By Terry Karkos,Staff Writer

AUGUSTA – The Maine Ethics Commission got much more than it sought Wednesday at the second of two investigative hearings into the Clean Election campaigns of two 2004 candidates.

But, during the nearly nine-hour day, commissioners didn’t get as much as they wanted from their first witness, Daniel Rogers of Auburn, despite four hours of questioning that was interrupted only by a 30-minute lunch.

Rogers frequently evaded questions by either saying they were not relevant to his subpoena, which was finally served recently after months of attempts, or invoked the Fifth Amendment.

The campaign oversight panel conducted the fact-finding hearings – one last month and one Wednesday – to determine if taxpayer money received by the two candidates was spent for campaign-related services.

The candidates in question are Julia St. James of Hartford, who ran unsuccessfully in the Fourth Branch Party for western Maine’s District 14 Senate seat; and Sarah Trundy of Minot, who lost her bid for the House 96 seat as a Green Party candidate.

Deliberations about possible wrongdoings, and any recommendations for fines or criminal charges, are expected to occur at the commission’s next meeting in December, said commission member Michael Bigos before Trundy, the last witness, testified.

Like the bizarre testimony given at the Oct. 12 hearing, Wednesday’s hearing began strangely. Besides Rogers and Trundy, those testifying Wednesday were Lewiston City Councilor Stavros Mendros, St. James, and St. James’ campaign treasurer Jessica Larlee of Minot. All but Rogers and Mendros had also testified in the October hearing.

Rogers, a self-proclaimed political consultant who has been identified through previous testimony by St. James and others as her campaign manager, and a consultant for Trundy, sat before the board at 10:35 a.m.

Commission Executive Director Jonathan Wayne then began to question Rogers until Commissioner Andrew Ketterer interrupted, saying he would like Rogers sworn in.

Once Rogers swore to tell the truth, Wayne started to question Rogers, but was interrupted by him.

Rogers motioned that Ketterer remove himself from the hearing, saying he had violated Maine law by talking to a Sun Journal reporter about the investigation during a phone interview for a story published on Nov. 4.

Rogers said Ketterer could not be impartial.

Ultimately, Bigos motioned to table Rogers’ motion and take it under advisement. He and Chairwoman Jean Ginn Marvin then voted to do so; Ketterer said he would not vote because he was under question.

Ketterer said at the end of the hearing that he would respect Rogers’ motion and not vote on his conduct, even though Ketterer said he disagreed with Rogers’ assertion “in the strongest terms.”

Questioning started Wednesday with Wayne trying to determine where Rogers was staying while he worked on the campaigns of St. James and Trundy.

“I was staying at a bunch of places. … I was couch surfing’ for a few months,” Rogers said.

Eventually, Rogers admitted to staying at Jessica Larlee’s apartment in Minot for “quite a bit.”

Larlee and Rogers have been linked by prior testimony as campaign workers for both St. James and Trundy. Larlee initially worked as treasurer for St. James until the two had a “falling out.” She also served as Trundy’s treasurer and worked closely with Rogers.

When asked by Wayne if he left his 10 Aron Drive home in Auburn voluntarily, Rogers declined to answer, saying it wasn’t relevant to the matter for which he had been subpoenaed.

Rogers continued to cite this reason when Wayne, commission counsel Phyllis Gardiner and other commissioners repeatedly tried to get him to explain his political experience by identifying candidates for whom he had worked.

Rogers said he didn’t want every single person to be “dragged” before the commission to answer questions like what happened to his friend, Stavros Mendros.

Mendros’ name came up in October when St. James testified that Larlee and Rogers wanted her to go on a “fake date” with Mendros to gain access to a voter address list. Mendros, when questioned later Wednesday, denied providing such a list, but admitted to going on what he thought was a “blind date” with St. James.

Later, Rogers appeared to be stunned when Gardiner matter-of-factly mentioned the names Rogers had refused to provide, namely, Abe Chitman and presidential candidate Ralph Nader.

Rogers said he helped Chitman make a radio advertisement and a mailing, but did a lot more for Nader.

Rogers admitted to Wayne that he was behind the mailing of a pro-homosexual marriage mailing that was intended to smear Dorothy LaFortune’s opponent, Stephen Beaudette, in a February 2004 special election in Biddeford.

But then, Rogers invoked his Fifth Amendment rights when asked why he stated on the oversized postcard that the mailing was paid for by an organization he made up on the spot rather than state his own name.

He continued to evade several questions by either saying they were not relevant or that he did not want to incriminate himself because he wasn’t aware of what criminal implications Wayne or the commission “might be making.”

Exasperated commissioners eventually began asking questions he would and did answer at length.