Berry's have, of course, but it would have been something. We are a survey of one, but I can tell you that we are one family for whom the land in Carthage is now devalued due to this wind project. We don't want to pay property taxes there (and as non-residents we would have no input) and we don't want to be in close proximity to the turbines.
I'm not jealous of the Berrys. I'm not anti-logging ("some of my best friends are loggers") but I am for responsible logging and management. I do not live in Carthage, but I live closeby. I did live there at one time. Carthage has been the butt of jokes for many years around here, but I always defended that town. Some of my happiest memories are right there. It is a beautiful place. I've canoed the Webb River, I've hiked/snowshoed all around. I've appreciated the wildlife. I've enjoyed extremely quiet, cold, snowy nights.
I am not making fun of the Berry's for wanting to make money off their land. While I am opposed to this project, I understand they have a legal right to sell/lease their land. I guess you COULD say I'm jealous of anyone who owns acreage in Carthage. If I had the money to own and maintain land there with good stewardship, then I would have loved that. But not anymore. Not with this development coming. I wish more folks in Carthage could see their incredible land as a potential for conservation that could bring real pride to the town. I would happily pay a fee to recreate on it, though I could not afford to buy it. I understand there are taxes to be paid and that folks need the money. But I would have to be destitute to sell land like that to a wind company and even then, not sure I could do it...
I hope that when all these projects go up, those in favor are satisfied with the deals they've made. But you can't take it with you.
Perhaps with any luck, you will be close to an industrial wind installation someday. If you live near a ridgeline that's going in the right direction, there's a good chance of it. It's not just the wind turbines, it's what is done to these mountains in order to erect the turbines. We're talking about a fundamental change to what we know and love about western Maine. As many others seem to do, you are thinking about this (I assume) as ONE project rather than dozens of projects all located fairly close to each other in one region. Can you not imagine the cumulative effect when one ridgeline after another has been altered with 40 story tall buildings?
Seriously, as opposed as I am to wrecking this part of our state, if I really thought that these projects would stop the next oil spill, reduce my reduction of oil usage, send the troops home...I really think I could come around IF they did not hurt people or wildlife. But no one who is pro-wind has been able to show me the data of how exactly this is happening. There are areas out west and in the mid-west just littered with these things and they did not stop the last oil spill. And these mountains will NEVER recover from being blasted, either.
Also, there are quite a few families (I've lost track--over a dozen anyway) in Mars Hill who live within an unsafe range embroiled in a lawsuit over the damage to their lives. Personally, the last thing I want in my life is a legal battle. I just want peace and quiet. I really, really doubt that folks living in a rural area like that were just WAITING for an opportunity to sue someone. It's not they bought a house next to a railway or a airport and THEN started complaining. What kind of a person would just disregard his fellow Mainers like that?
A poster said yesterday that the turbines are SHUT DOWN in winter on Mars Hill for safety reasons. I have not verified that, but it would be worth checking into.
The Berry clan has never done anything positive for the environment. One only has to climb a hill/mountain and look down at their handiwork to see that. This is about the money. Silly to pretend otherwise this late in the game.
“We are trying to give people the answers they are looking for,” said Tom Carroll, project coordinator for both the Carthage and Dixfield turbine proposals.
Mitchell said: "Although other state's pursuit of offshore wind has become controversial, Mitchell said a wind project in the Gulf of Maine would likely cause less opposition because it wouldn't be seen by residents."
OH REALLY?! Well, what about us poor slobs faced with hundreds upon hundreds of these HUGE, ugly things here in inland Maine? People like Mitchell are attacking OUR santuaries but apparently we don't count.
Go to hell, Libby Mitchell and any other candidate who thinks the wealthy oceanfront residents (and a whole lot of non-residents) deserve better than those of us who love our mountains, woods, lakes, and wildlife.
Karen, you mention that you have developments proposed for both your front and your back yard. I've got one proposed for my front yard. While a string of these 40 story tall things will be the first thing I see each morning, I haven't been able to come up with any upside for our family. I'm not a resident of that town, I'm over the line in the next town. My CMP bill won't go down, I'll still be paying for my kid's education, my roads will still have the same old potholes, and I won't be able to hike on that beautiful ridge anymore. I don't think there will be any global changes (reduction in oil, troops coming home, etc.). I was just wondering, given you have a development on either side of you, what you expect the gain to you and yours will be? Will there be (could there be) enough to offset the change?
King is an outsider. The company is very much from away. What happens in these rural communities--the anger and divisiveness, the human and wildlife impacts--is no concern of his or theirs.
We can go around and around on this, but the bottom line is that experts have been brought but those in favor of wind power did not like what the experts said. Then you say that the experts were not good enough. This on top of all the appearances by wind company executives with all of their presentations. The information is out there. The dead horse has been beaten. What's left to say, really?
You are making a lot of assumptions about a family and basically spreading rumors that are unfounded. If you are against this ordinance or are pro-wind, then I suggest, as I have to someone else on here, that you focus on your task at hand which would be educating yourselves and your community best you can and vote as you wish. While we in Maine have a fear of outsiders (which First Wind most definitely is), I would not worry about those from the next town (not really from away) who are trying to educate Maine citizens on the facts they have gathered re: industrial wind. Those of you who are in favor of this project can hold a forum or speak up at meetings just the same anytime you want to make the effort and go to the expense.
Wow, you're a regular Nancy Drew, but what's your point? I don't really see a conflict of interest. I don't see how they stand to gain financially by fighting industrial wind. This vote is ultimately up to the folks in Rumford, you are right. Those who are opposed to industrial wind in Rumford are generally opposed to mountaintop industrial wind developments in Maine. And while they may not be residents of a particular town, they are still residents of MAINE--they appreciate the beauty, they hunt, fish, bike, hike...not just in their own town. In addition, there are concerns of the cumulative impact that these projects could have. This isn't one project, it is one of many--one ridgeline after another. Maybe you should consider getting out of your Rumford bubble and think about what this area will look like and sound like when/if we allow these projects on every suitable ridge or mountain in western Maine. So while you're right that this particular vote is Rumford's, I don't think that means that those from neighboring towns should not have a voice.
I meant to mention. You state, "The company representatives wait to answer questions asked of them calmly and directly without threat, intimidation, innuendo, avasion or rhetoric." This is not my experience with Patriot Renewables who have interests in Woodstock, Dixfield, and Carthage. I have not attended a First Wind meeting and so cannot comment on their behavior. I think you gathered that I am not in favor of industrial wind. But I really did have hope that when I attended a Carthage meeting held by PR that I would get some answers. I was warned I wouldn't, but I just couldn't believe that they could be that that dismissive. Well, they were. Andy Novey ran most of the meeting and his standard replies were as follows: "It's in the computer models," "It's proprietary," and "Next question." Lots of smirking, lots of sighs, and lots of looking down at the little people. I feel like I sound like I'm exaggerating but I really am not. If the information could not be found in his PowerPoint presentation, then you were not going to get a response. It was depressing. But when the majority of folks are not doing their own research--their own follow-up to the questions they had but did not receive answers to--then you ARE left with an uneducated bunch of people going off to the voting booths. So, we felt like PR had their one-sided presentation where they did not answer most of the concerns and so why shouldn't there be a forum where folks can get the other side of the story? We can't force PR to answer questions and we can't force them to provide experts in the field at their expense. Can Rumford citizens or Carthage or Dixfield force it? I don't know. I think others have tried and failed.
You can educate yourself anytime you want. The information is out there. One only has to take the time to study all sides of this issue and it is time-consuming. I understand your desire to have a panel of professionals that includes experts who are not from the wind companies, however, my guess is they cost money and that those trying to put on these forums don't have a budget. I believe there have been informational meetings in the River Valley that included experts from the state (names escape me, maybe someone on here can help me). Public meetings are required for all of these permit applications and at those you will find representatives from state agencies such as DEP and IFW, though I'm not sure how "free" they are to speak their minds. Regardless of what you think of Robert Rand, he is a qualified sound engineer and he has studied these sites in Maine extensively. If you don't like a side business he has or whatever, I don't see how that impacts his qualifications. I think it has more to do with your not liking the data as it does not support your own agenda.
But don't tell me that everyone in Rumford must remain ignorant due to a lack of access to information. Do your own research, print out studies from what you find, and distribute it. Document your sources and hand it in anonymously if you must. This is something you spend a lot of time thinking about, so I suggest you gather your data and see if you can find any (not created by wind companies or their investors) that supports industrial wind in Maine. There's nothing stopping you.
This is not the first time that wind industry and other more pro-wind speakers have been invited. As Karen said, they won't put themselves in a situation where they will have to debate other knowledgeable people. If they are so certain of their facts, then why not show up? I think more pro-wind residents would attend the meetings if there were pro-wind panelists and then you'd really have the chance for a debate and a better representation of concerned citizens, as well.
CommonSense, if you know how to make that happen, then have at it rather than complaining about it. My guess is you fear the wind industry folks will make fools out of themselves or that you will be proven wrong. Otherwise, why haven't you worked to help in this matter?
I'm speechless about this photo. Great filing system and it does say a lot about the way Carthage is run. Knowing the guys from Patriot Renewables, I can picture them high fiving each other out in the parking lot after their first meeting there.
the State has encouraged comprehensive plans and programs like Beginning with Habitat. It's OK to have a plan for our communities--a vision for how we want them to look and feel 10 years, 20 years, 50 years down the road. That is all this is--an opportunity. And this is the only chance to take control as a wind company that has lied repeatedly in other communities is breathing down your necks. They treat small communities in Maine like third world countries. As it turns out, we're smarter and more resourceful than they gave us credit for, with a love of our land and a desire for fairness.
There is a logging operation near our home. The grating sound of it bounces off our house from 8:00 to 4:00 each day. I hate it even though I know I live in Maine and need to accept that logging hapens. You know why I can tolerate it? Because they're done at the end of the day and they don't work on the weekends. I know there is an end in sight. With these industrial turbines, there is no escape and no control.
So what if it bans wind. This speaks directly to the fact that industrial wind needs to be sited responsibly. The science is there about how far the sound travels. Even a mile is probably not enough given the data from sound engineers. If First Wind can't work within those safety guidelines, then they will have to find sites that are not so close to dwellings.
The property tax payers in Wilton (and the non-home owners of Wilton) are extremely fortunate to have a beautiful park like Kineowatha, along with a great rec program. The punks in and around town have never and will never work a day in their lives. The police are being randomized with this stupid behavior.
Steve Brown says, “We want this project to happen in the best interest of the town, to see what kind of an agreement we could get from Patriot. It would expand our tax base, we'd receive royalties, and there would be a chance to keep a substantial amount of land open." Really? Well, if the work of FMM goes through, they'd probably keep it ALL open. It would be preserved and there would be NO blasting, no earth and rock removal, no habitat loss, no flashing lights or noise, and no useless, subsidy-driven 40 story tall wind turbines.
Really? Seems the town has had nearly a decade (the town voted to put that land into conservation but never did the due diligence and now come to find out the town has no idea who owns it) to figure this one out. This work should have been done a long time ago. Saddleback Mountain, the land in question, is a unique and beautiful place that can be seen from miles around. Now the small, greedy majority (though a shrinking one), without care for those who will be most effected, are wringing their hands over this heir, anxious to see clear cutting and blasting started for 40 story tall industrial turbines. Carthage is now a town fiercely divided. I can only imagine the laughter in the wind company board rooms as they count their dollars in subsidies, knowing they've duped another poor town without a comprehensive plan.
It's amazing how much of what we've been told by the governor and by the wind industry is totally false. And that we are made to feel unpatriotic (??) if we do not support industrial wind on our mountains. Thank you for your well-written letter, Mr. Kalloch. Your letter is a breath of fresh air. A picture is worth a thousand words. I encourage folks to check out http://www.windtaskforce.org/ for up-to-date photos of mountaintop wind projects in Maine, as well as, for some hard facts about what can only be described as a scam.
I don't have enough scientific knowledge to debate whether or not pot is bad for you. But I do know that it is illegal to distribute the stuff and not pay a DIME in taxes. So that's one reason why you get busted. Until it is legal (and I guess it probably will be eventually), you're making money and not paying taxes like the rest of us do when we make money legally.
Also, there seems to be this kind of "inner-city" (if you will) thing going on in Wilton. It's turning into the new armpit of Maine. There are quite a lot of deadbeats roaming around--domestic abusers, druggies, punks, alcoholics--and those are just the parents. There's a nice crop of kids they're bringing up to be just like them. It's my observation, and I'm willing to hear I'm off base, that folks like the ones busted here, selling an illegal drug out of their home, with children there, probably contributes to the overall decline of a town. Another sign of desperate times and losers beget losers. The more deadbeats who learn that Wilton is friendly to their kind, the more will move here. And then we won't just be dealing with pot.
Queen, I'm sure your heart is in the right place. Many in this fight felt the same way you did. But it's not just one wind project. It's not just Woodstock or just Carthage. Wind companies want to take vast swaths of undeveloped woods, streams, habitat, mountaintops and put huge turbines on the highest points. That's fragmentation and a total lack of respect for nature and the citizens who reside nearby. And they want to do this not on just one peak, but many. No one really knows what the cumulative effect would be to people and wildlife and tourism and ecosystem. The wind companies don't know (and I assure you they do not care about anything but the money) and the DEP doesn't know. And if they do know, they won't tell you. Try asking them a direct question at a meeting and see if you can get an answer that's not on their stale PowerPoint presentation. On top of which, your desire to be green is not going to be fulfilled with these projects. They're not going to stop the next oil spill. I wish it were true.
Queen, I'm sure your heart is in the right place. Many in this fight felt the same way you did. But it's not just one wind project. It's not just Woodstock or just Carthage. Wind companies want to take vast swaths of undeveloped woods, streams, habitat, mountaintops and put huge turbines on the highest points. That's fragmentation and a total lack of respect for nature and the citizens who reside nearby. And they want to do this not on just one peak, but many. No one really knows what the cumulative effect would be to people and wildlife and tourism and ecosystem. The wind companies don't know (and I assure you they do not care about anything but the money) and the DEP doesn't know. And if they do know, they won't tell you. Try asking them a direct question at a meeting and see if you can get an answer that's not on their stale PowerPoint presentation. On top of which, your desire to be green is not going to be fulfilled with these projects. They're not going to stop the next oil spill. I wish it were true.
Queen, I'm sure your heart is in the right place. Many in this fight felt the same way you did. But it's not just one wind project. It's not just Woodstock or just Carthage. Wind companies want to take vast swaths of undeveloped woods, streams, habitat, mountaintops and put huge turbines on the highest points. That's fragmentation and a total lack of respect for nature and the citizens who reside nearby. And they want to do this not on just one peak, but many. No one really knows what the cumulative effect would be to people and wildlife and tourism and ecosystem. The wind companies don't know (and I assure you they do not care about anything but the money) and the DEP doesn't know. And if they do know, they won't tell you. Try asking them a direct question at a meeting and see if you can get an answer that's not on their stale PowerPoint presentation. On top of which, your desire to be green is not going to be fulfilled with these projects. They're not going to stop the next oil spill. I wish it were true.
I don't believe a thing Angus King or anyone else from these wind companies says. Try sitting in a meeting in one of these small, unprotected towns and asking them a direct question and see if you can get an honest answer.
how the people of Carthage have been treated by their selectmen and by Patriot Renewables. Same strategy. Same evasiveness. You cannot get a straight answer out of a wind company rep. Buyer beware.
First Wind is also from out-of-state. You don't seem to get that they are the interlopers. They don't live here, don't vacation here, and they are 100% money-motivated. They don't care what you or anyone else feels after they do their business and leave. They don't care about what's green or what isn't. And you're right. Often, you cannot hear the turbines when you are directly beneath them. The sound doesn't travel that way. It travels OUT. The noise issues are real, however. It bothers some more than others, but there's no way to know in advance who will be hurt the most. If you live in town and feel you will not be bothered by the noise, then you are simply throwing your neighbors who will be bothered under a bus.
I moved here when I was 36 for the sake of my child. Quite the opposite from you, I guess. I thought growing up in a quiet, scenic place with loads of outdoor recreational opportunities, small schools with teachers you really get to know, and good people (mostly) was a good thing. Now I find out that all anyone cares about here is whether or not they get their roads paved in a timely manner and whether or not they get their government hand-out (which is all this is, really). I assumed people who were born and raised here, along with the people who chose to live here for the quiet and beauty, would lay down their lives to protect it. Boy, was I wrong. Maybe I will follow your lead, candiceanne, and leave for the sake of my child. I am sure as heck not going to take money from a wind company while I watch them rape the mountains I love.
"Selectmen then discussed among themselves where they are at in the ordinance development process. After which, Kiely asked that First Wind be allowed to help in the process by providing information and feedback."
The 48 who voted down the moratorium have spoken. You apparently won't know what you've got 'til it's gone. Start saying your prayers that Patriot Renewables who own a total of THREE turbines (which they didn't even build) knows what they are doing. Any company with this much of an impact on a town that will not look you in the eye and give you a straight answer when asked a direct question is out for themselves, not for you. Greed and stupidity ruled once again.
A year from now, if they start this project, those who tried to slow it down and get some answers will say, "We told you so."
If the folks at Patriot Renewables can't give you the answers to the questions you've asked repeatedly within the last year, perhaps they will take you more seriously once you've voted for a moratorium. If this is such a wonderful, beneficial project with sound financial backing (that is undisclosed), then six months won't be a problem.
Your neighbors in Wilton just passed a wind ordinance covering both small and industrial sized projects. Towns like Dixfield, Weld, Rumford, Phillips, and Buckfield are working on theirs. Many other towns have ordinances in place. Why not Carthage?
100 people working? But most or not any from Franklin County! Andy Novey, et al were unable to answer any question during the Q&A with any detail. Either it was "We have computer models" or "We can't tell you that, it's proprietary" or "Next question"...the people of Carthage and YES, their neighbors in other towns who will be impacted (yet not receive a dime of compensation) have the right to detailed answers, too. This is a major, industrial project. Vote for a moratorium and allow yourselves the time to squeeze the answers out of Patriot Renewables. If it's such a great and well-funded project, then what difference will six months make?
The selectmen may become very unpopular if this industrial complex is constructed and if folks aren't given a REAL and educated opportunity to vote on the matter. I understand how you feel, northwoods. But let's give it a try, anyway. Carthage residents need to seize this chance. There is growing concern now that the idea of the project has had a chance to sink in.
Your neighbors thank you for considering slowing down this project. We may not live in Carthage, but we love the beauty of your town. We like to admire it's pristing mountains and we like to hunt, hike, bike, etc. there. And many of our friends live in Carthage so we care about how you will be affected by a project with 19 40 story structures towering over your landscape and potentially causing noise problems. Clearly, you have stopped and asked yourselves, "Is this the legacy we want for our town, for our kids?"
I hope many will make this meeting Thursday night so that you may ask Patriot Renewables--a company that has only installed THREE turbines in their careers--the hard questions, ask them to put what they promise in writing, and consider a moratorium to allow yourselves more time to try to answer those nagging doubts about what the future would hold with this project.
of this idea. I hope it sticks. Cocoa Puffs cereal with chocolate milk, sausage breakfast pizza, chicken fingers, fruit in syrup....these kids eat nothing but beige food all day. We can do better.
What exactly do you think oil has to do with this? Have you been drinking the Angus King Kool-Aid? Do you believe that wind turbines will stop our consumption of oil in any way? If so, please tell us how that will work exactly.
that they pulled the rug out from everyone in Massachusetts who thought Cape Wind was a good idea. Just a week after gaining approval of the project, they announce that the cost to build it would be as much as THREE times the original estimate. Plus MA residents' electric bills will go up and up. This is what happens when you aren't paying attention, folks. I know that those in Rumford will not be fooled.
I don't think anyone who wants to preserve Maine's mountains takes the oil spill lightly. Everyone is saddened by that disaster and the lack of accountability there. However, destroy Maine's scenic beauty or not, the drilling isn't going to stop and oil isn't powering your refrigerator or your hair dryer or your lights anyway. And you want to talk boondoggles? How about Cape Wind (First Wind)? MA residents are going to be paying through the nose for their electricity and within a week of approval, it was announced that the project would cost up to three times the original estimate. Sounds like another Big Dig fleece job to me.
Those who choose to live or vacation in areas of this state that are pristine understand what will be lost. They know the irreprable harm that will come from industrializing these special and fragile areas of the state. And they know that Big Wind is not worth the sacrifice. Once the blasting starts, once the trees are cleared and the roads are built and the power lines are strewn, they won't stop. There won't be any second chance to get this right.
Doug Rooks was right last weekend when he lamented that these projects are not flying under the radar. Local citizens are enacting moratoriums and creating ordinances to protect themselves and their towns. We are not rolling over for companies like First Wind and Patriot Renewables and we are not apologizing.
Yes, Mr. Powell, I wish someone could answer that for us. Not a peep from Baldacci or anyone else who is supposed to represent us. Those who don't live at the coast have been forgotten. As Mr. Rooks laments in Sunday's paper, these were seemingly flying under the radar and they hoped it would always be that way. But the smart folks of inland Maine are educating themselves and we are not buying it.
It's mother's day and I don't have a lot of time to pick apart this disgusting column. However, there is one statement that sums up what has happened here:
"After proceeding almost below the radar during the first half-dozen large projects, wind power is controversial in many Maine communities. Some towns have adopted moratoriums while others have enacted ordinances that arbitrarily bar wind towers within a mile of any residence."
The author is lamenting the days when these industrial projects slipped through unnoticed. The days of back-door deals with selectmen and land owners are OVER. We are adopting moratoriums and ordinances because the State of Maine and the wind thieves left us with no choice. Get used to it, Rooks. And if wind is such the boon that you say it is, if it is worth the sacrifice of Maine's unique and highly valued landscape, then you have nothing to worry about. Right?
I just hope what the Boston Herald said yesterday about Cape Wind costing as much as three times the original estimate isn't true. It just couldn't be. Could it?
I think most people in town understand that this increase was held off for as long as possible. Also, I think Wilton people have a certain amount of trust in the town government. They wouldn't consider this if it were not necessary. Plus we have the opportunity for an up or down vote in June.
Mills flip-flopped on this issue seemingly overnight. One minute she indicated real concern for those in Mars Hill suffering from the affects of wind-related noise. Then suddenly she was essentially calling them liars or crazy, stating that it was impossible for wind turbines to cause sleep deprivation or daytime disturbances. State employees have been mandated by the so-called emergency wind power legislation to encourage and make easy the siting of industrial-scale wind projects anywhere with a ridgeline. Mills is just another one of Baldacci's sheeples. We need a governor who appreciates the uniqueness and beauty of inland Maine and who recognizes that this legislation was a scam.
I think I'll march (clothed) at the same time and my sign will say, "If you're going to march without a shirt on, please start using a gym." Ugh. That goes for the men, too. Please, just step away from the drive-thru and march yourselves right over to the UMF gym before showing us what you've got.
And at risk of being a broken record, it is normal and biologically correct for men to want to look at breasts. They are sexual--some of the time--and that's OK. They are not just for breastfeeding (which I have done and fully support anywhere, anytime).
Ultimately, I don't really care. I have nothing against women going topless, particularly at beaches, for example, but their reasoning behind the march is faulty.
I guess I'm a left wing wacko. Try to understand that this issue does not fall neatly to the left or right. It's about the fleecing of everyone. I thought I was pro-wind until I did my homework. These companies can only do this thanks to subsidies. I get that but I wish more people like you did. I would like to hear where you got the idea that wind energy reduces our dependence on foreign oil, though. Did you get that from Baldacci? King? Someone else who has based their livelihood or future livelihood on the proliferation of wind turbines in Maine?
than the (inconsistent) wind that blows over them. Mr McKay and Mr. Tibbetts are correct. This project will affect you one way or another. Anyone--Dixfield residents, as well as, folks who just enjoy western Maine mountains for their recreational opportunities and scenic beauty. This isn't just about my backyard or your backyard. This is about one mountain ridge and mountaintop after another in every direction in western Maine. Once these 40 story tall industrial machines go up, they aren't coming down no matter what the fallout is. For those who believe that the guys from Patriot Renewables are riding in on their white horses to save us from foreign oil, think again. Folks need to show up to these meetings so they can educate themselves and to have a voice in the future of this state.
Everything comes at a price and neither Woodstock nor Waterford would be getting their electricity for free. What little (unreliable) power that would be generated from these noisy, 40 story tall towers goes out of state. The point is that the wind companies look for towns without ordinances and comprehensive plans FOR GOOD REASON. For one, they do not have to compensate those who live near the turbines for the negative impacts as there is nothing in the town law about mitigation waivers. And when there are problems, there is no recourse. Having trouble with that turbine 600 feet from your house? Can't sleep at night? Too bad. You voted down a moratorium. The only hope now is to create an ordinance and quick. Kudos to those in Woodstock who had the foresight to vote yes. Buyer beware to the others.
...why weren't the school aged children in school rather than being babysat while the mother was "out of town" (out of town like in Jay or out of town like in another state ?). Kudos to the 12 year-old for getting help right away. Way too much responsibility on her young shoulders.
where in Maine I can go where I will not be face to face with these 40 story buildings so I can move. Screw tourism and screw quality of place. Stop the low flying military flights because they are too loud and ruin the beauty of Maine. But blast all of our mountains, clear trees for new roads, and drive us out of the place we once loved so that some (little) extremely expensive and unreliable electricity can be sent out of state. We were living our dream. Now we are scrambling to find a new place to live.
in Woodstock. At 5:00, a public hearing re: the moratorium and at 6:00, a hearing with the DEP & Patriot Renewables. Residents need to get involved and there is very little time. The wind companies target towns without zoning and/or without ordinances. Woodstock, don't let PR and the DEP make this decision for you. Come up with your own rules so you can protect your land and citizens. Consider mitigation waivers so the control is in your hands. Many towns have gone before you. This can be done. Good luck.
I'm sorry to hear this, Weld. You are a *prime* target for wind vultures. I hope you will take your idea of forming a committee seriously and get to work on a wind ordinance before it is too late. Weld is so unique and so special.
Thanks, Paula. You speak for many of us who value wilderness. Many people don't seem to understand that we're not talking small-scale, residential cutesy windmills or even one or two industrial-scale wind projects. We're talking one ridge/mountain after another until you won't be able to look out from a viewpoint without seeing multiple large-scale projects. If these plans continue, Maine's landscape will be scarred forever. I have no question in my mind that this plan is the number one biggest mistake ever made in Maine and if we let it happen, people who live here and vacation here will wake-up and realize what was lost.
If you are a city person or if you stay inside most of the time and you do not consider the woods of Maine to be special, then yeah, I guess I can see how you just wouldn't get it.
STOP TALKING ABOUT OIL AS IT RELATES TO WIND POWER!! You are listening to our idiotic governor too much. A guy who has accomplished little to nothing for seven years. Destroying our mountains does not equal a decrease in our dependence on foreign oil. That's just marketing and totally false.
Carthage residents *can* stop this process if they want to. The state regulations are bogus. This is a scam and our way of life is going to change. Everyone who recreates and hunts in that area will see a change. Everyone who simply admires unspoiled mountains will see a change. Regardless of whether or not there is wiggle room with the ridge, the people of Carthage need to take a stand on that mountain top. These are enormous turbines we're talking about which will be seen for miles and they are going to blast that mountain! It's time to take it back and kick the bums from away (who are spending our money) out of town. Carthage does not want to be the only town in an entire region who did not have the foresight to preserve their land and the peace and quiet that comes with it. If this project is allowed to continue, we may as well all pack it up and move to the city.
Very little comes out of the general fund. The point is that they are funded primarily by consumptive users. They're not funded by the way DHS is, for example. Let's just forget about wildlife or any interest in science and fire 'em all. Does that make you feel better? You seem to have very little use for state agencies. They are not all created equal. Let it go.
You can't lump together all state workers and say they are worthless. My husband works for the state and donates at least 20 hours (usually more) every week to you morons. He has a long commute (because we can't afford the houses closer to his office) and an incredible work ethic. He's been furloughed (even though he still works well over 40 hours on those weeks), his salary (which doesn't even come close to compensating him for the work he does) has been capped, and his/our insurance cost is about to go up.
Our tomatoes are very healthy. Many are still green, of course, given the weather this summer, but we've got more than we can eat. We got our seeds in New Gloucester and we did buy a few starts from Agway, I think. Buying anything living from Wal-Mart is always a crap shoot.
It's not about bigotry. Chief Brown did not state that he has had complaints about drunks leaving the new pasta place. If I heard that from the town, then I would be concerned about that place, too. You're right. There are plenty of people getting drunk at home or at other places, but in the case of this bar, the selectmen and police KNOW it is a source of drunk drivers. They can't always know where the parties are, so they can only do what they can. And in this case, they chose not to. Score one for your side. You have nothing to complain about.
Ms Cerqueira, I don't know you personally but I am so sorry for your loss. This issue must have stirred a lot of sorrow for you. I was not at the meeting, but not sure it would have made a difference. For whatever reason, this guy's getting a pass from the town.
This is a mistake. It seems the Chief and members of the Board know it is a mistake but were not brave enough to shut this down. We need business in Wilton, but ones which are run responsibly. A van? So they can continue to serve alcohol and make money off these drunks? There's nothing positive about this situation. Get 'em drunk and then drive them home where they can beat their wives or whatever. Crazy stuff. Makes me wonder about who is running Wilton.
Recent Comments
Really?
How about instead of a general bounty, you hire a few experienced, trustworthy hunters around the state who can target true problem coyote populations as issues arise?
And how about all the pregnant deer that have been killed by humans (in their vehicles) this week alone?
And how about the fact that we killed off all the natural predators of coyotes a long time ago?
And when are we going to admit to all the poaching in this state and start turning people in instead of turning a blind eye?
How about all of the cover that has been lost in the northern part of the state due to poor forestry practice?
There is more to this and you are over-simplifying.
For what it's worth
and I know it's not much to you, but I do complain about all the cell towers popping up all over the place. Up until a few months ago, we had no cell coverage at our house. I didn't care one bit. Now one has gone up on a hill in town or over the line (not sure exactly what hill it's on) and it sticks out like a sore thumb. I now have cell coverage at the house, but still don't use it and happily would have gone on that way.
I don't know what you call it
Calling it a bargaining tool is being generous. Regardless, it's gross. How the staff of Patriot Renwables could sit through 3.5 hours of testimony in Dixfield regarding the Saddleback Ridge project in Carthage and still sleep at night is something I'll never understand. We're not rolling over, PR. What about the people who have to live with these useless wind turbines?
Would these three teachers take money that was the direct result of a threat (of not making the gift) to stop a group from exercising their legal rights? I'm sure they must have higher moral standards than that.
Siting massive wind projects on the tops of mountains will never be good for Maine. And companies like Patriot Renewables have driven a wedge between neighbors in town after town in this state. Such a shame.
Thank you, DEP
Much remains to be seen. We all understand that the employees of the DEP are working within laws that they did not make. I do not envy their positions. There is so much at stake with this permit application. As one speaker last Thursday night asked, "Will this project be rubber stamped or will you (DEP) be profiles in courage?" This can be a turning point in Maine history. We need a moratorium on all wind projects. The tides are turning. Maine people are waking up. Let's review that *rushed* law in detail and think long and hard about the impact on Maine's people, environment, wildlife, and economy. Perhaps there is a place for large-scale wind projects somewhere but on a mountaintop? Siting is key. The siting in Maine--mountains, lakeside, near homes--is wrong.
Nice
87 year old man with a love for his home in Maine gets up to testify and you say something foolish like that. If you please, sir, do tell us about how after thousands upon thousands of wind turbines already running in the US, we have reduced our dependency on foreign oil? If you have the figures, I know we'd all love to see them.
Too tired to comment
It was such a late night, with so many fine citizens pleading for the DEP to save rural Maine mountain ridgelines that I am too tired to comment in any detail. Public opinion is shifting. Countless towns from western Maine to eastern Maine are enacting ordinances to protect their citizens and their beloved landscape. The clock is ticking. What will become of Saddleback Ridge and the people who call Carthage, Wilton, Weld, etc. home or home away from home?
Looking forward to the DEP Hearing
Thursday night at 6:00 PM in Dixfield so that we can address Mr. Carroll's claims.
Residents from *any* town
can make comments or ask questions--not just the three listed by the reporter. Residents of Weld and Wilton will also be impacted by this project, along with anyone who cares about the environment and has an interest in this area.
Couldn't agree more
Wind projects on mountain ridges is not environmentally friendly. This is not GREEN. It's about quick cash. Wake up, people.
That's odd
I thought it was coyotes that were killing all the deer.
good opportunity
to get an education on what's coming. One dozen 450 foot wind turbines in a very rural, but settled town--visible from Carthage (obviously), Wilton, Jay, Dixfield, Weld/Mt. Blue St Park, etc. For or against, this is a solid opportunity to understand what is proposed and close to approval in Carthage, as well as, proposed in many neighboring towns.
What will the cumulative impact be? No one knows and state employees are not allowed to discuss. Why is that?
Just curious
there have been quite a few so-called "restrictive" ordinances passed in various towns around Maine. Have any of them been challeged legally and had to be defended in court?
Again
you are uneducated on this subject matter, sir. Read the DEP permit apps for these projects. If you do not like western Maine or care about the scenic quality here or about mountains in general, then I guess we have nothing to talk about. But don't pretend you really know what you are talking about.
What?
Do your homework. Some had just built their dream homes and returned to the area before the turbines went up. You are completely wrong.
I'm sure
those folks at Mars Hill would be happy to sell you their beautiful homes for a decent price. The ones near these River Valley projects will be a bargain, too.
If you've found a way
to re-grow rock, I'd love to hear about it. I asked Andy Novey once and he didn't know either. Some vegetation is allowed to re-grow, yes. That which is not kept at bay with herbicides regularly anyway. But you can't put a mountain back together again once it has been blasted.
$$$
Everything can be bought, including all of the mountain ridges in Maine. Sad to see them go.
There are only 6 potential affected landowners?
Really? Within a mile of those mountains? That doesn't sound right to me. There are people in Wilton who would probably be affected. Jo Josephson, industrial wind is not green. It is an industrial development on mountain ridges and mountaintops that are ruining the beauty in Maine. But I am not surprised you are pushing it. It's kind of your MO. You clearly listened to something Obama or Gore said and think you know. Take some time to educate yourself.
Location, location, location. The siting of turbines on mountaintops is poor siting with far-reaching consequences.
I'm saying that
the entire state of Maine does not need to be industrialized. People (neither tourists nor year-rounders) don't come to Lewiston/Auburn to get away from it all. They head for the hills and the lakes.
The jobs are not local jobs and they are temporary. If there is one perm job left, it is unlikely to be filled by someone local.
If we wanted
to live in an industrialized area, in a pit say like Auburn or Lewiston, we would. Temple is in a highly scenic, rural area and wind power doesn't bring jobs.
Don't do it
Temple, walk away. It's a quagmire. You have a lot of residences both in your own town and in neighboring towns like Wilton within hearing distance of where those turbines would likely be erected and you will make everyone miserable and angry.
Please be a good neighbor and craft a solid ordinance.
Huh?
I'm not clear on how the wind turbines, which provide (a tiny bit) of electricity, will replace your heating oil or put gas in your car?? This will drive down our heating oil prices how?
Peeing down both legs
The environmentalists, the innkeepers, the tourism people--you are all contradicting yourselves. You are the very ones who support the industrial wind movement which will dramatically alter inland Maine. You will not be able to throw a rock without hitting a 40 story tall wind turbine but your angry about loosening these rules?
You can't have it both ways, folks. I'm angry about LePage's proposed changes, too. But I would also like to ask (scream from the mountaintops, actually): WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS?! Baldacci did just as much damage with the expedited wind law. I'll stand right next to you and fight but only if you hear those of us in quiet, beautiful, traditional, popular recreational areas all over western, northern, and eastern Maine who have been trying to tell you the same thing about industrial wind. Until that time, you are falling on deaf ears for those of us who REALLY care about Maine's unique and rugged qualities.
Unfair. Really?
Oh, so unfair to Patriot Renewables. They are such cry-babies. Too bad!! This is a major change to a very rural, mostly undeveloped, beautiful area with virtually no precedence. If the project is so worthy, it can wait until every stone is turned over.
And yes, there is a DEP permit process that the wind companies must go through but the hands of those experts who comment on the application from various state departments are tied by the expedited wind law. The floodgates were opened with that law and very little of Maine's special places (special to many of us anyway) are protected.
Wind companies have had the red carpet rolled out for them. They can stop pretending life is unfair.
Ugh
I just couldn't kill such a beautiful animal. I try to be non-judgemental about hunting. Like others have said, to put fresh, "free range" meat on the table rather than buying it at Hannaford is one thing...but bobcats? I just can't get there.
Is this the same Angus King
who just happened to be in your offices when you were discussing the change in online commenting? He won't be happy with the online commenting in opposition to the rape of Maine's mountains regardless of whether people reveal their real names.
The problem with these projects, editorial board, is SITING. The proposed siting of projects on the tops of mountains all over the region, one ridgeline after another, is the result of a greedy governor and a visionless legislature. These structures with their red aviation lights are over 400 feet tall, dominate the landscape, and are built too close to homes that no one will want to buy from current owners. Period. Thank GOD for red tape. Unfortunately, red tape is all that's left after that thoughtless law was written.
I'm not clear
on why First Wind would be invited to the party. Haven't they already had their say? The vision you have for the future of your town is just that. By "picking the wrong number" (Roger Arsenault's words) I guess he means that if the set-backs or noise levels are too restrictive, First Wind would walk away. Safety of the residents who live close to these projects come first. And, really, I include their financial safety in that. We need a better understanding of how these projects affect home values as this is a serious issue for those who are not stakeholders but who stand to be seriously impacted financially. Once these and other issues are determined, then you write the ordinance. To ask First Wind to make sure the ordinance is right for them *before* figuring out if it's right for residents...why bother with an ordinance at all? It's up to First Wind to then work within the restrictions of the ordinance if possible. If it's not possible, then you recognize that the proposed project is not a good site for a large-scale wind farm. Can't have it both ways.
Counting our money, are we?
Wow, I can almost see the trickle of saliva at the corner of their mouths. Destroying Maine's natural beauty, one ridgeline at a time.
Great idea, Peru
A couple of other towns in your area like Buckfield and Wilton already have wind ordinances that you could also look at, as well. With all of the industrial wind activity in the River Valley and in western Maine in general, it would be prudent to have something on the books. Otherwise, you do what the DEP tells you to do.
Or maybe
Angus King has a vested interest in comments made here about his Independence Wind projects in western Maine. That's OK, but let's not pretend that the guy has a deep concern for what the Sun Journal does for any other reason.
Yup
I'm with you. Screw the mountains! They can only be improved by towering metal objects.
Good perspective
on just how gigantic these turbines are. I don't think most people have a sense of what is happening on our mountains.
Here
My son's elementary school still celebrates Christmas. There was a giving tree in the lobby for a month *covered* in tags from families in need of warm clothing for their children. Generous people in the community (and it is a poor community overall) emptied that tree as we do every year. Tomorrow is the last day before vacation and there will be a classroom party with drinks and treats. On some levels, these rural schools are a sad place because so many kids come from struggling families without a lot of resources. Who knows what they go home to each day or what their Christmas will be like. It's 30 minutes of laughter and getting sugared up with fellow students who generally work hard all year. And anyone with a young child knows: the kids are focused on school work the last couple of days before Christmas vacation. That said, there is not an *emphasis* on Christmas during school time. They have done a couple of art projects that are Christmas-oriented. Had the teacher decided to do a Hannukah-related project or game as we did when I was a school kid, that would have been good, too. I would not have been outraged if the holidays had come and gone at school without celebration. But as long as all parents are on board and no one feels slighted, it seems to be a happy time for the kids.
Totally agree
Our child actually does have allergies and asthma and I have to just hope (based on a bit of training they've had) that the teachers and school secretary can tell what is an emergency and what is a simple virus. Our school nurse splits her time between more than two schools and is almost never there. It is rare that I venture further than the next town, in part, because of this. Like you said, it is a budget issue and not the fault of staff.
I hope your daughter is feeling better.
YES
Each time I see a letter in here about the deer herd and coyotes, I wonder if everyone understands just how much human poaching there is in this state. It's a huge problem.
My town
has a reasonable, consicise small and large scale wind ordinance. Four pages. Passed at town meeting. Better protection than the DEP offers but does not give the appearance of banning wind. That said, I do strongly feel that industrial wind should be properly sited. I do not feel that the expedited wind law is fair or maybe even legal. I do not feel that mountains are appropriate sites for such large projects both for environmental and economical reasons. Particularly, when we see the cumulative impact of having so many ridgelines taken over in this one area. I think there will be a backlash once we reach critical mass. I've spent way more time researching this than I care to and after over a year of doing so, I haven't changed my mind. Probably won't, either.
And, no, I pick my battles. The CMP meter thing doesn't concern me. What does concern me are the transmission upgrades that were approved under the guise of "aging lines" when it was, in fact, all about wind power.
Funny
how the pro-wind folks always go off-topic and for the personal attacks when they don't have a leg to stand on.
"Crazy Lady"
is not name-calling? Sounds like you can stoop low, but the rest of us are held to a higher standard.
Name calling
Above, I see a comment from Special Interest which says, "The crazy lady Karen Pease from Lincoln Township brought her circus to Muskie auditorium." I did not see the removed comment. I'm all for the policy of prohibiting name-calling and personal attack, but wonder how Special Interest's comment escaped your policy. Perhaps my definition differs from yours.
It's the liberals
who created the expedited wind law which is helping to destroy all we hold dear in western Maine. Quicknote, you need to take a quick look at all of the ridgelines under assault by the wind industry in this area. 400 foot turbines take a lot of clear cutting and blasting and herbicide. The liberals (which I had always counted myself one of) aren't gonna help.
You're both right
I drive about the speed limit (at least the speed limit or slightly over). But I get tailed constantly on rural roads and along routes 2 and 4 by a variety of drivers--many teenager just getting out of school, grown women on cell phones, guys in huge pick-up trucks--from in and out-of-state. Stupidity doesn't seem to start at the border or pick and choose age or gender.
But I think this letter writer has every right to ask folks to slow down on her road. When we lived on a busier road with a small child, I stopped people all the time and lectured them for going 45 in a 25. For all the good it did. I wish you luck. It's really hard to get people to think of anyone but themselves. If they hit a walker, it will change their lives and they will regret being in such a hurry. Until then, it's a crapshoot. The police can't be everywhere.
You sure ass-ume a lot
Don't you? I'm a liberal Dem, I'm uneducated. Wrong and wrong. You're boring me. Can't you do better than that?
Good luck getting a full-time, permanent job from a wind compay, by the way. They LOVE people like you. You actually take them at their word even with all the evidence to the contrary. Hey, I've got a bridge to sell you...and some First Wind stock.
Wow
Have you been drinking Candiceanne's Kool Aid? She got it right from the wind industry.
and online!
:) Mainers and the rest of the world (our tourists) need to see what we stand to lose!
Hundreds? Really
Hmmmm. Robert Rand isn't "with" Karen Pease and he is the same engineer who presented to the residents of Phillips. I guess you're not gonna give ten cheers to Phillips anymore...
My second paragraph states how Phillips conducted themselves (not sure what can be disagreed with), how they worked to protect their town (again, it's all there in the ordinance), and how wind companies change the scale of their projects after they get a foot in the door. This is well established. They've done it in every town. Look it up.
There has been an acoustical
There has been an acoustical engineer who has studied Mars Hill and Freedom extensively who was at the last one or two forums held for the River Valley. You just didn't like what he said because just like in Phillips, the resulting ordinance would likely keep big wind out of Rumford.
Phillips did do a great job. They enacted a moratorium during the study and ordinance-writing phase, studied the subject in a very open way (multiple forums that anyone from the public could attend regardless of which town you live in), presented the ordinance for review, and then voted on it. They now have an ordinance which will protect their citizens. If you are a wind company, however, you're probably not going to find it inviting. MAYBE if the technology improves and the turbines are quieter, towns like Phillips will have more interest. But right now, it's buyer beware. They come in talking about one sized turbine and by the time they're done, the turbines could be quite a bit taller and noisier. It's about getting their foot in the door. Aside from the noise, there are the obvious asthetic issues and I don't blame a bucolic town like Phillips for wanting to protect their viewshed.
READ
We don't OWN land in Carthage. I said we were looking to BUY land in Carthage before this mess started. We are no longer interested in purchasing property in that town because the land no longer holds value for us. Go back and read what I said.
It would be DUMB to buy property in south Carthage now.
I should add
for what it's worth and to be clear...that we were looking at land in south Carthage until we learned of this project. We could not buy as much as the Berry's have, of course, but it would have been something. We are a survey of one, but I can tell you that we are one family for whom the land in Carthage is now devalued due to this wind project. We don't want to pay property taxes there (and as non-residents we would have no input) and we don't want to be in close proximity to the turbines.
To be really honest, Pepper
I'm not jealous of the Berrys. I'm not anti-logging ("some of my best friends are loggers") but I am for responsible logging and management. I do not live in Carthage, but I live closeby. I did live there at one time. Carthage has been the butt of jokes for many years around here, but I always defended that town. Some of my happiest memories are right there. It is a beautiful place. I've canoed the Webb River, I've hiked/snowshoed all around. I've appreciated the wildlife. I've enjoyed extremely quiet, cold, snowy nights.
I am not making fun of the Berry's for wanting to make money off their land. While I am opposed to this project, I understand they have a legal right to sell/lease their land. I guess you COULD say I'm jealous of anyone who owns acreage in Carthage. If I had the money to own and maintain land there with good stewardship, then I would have loved that. But not anymore. Not with this development coming. I wish more folks in Carthage could see their incredible land as a potential for conservation that could bring real pride to the town. I would happily pay a fee to recreate on it, though I could not afford to buy it. I understand there are taxes to be paid and that folks need the money. But I would have to be destitute to sell land like that to a wind company and even then, not sure I could do it...
I hope that when all these projects go up, those in favor are satisfied with the deals they've made. But you can't take it with you.
~Lisa
Be careful what you wish for
Perhaps with any luck, you will be close to an industrial wind installation someday. If you live near a ridgeline that's going in the right direction, there's a good chance of it. It's not just the wind turbines, it's what is done to these mountains in order to erect the turbines. We're talking about a fundamental change to what we know and love about western Maine. As many others seem to do, you are thinking about this (I assume) as ONE project rather than dozens of projects all located fairly close to each other in one region. Can you not imagine the cumulative effect when one ridgeline after another has been altered with 40 story tall buildings?
Seriously, as opposed as I am to wrecking this part of our state, if I really thought that these projects would stop the next oil spill, reduce my reduction of oil usage, send the troops home...I really think I could come around IF they did not hurt people or wildlife. But no one who is pro-wind has been able to show me the data of how exactly this is happening. There are areas out west and in the mid-west just littered with these things and they did not stop the last oil spill. And these mountains will NEVER recover from being blasted, either.
Also, there are quite a few families (I've lost track--over a dozen anyway) in Mars Hill who live within an unsafe range embroiled in a lawsuit over the damage to their lives. Personally, the last thing I want in my life is a legal battle. I just want peace and quiet. I really, really doubt that folks living in a rural area like that were just WAITING for an opportunity to sue someone. It's not they bought a house next to a railway or a airport and THEN started complaining. What kind of a person would just disregard his fellow Mainers like that?
A poster said yesterday that the turbines are SHUT DOWN in winter on Mars Hill for safety reasons. I have not verified that, but it would be worth checking into.
Laughable
The Berry clan has never done anything positive for the environment. One only has to climb a hill/mountain and look down at their handiwork to see that. This is about the money. Silly to pretend otherwise this late in the game.
Same old
“We are trying to give people the answers they are looking for,” said Tom Carroll, project coordinator for both the Carthage and Dixfield turbine proposals.
Which is distinctly different from the truth.
Wow, sounds like Armageddon
But I didn't ask you any questions. Take care of that cough.
Mitchell a Hypocrite!
Mitchell said: "Although other state's pursuit of offshore wind has become controversial, Mitchell said a wind project in the Gulf of Maine would likely cause less opposition because it wouldn't be seen by residents."
OH REALLY?! Well, what about us poor slobs faced with hundreds upon hundreds of these HUGE, ugly things here in inland Maine? People like Mitchell are attacking OUR santuaries but apparently we don't count.
Go to hell, Libby Mitchell and any other candidate who thinks the wealthy oceanfront residents (and a whole lot of non-residents) deserve better than those of us who love our mountains, woods, lakes, and wildlife.
Benefits?
Karen, you mention that you have developments proposed for both your front and your back yard. I've got one proposed for my front yard. While a string of these 40 story tall things will be the first thing I see each morning, I haven't been able to come up with any upside for our family. I'm not a resident of that town, I'm over the line in the next town. My CMP bill won't go down, I'll still be paying for my kid's education, my roads will still have the same old potholes, and I won't be able to hike on that beautiful ridge anymore. I don't think there will be any global changes (reduction in oil, troops coming home, etc.). I was just wondering, given you have a development on either side of you, what you expect the gain to you and yours will be? Will there be (could there be) enough to offset the change?
Doesn't matter
King is an outsider. The company is very much from away. What happens in these rural communities--the anger and divisiveness, the human and wildlife impacts--is no concern of his or theirs.
We can go around and around on this, but the bottom line is that experts have been brought but those in favor of wind power did not like what the experts said. Then you say that the experts were not good enough. This on top of all the appearances by wind company executives with all of their presentations. The information is out there. The dead horse has been beaten. What's left to say, really?
Doubt it
You are making a lot of assumptions about a family and basically spreading rumors that are unfounded. If you are against this ordinance or are pro-wind, then I suggest, as I have to someone else on here, that you focus on your task at hand which would be educating yourselves and your community best you can and vote as you wish. While we in Maine have a fear of outsiders (which First Wind most definitely is), I would not worry about those from the next town (not really from away) who are trying to educate Maine citizens on the facts they have gathered re: industrial wind. Those of you who are in favor of this project can hold a forum or speak up at meetings just the same anytime you want to make the effort and go to the expense.
So what?
Wow, you're a regular Nancy Drew, but what's your point? I don't really see a conflict of interest. I don't see how they stand to gain financially by fighting industrial wind. This vote is ultimately up to the folks in Rumford, you are right. Those who are opposed to industrial wind in Rumford are generally opposed to mountaintop industrial wind developments in Maine. And while they may not be residents of a particular town, they are still residents of MAINE--they appreciate the beauty, they hunt, fish, bike, hike...not just in their own town. In addition, there are concerns of the cumulative impact that these projects could have. This isn't one project, it is one of many--one ridgeline after another. Maybe you should consider getting out of your Rumford bubble and think about what this area will look like and sound like when/if we allow these projects on every suitable ridge or mountain in western Maine. So while you're right that this particular vote is Rumford's, I don't think that means that those from neighboring towns should not have a voice.
Sorry, one more thing
I meant to mention. You state, "The company representatives wait to answer questions asked of them calmly and directly without threat, intimidation, innuendo, avasion or rhetoric." This is not my experience with Patriot Renewables who have interests in Woodstock, Dixfield, and Carthage. I have not attended a First Wind meeting and so cannot comment on their behavior. I think you gathered that I am not in favor of industrial wind. But I really did have hope that when I attended a Carthage meeting held by PR that I would get some answers. I was warned I wouldn't, but I just couldn't believe that they could be that that dismissive. Well, they were. Andy Novey ran most of the meeting and his standard replies were as follows: "It's in the computer models," "It's proprietary," and "Next question." Lots of smirking, lots of sighs, and lots of looking down at the little people. I feel like I sound like I'm exaggerating but I really am not. If the information could not be found in his PowerPoint presentation, then you were not going to get a response. It was depressing. But when the majority of folks are not doing their own research--their own follow-up to the questions they had but did not receive answers to--then you ARE left with an uneducated bunch of people going off to the voting booths. So, we felt like PR had their one-sided presentation where they did not answer most of the concerns and so why shouldn't there be a forum where folks can get the other side of the story? We can't force PR to answer questions and we can't force them to provide experts in the field at their expense. Can Rumford citizens or Carthage or Dixfield force it? I don't know. I think others have tried and failed.
There's no excuse to be ignorant
You can educate yourself anytime you want. The information is out there. One only has to take the time to study all sides of this issue and it is time-consuming. I understand your desire to have a panel of professionals that includes experts who are not from the wind companies, however, my guess is they cost money and that those trying to put on these forums don't have a budget. I believe there have been informational meetings in the River Valley that included experts from the state (names escape me, maybe someone on here can help me). Public meetings are required for all of these permit applications and at those you will find representatives from state agencies such as DEP and IFW, though I'm not sure how "free" they are to speak their minds. Regardless of what you think of Robert Rand, he is a qualified sound engineer and he has studied these sites in Maine extensively. If you don't like a side business he has or whatever, I don't see how that impacts his qualifications. I think it has more to do with your not liking the data as it does not support your own agenda.
But don't tell me that everyone in Rumford must remain ignorant due to a lack of access to information. Do your own research, print out studies from what you find, and distribute it. Document your sources and hand it in anonymously if you must. This is something you spend a lot of time thinking about, so I suggest you gather your data and see if you can find any (not created by wind companies or their investors) that supports industrial wind in Maine. There's nothing stopping you.
Wind Industry
This is not the first time that wind industry and other more pro-wind speakers have been invited. As Karen said, they won't put themselves in a situation where they will have to debate other knowledgeable people. If they are so certain of their facts, then why not show up? I think more pro-wind residents would attend the meetings if there were pro-wind panelists and then you'd really have the chance for a debate and a better representation of concerned citizens, as well.
CommonSense, if you know how to make that happen, then have at it rather than complaining about it. My guess is you fear the wind industry folks will make fools out of themselves or that you will be proven wrong. Otherwise, why haven't you worked to help in this matter?
Wow
I'm speechless about this photo. Great filing system and it does say a lot about the way Carthage is run. Knowing the guys from Patriot Renewables, I can picture them high fiving each other out in the parking lot after their first meeting there.
That's exactly why
the State has encouraged comprehensive plans and programs like Beginning with Habitat. It's OK to have a plan for our communities--a vision for how we want them to look and feel 10 years, 20 years, 50 years down the road. That is all this is--an opportunity. And this is the only chance to take control as a wind company that has lied repeatedly in other communities is breathing down your necks. They treat small communities in Maine like third world countries. As it turns out, we're smarter and more resourceful than they gave us credit for, with a love of our land and a desire for fairness.
Watch out
with Alison Hagerstrom onboard, she'll recommend we put floating industrial wind turbines out on the lake to draw visitors and "create jobs."
Spot On!
There is a logging operation near our home. The grating sound of it bounces off our house from 8:00 to 4:00 each day. I hate it even though I know I live in Maine and need to accept that logging hapens. You know why I can tolerate it? Because they're done at the end of the day and they don't work on the weekends. I know there is an end in sight. With these industrial turbines, there is no escape and no control.
So what?
So what if it bans wind. This speaks directly to the fact that industrial wind needs to be sited responsibly. The science is there about how far the sound travels. Even a mile is probably not enough given the data from sound engineers. If First Wind can't work within those safety guidelines, then they will have to find sites that are not so close to dwellings.
shame
The property tax payers in Wilton (and the non-home owners of Wilton) are extremely fortunate to have a beautiful park like Kineowatha, along with a great rec program. The punks in and around town have never and will never work a day in their lives. The police are being randomized with this stupid behavior.
To some
protecting a wild mountain like Saddleback is worth it.
Great news
Steve Brown says, “We want this project to happen in the best interest of the town, to see what kind of an agreement we could get from Patriot. It would expand our tax base, we'd receive royalties, and there would be a chance to keep a substantial amount of land open." Really? Well, if the work of FMM goes through, they'd probably keep it ALL open. It would be preserved and there would be NO blasting, no earth and rock removal, no habitat loss, no flashing lights or noise, and no useless, subsidy-driven 40 story tall wind turbines.
Have not had time?
Really? Seems the town has had nearly a decade (the town voted to put that land into conservation but never did the due diligence and now come to find out the town has no idea who owns it) to figure this one out. This work should have been done a long time ago. Saddleback Mountain, the land in question, is a unique and beautiful place that can be seen from miles around. Now the small, greedy majority (though a shrinking one), without care for those who will be most effected, are wringing their hands over this heir, anxious to see clear cutting and blasting started for 40 story tall industrial turbines. Carthage is now a town fiercely divided. I can only imagine the laughter in the wind company board rooms as they count their dollars in subsidies, knowing they've duped another poor town without a comprehensive plan.
Amazing
It's amazing how much of what we've been told by the governor and by the wind industry is totally false. And that we are made to feel unpatriotic (??) if we do not support industrial wind on our mountains. Thank you for your well-written letter, Mr. Kalloch. Your letter is a breath of fresh air. A picture is worth a thousand words. I encourage folks to check out http://www.windtaskforce.org/ for up-to-date photos of mountaintop wind projects in Maine, as well as, for some hard facts about what can only be described as a scam.
Webb Lake
Sturges Butler has been doing this at the Kawanhee on Webb Lake for a very long time, as well.
Money
I don't have enough scientific knowledge to debate whether or not pot is bad for you. But I do know that it is illegal to distribute the stuff and not pay a DIME in taxes. So that's one reason why you get busted. Until it is legal (and I guess it probably will be eventually), you're making money and not paying taxes like the rest of us do when we make money legally.
Also, there seems to be this kind of "inner-city" (if you will) thing going on in Wilton. It's turning into the new armpit of Maine. There are quite a lot of deadbeats roaming around--domestic abusers, druggies, punks, alcoholics--and those are just the parents. There's a nice crop of kids they're bringing up to be just like them. It's my observation, and I'm willing to hear I'm off base, that folks like the ones busted here, selling an illegal drug out of their home, with children there, probably contributes to the overall decline of a town. Another sign of desperate times and losers beget losers. The more deadbeats who learn that Wilton is friendly to their kind, the more will move here. And then we won't just be dealing with pot.
Sorry
I have no idea why that posted three times!! Feel free to remove two. :)
Cumulative Effect
Queen, I'm sure your heart is in the right place. Many in this fight felt the same way you did. But it's not just one wind project. It's not just Woodstock or just Carthage. Wind companies want to take vast swaths of undeveloped woods, streams, habitat, mountaintops and put huge turbines on the highest points. That's fragmentation and a total lack of respect for nature and the citizens who reside nearby. And they want to do this not on just one peak, but many. No one really knows what the cumulative effect would be to people and wildlife and tourism and ecosystem. The wind companies don't know (and I assure you they do not care about anything but the money) and the DEP doesn't know. And if they do know, they won't tell you. Try asking them a direct question at a meeting and see if you can get an answer that's not on their stale PowerPoint presentation. On top of which, your desire to be green is not going to be fulfilled with these projects. They're not going to stop the next oil spill. I wish it were true.
Drive 'em off the land.
Cumulative Effect
Queen, I'm sure your heart is in the right place. Many in this fight felt the same way you did. But it's not just one wind project. It's not just Woodstock or just Carthage. Wind companies want to take vast swaths of undeveloped woods, streams, habitat, mountaintops and put huge turbines on the highest points. That's fragmentation and a total lack of respect for nature and the citizens who reside nearby. And they want to do this not on just one peak, but many. No one really knows what the cumulative effect would be to people and wildlife and tourism and ecosystem. The wind companies don't know (and I assure you they do not care about anything but the money) and the DEP doesn't know. And if they do know, they won't tell you. Try asking them a direct question at a meeting and see if you can get an answer that's not on their stale PowerPoint presentation. On top of which, your desire to be green is not going to be fulfilled with these projects. They're not going to stop the next oil spill. I wish it were true.
Drive 'em off the land.
Cumulative Effect
Queen, I'm sure your heart is in the right place. Many in this fight felt the same way you did. But it's not just one wind project. It's not just Woodstock or just Carthage. Wind companies want to take vast swaths of undeveloped woods, streams, habitat, mountaintops and put huge turbines on the highest points. That's fragmentation and a total lack of respect for nature and the citizens who reside nearby. And they want to do this not on just one peak, but many. No one really knows what the cumulative effect would be to people and wildlife and tourism and ecosystem. The wind companies don't know (and I assure you they do not care about anything but the money) and the DEP doesn't know. And if they do know, they won't tell you. Try asking them a direct question at a meeting and see if you can get an answer that's not on their stale PowerPoint presentation. On top of which, your desire to be green is not going to be fulfilled with these projects. They're not going to stop the next oil spill. I wish it were true.
Drive 'em off the land.
No one asked me
I don't believe a thing Angus King or anyone else from these wind companies says. Try sitting in a meeting in one of these small, unprotected towns and asking them a direct question and see if you can get an honest answer.
Exactly
how the people of Carthage have been treated by their selectmen and by Patriot Renewables. Same strategy. Same evasiveness. You cannot get a straight answer out of a wind company rep. Buyer beware.
Who are the out-of-staters?
First Wind is also from out-of-state. You don't seem to get that they are the interlopers. They don't live here, don't vacation here, and they are 100% money-motivated. They don't care what you or anyone else feels after they do their business and leave. They don't care about what's green or what isn't. And you're right. Often, you cannot hear the turbines when you are directly beneath them. The sound doesn't travel that way. It travels OUT. The noise issues are real, however. It bothers some more than others, but there's no way to know in advance who will be hurt the most. If you live in town and feel you will not be bothered by the noise, then you are simply throwing your neighbors who will be bothered under a bus.
I moved here when I was 36 for the sake of my child. Quite the opposite from you, I guess. I thought growing up in a quiet, scenic place with loads of outdoor recreational opportunities, small schools with teachers you really get to know, and good people (mostly) was a good thing. Now I find out that all anyone cares about here is whether or not they get their roads paved in a timely manner and whether or not they get their government hand-out (which is all this is, really). I assumed people who were born and raised here, along with the people who chose to live here for the quiet and beauty, would lay down their lives to protect it. Boy, was I wrong. Maybe I will follow your lead, candiceanne, and leave for the sake of my child. I am sure as heck not going to take money from a wind company while I watch them rape the mountains I love.
Come on!
"Selectmen then discussed among themselves where they are at in the ordinance development process. After which, Kiely asked that First Wind be allowed to help in the process by providing information and feedback."
I don't know whether to laugh or to cry.
Sorry to hear that, Carthage
The 48 who voted down the moratorium have spoken. You apparently won't know what you've got 'til it's gone. Start saying your prayers that Patriot Renewables who own a total of THREE turbines (which they didn't even build) knows what they are doing. Any company with this much of an impact on a town that will not look you in the eye and give you a straight answer when asked a direct question is out for themselves, not for you. Greed and stupidity ruled once again.
A year from now, if they start this project, those who tried to slow it down and get some answers will say, "We told you so."
Vote for a Moratorium
If the folks at Patriot Renewables can't give you the answers to the questions you've asked repeatedly within the last year, perhaps they will take you more seriously once you've voted for a moratorium. If this is such a wonderful, beneficial project with sound financial backing (that is undisclosed), then six months won't be a problem.
Your neighbors in Wilton just passed a wind ordinance covering both small and industrial sized projects. Towns like Dixfield, Weld, Rumford, Phillips, and Buckfield are working on theirs. Many other towns have ordinances in place. Why not Carthage?
Gah!
100 people working? But most or not any from Franklin County! Andy Novey, et al were unable to answer any question during the Q&A with any detail. Either it was "We have computer models" or "We can't tell you that, it's proprietary" or "Next question"...the people of Carthage and YES, their neighbors in other towns who will be impacted (yet not receive a dime of compensation) have the right to detailed answers, too. This is a major, industrial project. Vote for a moratorium and allow yourselves the time to squeeze the answers out of Patriot Renewables. If it's such a great and well-funded project, then what difference will six months make?
Got to Try
The selectmen may become very unpopular if this industrial complex is constructed and if folks aren't given a REAL and educated opportunity to vote on the matter. I understand how you feel, northwoods. But let's give it a try, anyway. Carthage residents need to seize this chance. There is growing concern now that the idea of the project has had a chance to sink in.
Thank you, Carthage
Your neighbors thank you for considering slowing down this project. We may not live in Carthage, but we love the beauty of your town. We like to admire it's pristing mountains and we like to hunt, hike, bike, etc. there. And many of our friends live in Carthage so we care about how you will be affected by a project with 19 40 story structures towering over your landscape and potentially causing noise problems. Clearly, you have stopped and asked yourselves, "Is this the legacy we want for our town, for our kids?"
I hope many will make this meeting Thursday night so that you may ask Patriot Renewables--a company that has only installed THREE turbines in their careers--the hard questions, ask them to put what they promise in writing, and consider a moratorium to allow yourselves more time to try to answer those nagging doubts about what the future would hold with this project.
Huge fan
of this idea. I hope it sticks. Cocoa Puffs cereal with chocolate milk, sausage breakfast pizza, chicken fingers, fruit in syrup....these kids eat nothing but beige food all day. We can do better.
No reduction in oil use
Sorry, to be or not, you can cover Maine in wind turbines and it will not change the amount of oil we use. That's a fact.
Huh?
What exactly do you think oil has to do with this? Have you been drinking the Angus King Kool-Aid? Do you believe that wind turbines will stop our consumption of oil in any way? If so, please tell us how that will work exactly.
Oh please
There are a ton of drug busts in Farmington, too. You wake up. They should put it in Lewiston.
Not to mention
that they pulled the rug out from everyone in Massachusetts who thought Cape Wind was a good idea. Just a week after gaining approval of the project, they announce that the cost to build it would be as much as THREE times the original estimate. Plus MA residents' electric bills will go up and up. This is what happens when you aren't paying attention, folks. I know that those in Rumford will not be fooled.
No one taking this lightly
I don't think anyone who wants to preserve Maine's mountains takes the oil spill lightly. Everyone is saddened by that disaster and the lack of accountability there. However, destroy Maine's scenic beauty or not, the drilling isn't going to stop and oil isn't powering your refrigerator or your hair dryer or your lights anyway. And you want to talk boondoggles? How about Cape Wind (First Wind)? MA residents are going to be paying through the nose for their electricity and within a week of approval, it was announced that the project would cost up to three times the original estimate. Sounds like another Big Dig fleece job to me.
Those who choose to live or vacation in areas of this state that are pristine understand what will be lost. They know the irreprable harm that will come from industrializing these special and fragile areas of the state. And they know that Big Wind is not worth the sacrifice. Once the blasting starts, once the trees are cleared and the roads are built and the power lines are strewn, they won't stop. There won't be any second chance to get this right.
Doug Rooks was right last weekend when he lamented that these projects are not flying under the radar. Local citizens are enacting moratoriums and creating ordinances to protect themselves and their towns. We are not rolling over for companies like First Wind and Patriot Renewables and we are not apologizing.
Why?
Yes, Mr. Powell, I wish someone could answer that for us. Not a peep from Baldacci or anyone else who is supposed to represent us. Those who don't live at the coast have been forgotten. As Mr. Rooks laments in Sunday's paper, these were seemingly flying under the radar and they hoped it would always be that way. But the smart folks of inland Maine are educating themselves and we are not buying it.
Protecting our towns because the state won't do it for us
It's mother's day and I don't have a lot of time to pick apart this disgusting column. However, there is one statement that sums up what has happened here:
"After proceeding almost below the radar during the first half-dozen large projects, wind power is controversial in many Maine communities. Some towns have adopted moratoriums while others have enacted ordinances that arbitrarily bar wind towers within a mile of any residence."
The author is lamenting the days when these industrial projects slipped through unnoticed. The days of back-door deals with selectmen and land owners are OVER. We are adopting moratoriums and ordinances because the State of Maine and the wind thieves left us with no choice. Get used to it, Rooks. And if wind is such the boon that you say it is, if it is worth the sacrifice of Maine's unique and highly valued landscape, then you have nothing to worry about. Right?
I just hope what the Boston Herald said yesterday about Cape Wind costing as much as three times the original estimate isn't true. It just couldn't be. Could it?
Most people get it
I think most people in town understand that this increase was held off for as long as possible. Also, I think Wilton people have a certain amount of trust in the town government. They wouldn't consider this if it were not necessary. Plus we have the opportunity for an up or down vote in June.
Mills
Mills flip-flopped on this issue seemingly overnight. One minute she indicated real concern for those in Mars Hill suffering from the affects of wind-related noise. Then suddenly she was essentially calling them liars or crazy, stating that it was impossible for wind turbines to cause sleep deprivation or daytime disturbances. State employees have been mandated by the so-called emergency wind power legislation to encourage and make easy the siting of industrial-scale wind projects anywhere with a ridgeline. Mills is just another one of Baldacci's sheeples. We need a governor who appreciates the uniqueness and beauty of inland Maine and who recognizes that this legislation was a scam.
Nice catch
I didn't notice that in the photo at first. Shouldn't be surprised, I guess. That flag has come to be synonymous with ignorance.
I'm going to march, too
I think I'll march (clothed) at the same time and my sign will say, "If you're going to march without a shirt on, please start using a gym." Ugh. That goes for the men, too. Please, just step away from the drive-thru and march yourselves right over to the UMF gym before showing us what you've got.
And at risk of being a broken record, it is normal and biologically correct for men to want to look at breasts. They are sexual--some of the time--and that's OK. They are not just for breastfeeding (which I have done and fully support anywhere, anytime).
Ultimately, I don't really care. I have nothing against women going topless, particularly at beaches, for example, but their reasoning behind the march is faulty.
what's it mean for jobs
uh, copyeditor, anyone?
Ummmm
I guess I'm a left wing wacko. Try to understand that this issue does not fall neatly to the left or right. It's about the fleecing of everyone. I thought I was pro-wind until I did my homework. These companies can only do this thanks to subsidies. I get that but I wish more people like you did. I would like to hear where you got the idea that wind energy reduces our dependence on foreign oil, though. Did you get that from Baldacci? King? Someone else who has based their livelihood or future livelihood on the proliferation of wind turbines in Maine?
There is more value to these mountains
than the (inconsistent) wind that blows over them. Mr McKay and Mr. Tibbetts are correct. This project will affect you one way or another. Anyone--Dixfield residents, as well as, folks who just enjoy western Maine mountains for their recreational opportunities and scenic beauty. This isn't just about my backyard or your backyard. This is about one mountain ridge and mountaintop after another in every direction in western Maine. Once these 40 story tall industrial machines go up, they aren't coming down no matter what the fallout is. For those who believe that the guys from Patriot Renewables are riding in on their white horses to save us from foreign oil, think again. Folks need to show up to these meetings so they can educate themselves and to have a voice in the future of this state.
There's no such thing as a free lunch
Everything comes at a price and neither Woodstock nor Waterford would be getting their electricity for free. What little (unreliable) power that would be generated from these noisy, 40 story tall towers goes out of state. The point is that the wind companies look for towns without ordinances and comprehensive plans FOR GOOD REASON. For one, they do not have to compensate those who live near the turbines for the negative impacts as there is nothing in the town law about mitigation waivers. And when there are problems, there is no recourse. Having trouble with that turbine 600 feet from your house? Can't sleep at night? Too bad. You voted down a moratorium. The only hope now is to create an ordinance and quick. Kudos to those in Woodstock who had the foresight to vote yes. Buyer beware to the others.
And...
...why weren't the school aged children in school rather than being babysat while the mother was "out of town" (out of town like in Jay or out of town like in another state ?). Kudos to the 12 year-old for getting help right away. Way too much responsibility on her young shoulders.
Just please tell me, Angus,
where in Maine I can go where I will not be face to face with these 40 story buildings so I can move. Screw tourism and screw quality of place. Stop the low flying military flights because they are too loud and ruin the beauty of Maine. But blast all of our mountains, clear trees for new roads, and drive us out of the place we once loved so that some (little) extremely expensive and unreliable electricity can be sent out of state. We were living our dream. Now we are scrambling to find a new place to live.
Poachers
are a major threat to the deer herd, but we won't be snaring them, either.
Important meetings tonight
in Woodstock. At 5:00, a public hearing re: the moratorium and at 6:00, a hearing with the DEP & Patriot Renewables. Residents need to get involved and there is very little time. The wind companies target towns without zoning and/or without ordinances. Woodstock, don't let PR and the DEP make this decision for you. Come up with your own rules so you can protect your land and citizens. Consider mitigation waivers so the control is in your hands. Many towns have gone before you. This can be done. Good luck.
Too Bad
I'm sorry to hear this, Weld. You are a *prime* target for wind vultures. I hope you will take your idea of forming a committee seriously and get to work on a wind ordinance before it is too late. Weld is so unique and so special.
Thanks, Paula. You speak for
Thanks, Paula. You speak for many of us who value wilderness. Many people don't seem to understand that we're not talking small-scale, residential cutesy windmills or even one or two industrial-scale wind projects. We're talking one ridge/mountain after another until you won't be able to look out from a viewpoint without seeing multiple large-scale projects. If these plans continue, Maine's landscape will be scarred forever. I have no question in my mind that this plan is the number one biggest mistake ever made in Maine and if we let it happen, people who live here and vacation here will wake-up and realize what was lost.
If you are a city person or if you stay inside most of the time and you do not consider the woods of Maine to be special, then yeah, I guess I can see how you just wouldn't get it.
STOP TALKING ABOUT OIL AS IT
STOP TALKING ABOUT OIL AS IT RELATES TO WIND POWER!! You are listening to our idiotic governor too much. A guy who has accomplished little to nothing for seven years. Destroying our mountains does not equal a decrease in our dependence on foreign oil. That's just marketing and totally false.
Carthage residents *can* stop
Carthage residents *can* stop this process if they want to. The state regulations are bogus. This is a scam and our way of life is going to change. Everyone who recreates and hunts in that area will see a change. Everyone who simply admires unspoiled mountains will see a change. Regardless of whether or not there is wiggle room with the ridge, the people of Carthage need to take a stand on that mountain top. These are enormous turbines we're talking about which will be seen for miles and they are going to blast that mountain! It's time to take it back and kick the bums from away (who are spending our money) out of town. Carthage does not want to be the only town in an entire region who did not have the foresight to preserve their land and the peace and quiet that comes with it. If this project is allowed to continue, we may as well all pack it up and move to the city.
I was going to say much of
I was going to say much of the same thing. Thanks for saving me the typing.
Very little comes out of the
Very little comes out of the general fund. The point is that they are funded primarily by consumptive users. They're not funded by the way DHS is, for example. Let's just forget about wildlife or any interest in science and fire 'em all. Does that make you feel better? You seem to have very little use for state agencies. They are not all created equal. Let it go.
You need to do some homework
You need to do some homework re: where the majority of IF&W money comes from.
Then you haven't read the
Then you haven't read the previous comments for this article, along with every other news story written about the state budget. I'm tired of it.
You can't lump together all
You can't lump together all state workers and say they are worthless. My husband works for the state and donates at least 20 hours (usually more) every week to you morons. He has a long commute (because we can't afford the houses closer to his office) and an incredible work ethic. He's been furloughed (even though he still works well over 40 hours on those weeks), his salary (which doesn't even come close to compensating him for the work he does) has been capped, and his/our insurance cost is about to go up.
Get over yourselves.
It should outrage legitimate
It should outrage legitimate hunters more than anyone else.
Our tomatoes are very
Our tomatoes are very healthy. Many are still green, of course, given the weather this summer, but we've got more than we can eat. We got our seeds in New Gloucester and we did buy a few starts from Agway, I think. Buying anything living from Wal-Mart is always a crap shoot.
It's not about bigotry.
It's not about bigotry. Chief Brown did not state that he has had complaints about drunks leaving the new pasta place. If I heard that from the town, then I would be concerned about that place, too. You're right. There are plenty of people getting drunk at home or at other places, but in the case of this bar, the selectmen and police KNOW it is a source of drunk drivers. They can't always know where the parties are, so they can only do what they can. And in this case, they chose not to. Score one for your side. You have nothing to complain about.
Ms Cerqueira, I don't know
Ms Cerqueira, I don't know you personally but I am so sorry for your loss. This issue must have stirred a lot of sorrow for you. I was not at the meeting, but not sure it would have made a difference. For whatever reason, this guy's getting a pass from the town.
This is a mistake. It seems
This is a mistake. It seems the Chief and members of the Board know it is a mistake but were not brave enough to shut this down. We need business in Wilton, but ones which are run responsibly. A van? So they can continue to serve alcohol and make money off these drunks? There's nothing positive about this situation. Get 'em drunk and then drive them home where they can beat their wives or whatever. Crazy stuff. Makes me wonder about who is running Wilton.