AUGUSTA — State legislators struggled with what action to take to curb fraud in the citizens initiative and people’s veto signature-gathering processes during a committee work session Monday.

The Legal and Veterans Affairs Committee is weighing two similar proposals, one sponsored by state Sen. John Nutting, D-Leeds, that aim to place more accountability on the petition circulators, and empower citizens who signed a petition to later remove their names if they choose.

But some members questioned whether some aspects of the legislation, such as requiring not only the circulator of the petition but also the people who often accompany them as “pitchmen,” to register with the state.

“The citizen’s right to express themselves shouldn’t be infringed by thresholds and registration,” said state Rep. Stacey Fitts, R-Pittsfield. “Somebody that is a resident and a registered voter of Maine has to be the circulator. That’s the person who is held accountable for the signatures that are turned in. Whatever happens in the room or at the fair or at the booth beyond that is in my mind free speech.”

State Rep. Mike Carey, D-Lewiston, said the balance between preventing fraud and respecting the freedom of speech is tough to find.

“Anything that has to do with the exercise of speech needs to be done weighing why it is that it’s being done. In my mind, there is evidence of fraud out there,” he said. “The question is whether how prevalent it is suggests how light a hand any changes to the process should be.”

Nutting said his goal is to improve the integrity of the system. Current law is not sufficient, he said, pointing to recent cases of fraud revealed in Augusta, Greene and Winslow.

“More and more towns are coming forward saying, ‘yes, it happened to us, too.’ It’s more widespread than it should be,” he said. “But we only see the fraud with the paid signature gatherers, we don’t see it with the volunteer ones.”

Nutting said he’s willing to work with the committee on the details of his measure, but offered information on what other states have done.

In Oregon, for example, individuals must register with the state to gather signatures, but if they are being paid, the organization paying them is held legally accountable in the case of fraud. Those individuals who register must also submit contact information to the state and report if they have been convicted of any crimes in the last five years.

Maine law currently requires signature gatherers to be registered Maine voters and plainly display their name at the top of each petition. They also must offer the person they are asking to sign their petition a copy of the initiative they are advancing. But in recent years, Maine circulators have been accompanied by out-of-staters who act as “pitchmen” and try to attract people to sign the petition. During the past year, there were reports of so-called pitchmen telling lies to get Mainers to sign their petitions, but there is no recourse because of their right to free speech.

But Nutting said it would be a good idea for organizations from out-of-state that come to gather signatures to register with the Secretary of State’s Office, as well as pay for criminal background checks on hired signature gatherers to see if they have been convicted of fraud or forgery.

People who sign petitions need to exercise responsibility, Nutting said. The problem is, there’s nothing to say the “pitchman” is telling the truth about the contents of the petition.

“You can say whatever you want to and lie to get somebody to sign, because you earn more money the more signatures you gather; it should be an honest procedure with a lot of integrity,” he said.

State Rep. Pam Trinward, D-Waterville, the House committee chairwoman, said she’s not sure what the answer to the problem is, but it’s not the status quo.

“We know this exists and I feel a certain obligation and responsibility to try to do something to make it better,” she said. “It’s probable that since this happened in Greene it happened in other places it just didn’t get picked up. I’m just not sure exactly how we get to it.”

The committee is expected to discuss the measures further in the coming weeks.

rmetzler@sunjournal.com

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